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Tell me again why ending teacher merit pay could never work in the US

By AnsuGisalas ·
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Most U.S. School Districts

by john.a.wills In reply to Tell me again why ending ...

don't have merit pay for teachers. And the kind of cheating that occurred in Georgia could easily be avoided with a system of external invigilators and examiners.

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John, why have a system of inquisitors...

by AnsuGisalas In reply to Most U.S. School District ...

when it has been established that merit pay leads to poorer education at higher cost?
I just can't understand why the US insists on sticking to bad ideas like this. It's like they've become French!

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by CharlieSpencer In reply to John, why have a system o ...

"I just can't understand why the US insists on sticking to bad ideas like this."

John already told you that most US school districts don't use a merit pay system.

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...followed by a "but we can fix it with oversight".

by AnsuGisalas In reply to Huh?

I keep hearing of people who want to tie pay to performance.
The funniest was a proposal to tie the parent's benefits to the children's school attendance. Because that'll end well.

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He was referring to fixing the cheating.

by CharlieSpencer In reply to ...followed by a "but we ...

Cheating occurs in other school districts that don't have merit pay. Other factors drive cheating on standardized tests, including government subsidies to school districts, principals and school board members retaining their jobs, pride, etc.

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Pride is one thing...

by AnsuGisalas In reply to He was referring to fixin ...

but firing people over test results is just a negative form of merit pay.
As is basing funding on it.
Just forget about measuring performance. Train the teachers to evaluate the students and let them do that.

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by john.a.wills In reply to Pride is one thing...

The problem with the teachers evaluating the students is that the teachers may be dishonest - Original Sin rears its ugly head again. Teachers, even without merit pay or the like, have a vested interest in their pupils seeming to do well. It may be that Finnish teachers have a very high effective standard of ethics, but we cannot rely on that elsewhere. Many of the testing techniques used in the U.S. are unsuitable because of the possibility of cheating. In many countries school exit exams are graded by external examiners (as, indeed, university degree exams are in many places); in some, indeed, the exit exams are set externally. How do the Finns manage exit exams (which, I imagine, double as university entrance exams)?

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If that's the case

by NickNielsen In reply to Pride is one thing...

It's a product of the "accountability"-based system.

The best teachers want their students to actually do well. And there used to be many, many more of them until Americans started listening to the "our schools are failing, government employees are stupid/lazy/incompetent" idjits.

There used to be a thing called trust. Look it up.

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Commission, or merit pay to be PC about it

by aidemzo_adanac In reply to Tell me again why ending ...

In MANY industries, merit pay/commission simply does not belong. When I worked as a mechanic for a Ford dealership, we were union, of course, and paid an hourly rate based on experience. In my view, that is more than fair, it is regulated, consistent for all mechanics and based on experience.

I left the dealership because the owner had a crazy idea one day that he wanted to sell more parts and offered commission (paid under the table) for selling parts. The role of a mechanic, a good one anyway, is to correctly isolate and identify the true source of a problem and find the most efficient and effective repair, be it one or two parts, overhaul etc. The role of a service manager is to look up time and parts costs and quote the customer based on the mechanic's recommendations.

The role of a mechanic is NOT to sell more parts. I despise any shop that rips off its customers. I spent 6 years (including returning for specialty courses) learning a trade, at great expense and with many thousands invested in tools so I could be a fair and decent tradesman that earned an honest living. To put mechanics on commission is simply disgusting at best.

The role of a teacher may seem very different but it isn't. They invest time and money into a trade that allows them to educate young citizens that will in turn control and grow our nations. They are paid a fair, union wage, despite constant whining about hours and low pay, they knew EXACTLY what they were getting into when they started university. If they are that far out of the loop that they wouldn't know the industry they enter, they can't teach others.

Commission corrupts. It corrupts crappy salesmen, they turn to lies in order to close deals and keep their job, at their customer's expense. They then make all salesmen look like crooks.

We've all heard corny used car salesman stories, it's the greed for quick cash that gets them started, once they find it's easy to BS and close deals, they continue.

In ANY industry that has commission incentives of any sort, it leads to some form of corruption. Most buyers are aware of this and it takes a really good salesman to close deals in an inundated marketplace.

Off topic?

This form of corruption is BOUND to find its way into the classroom if teachers are provided such incentives. What's worse is that it only gets worse. The government will slowly chip away at base salaries until all teachers are commission only, which results in a disgusting mess of even more poorly educated citizens, unable to sustain a country as they get to age.

In schools, where education is a service that is imperative to the future of our nations, PAY THE FREAKING TEACHERS PROPERLY!

Then again, perhaps such concepts began as a way to get higher test scores across the board and show the US as having superior educational system, some things go much deeper than the surface I suppose. Either way, it is pure corruption of a system designed to educate. Teachers are supposed to get that extra reward from thankful, bright students who go on to great futures.

Yeah I know, bit of a rant there that I was trying to curb too.

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Come on...

by AnsuGisalas In reply to Commission, or merit pay ...

tell us how you really feel! :^0

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