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The debate is not over - Scientists meet to dispute global warming theory

By maxwell edison ·
NEW YORK CITY - The A-list of manmade climate-change skeptics is meeting in New York City for the 2009 International Conference on Climate Change.

The Conference is definitely international in scope. Opening the conference is Vaclav Klaus, president of the Czech Republic and the European Union. When it comes to manmade global warming, Klaus calls that a myth. He is also an outspoken critic of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, and says the panel is one-sided and has a political agenda.

Featured at the conference will be more than 70 scientists who do not subscribe to the notion that so-called global warming is driven by manmade emissions of carbon dioxide, one of those being Harrison "Jack" Schmitt -- one of the last astronauts to walk on the moon.

The Conference is being hosted by The Heartland Institute. Dan Miller is the director of public relations at Heartland.

"What we are trying to accomplish with this conference is to present to the politicians and to the public that the debate is not over about global warming or climate change; that there is plenty of room for disagreement; and that sound science shows that the earth is not warming," says Miller.

"For much of the latter part of the 20th century there's been a mild warming as we come out of an ice age -- but the planet today is much cooler than it was a thousand years ago."

Besides the 70+ scientists at this conference, more than 650 scientists worldwide have expressed skepticism over manmade climate change.


http://www.onenewsnow.com/Culture/Default.aspx?id=439146

http://www.onenewsnow.com/Culture/Default.aspx?id=440562

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Of course it isn't over, Max.

by Oz_Media In reply to The debate is not over - ...

It has been ongoing for many decade now. 30 years ago it was global cooling, then global warming and now the more accurate 'climate change'.

From what I can see, this meeting is not to really discuss the theory of global warming, but is more focused towards the theories behind the CAUSE of global warming, or more specifically 'is it man made or not?'.

As the group seems to be mainly comprised of scientists and advocates against man made global warming, I don't see what possible positive outcome there could be other than they prove to themselves that GW was not created by man. Which is only rarely contested by GW advocates anyway.

Most GW advocates already agree that global warming is not man made, however they see mankind's emissions as contibuting to the speed of the transition.

Most GW naysayers argue that man didn't cuase GW. Which has not been contested by the advocates either.

The debate will be perpetual until the two sides realize they are not opposing or supporting the same argument.

One side says man didn't create it, but it is a subject that needs to be addressed as man's emissions are contributing to the natural effects or GW.

The other side says man did not create it because GW is a natural phenomenon.

Some will say its all crap because its snowing outside.

Some feel Nostradamus had it pegged as the indication of major change to mankind due in 2012.

You also continue to bring it up in an effort to dispell myths or solidify your own beliefs on a regular basis.

But one thing that remains constant, no matter what side is speaking, those 'for' it say that man's emissions MAY contribute to this natural phenomenon. Those against it say that man is not responsible for global warming, completely ignoring the first assertion and answering a question only they have raised.

Once they can agree on what they are debating, they MAY be able to find some answers.

I think between the press and yourself, the global warming 'debate' will continue for eternity, however long or short, hot or cold that may be.

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It is presented differently in the states than in other countries

by jdclyde In reply to Of course it isn't over, ...

Here, we are told repeatedly that the debate is over.

Here, there are wingnuts comparing GW deniers to holocaust deniers, and have even talked about making legislation to silence the "deniers".

Because of these fringe groups taking over media and politics in the US, it is VERY important for REAL science to finally get a say.

Other nations that see it as just important to not poison the Earth without the anti-corporation, anti-business, anti-progress politics don't have as much of a need to combat the insane rhetoric.

Cap-and-trade is a scam that will steal from one and give to another based upon arbitrary standards.

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I understand that

by Oz_Media In reply to It is presented different ...

I know it is a media frnzy down there but i would expect that most people can s ethrough it, just as they should be able to see through political BS. What is it with people that believe whatever they hear or believe it pourely based on an source they are afraid to question? That's not freedom by any stretch of the imagination, JD.

I see the same problem with this issue as with any presidential race, lack of middle, reasonable ground.

It is always extremes to one side or another and very little common, realistic ground.

Without claiming superiority, I see Canada as mainly left-centred, on such issues with the government's opinion being the least trusted/credible source for ANY information we are fed.

People will heed David Suzuki's words long before even listening to what the government thinks. the same goes in the UK, where John Cleese has more credibility and devoted listeners than Paul Martin.

You are right in that it is political in teh US, it is here too but we ignore the political part and just do our own part(sure they tax us for it, but nobody pays any attention to that crap up here anyway).

In Canada the people gurdgingly accept the government because it is noted that 'at least it isn't as bad as the US government', but rarely trust or rely on it.

The government does its thing, the people do their thing, the two are very rarely related.

So its up to us, and that's why i am always on abotu personal changes and personal responsiblity, being more resourceful etc. If that solves teh great GW swindle, so be it, if not at least we saved resources and were more environmentally friendly, for ourselves, our children and the amazing wildlife that we share the planet with.

Nobody loses regardless of the outcome, but perhaps we just MIGHT win in the long run too.

Why does it NEED to be forced upon us?
Why do they NEED proof for us to be less wasteful?
Why do we need ot be pushed into responsible actions to make our world a better place to live in?
How much money do people have to save before they realize its not so hard to do?

Personal responsiblity or lack thereof is always an issue in the USA it seems.

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Worse before it gets better

by jdclyde In reply to I understand that

As it seems we have a huge voting block that thinks that by getting BO elected, they have hit the gravy train.

Personal responsibility? everyone knows it is the fault of "the rich".

And this is like the proabortion/antiabortion camps. They DO know how the "give an inch" rule works against them, thanks to "Precedence" being the law of the land instead of actual constitutional law.

There is not a common sense approach being offered. It is a wild-eyed "New York will be under 100 feet of water and we will all drown!" bs being fed to our kids.

A firm STFU is the only reply you can give unreasonable people that have had their little minds made up for them a long time ago in favor of the myth of man-made global warming.

Someone offers a solution to cutting emissions, I am all ears. Someone just says something stupid like "SUV's are bad" or "don't drive".... well.....

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I just read that statement for the first time last night

by Oz_Media In reply to Worse before it gets bett ...

"New York will be under 100 feet of water and we will all drown!"

I read that on another forum last night, I couldnt' believe what i wa sreading, "What a clueless idiot!' is all I could think, I didn't even bother replying as it was just insane.

I can't believe there are people on Earth that actually believe such crap. I've heard some real left wing rants from BC, believe me its always about forests and fish around here, but I have yet to hear something as completely screwed up as that. HOW? Where are these people from? What lack of education leads to believing such contrived bull anyway?

I'm not saying Canadians are smarter than you, we only have 10% of your population so the real nutjobs are fewer or more easily dismissed as one offs.

SUV's are bad, don't drive. Well I drive an SUV too, i also tow a trailer and drag my dirt bikes into teh hills to bomb around and burn up teh gas in teh woods for aweekend. that is quality of life though, which I am not abotu to be forced into sacrificing either. However the little things, recycling, better windows, lights, heat etc. can all help reduce our carbon footprint a great deal. I don't agree with our governmentimplementing a carbon tax, that's BS, but its also the government and nobody cares what they do here anyway. We still just soldier on and do our own thing as if they don't exist. It's not sticking your head in the sand, people are aware but simply not concerned enough to let it ruin their quality of life either.

Cheers, JD.
That's my point, if we just watch ourselves we are on teh right path.

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I am personally more concerned

by jdclyde In reply to I just read that statemen ...

with ground water contamination.

And yes, many of the extremists in the US would gleefully make it ILLEGAL or put a punitive tax out there to punish people like you that burn gas in the woods for entertainment.

underwater, I take it you never watched Mr. Gores slide show? Although he said 20 feet, I have heard the 100 feet more than once.

Need some chlorine in the gene pool.

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Unfortunately I did

by Oz_Media In reply to I am personally more conc ...

I did see Gores kaibosh of a GW scare presentation. It's people like that who cause these issues to be never ending debates to begin with. If the message was clear, simple and concise, people wouldn't argue the point.

Its easy to say "FU, I don't believe New York will be underwater so therefore the whole GW and personal responsiblity thing is all crap."

If it was focused on reality, small changes and not government imposed ones, just small efforts that see us all on the same page, we are ahead of the game already.

For instance, I don't think there are too mahy peers here opposed to recycling, within reason. I don't think there are too many peers here who would disagree that driving to the corner store is a waste, and while it is convenient when we are lazy, it's not a huge imposition to take on, again as a personal responsiblity.

That's why I comment about David Suzuki so much, he's REAL, and not just full of scare tactics and trying to impose regulations on us, just asking for everyone to do a little that adds up to a lot.

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I can get behind that

by road-dog In reply to I am personally more conc ...

Even though I believe that MMGW is a load, I'm not against common sense good stewardship of my little piece of the earth.

I believe in mass transit when and for whom it makes sense. Quite frankly, it doesn't suit my work situation but it can be a cost effective solution for others. I have serious heartburn with municipalities running them at a loss and asking non-users to pick up the tab. If a city cannot run a bus line efficiently, they should open the service up for bid rather than doing it in typical government fashion.

I do sort out paper and plastic on trash day. Even though it doesn't balance out economically versus new right now, I believe that things that can be reused should be. I just don't believe that government needs to mandate it. At some point someone will come out with a cheap and easily recyclable plastic. It won't be a government.

I too loathe the people who think that a little boonie bashing on the week-end should be banned because the environment might be damaged.

I think that companies that make toxic waste while conducting business should be considering prudent waste disposal as part of CODB. Those who cut corners harm the quality of life for their neighbors and compete unfairly in the economy.

I guess what I'm saying is that the private sector is the solution to all our ills, not government.

Private sector:
Build a better mousetrap and the world will make a path to your door.

Government:
Create taxes that will cripple business while not solving the mouse problem. When the problem is not solved, blame business and raise taxes again.

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service up for bid

by Oz_Media In reply to I am personally more conc ...

We used to have our bus service operated as a Crown corporation under the name BC Hydro (the forner name of our princial power company, hydro of course because we run on hydro electric power).

A few years back, that was up for public bis and a company name Coast Mountain Translink started to handles bus services and also took over BC Ferries, which run back and forth to Vancouver Island and up through the Queen Charlotte's on the BC coast.

One drawback, they are a privately owned and operated company. However, THEY pushed teh government to impose a gas tax that is then used to help offset funding the new 'private' bus line. A few cents from every litre goes to a private company that has no relationship to the oil companies.

Now THAT is a how a crown corporation handles things, not a private company.

They then started hiking ferry rates bit by bit, now to take just myself and my truck to the Island I am looking at around $80 each way (1hr45min trip each way).

So yeah, they privatized, the province rejoiced. Then they started nickle and diming us with support of the government.

BC Translink is also responsible for all roads, bridges and waterways they use, so whenever a road tax is implemented, guess how gets the money. A bridge needs work and they don't use the road taxes they've collected to fix it, they go to the city again and hold their hands out.

But on a good note, they just got a one year lease ($1/yr) on the world's first double decker hybrid bus in Victoria, the first double deckers in North America were used in Victoria so there's some history behind it too.

They also have several hybrid, single tier buses running around too. So they ARE tryign to look good or do better, but it is still just a dog and pony show until it is widespread enough to make a larger difference.

Private companies running buses? Sure, that happens.

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the global warming theroy

by half In reply to Of course it isn't over, ...

Look back through the last 2000 years at the changes in the world temps and you will find that there have been warm spells and cool spells.
In England around the 12-13 century it was warm, At that time they built a lot of the castles, churches, and other major constructions.
History also shows that in the 15-16 century, the River Thames froze over.That was a cool period.
I have read that most of the CO2 gas is held in the Oceans, lakes ect. When the water gets warmer ,I>E less dense, it releases this gas, and the one eyed jump on the warming bandwagon. this process does not happen overnight. It has been proved that it takes 8oo years to do a cycle, as the water cools again it locks in the CO2 again.
SO really if the global warming is caused by man it is a load of rubbish,
If the time frame is correct, there was only a few people around compared to today and they did not have the technology to produce the so-called greenhouse gases in todays amounts.
So in summery it seems to me some scientific person made a comment about this and it was picked up by the treehuggers,and then the governments thought, [We can make money out of this] and it snowballed.
The whole recycle industry is based on this and it does not matter that it takes a lot more "carbon footprint' to process this. It has the people brainwashed to think they are doing the right thing, and someone is laughing all the way to the bank.
If there was a real problem the governments would have got in behind alternative fuel systems, with the same enthusiasm that they jumped on the warming exercise. They moan about the carbon but they pussyfoot along the fuel track as they are making too much money from the taxes, and they rely on the money to keep the country afloat.
So it is a joke and nothing will change as it boils down to the $$$$

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