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  • #2286337

    The IT Fairy Tale

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    by ahickman ·

    Well from what I can tell after almost a week of reading and posting on the Outsourcing disucssion thread is that most of the people in IT are SHEEP who do not belive that one day they will be led to the slaughter house. They believe in this Fairy Tale about an IT Tech who works 70 hours per week, spends $10,000.00 per year going to school for certs and keeps his job while all the rest of the “lazy” sheep are led to slaughter.

    Outsourching is killing the Horatio Alger IT Social Myth.

    While you and I and others who see what is comming are being treated like the “Little Boy Who Cried Wolf”

    The Outsourcing Story has a moral.

    But, from what I can tell, most IT people are content to stick their heads in the sand and pretend that everything is ok. Obviously, if it has not happened to me, it won’t.

    Or, the most Famous of Last Words…..”It won’t happen here”.

    Thoes who fail to learn from History are doomed to repeat it.

    Obviously what happened to the UAW, the Steel industry, the textile industry, etc., won’t happen to the IT industry.

    Ah, anyone reading this remember recent history?….The DOT COM Boom and BUST?

    Ah..anyone understand what the MATRIX movies were trying to say?

    I do recomend that all currently employed IT Professionsals start organizing their finances so that when they are led to the slaughter they have a couple of years worth of money in the bank whille they go to “Burger U” or “Greeter U” for their next career.

    Now is a good time to sell your house, pay off and turn in your credit cards and get a used car before your forced to do it. It’s not pretty making $9-$12/hour schlepping hardware on a short term assignment.

    However, you can get a nice high paying ATM Service Tech job for a cool $13/hour. Lab Techs are making $10/hour these days and the Nursing Profession and Teaching Professions are filling up fast.

    And, of course the US Government is giving all the lower paying jobs to illegal immigrants.

    OH – this brings up APEASEMENT…..

    Anyone remember Hitler and Chamberlain? Oh, that was before the 8088. Not relevant to today.

    Guess not, unless you happened to be Jewish in Warsaw or Berlin in the 1930’s and 40’s.

    Now can anyone tell me why IT Professionals are more secure than say an Auto or Steel Worker.

    Especially since advances in remote support tools will make it increasingly easy to ship LAN AFMIN and Help Desk Jobs offshore to people making $3-$4,000.00 per year. Lot of good your MSCE certs will do you in a few years.

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    • #2727724

      IT Fairy Tale – Post Script

      by ahickman ·

      In reply to The IT Fairy Tale

      It should be obvious to everyone that what is happening is that American Business sees that they have made about as much money as they can in the US, and that if they want to survive, they are going to have to invest in emerging nations. Now there are 250-300 Million Americans, and 1 Billion + Indians and 1 Billion + Chineese.

      If you owned a burger company, where would you look to for your companies future? An America that is aging or India and China who are still in a growth mode?

      Face it, American Industry has virtually written off America.

      Americans are getting too old, too over weight so we bring in illegals to handle the manual labor for the next 10-20 years until the Baby Boomers die off, and ship as many of our jobs off shore so that we can build other economies to sell our products to.

      In Technology Terms, America is a Main Frame economy and the rest of the world is Client-Server.

      So American IT Professionals are going to go the way of Fortran and Cobol Programers and Novel Network Professionals……

      • #2728535

        I disagree

        by lordinfidel ·

        In reply to IT Fairy Tale – Post Script

        While it’s true that some parts of IT can be outsourced/shipped oversee’s, there are still a great many positions that can not.

        If I owned a business such as dell, why should I have to be bled by american workers who are doing entry level phone support, that just read off of a script that I give them?

        I’m not anti-american by any stretch of the imagination, but a US worker expects to make more just because they are a US worker. I have a hard time paying someone 15/hr to do phone support reading off of a script.

        Programming is a grey area, some companies can get away with outsourcing their programming to countries like India. Others, who need 24/7 in house programmers can’t, this is especially true in companies that their core business revolve around the net and need access to their devolopment team in-house.

        One area that can’t be outsourced is network engineering. Only because you need to be able to be hands on with the equipment.

        It’s not all doom and gloom as you would like it to be.

        • #2729994

          Why do Americans ask for more money

          by jjonas ·

          In reply to I disagree

          Why does that US worker ask for $15 an hr ? Is it because the cost of living is higher ? And why is that ? Maybe because of all the infrastructure that is in place. Infrastructure that the CEOs and managers don’t mind taking advantage of … I don’t see any of them saying they don’t need city water or electric … or not be connected to the phone system … paid for not by foreigners or CEOs, but by the american worker. Like it or not, it costs money to have a system that has dependable electric, drinkable water, a dependable police and fire department. I don’t care what I make as long as I can afford housing for my family, food, education, health care. If that works out to be 10 cents an hr , I don’t care. Look at the Fortune 500 … what company is #1 ? Walmart. What does that say about the US economy ?

          >If I owned a business such as dell, why should I >have to be bled by american workers who are >doing entry level phone support, that just read >off of a script that I give them?

          And look what is happening … you end-up talking to people in India who ONLY follow a script, wasting time till you get someone who has a clue. That happened with people here too, the difference was it didnt take ten minutes for the two of you to understand what the other is saying.

          They are using off-shore to do bill-collection — Bill collectors here rarely make $15 an hr.

          Indian radiologists are interpreting american X-rays over the internet.

          Indian accountants are doing American taxes.

          In short, anything that can be outsourced is.

          Wallmart employees can’t be outsourced … or Target … or Burger King …

          And like other industries, its happening because businesses here have no forsight.

          We lost steel not just because of cheaper labor, but because the industry didnt want to invest in newer, more efficent technology. It went to Japan and Britain because companies there did invest.

          Software companies I have worked for did not want to use Java … it was too new … not proven … The companies I worked for gave us classes, but a select few worked on state-of-the art Java projects. Two companies in particular …

          At company #1, people took 25% pay cuts to keep the company going. When they decided to go with Java full-swing, they laid-off all kinds of people and hired an Irish company.

          At company #2, an internal group developed a state of the art J2EE application from the ground up. The idea that the project would expand was a carot for everyone that hung through a drastic lay-off. Being a Canadian company with offices in the US, they tried to cut costs by using more Canadians … till the Canadian dollar rose against the US. Then another lay-off came, and a meeting told everyone that J2EE was too hard to learn that instead it was being outsourced to a group in India. It was a ridiculous statement … most of the programmers were doing J2EE on their own ..

        • #2729973

          Wallmart employees can’t be outsourced

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to Why do Americans ask for more money

          They don’t need to outsource thier employees to retain market share. They OUTSOURCE all the manufacturing instead.

          WalMart has been denied business licences for several Canadian outlets due to unethical business practices. Thelocal municipalities want no part of WalMart. Funny enough, the (commonly known) trailer trash, drug, hooker and crime city of The Vancouver Lower Mainland, SURREY, has TWO WalMarts, go figure.

          They have offshore workers making garments and that cheapo crap they sell for next to nothing.
          if a local “American” store offers a great discount, WalMart will haggle with the third world workers to lower prices and get more for less. They actually feed the represssion and unfair treamtment of workers in other countries. They are forced to produce more for less, WalMart being a huge contract for these textile factories of course.

          This allows WalMart to offer a better price, usually for lower quality merchandise and at a greater margin than thier competitors can sell for.

          So while WalMart ‘seems’ to be the leader of volume purchasing and low prices, they make greater margins and exploit third world country’s workers by forcing production increases with lower costs.

          Sorry for the lecture, you hit a sore sopt I have studied for several years now, after watching them try to invade Canada the way you invaded Iraq.

          I will happily pay the few percent more to purchase Canadian goods manufactured in Canadian factories, or even off-shore factories that are treated and paid fairly. I won’t suppoprt exploiting a workforce.

        • #2729937

          Good for you

          by generalist ·

          In reply to Wallmart employees can’t be outsourced

          I’m also one of those people who does NOT shop at WalMart.

          One reason is because of their cost cutting technique of setting up their stores just outside city limits so that various taxes are lower. While this is useful for the bottom line of the company, it results in less funding for essential services.

          Another reason is their apparent lack of good sense when it comes to the impact of a WalMart store on neighboring areas. For example, WalMart wanted to put in a new store on the lot of an old plant nursery that was just up the hill from a quiet residential neighborhood. For some reason they didn’t think that paving over several acres and having bright lights and a lot more truck traffic would bother the neighbors a short distance from the proposed store.

          Thankfully the neighborhood rose up in anger and got organized. WalMart didn’t get the site rezoned as they wanted.

        • #2729863

          another reason to dislike Walmart

          by maecuff ·

          In reply to Wallmart employees can’t be outsourced

          Walmart is also notorious for mistreating their employees. They offer benefits, but rarely give any employee enough hours to actually qualify. And I’ve read recently that there are multiple lawsuits against different stores that have forced their employees to clock out, then go back and finish whatever job they were working on before they could leave. If they refused to work for free, they were fired. I can’t stand Walmart.

        • #2729705

          Gee perhaps the start of a new thread?

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to another reason to dislike Walmart

          Well I thought I stood alone, at least from American’s as WalMart has always seemed to be the US saviour, or so it seems to me WAY up here in the great, white, igloo filled North. OK, the mainly warmish, drizzly kinda grey most of the time, tree filled Southwest corner of BC.

          When I was studying my fifth year of Auto Engnineering, I was taking a practicum at a Woolco store (kinda like a full service K-Mart if you don’t have ’em there). We had half the shop to build our project Ferrari resto. and include modern engineering into the rebuild.

          About seven months in, a few more to go, WalMart bought Woolco and turned the shop into a tire and lube shop ONLY! Several full time mechanics packed up and moved on, three of us stayed under the SAE rules and were allowed to finish the government sponsored project. WalMart did NOT pay us, the government did. WalMart then expected us to start changing oil and tires, we all chuckled at the concept, already being licenced mechanics ourselves, sorry that’s first year stuff. They then wanted us to take employment from them directly and work for $9.00/hr. To which we called a car carrier to load up the Ferrari, packed up out tools and walked.

          the government then took action againstWalMart, which I ran screaming from, and a few years later won the suit and WalMart paid up a hefty fine to the Canadian government for not participating in the program as outlined in uor contracts.

          We ended up taking the car to our former technical institute and they let us finish there and get our SAE certifications, the SCHOOL still paid us our journeyman wages of $24/hr and they took care of recovering funds from the government but didn’t want it to be our problem.

          So that was our FIRST WalMart, then I sat in on a court hearing a year ago when they were turned down for a business in New Westminster. the city had a 22 page outline of bad business ethics and poor practices that they read to the court, it covered everything you can imagine, from exploiting third world workers, to not paying medical premiums and costing employees thier livlihoods, to improper dismissal to racism. It coevered EVERYTHING nasty and underhanded that a business can pull off. Obviously not in New West though.

          Please do me a flavor and ask this kind Mr. Walmart who has done so much good for the economy, to kindly keep his business south of our border where some peolpe actually appreciate the price of getting the lowest price.

          Woolco was a fantastic place, when WalMart moved in, they had little construction posters everywhere saying watch out for falling prices. In actuality, prices increased 10 -15% at least right across the board.

          Thanks for ridding us of our Canadian suuporter who offered good value for money and replacing it with some garbage made in substandard conditions by underpaid workers.

          “Thank you for shopping at WalMart, my ass!”

        • #2694205

          South of the border

          by generalist ·

          In reply to Gee perhaps the start of a new thread?

          I seem to recall seeing Woolco in some areas in the US. They appeared to be a good outfit.

          And I wouldn’t mind if WalMart was sent south of the border either. Of course, being in the US, that would mean south of the MEXICAN border.

        • #2694187

          good one

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to Gee perhaps the start of a new thread?

          well said, I got a smile out of it too.

          om

        • #2694146

          American business at work

          by jjonas ·

          In reply to Gee perhaps the start of a new thread?

          I’ve heard things about Wallmart in bits and pieces what you have said …

          FYI Woolco was (is ?) a part of Woolworth’s down here …

        • #2694104

          Wal-Mart’s motto

          by dc_guy ·

          In reply to Gee perhaps the start of a new thread?

          When Wal-Mart first started business, Sam Walton’s personal motto was posted in every store: “Buy American!”

        • #2694008

          That’s the irony

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to Gee perhaps the start of a new thread?

          WalMart has always been touted as americas favorite employer, WalMart is the pride of American retail, WalMart has increased the standards of business in America, on Biography they had an hour on WalMart and it’s growth throughout the years. It was all partiotic pride and they show it as a paradigm of retail expertise and hard work.

          Now I fully agree that this man started a business against the odds, fought with a strong proncipal and business ethic and has built an empire to be reconed with. This focus seems to have been completely ignored now and it is 100% how much revenue can we make while making low enough marhins to put competitors out of business, if we can’t put them out of bus. we will buy them instead.

          It’s sick really, what makes me even sicker is hearing all the people say how wonderful WalMart is and how great thier storess and products are, I’d like to find out what kind of garbage these people bought BEFORE shopping at WalMart.

          It is refreshing to me as a Canadian to see some Americans also have a negative view on thie form of rerail capitalism. Thanks for your replies!

          OM

        • #2694005

          rerail capitalism

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to Gee perhaps the start of a new thread?

          Sorry that was my Scooby Doo impression. One day I’ll learn to type, well probably not but maybe one day people will understand me, well probably not. May as well stick with the Rooby DOOO!!!

        • #2729855

          But even Microsoft

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to I disagree

          Is developing their next version of ISA in Israel. So other then the core hardware design most jobs in the IT field are moving off shore.

          It is only places like Intel who design their products in the USA and then ship them offshore to build them.

          Currently over here when I ring Microsoft to activate any of their products I get some one in India to give me the numbers and they are very hard to understand as their accent is very heavy.

          Col

        • #2729815

          Like someone else said

          by lordinfidel ·

          In reply to But even Microsoft

          It’s the price to pay for having a global economy.

          But it will eventually even itself out. As more jobs go oversees, those countries workers will start to demand higher salaries.

          Never estimate greed of the individual. Remember, at one point in the history of the US, workers were happy to slave for min wage. Now we demand everything, the kitchen sink and a foosball table.

          Yes it sucks for the american worker, but not all tech related companies are shifting their jobs oversees. I know mine isn’t, but then again our operations does not grant the type of leeway that is needed to allow for jobs to be done outside of the immediate area of physical contact.

    • #2727716

      Well Said

      by thechas ·

      In reply to The IT Fairy Tale

      Thank you for your insightful comments.

      The problem is the change to a global economy is going to force a paradigm shift for the average American.

      No longer will we be able to train in a single field and expect to be able to stay in that field until retirement.

      It will take time, but eventually (2 to 3 generations) the global economy will reach a stasis point where there will be no low wage country for business to outsource to. Then, local business factors will be the deciding factor as to where a business locates.

      In the short term, we need to find a way for the executives and boards of directors to feel the pain of the workers they displace.

      Personally, I would like to see corporate boards clamp down on executive salaries.
      There is no justifiable reason for the multi-million dollar compensation packages handed out to CEO’s.

      While I don’t want to see it get to this point, if the corporate boards do not start self policing executive compensation, perhaps the government should place a 90% tax on all executive compensation that is more than say 100 times the median compensation of ALL real and second sourced employees.

      On a further note, the salary of our elected officials should be indexed to the median after tax per capita income.

      Chas

      • #2729981

        I mostly agree

        by jjonas ·

        In reply to Well Said

        I agree except with the part about reaching an equilibrium. There will always be a cheaper place to hire someone.

        I think senate and house terms should be limited just like executive positions. Closer to what the founders had in mind I think. Congress is off in the summer because a lot of the congressmen were farmers … how many are farmers now ? People that need someone else’s money to keep their job are always beholding to them …

        Every time a CEO lays-off an american in order to hire someone off-shore they are probably helping to lay-off some others … My company laid-off 40 people … those people used to do things they can’t now , including buy services and products that they consider extras. Eventually this effect will reach the CEO’s customers … which will reach the CEO’s profit margin.

        All these lay-offs affect the tax base ..

        In other words, long term, the CEO is doing the wrong thing for his company … but stock holders and CEOs don’t care about the long term.

      • #2729777

        What do Indian CEOs Make?

        by jmclain12 ·

        In reply to Well Said

        Does anyone know what outsourcing company’s CEOs make?!? I get the feeling that outsourcing won’t change much until CEO jobs start getting outsourced.

    • #2727701

      Dajavu?

      by oz_media ·

      In reply to The IT Fairy Tale

      Didn’t I just read all this in amother thread?

      You have some good points, a little desenchanted, if IT fails I don’t flip burgers or work in shipping but you rpoint is for people to get a taste of reality. I’ve always said people need to do more for less or at least be able to offer more than a single skill/talent to the world.

      The matrix reference degraded a lot of credibility but all in all your point was made.

      But I am really sure I’ve read it before, (insert Twighlight Zone theme here).
      OM

    • #2727688

      Unfortunately, Outsourcing is here to stay

      by av . ·

      In reply to The IT Fairy Tale

      The truth is, any job in any industry that can be done overseas is going. Whether its IT, manufacturing, automobiles, lawyers, whatever. This is our new global economy.

      Most outsourcing is done by big business. I don’t think small business has the resources or inclination to outsource overseas. Thats where the jobs in IT are now but there are a lot less of them.

      Big companies like IBM, HP, Intel have been outsourcing for years as well as utilizing the H1b and L1b visa programs.

      Lots of people have voiced their concerns about outsourcing. Check out Lou Dobbs on CNN or organizations like techsunite.org or washtech.org. They have given IT workers a voice and shined a spotlight on outsourcing and its effects on the American labor market. That spotlight has spawned some proposed legislation that would limit outsourcing in different ways, but its just a start.

      Outsourcing is a definite hot-button issue in our presidential election this year because there has been no job creation in America, as promised by our government. It makes me laugh to hear all of the industry economists say they can’t understand why there are no jobs. They know what the truth is.

      Bush is pro-outsourcing and pro big-business. So was Clinton when he signed NAFTA into law. John Kerry may put the brakes on outsourcing if elected, but who knows.

      Face it, today in our global economy, no one has a secure job if it can be outsourced. If it isn’t outsourced, than someone on a visa program living in America can fill your job.

      If our government does not do something to slow the outsourcing effect on American jobs, I may be selling my house, buying a used car and working for $10 per hour as you have suggested.

    • #2728641

      treated like sheep

      by dabouras ·

      In reply to The IT Fairy Tale

      Yep.
      According to a recent Time magazine articla the answer is “training”. Now I majored in Physics, have a masters in computer science, 2 years of graduate work in bio-engineering and numerous technical training classes. Training? The fact of the matter is one has to live where the jobs are. If they go overseas, well, I’m moving.

      We have to watch out for ourselves. Sheep get slaughtered.

    • #2728576

      Migrant IT farmers

      by fredz ·

      In reply to The IT Fairy Tale

      To a large extent, a lot of engingeers, programmers, software engineers, etc., are dependent on large government or military projects. In 1967, I got a job in the space program with Boeing and moved to Huntsville Ala. This was a great run from 1967 to 1970. The soil was very rich, but the nutrients dried up after 3 years of planting the same crop. Then, our company went from 10,000 people to 500 in about 2 and 1/2 years. I remember sending out 133 resumes and got 2 responses. I then got a job in California in 1970. I was the last engineer hired for about 5 years. Again the design cycle ended, the soil was depleted, and I was layed off. Our company went from 20,000 to 10,000. Next I found some new crops in the oil industry and eventually those fields were depleted and the company moved our department to Texas where they found there were better fields to work in. After a few years, even this crops were depleted and the acerage reduced. I was made an offer I couldn’t refuse and left that farm.

      I’ve always had to go where the crops are to do my living. However, I am not going outside the US for a job as was suggested in one of the threads. I will search the area I’m in now for fields that can be fertilized, planted and harvested and hope for good weather. Despite our our college education, training, and technological prowess, we still have to face the same problems everyone else faces. That is no dream. So, if one area dries up, the crops are harvested, or a new harvester replaces 100 workers, just like the migrant farmer, I have to look again. This is no dream, but reality.

      • #2728565

        Reply To: The IT Fairy Tale

        by dc_guy ·

        In reply to Migrant IT farmers

        My wife calls us e-braceros.

    • #2728536

      Godwin’s Law

      by dmuth ·

      In reply to The IT Fairy Tale

      >Anyone remember Hitler and Chamberlain?

      Godwin’s Law. And on the first post, even.

      Thanks for playing.

      • #2728498

        Ouch

        by mallardtooxx ·

        In reply to Godwin’s Law

        Man, pulling Godwin’s out that quick… that is harsh.

        good call though-

        -duck

      • #2728492

        Not so, Godwin’s law won’t apply here.

        by oz_media ·

        In reply to Godwin’s Law

        First of this is TR, secondly, “there is also a widely- recognized codicil that any intentional triggering of Godwin’s Law in order to invoke its thread-ending effects will be unsuccessful.”

        “International Triggering” a no go.

        OM

        • #2728491

          Typo

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to Not so, Godwin’s law won’t apply here.

          Sorry that wasn’t supposed to say ‘International’, but Intentional.

        • #2728401

          sorry oz he’s right

          by lordinfidel ·

          In reply to Not so, Godwin’s law won’t apply here.

          the original poster f*d himself by invoking hitler/nazis in the first post.

          godwins law is pretty clear, once nazi’s or hitler is invoked, someone can call godwins law, claim victory and end the thread.

          while it may not be “official usenet”, it is a unmoderated thread so under the geneva convention godwin’s still applies here.

          (i’m just pissed that I did not catch it)

        • #2730008

          I read it but ignored it

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to sorry oz he’s right

          There’s always some yahoo who compares modern events to hitler oooops, I’ve done that too haven’t I !?! YAHOOOO!

          Anyhow, I just ignored the entry posts comments as they are nonsense to begin with. But to call check mate in the middle of a discussion, what’s happened to TR?

        • #2729950

          It has nothing to do with TR

          by lordinfidel ·

          In reply to I read it but ignored it

          those are just the rules of the net….

          regardless whether or not the post is taking place on bugtraq, slashdot or TR.

      • #2728402

        Nice catch

        by lordinfidel ·

        In reply to Godwin’s Law

        Game Over

    • #2729774

      Are we hippocrites?

      by jmclain12 ·

      In reply to The IT Fairy Tale

      How many of us raised a ruckus when union jobs started going overseas? I didn’t. I think I remember saying something about how we are moving towards a global economy. Now that global economy is knocking at my door.

      Maybe this is what it takes to open people’s eyes as to the benefit/cost of the global economy. Certainly it has mine. I don’t believe the US should become nationalistic, but I will support elected officials that will start making it harder for companies to export jobs!

      • #2729718

        Reply To: The IT Fairy Tale

        by dc_guy ·

        In reply to Are we hippocrites?

        Sounds like you answered your own question about hypocrisy. ^_^

        • #2729701

          Honest though

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to Reply To: The IT Fairy Tale

          I don’t know if it is hypocritical on his behalf. He has at least been man enough to see that he once supported the idea and now sees the true disadvantages of it and even more honest to say it.

          Now if he had complained and was still comlaining it would be different. I think there was some realization involved though so this was a lesson learned.

          As for the rest of the whining, I’d would go and get some work before complaining about not having work, then there would be nothing to bitch about at all. I just don’t see the benfit, the government will screw the people at it’s every chance, once you see this, it is so much easier to just do your thing and the government no longer exists as a factor. If they approve my job for offshore outsourcing, they will be paying for me to train in somethnig else if I don’t already have other skills. I’m not going to sit and complain about it though, they can either pay me welfare while I have a little holiday (if unemployed during the summer, have the government pay for your beer and camping trips while you work under the table). During th ewinter, if I hven’t found work, or looked, they can pay for my trainaing in another field, they can pay my rent and bills while I attend school, they can pay for me to take my apprenticeship at my new trade etc.

          You don’t want to pay for my retraining, you can’t sell my job out overseas.

          now this sounds harsh but the government knows that’s exactly what we’d do, so they don’t piss off the employees. If they piss people off, people take extended vacations on the EI pocketbook. One year of EI benefits = One year of drinking at the beach or camping.

          Now I for one could not stand not working for a year, I’d go stir crazy, but you can still collect EI (Employment Insurance) and work on the side, the government HATES that.

          If I wanted to take part in the governments actions, I’d have studied politics in school. I don’t though, so keep it out of my face and I’ll live my life in peace, if you’re in my face you will pay me to listen to you bottom line.

    • #2694162

      Outsourcing CEO/CIO Jobs

      by ahickman ·

      In reply to The IT Fairy Tale

      Someone hit the nail on the head. When the CEO, CFO, CIO, etc jobs start getting outsourced THEN somehow Outsourcing American Jobs will become a MAJOR American Crisis.

      Also….sorry for breaking the “H..ler” rule. I had no idea it existed.

      Dumb in Illinois…..

      • #2694159

        beat the bush harder may be u find the bird

        by raghu ·

        In reply to Outsourcing CEO/CIO Jobs

        outsourcing is not a new thing, its been done for donkeys years
        now. CEO/CFO jobs cannot be outsourced till u have a diff
        business model altogether. This. ……………………………

        Then again, you are not looking for any solution to the problem.

    • #2693968

      It’s not just outsourcing, and it’s not just IT …

      by jardinier ·

      In reply to The IT Fairy Tale

      I think your advice is sound for anyone engaged in any profession. Retrenchments occur regularly in most trades/professions. Preparing for the possibility of this happening — especially if you have a mortgage and other debts — is a must for everyone.

      In the print industry for a start, a whole trade was made obsolete by technology. I am referring to the linotype operators who worked with molten lead to produce our newspapers and other publications. With the introduction of other methods of printing, people in this highly skilled trade were turned overnight into mere typists, and eventually made redundant
      altogether.

      Not so long ago in Australia, about 50 per cent of architects were unable to find employment, because the jobs were just not there.

      During my lifetime I have seen buses with driver and conductor replaced with one-man buses, so that the fares could still be affordable. If any of you were born before supermarkets came into existence, you will know that many smaller shops could not compete with the buying power of huge chains, and so went to the wall.

      Ironically, over the past couple of decades especially, it has been the introduction and rapid development of computers which has made many types of jobs redundant, while at the same time opening up a whole different set of vocations.

      But the bottom line is: it can happen to you — at any time, and in any trade or profession. So, like a Boy Scout, we should always be prepared for the unexpected.

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