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Thought Police are Moving in Again - Indonesia now

By Deadly Ernest ·
I participate in a few forums, a couple are to do with writing. Some of the authors there write erotica and other adult type stories (ie some is straight out porn). On one of the forums an author has sent out a request for help from another author who is very prolific. the situation is this:

1. Mid 2008 Indonesian government passes law to ban all adult theme web sites from display within the country. It matters not where it's hosted.

2. It's not immediately implemented due to a constitutional challenge and the need for ISPs to implement procedures etc.

3. Oct 2009 - full ban seems to be put in place and now affects all ISPs and they are all now compliant.

The result is anything that has even a hint of an adult theme or anything against their interpretation of the Quran is now banned and blocked. As near as I can find out from a few email exchanges, even some web sites where they sell bikinis and have pictures of models in bikinis are on the banned list - heaven help the Victoria's Secret web site; anyone know if VS have stores in Indonesia, if so they may soon have to close.

The help request was for technical advice on how to get around this, I'll pass along anything that's provided, but my main reason for posting this is a lot more personal.

Here, in Australia, the government is in the process of getting similar thought control laws passed, current proposals seem to include euthanasia and abortion sites on the banned list as well, this is being fought by various bodies. But, how does the TR community feel about such thought control laws, and the heavy handed behaviour of the governments concerned? Please add your thoughts on this.

To add to the discussion, I recently became aware of this news item:

(I hope the link works properly - it's the Anchorage Daily News from 11 Oct 2009)

And think on the following quote too, in one of the comments to the ADN article:


"The state must declare the child to be the most precious treasure of the people. As long as the government is perceived as working for the benefit of the children, the people will happily endure almost any curtailment of liberty and almost any deprivation."

-Mein Kampf, Adolf Hitler, Publ. Houghton Miflin, 1943, Page 403

end quote

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All countries should ban kiddie porn

by AV . In reply to Thought Police are Moving ...

It just isn't acceptable in any form. I wouldn't miss adult hard-core porn either.

Victoria's Secret? I think thats benign, but I'm not in a muslim country.

There has to be some control laws, but they should be used sparingly. Euthanasia and abortion? I could live without those videos, but wouldn't be in favor of banning access to information about it.


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Without getting into a definition of kiddie porn, this ban

by Deadly Ernest In reply to All countries should ban ...

covers all porn and then some, even strictly text web sites that are tagged as adult themes are blocked, as well as the Sport Illustrated Swimsuit edition.

What we're talking about is not images of porn, euthanasia, or abortion, but images, or text - even discussion sites on the subjects.

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What about porn that corrupts kids?

by DelbertPGH In reply to All countries should ban ...

I don't believe that Hitler was talking about filming kids in sex acts... he was talking about sheltering them from bad influences. Convince parents that you're keeping the kids on the straight and narrow, and the people will willingly let the state censor the cultural environment.

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The porn can't corrupt the kids if the parents monitor the

by Deadly Ernest In reply to What about porn that corr ...

use of the computer and the Internet, instead of just ignoring it all.

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Anyone who

by Kenone In reply to All countries should ban ...

looks at depictions of naked kids and sees porn needs to be locked up. That's your pedophile there.

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Amen brother, Amen, let the choir sing now. - nt

by Deadly Ernest In reply to Anyone who
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Well, that's interesting

by NickNielsen In reply to Thought Police are Moving ...

On the censorship in Indonesia, I strongly suspect the reason given by the government is that most likely to placate the mullahs and not the government's actual reason for wanting to limit internet access.

On the linked story, children should be protected from certain things no matter what, and sexual predators are one of those things. Sexual images of actual children should be neither available nor legal.

The drawings in question in the Alaska article, though, are another thing. If they do not depict an actual living child, to my mind they are art (no matter how disgusting I may find it) and therefore protected speech.

As a long-time fan of animation, I have explored adult-themed offerings over the years, including traditional anime and newer 3D animations. The depictions in most such are almost always fantastic realizations (i.e., buxom and curvy female figures, well-endowed and muscular males); certain genres take these fantasies almost to parody. I've seen some niche efforts as well, including one that I actually regretted viewing, but even in those, fantasy supplanted realism.

The world is not safe. Stuff happens. Sometimes it happens to children. I cry for the children in question and I feel for the parents. However, banning such images will not stop child sexual predation any more than Prohibition stopped alcohol consumption.

And I don't want to live in a world where Mrs. Grundy rules.

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all too true, and on the anime side you've got the genre

by Deadly Ernest In reply to Well, that's interesting

where they have eighteen year olds that look like what we'd expect twelve year old to look like. But it all comes down to the questions:

Does the government have the right to go overboard with huge blanket bans to stop a minority area?

I call it a minority area as the laws currently ban explicit or sexual photos of children and the sexual abuse of children. There are already systems in place that you can use to deny your children access to adult images. What they're after now is anything of a remotely sexual nature because some adult in some remote corner may not set their system up to deny children the chance to look at porn on a computer. So to stop this happening, everyone must be stomped on and all improper images or text banned.

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Look for the Source

by TheChas In reply to Thought Police are Moving ...

The government usually does not come up with these ideas on it's own. If you dig deep enough, you will find an elected official who is either trying to please a constituent, or build up momentum and name recognition for a larger campaign.

Here in the US, the root of restrictive legislation can often be traced to a conservative grand-mother who disapproves of a book that her grand child checked out of the school library. She then (often with the aid of a church group) starts a movement to restrict the books that can be in the school and public libraries to only those that they approve of.

In the more modern version, grandma walks in as young Johnny is browsing a swimsuit or the Victoria's Secret web site, or even TMZ, and decries the fall of society.

Worse yet, is when grandma types in a wrong URL and gets to a site that shocks her. Then it's off to the preacher and the congressman to get the world back under control.

These same people also have a tendency to want to be exterior decorators for their communities. If you look at most zoning restrictions that have to with exterior aesthetics, you will usually find some politically connected person who was afraid the looks of the yard or house next door was going to lower their property value.

Our local exterior decorator was motivated to run for city council. From there she has tried very hard to control the local decor. Her personal crowning achievement was an ordinance prohibiting any garage sale signs between the sidewalk and the roadway. Complete with the requirement that city workers stop and remove signs when they see them.

She also was able to get Federal grant money to spruce up the area she considers the face of our downtown. Complete with decorative street lamps and selective brick pavement.

Still, the point is look beyond the officials and politicians creating the rules for the source driving the thought police rules and regulations. You may or may not be surprised who is behind them.


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I've seen it in action

by NickNielsen In reply to Look for the Source

It's a form of arrogance that believes it knows what's good for everybody else.

These same people are also usually the first to scream when forced to comply with rules promoted by others like them.

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