IT Employment

General discussion


Unionize IT Now!

By squaredge ·
Every two years a new OS comes out. Every two years a new crop of young freshly studied certs show up and underbid the the entire industry. I live in Boise. I just saw an ad in the paper here for a lan tech for $12/hour! When I first started in this industry I was making very good money. I had a new cert and a master's degree. Microsoft has promised the industry captains that the cost of doing business will go down. It's because Microsoft has trained way too many MCSE's and/or we are letting people into the industry without MCSE's. They haven't earned their space. I say we unionize the IT sphere!
I say we apply rules of work that apply to a 40 hour work week and serious overtime. I say we demand $50/hr for any IT related work, as a minimum. If we join together we have the power to run this world!

This conversation is currently closed to new comments.

Thread display: Collapse - | Expand +

All Comments

Collapse -

Iowa Salaries

by BFilmFan In reply to Unionize IT Now!

I've noticed that salaries in Iowa tend to be very low. I am sure it costs less to live there than in a number of other places.

My advice is to relocate.

Collapse -

To what end?

by propellerheadus In reply to Iowa Salaries

What exactly would unionizing IT accomplish? If its more money you want, try consulting (but that is pretty hard work and not everybody can hack it, trust me).

You have to pay your dues before you can sing the blues. Work five years or so, be good at it, get noticed, keep learning, and you will find success. That's the IT game in a nutshell.

Collapse -

To what end: redux

by tonyackerman In reply to To what end?

"Work five years or so, be good at it, get noticed, keep learning, and you will find success."

Simple response, no offense intended:


By the time you've spent enough time learning the niche that you service, some muddle manager will determine that you're now too expensive and the same work can be done by two headcount at Wipro India for half the cost. You'll be out on your ear faster than a single bit down an empty fiber pipe.

Read the writing on the wall folks. The work is being offshored faster than it's being created. Like any other decent paying industry that had it's roots in this country, we've mananged to export this industry also, tho' the turnaround time on this was remarkably short. If you think it's going to stop, you better take a good long hard look at the economics of this industry and realize the bottom line is all that counts. In short, anyone worth a damn is going to be too damn expensive.

There's a reason why companies want the H1B visa cap lifted and it's not because they can't find qualified people here, there are plenty! The folks from overseas are cheap and end up essentially as indentured servants. If they don't like the way they're being treated, worked or payed, the sponsorship for their visa can always be yanked and they can go back home (and don't tell me it can't happen, it does, I was on the sidelines watching it happen ).

There will always be some degree of IT work onshore, but unless you think working for Geek squad is a real career, these are difficult times for our line of work. Forget trying to find a new position if you're over 45 in this business unless you're Mark Lucovsky. Forget about the halcyon days of the dot com era, it's gone.

Do we need to unionize? Absolutely! If for no other reason than to establish a political front where we can influence the machinery that has some modicom of control over how much of our industry does and does NOT get exported. Maybe, just maybe we can exert some influence how the poor bastards in India are being treated and make it better for them, and in the process level the playing field. It's too late to stop it, all we can do now is try to slow it down and influence how it develops from here.

Otherwise, you want to work in the business? Start packing your bags and head to India.

(I've been in the business since '86, degrees in CS, Physic and Mathematics, worked at some of the biggest names in the industry. I have the street creds so don't even think it.)

Collapse -

Well said, Tony

by davidlburkett In reply to To what end: redux

I just re-read your posting. I think that you've said it all.

I hate to be so negative, but I simply don't see any light at the end of the IT employment tunnel. I would NEVER advise anyone to choose IT as a career path.

I too have credentials and a lot of experience. Fortunately, I've found a way to support myself that is not IT-centric.

Collapse -

by phurcum In reply to Well said, Tony

I am lucky i have a very good job now. After two years of waiting. I just finished working for one of the largest banks in the world,your local bank. i can say that in my group what Tony has described was accurate. while no one in my groiup was "shipped home" that methodology was very much implied on the level above in the States. it's too bad really, i found the Indians very knowledgeable, bright and wonderful people, mostly operating with this threat hanging over their heads.

Collapse -

IT is safe

by SciFiMan In reply to Well said, Tony

Certainly, some types of IT jobs can be outsourced, whether overseas or some other state. But I consider most of IT to be hardware related. When Betty in accounting can't print invoices, she isn't going to sit on the phone troubleshooting with India. She needs a onsite body to fix the problem. Can India swap out a bad video card. Swap drives in a server? Pull a cable? Go up on the roof and realign the Hughes VSAT dish? No, outsourcing sounds scary, but it doesn't bother me. But then, I'm not a maint. programer. Seems to me that half the companies that try outsourcing come back inhouse when the contract expires, if not sooner.

Collapse -

move the whole shop to India

by Absolutely In reply to IT is safe

If free-market $12 wages are elevated to $50 by unions, the whole brick & mortar operation will go someplace where workers are reasonable.

Collapse -

NO UNION has ever done any good

by Aaron A Baker In reply to move the whole shop to In ...

Unions thrive on the bottom line. That being the there is never enough money,or the hours are too long, or the Maternity leave isn't what it was, there's always some excuse.
Funny how there always seems to be a strike at the most inconvenient times for the innocents, "Us" who by the way, pay the Unions, but the Unions make damned sure that they nail us everytime.
What are they really doing?. What is their end Goal? That THEY will remain needed by the people who they are supposed to be serving.
Look around you, The Teamsters,The Lumber Industry, The Government Unions, are ANY of them broke? I wonder why. When they call a strike, do they care that it might devastate you financially, hurt your family, wipe you out? Not the Unions.
So now we're talking about allowing this Rat Pack into the IT business. Sure let's do it and then watch as everything we've ever worked for is whittled away and taken from us with little or no help fro the God Almighty Unions.
Oh they would put on the usual "Show" but the result would be the same.
Man, Don't talk to me about Unions.They are not about People, they are avarice, greed and their own self interests.
So by all means open the door and invite the Bloodsuckers in, then watch the IT industry die a slow and painful Death
Good Luck, especially if THEY get in.
Aaron :)

Collapse -

conspiracty theories are crazy...

by Absolutely In reply to move the whole shop to In ...

only if the people "in charge" are completely honest. I know I don't believe that they all are, and I believe that coercive wage controls are irrational because "value" of all goods and services are determined by the phenomenon competition, which only exists in systems where there is freedom of choice. Without economic competition and choice, the term value itself is meaningless. So, without knowing the history of labor unions in as much detail as you seem to have, I can say that all seems very plausible.

Collapse -

To Aaron, not true in the UK anyway

by Tony Hopkinson In reply to move the whole shop to In ...

I'm alive because of my union, I did 19 years in heavy industry, without my union management would have found it cheaper to risk my life. Without unions there would be no legislation safeguarding employees rights as pitiful as they are. Without unions my kid's would be sweeping up under the machines I worked on. Without unions I'd be letting my boss shag my duaghter in order to keep food on the table. Now the legislation to force employers to acceed to some basic human rightsm is in place and it would be politically inadvisable to hamstring it too much we simply don't need them as much as we used to.

Related Discussions

Related Forums