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by jdclyde 1 view

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349 replies

by jkampmeier

I first learned of Deep Freeze when I was in college. I work for a Public Housing Autority and we have student labs for less fortunate kids to use. These machines were being re-ghosted WEEKLY because of malware and viruses. I convinced them to give me the money to purchase 25 copies of Deep Freeze for these machines, and they stay in top shape, every day, for over a year now. The only concern with this being a home computer is that you can't make ANY changes to the system without 'thawing' it and a reboot. You can create a 'thawed' space for file storage.. but any changes you make... anything from adding a favorite to saving a document(not in thaw space) to completely and forcefully deleting the contents of the C:\WINDOWS folder is completely restored after a simple reboot.

My lab computers don't run an antivirus or anything anymore. They are set to shut down every evening at 9pm, or after 1 hour of non-use. This is all configurable in the Deep Freeze Administration console. You can even have it auto thaw, get Windows updates, Freeze, and reboot, all on it's own.

Great for absolute mitigation of problems, if you can deal with the hassle of not being able to make any changes to your machine without jumping through a few loops.

by maevinn

If you run DeepFreeze on the desktop and have an external hard drive for files and folder? Or would that defeat the purpose, and allow the malware to infect the external? --Sorry for the silliness of the question--I'm still learning when it comes to setting up safe hardware!

by bill

This is a little like "How do I associate with gangsters and not get into trouble?"

Watchersweb is a safe site run by a woman in Australia and has links to other sites that are presumably safe as well. It should meet his needs.

by pigeonhole_zz

Vmware has a canned firefox/linux vm that will run on their free player. Crank it up surf what you want shut it down. No worries.

by royinforest

I commend you for sticking with this problem, despite the obvious side-tracks, and flames. You are so right that this issue affects more than porn-searchers. I have two gamer clients who are in similar boats. They really hurt when their systems slow down - then they yell for help.

I'd like to switch them to Linux but they are reluctant to stay there. Only one is open to it IF they can still get their games to work seamlessly.
We are experimenting at least.

So far, my best solution is SLED-10, Firefox and an external Router/firewall. I set up dual boot with 3 partitions: SUSE (3 second delay before default boot), XP, and a small DATA partition. Anything to be saved goes to DATA and when the system is too clogged, I walk him through restoring the Linux drive only. Takes about an hour to do it, decreasing as he becomes more familiar (ie. it happens often). Anything written to DATA is scanned by mutiple freeware scanners from windows before being saved there.

Gamers won't give up memory for VM, so virtual solutions aren't available in my case.

So when you find a GOOD solution to the common problem (many of us don't like to admit the number of times we've WISHED for a solution), please post it far and wide. We ALL need it.

by ljackson

I'm glad you started this thread, because my wife is one of those that will click on anything just to get it out of her way so she can see the display. I reload her machine every 2 or 3 months. Really appreciate the suggestions.

by jdclyde

Testing with the gaming information sites? And here I was steeling myself to the "ordeal" of having to make the sacrifice and surf some porn to test this out! ]:) :^0

Just got buried in my "Corporate finance" class, and this weekend is the "Youth hunt" that they let only the minors out dear ( :D ) hunting, so that shoots this week down.

I did get a system to play with. Think it is PIII 500. If it gets trashed, so what.

I need to print off this discussion, because it has a lot of good ideas. Then make a list of the ideas and try the best ideas one at a time.

This would fit in the new blog format Jay was talking about. Will have to contact him and see when that would start up. The one thing I don't like about the blogs is it not showing up under the "recent posts by my contacts" list. Maybe that will change.

After I have this going, I have been wanting to build a linux gaming system for a long time! Would be a good time to get back into WoW. (dispite Mae's little video. I am still trying to find out how to become a member! :D )

by safesax2002

Instead of using Knoppix or another live Linux CD, since he doesn't want to use linux, use BartPE. It still uses Firefox (if you add it to the image, I think) and you can add Anti-virus, Spybot, and MANY other things. Then when there is an update to Firefox or something work a CD, just burn him a new CD. Or burn two copies on a CD-RW and then you won't go through a ton of CDs.

Result: His "safety" with minimal effort from you!

by jdclyde

a slave HD that is FAT32 that could be mounted by either.

Biggest concern would be to scan drive BEFORE he goes back to windows.

If I ask him to change OS's, the answer will be "no". If I don't TELL him it is a different OS it just might work. Get him using it before he realizes what he is using.

I did this with OpenOffice recently. We do not use MS Office, but the Lotus Smartsuit. It works great, but there are people that send and receive files from outside the company that are all MS.

For a zero level user (head of accounting) I simply told her I installed the most recent version of "Office". She is using it just fine. B-)

What they don't know, doesn't bother them.

by netgeek84

Another possible option would be to try using VMware or something of the sort. By creating a virtual machine just lock that down as tight as possible and have him use that when he wants to search porn.
If something happens to get on it, which is very likely no matter how many spyware, antivirus, etc. programs you have or how secure you try to make it, no big deal just wipe that virtual machine and create a new one.

by cynrig

Installed on a clean OS, it doesn't matter what the user downloads and installs, the next time the system is rebooted it reverts to the clean image. The only way to save ANYTHING is onto another drive. You can find it at www.faronics.com and it costs less than $25.

by twistedadmin

You are entirely too anal (no pun intended) about this. The guy is an acquaintance/friend... not a bonified 'client', hence the beer-for-work agreement.

As for 'child porn'... how would you 'come across' it on the hard drive? Do you generally use thumbnails in Windows Explorer and actively search through folders? Sounds like someone who's got a bit of a voyeuristic nature.

by frank

Maybe you should take a harder look at who your friends are. I had a customer who had a "fetish" for porn. Every Week it was the same 'ol thing', as all the work was onsite, I went there weekly. Once as I was walking in, a hooker was walking out. I decided immediatly that I wanted nothing to do with him anymore. Problem Solved

by johnny.burgos6

Using Spybot S&D to immunize the system, McAfee for virus protection and to protect with unknown virus's which is Heuristics scanning, make the hosts file read only, use supercleaner to clean any cookies and files associated with where he has been, a popup blocker such as google and zonealarm to block incoming requests he should be fine. He may still get one or two spyware but using all these tools will help protect him to the utmost. Good luck.

by techexec2

[i]"Testing with the gaming information sites?"[/i]

No, nothing so exciting or fun. Just software testing.

-----

[i]"And here I was steeling myself to the "ordeal" of having to make the sacrifice and surf some porn to test this out!"[/i]

I [i]know[/i] this is going to be a difficult sacrifice for you. But, I'm sure that your commitment to professionalism will help you to conduct a thorough test of the new system from start...to finish! :^0

by pmshah9

Although live OS cd would be ideal, I think in the original post he made it clear that the client was not ready for Linux.

All that needs to be done is prepare a BartPE boot disk minimised & so configured that run from ram, uses local disk partition, auto runs the browser & probably logs into the favourite site.

Other option would be to create a dual boot system with minimum installation - some thing like eXperience. You only need to ensure that all other partitions are hidden & you have a gdost image for restore. This way his settings will be saved & there will not be any issue of cleaning up the disk. Just restore the ghost image.

If you use Firefox with MozBack utility you will not have any problems in restoring the login settings/passwords either.

by gigabitch

Not a lot of profit for malware developers writing for an OS that has gone by the wayside.
He can pick-up an old iMac, or whatever, for a song and that way, he can keep his "real" computer secure for banking, surfing ("regular" surfing ;) etc.
Welcome to the insane world of balancing rights with responsibility.
TLComp has a valid point, guys. We are professionals, not just 17 year-old neighborhood hackers. With degrees, certifications and professional designations, you cross over the fine line between helping people to operating under the color of authority. You owe it to your client to explain the full impact of any technical issue, as you are able to understand it.
Say he begins to experience elevated unsolicited spam as a result of his hobby. Some of it will put remailers on his hard drive and send porn (in the background via sendmail, not in his mail client where it would be in his "sent" box) to everyone in his address book.
What are you going to tell him, that the stork brought it?
What if he has addresses in his address book like his nieces and nephews? His mom? His boss? You and your company?
Ripples in the pond from the stone "innocently" tossed in the center can reach pretty far :)
Put him on a computer/OS that has no sendmail built in, no email programs on it, nothing but the browser and whatever webcam or *editing* programs he requires and be done with it.
It's not a moral issue. It's a professional one, and clients depend on us to advise them about things they don't know that they DON'T know about using technology.

by pmshah9

This I believe would be ideal for your client. It is a multisession Live Linux CD. Everything he installs /saves/downloads get written back to the cd/dvd & are available at the next boot just like in a hdd. If you go the DVD route you would not need to remaster the dvd for a couple weeks at least.

Does not need HD installation & runs entirely from ram. If you make a swap partition available it will literally fly. Invluded utilities will fulfill 95 % of his requirements.

by pmshah9

Do yu realise the kind of machine required to run vmplayer - freeware - at a reasonably decent rate?

I recommend stripped down version of BartPe customised to the clients liking.

Else multisession Puppy linux LiveCD with USB stick for satorage. Check it out. It will really meet the bill.

by gsg

Create a VM and have him do his "surfing" on that. When he gets "infected", he can blow that VM away, and put the copy on there.

Side comment: That's just gross

by unclerob

why would you even bother with this,
is a case of beer really worth it - even in Canada where the beer is expensive it wouldn't be worth the hassle of this kind of job.

Strange one indeed... If you really must help this guy, forget the win2k machine, M$ will be ending support for it soon and how much can you really lock it down, have him upgrade that machine to winxp pro so that your efforts in maintaining these machines won't be different. Install antivirus software, anti-malware software, a decent firewall product, have him run in restricted user mode but obviously give him admin login credentials so if he does want to install stuff he can't just "run as" and work accordingly, and let the chips fall where they may.

If he's really a good friend why would he bother you with this nonsense, plus what if your kids were to find out what you were doing, even if they're old enough to understand that you aren't doing any of this questionable surfing yourself (we're all adults here so who cares if you do or don't) - I wouldn't want them to mention any of this work in all of it's details to the ex (kids have a way of spilling the beans sometimes), that could only mean trouble for you, people hear this stuff and will spin it loose in every degree imaginable. No matter how innocent the intent it just doesn't look right to anyone not directly involved.

You said it yourself you don't have time to mess with this anymore now that you've got your boys full time again, if you need an excuse use the kids as one - tell the guy you're sorry but parenting is a full-time gig and you just can't help him with no offense intended: it's a real excuse not something you have to drum up and it gets you off the hook doing this kind of "non-profit" work and free's up your time with your kids and for actual profit work.

Just my 0.02 cents bro, take it anyway you like, just looking after your best interests.

Let me know how it works out.

by snowhawk

This is a thread about PC security. You can leave the judgements about the origin of the thread behind, as it applies to all aspects of browsing.

I have found that a router with a firewall, Zone Alarm Pro, Spybot S&D, AdAware, and Norton AV, and NEVER using IE to browse anything that can be seen in another browser, has kept my home network pretty secure. I also tend to keep an eye on running tasks with Taskinfo from Iarsn, and Google anything that looks odd in the task list. I fully immunize with S&D and try to do full scans with S&D, AdAware, and Norton AV weekly.

Setting up a False persona to use as a substitute for your own personal information can be handy. That way you simply have to reference a prepared or memorized list for info if you want to use a site that requests personal information. That's also handy for the many newspaper and information sites that now require registrations.

I found that browsing with Opera, with the redirect notification option enabled helps as well. It will stop a redirect and give a link to continue if you want. I like the disconnect button in the status bar at the bottom of Netscape. That was a great help in the days before Popup blockers when you could easily find yourself in Popup hell.

It is a good idea to avoid sites that demand Credit Card details for things like age verification. There is much on the web that is free and free from entry hinderences like that. All this can be found with a simple Google search. If that site has content that you decide is worth the risk and you are giving them your CC number, you need to believe that you are going to be charged. There are age verification services available that charge a small fee and are basically front doors to affiliated sites. There are sites that just aggregate samples, and provide links to pay services. The better ones have ways to report sites that try to infect or have bad practices otherwise. It's best to keep your eyes open (like that will be a problem) and try to judge sites as you would any online retailer. Does the site work? Are there broken links? Do the links take you to other sites? Are there redirects when you try to get to another part of the site? Have you heard about problems with this particular site/retailer?

The popularity of such content is undeniable, and is evidenced by its proliferation, so obviously many people want that content. The British version of the show Coupling had a great scene where one of the main characters gives a great impassioned monologue about how we have turned the Internet into a huge database of pictures of women's bottoms. It was one of the funniest things I had ever seen. Adult content web sites now also seem to be a crucible in which to test PC security configurations, much as it was a good way to test bandwidth in the early days of the web.

by unclerob

Seriously, I think it's pretty much understood we're discussing PC security here. I may have gone off on a tangent in one of my points but I don't think I was preaching from the pulpit about morality so no need to start a discussion on that or title a response saying that I did that.

ZoneLabs makes a good firewall product, so I'll agree with you there. Unfortunately that's where it probably stops. They may be good for cleaning up fluff from light internet use but Spybot & Ad Aware are no where nearly sufficient at removing the kind of spyware that show's up on pc's that are used in the manner that JD started this discussion about. You're fooling yourself if you think those apps keep you secure. Plus if you fully immunize with Spybot as you mentioned, you'll probably prevent this user from accessing a certain number of questionable sites - the user in question wants unfettered access to everything. Norton AV is just crap, with so many alternatives out there I'm surprised that people still use it. Norton & McAfee are both product's I'll no longer use on any of my pc's. If you're looking for free, Grisoft makes AVG Free for personal use, if you don't mind paying for a little better, their paid versions offer even better protection & more functionality - their software also doesn't eat up system resources like Norton AV does. I believe Grisoft also own's Ewido which makes a decent anti-spyware product, Ewido Anti-Malware, pick it up & use it, it's very good and I believe they offer a free version or at least a long lived trial version. Webroot's Spysweeper is also an excellent product, I highly recommend it. PrevX also makes a great app for this. Also, don't forget to use HiJackThis.exe, a great product for finding out what's loading up on your machine during bootup, and you definitely need some tools for scanning & removing rootkits if the machine is going to be used as mentioned. That's just the tip of the iceberg - also don't bother scanning for spyware in regular windows mode, you're just spinning your wheels, spyware scans & removal need to be performed in windows safe mode - it's the only way to guarantee finding as much internet 'fluff' as possible.

I've used Firefox & Opera but still return to IE, IE7 is quite good although alot of sites don't show up properly in it, it's a much more secure surfing environment than was ever available in IE.

I never tested bandwidth using the methods you described: web based applications, mainframe access over WAN connections, email, video conferencing and multiplayer gaming (anyone remember the 1st DOOM?) tested bandwidth just fine, I don't ever remember using a test like surfing questionable websites as a metric for bandwidth testing, I don't think it's a great test for pc security either.

- just my 0.02 cents cdn, feel free to agree/disagree

rob,wpg

by jdclyde

As I do need to be able to protect my real users at work, the more I learn about this, the better. If I can harden a windows system for this use, with the restrictions I have placed on me, I should be able to protect my work users that HAVE to stay secure.

I always have time to learn more about my job of protecting my users, I just don't have time to keep doing wipes and reloads. Don't learn anything from that, so it is of little value to me.

Does that better explain where I am coming from and why?

Are you going to tell me no one you know EVER goes to a porn site, or just that you don't talk about it? How many times have you had to clean up a system, and you can tell it is toast from porn? The only difference is, I know what I am facing instead of having the user lie to my face and me having to pretend like I don't know they are being dishonest with me? Which really is better?

What do you think?

by unclerob

but I just feel it's like comparable to testing out a bullet proof vest to see how secure it will keep you in the event that you are shot at or playing with fire and hoping you don't get burnt. No thanks, I'll remove myself from the situation and leave it at that.

If I work on a user's/friend's winxp pc (soon to be vista), updating, securing & cleaning it to the point where it's brand new again, I also go the extra effort of resizing the main ntfs partition in today's uber huge harddrives and creating a 2nd partition (10-20gb or whatever size is required to hold the drive image & drivers and user data) where I can store a drive image of this system in it's current clean state. If this person farts around on this pc and causes it to become unusable to the point where when they run anti-spyware/virus tools to clean it and it doesn't help, I just backup personal data (my documents, pic's, tunes, etc.) and re-image the pc, 10-20 min later (maybe less if you're running a speedy SATA drive in your machine) and the pc is new again, copy over the personal user data, download some windows updates, update the drive image and that's it until the pc bites the dust again.

Yes that's a cop-out but it's also alot more efficient, because you can literally spend several hours to a few days (taking into account we all work and have personal lives after work which require our time and then have to find time to do this work) cleaning the crap out of a pc that's been used for nothing good.

Trust me I'm not judging you or anyone else, it's got nothing to do with that - I'm just saying that it's alot of wasted effort protecting pc's from the fluff they accumulate when surfing questionable websites. I've done it too much and it's just wasted effort because the same people do the same things to their pc's, the cycle won't stop so you either keep banging your head on the wall and do something different.

How secure can any pc be in today's internet/always connected environment, if anyone thinks they can truly protect a pc out there from every risk present & available on the internet they're just fooling themselves - no such thing as a 100% secure pc unless it's disconnected from the net and powered off for good!

At my workplace we use software by Websense which is a company that specializes in internet filtering & security software. In a nutshell it pretty much prevents users from going to those "questionable" websites, if you try to access a site that's been flagged as innappropriate you're redirected to a page that tells you that you've been blocked from accessing that site because it falls under a specific category of sites not deemed appropriate. If you block the ability of getting to these sites, you stop the pc problems caused by these sites.

Rule of thumb, prevention is always easier than the cure.

Since in your specific case this isn't an option, why not just download & install microsoft virtual pc on this person's pc's and let him surf the net in those virtual environments, seriously I can't think of anything safer than that. Create a virtual machine and a copy of that virtual machine, when he toasts one of those VM's, turf it and use the backup VM and so on & so forth.

Anti-spyware software will never be a solution, you need several different utilities to hopefully catch 90% of the fluff on your machines, same thing with Anti-virus software. Zonelab's firewall software is good and free for home use but no firewall software is perfect so that isn't a solution either.

In school, they won't teach how to secure a pc in an environment where user's are allowed to download crap and surf questionable sites because as much as people don't want to admit, there's no market for that - home user's usually don't have an IT dept living with them at home to take care of their pc's. It's assumed that in the corporate world that user's won't use their pc's like they do at home.

Maybe you've discovered a niche you can turn into a business opportunity. Setup a new pc, secure it as much as you can and then purposely use the machine for those questionable purposes, if you can secure it to the point where the pc isn't buggered up with internet filth & fluff then maybe you can teach classes to regular home user's on how to do this or charge decent money to secure pc's just for this type of personal use. It may not be my cup of tea but maybe there's a demand for this and it isn't being met.

I would never question your motives or abilities JD, I hope I never came across that way to you with my original post. When you get past your incredible sense of humor (just kidding, just kidding), you're actually a pretty good guy to talk to, TR wouldn't be the same without you - I've told you that before.

If you do find a method of locking down that pc while giving that user all the freedom to do whatever he pleases on that pc, let me know what you did to accomplish this - I'd be interested in hearing about what worked and what didn't work.

take it easy....
rob,wpg

by tufop

That's like saying Central Intelligence Agency.

It's an oximoron. There is no such thing as "safely surf porn". If he is in the USA many sites considered "porn" sites are engaging in illegal activity so if you assist him and he goes to a site considered "illegal" you have made yourself culpable. It's not like you help someone setup their computer and you have no idea what their using it for. This guy is telling you he is playing in dangerous waters and wants your help. You have been forewarned my friend and I use that moniker very loosely.

by jdclyde

you are never really safe, just safe-ER.

As for illegal, I think you have been sniffing glue.

Just because someone says they are surfing porn, first of all, does not mean the user is doing anything illegal.

second, if someone missrepresents what they are doing, it does not put me at fault.

If you KNOW someone is doing something illegal, that would be different.

Just like if I were a mechanic and I work on your car before you use it as a get-away car. Not my fault, not my problem.

Enjoy the glue.

by tufop

If you KNOW someone is doing something illegal, that would be different.

Those are your words. So when this guy gets busted with 300GB of kiddie porn pictures and he tells the cops, gee I thought it was legal because the guy from the computer shop set it up for me so I wouldn't have any problems.

This guy is saying he wants to surf porn sites and he says "there are no children in the house so it's ok". The red warning lights should be flashing, whistles should be going off and this guy is crazy to setup a computer for the specific reason to safely surf porn sites.

Your example of cars is not a logical example because the owner of the computer has said he wants his system setup so he can safely surf porn.

....as far as glue is concerned you should really growup and engage in an adult discourse. Of course you could be 12 and the stupid glue remarks are expected and make perfect sense.

by jamesrl

Get over yourself.

The vast majority of porn sites are legal. Legal in the US, and many other places.

You may not like it. Fine. Get off your high horse and get out of other people's business.

JD is no more culpable than the person in the walmart who sold a someone a gun which subsequently gets used as a crime.

James

by kiltie

"Although live OS cd would be ideal, I think in the original post he made it clear that the client was not ready for Linux"

In fact he said "I tried talking him into a linux distro, but he was not interested."

A Linux LiveCD is not the same thing as a Linux distro. No need to do anything "Linux" at all, just boot from CD to RAM, straight to a desktop, looking very similar to a Windows Desktop, fire up a browser, Firefox, for example, and surf away!

One of the Puppy Live CD versions, looks almost exactly like XP, even has the Bliss wallpaper!!

Worth a try imho, demo one for him JD?

by tig2

How is Puppy Live different from Linux Live? Or is it different?

The reason I ask is that I want to move off MS and into a Linux wourld but want to test before I toast the HDD on my current machine. Looking for a Linux that I can "fly before I buy" so to speak. I also want to be fairly comfy with it before I am committed to it. And I have software that I will need to test.

I aplolgise if I sound ignorant- haven't worked with any of the 'nix distros for awhile and while I think it is the right direction, I want to have some hands on with the solution first.

Thanks in advance!

by kiltie

There is a lot of info Tig, maybe a few links will help you?

http://www.puppylinux.com/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puppy_Linux

http://www.desktoplinux.com/articles/AT6545156120.html

http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/7052

Read a few of those to get an idea, follow up on links if you wish, if you are like me at all, you will spend days happily tracking all the info down.

I am currently in the process of evaluation a few dozen Linux LiveCDs, so far Puppy has come out on top, with Knoppix 2nd, and others in my shortlist are Ubuntu, Debian, Feather, PCLinuxOS, Slax, WinLinux and Dam Small Linux (DSL).

One final Link for you is FrozenTechs LiveCd List

http://tinyurl.com/jhp9y

I am now testing about a dozen of the various Puppy flavours/variants, one day soon I hope to post an article about Linux LiveCDs.

(but TRs link on articles is dead and they are not answering mail - I got an automated response to one query, saying to expect a response in 24 hours - that was over 10 days ago)

by pmshah9

It is a Lie Linux distribution. ISO is just under 65 mb. It keeps the session open when you write the iso to cd. The cd need not be an RW.

What ever work you do, download files,install software or change settings get saved on to the same cd when you finish. Of course you have to boot from a cd-r or dvd-r drive ro save the session. So when you boot the next time everything is exactly the way you when left ended the previous session. No other live version of Linux permits that. When you reach a state when there is no more room to write your additions / changes to the CD it will prompt you to insert a fresh blank CD & write the OS plus the latest info to it. You simply put away the filled up CD for posterity. You can always revert to any earier version as you please.

I personally use a 200 mb rw media which I carry around in my pocket. Works like a charm.

by t313c0mun1s7

You could create a very usable and refreshable Windows XP desktop using Windows PE and Bart PE. This is not Linux, and the OS is read only. He will still have access to the file system on his hard drive, and best yet; if you use the "Ultimate Boot CD for Windows" as a guide you build in anti-virus and anti-malware that can scan and clean his system offline.

by vince21

Http://www.thehun.net

This site is a yellow pages of sort for porn sites wanting to advertise. They post sample pics and list about 500 postings a day with an archive over a year.

If you wish to venture past this use windows Defender to block malware and firewall to protect.

turn up all security on explorer to prompt for Active X control installs and tell him never to install active x controls.

Make sure you have a good updated antivirus and if he doesn't like all that tell him "Vince says to go to hell PERVERT!!"

by jdclyde

I am not looking to provide any of the porn, and has no place in a valid security discussion.

Thanks, but no thanks.

Question, would he see you there (hell)? Sounds like you know the web site well? :0

by dbernor

I dont actually have anything to contribute to the OP's dilema, but I am amazed at how many replys this got. Especially since it references Porn..and not how to stop your users or malicious sites either.

lol...just an observation.

by jdclyde

It is a fact that windows is not a secure environment.

It is also a fact that one of the most hostile places for a Windows PC is out on the porn sites.

If we can find a way to secure a windows system under these conditions, what do you think we could do given company policies and the more hands out in a corporate environment?

Most people took this as the challenge that it was, securing this system. If I had said the user was going to hack/crack sites which are just as dangerious, would it have made the discussion more valid in your mind?

The issue isn't the porn. The issue is the security for a Windows system in a hostile environment.

now looking at it that way, are you really surprised now?

by dbernor

I dont actually have anything to contribute to the OP's dilema, but I am amazed at how many replys this got. Especially since it references Porn..and not how to stop your users or malicious sites either.

lol...just an observation.

by nicknielsen

Personally, I think that graphic violence in a motion picture is much more offensive than graphic sex. So if you have ever watched "Texas Chainsaw Massacre" or Mel Gibson's "The Passion of Christ"...

by maevinn

That thinks violence is a bigger problem than sex. After the 'boob seen round halftime' I suspected that I was the only person on earth more concerned with overt messages of violence than a little extra skin.

by bryan_hill

Hey,

Why not do a combonation of things and install VMWARE onto his workstation, then creating a virtual image of XP or Win 2k. Once its all patched up install deep freeze and the rest of your virus protectors, create a backup copy of the virtual workstation and turn off login to the virutal machine. this way if anything happens to his virutal pc it will not affect his primary image and deep freeze will not lock down his PC to much.

Not sure if this the best method but, its another idea...

by jdclyde

It is really cool that so many here were able to focus on the point of the discussion, securing a system NO MATTER WHAT!

As this is pretty much the "Worst case scenerio", If we can all come up with a working solution for this, we can secure against just about anything. some of the ideas even being able to be used on our work LANs to keep the users runtime high.

by jdclyde

I wouldn't even recognise a hooker when I saw one. :D I have been to the casino "The Soaring Eagle" in Mount Pleasent several times. Had a discussion with people that live in the area and they were complaining about the hookers all over the place. I like to think I am not a backwoods hick, but I had never noticed a single one! :0

As for your opinion of people so you can place judgement on them, I am looking at this as a learning experience on how to secure a workstation. Being a network guy, a lot of this is new, and most "security" for desktop classes only discuss AD, and not stand alone workstations.

The reason I am in TR in the first place is because I DO always get to learn something new.

by hal 9000

I haven't tried it specifically to prevent infection from Porn Sites but it's great for the Sales Staff who are on the road and some have gone as many as 29 days without updating and reminded infection free. Zondex available from here

http://www.apro.com.au/guard.htm

Know the Sales People it's anyone's guess what they get up to when on the road away from home and as their NB's stay free of problems I swear by this product. While I wouldn't totally rely on it for a total security blanket it works a treat for the people who's NB's that I have it on here.

I hope that is of some use

Col

by heml0ck

trying to keep a pc from becoming infected, and trying to clean up traces of illegal activity!
This friend of JD's should be credited for trying to keep is pc up to snuff, not dragged down because he likes to look at pornography.

by tig2

You are absolutely right- I like tracking down good information. Just got a high level overview. Puppy looks to be a good solution- appears to have the stuff I want to use available.

Thanks for all the information and great links! I appreciate them!

by randalbin

I've been using Avast on 4 home computers (XP Home and Win2K) and my daughters XP Pro Laptop in her university dorm room.

I don't think I've ever uninstalled it so I can't speak into that, but I've never had a minutes trouble and have never become infected with anything.

All of these machines also use Windows Defender so that might be helping out with spyware / malware. None of these machines are running an aftermarket firewall or anything. Public interfaces are firewalled with the regular Windows firewall.

by snowhawk

The last half of the 'not a prude' post is spent trying to convince JD that he is better off without friends that use porn, as though that is a measure of their worth.

Thanks for the reviews and recommendations on the security tools. I do use HiJackThis as well, just forgot to mention it. I can't believe that you recommend IE of any flavor to surf for anything, let alone content that lends itself to high risk providers. It is the prime target by a wide margin, not only due to its marketshare, but the apparent ease with which it is exploited.

I do believe that JD's friend wanted to surf porn, not necessarily have unfettered access to everything out there. Seems to be a good idea to avoid sites blocked by a tool like S&D, in fact, that sounds like what was meant by 'safe surfing for porn'.

In the initial explosion of the web, I knew guys at some local ISPs that would test new server installations by setting up some adult oriented sites and throwing a little spam into usenet and see how the system handled it. It was a bit adhoc, but it was a quick and dirty (so to speak) test that could be run over the weekend to see how it handled high demand. Then the bigger ISPs bought them out and now Cox owns everything. I would imagine that larger professional organizations would use a more metric oriented approach to testing now. On the other hand, JD has a bit of a guinea pig in his friend now. That kind of experience can be handy.

by drinkmetoo

Download and install Microsofts' Shared Computer Toolkit for Windows XP. If set up correctly it should answer all this concerns.

Basicly it will wipe(reverts back to a known system configuration) any changes made to the system during his online surfing.

If any of you have ever used a library's internet connection it works just like that. I've installed it in a coffee house, that has a free internet station. It works very well.

Good part of it is that it's FREE.

www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/sharedaccess/default.mspx

Good Luck

by thenose

That sounds like a good idea. - If the client isn't willing to go through some changes or be willing to give up something in order to "surf safely" there's little that a support person can do.

by jimbabwe

I would personally not have any hesitation risking the "bad feelings" by saying "Sorry, pal. You want porn, you're on your own." The old adage is still true: you can't play in the mud without getting dirty. But that's MY ethical/moral standard, and maybe not yours. I just can't think of any redeeming value for porn, and I wouldn't offer to make it easier or safer for someone else to indulge.

by hal 9000

I do a bit of Volunteer work at an Old Folks home across the road from where I live and when a while ago I had more time available I was often in there cleaning up the computers that the Oldies used.

The youngest would be in their late 70's and the computers that are there for the patients use are mostly used to surf porn and the women are by far the worst offenders. I still clean up their computers but far less often than what I used to as I'm busier but one or more of my staff throw in a bit of their time to do this work as like me they get to have a great laugh with the inmates of this institution.

Personally I wouldn't want one of the Little Old Ladies talking down to me with me trying to tell her what she can and can not do in the last years of her life. You are free to have your own narrow bigoted beliefs but as far as I'm concerned as long as [b]No Law[/b] is being broken I really don't care what's a computer is used for. My son who plays games on high end Power User Workstations gets almost as much junk on his computer as the Porn Surfers get and is constantly trying to stay on top of keeping the system clean and he's never been near a Porn Site but the game sites are almost as bad and if you lack the knowledge to lock down a Windows Computer so that it remains usable for the bulk of the necessary transactions that it's used for you are not providing the service that you are charging Professional Rates for [b]Nor are you acting Professionally![/b]

If you lack the ability to act professionally then get the Hell Out of the Industry and let those of us who are interested in helping our customers get on with the job at hand.

I don't have the right or obligation to force my Morals onto others as you appear to be attempting to do here Ossama!

Now I'll bet that you'll be fuming under your Puritan Hat as you are not a nasty Muslim Terrorist but why do you insist on acting like one who known what is better for the masses than they themselves do? Doesn't your society allow a person to do as they please provided their actions do not affect others?

Col

by jdclyde

that people that come off with the "holier than thou" bit are often the ones we see in the tabloids when they get busted for embezzlement or having an affair with their secritary.

by sql_joe

Hal,

Well said! I was having a discussion with a co-worker some time ago, over the gay marraige issue. He was for it to be made illegal. I asked him why, and ultimatly it came down to that is was his beliefs. I said, "so you don't beleive in separation of church and state then?" and he said "well, I guess not". At that point I was ble to point out that neither does the Taliban.

The point is, I may not agree with or beleive in Homosexuality, but if I make a law about it, then I have legislated my morality onto someone else - i.e. I have forced them to follow my religion. This is not what the United States is supposed to be about, something about "Freedom of Religion"....its in the Constitution...remember that?

Anyway, I appreciate your comments Hal,

Thanks,

George

by the truth

My son who plays games on high end Power User Workstations gets almost as much junk on his computer as the Porn Surfers get and is constantly trying to stay on top of keeping the system clean and he's never been near a Porn Site but the game sites are almost as bad and if you lack the knowledge to lock down a Windows Computer so that it remains usable for the bulk of the necessary transactions that it's used for you are not providing the service that you are charging Professional Rates for Nor are you acting Professionally!

by snowhawk

Nice attitude towards others there. Do you also alienate people that don't drink the same beer or use the same OS as you?

How about the cumulative effect of many tech savvy friends helping friends secure their PCs against intrusion and infection? When JD secures his friends machine, that is one less machine in the bot net sending spam to you and me. There is a direct benefit for you. Infintesimal surely, but if you help a friend that views porn, that is twice as good. I work to help my friends secure their own machines and I keep my own clean. At least from the malicious nasties out there, although your opinion may differ on the definition of clean here.

by thenose

I think that Firefox, or Mozilla.

But I've heard that the following three products are the best when run in conjunction with each other.

The anti-spyware software is all free. Download, install and regularly update and run all three of these at the same time. It's the cocktail you
need on your Windows machine for the best defense against spyware:

AdAware (the personal version is fine, but feel free to upgrade)
http://www.lavasoftusa.com/ - download it at http://downloads.com

SpyBot Search & Destroy
http://www.safer-networking.org/ - download it at http://downloads.com

Microsoft Windows Defender (formerly Giant, formerly Microsoft AntiSpyware)
http://microsoft.com/spyware

Info courtesy of http://onlinetonight.com/

by mgordon

The discussion is already PAST the moral stage of whether to help a friend, we are at the stage of HOW to help.

The word "porn" has no legal definition that I know; however, each state very likely has specific definitions of obscenity -- some little detail that must exist for an image to be illegal; and which lacking, no matter how otherwise offensive, is not illegal.

I have encountered people that think Michaelangelo's "David" is pornographic soley because the statue is naked, or nude, depending on your language.

So, those people arguing the morality of "porn" cannot very well know that they are even discussing the same things.

Having said all that, if someone were to ask me the same question, how to safely surf porn, the first thing I would want to know is what he means by "safe". I do not think it can be done; certainly not with the stated parameters (insist on using Windows is the first major problem with the idea).

Even if all you are doing is surfing for the Swimsuit Edition, you could inadvertenly load something illegal into your browser cache and now you have a problem. Where this is likely, running everything from ramdisk has some benefits, but even there, the places you visit are recorded by your friendly neighborhood Domain Name Server and very likely there's a webcache between you and the source and IT is caching everything you do.

by van helsing

Right on TiggerTwo!! May I add to install McAfee's SiteAdvisor plugin... great help if you really want to know how safe is the site you're visiting...

by too old for it

What is legal in Amsterdam is not legal in the US, for instance. Same for parts of the former Soviet block.

Me, I'm a firm believer in removing all restricitons on trade for goods and services that are legal elsewhere.

I'm also a firm believer that the police should go after axe-murderers, rapists, corporate fraudsters and so forth, and leave morality to the church.

by nicknielsen

On a purely advisory basis, I hope. My morality is between my preferred deity and myself; nobody else got any business butting in!

by jdclyde

that there were no kids in the house, to give some background information to the USUALLY intellegent people that would come in here.

Safely surf porn is completely legal in the United States of America. You may have missed the memo.

As was pointed out to the TWO other gents, there has been nothing other than ONE package recommended by Mae, that has anything to do with covering tracks or anything along that line.

There has been NOTHING posted to indicate the User is trying to HIDE anything. They just want a system that will not crash all the time. Sure, MS might think THAT part is illegal, but anyone with a clue that actually read ANYTHING I have posted would be able to logically and clearly see that there is NO indication of anything illegal.

If you have a personal issue about someone that will surf legal porn on their personal computers from the privacy of their own homes, that is your problem.

Yeah, I am 12 years old, and joined TR back in 2000. Bet you wished you were that smart that early, huh?

I tried being logical and reasonable with you, but that approach doesn't seem to work with you.

by tufop

Telling someone to stop sniffing glue is logical or reasonable????

I give up you are the best. Surf that porn and you will see what is legal and what isn't.

Having said that I will turn in my badge.

By the way I was a 2000 alumni myself.

by maecuff

Violence is so much more obscene than sex or bare skin. There isn't anything wrong with sex, unless you were created in a petrie dish(or hatched), you are the result of sex. We're so uptight about the portrayal of procreation, but shootings and decapitations and the like are okay?

by jdclyde

violent sex? I little pain never hurt anyone... :p

Now when you talk about the hackem stackem movies, sure. They are so stupid now that all they do is try to come up with a new way to maim and mutilate the human body. Shock and horror when it should be admire and whore.

by maecuff

whatever you and your friends do up on brokeback mountain is your business.. :)

Have a nice weekend!

by jdclyde

because anyone that has ever read the consitution knows full well that the government can't determine a state religion, Nor interfear with the practice of ANY religion. "Separation of church and state" is something passed on, too and from uninformed people as a way to try to interfear with religion. Look it up sometime and you will find it is taken from a letter Jefferson wrote to a religious group that was afraid of another religion being determined to be the official state religion.

You would also be interested to know that states originally did have offical religions.

Taliban compared to Christian values? Not from this century, or the last or the one before that....

by hal 9000

To tell you what it is that you are going to do. That can be anything at all. Be it me insisting that you have to join the Moonies because I like them and their beliefs would that make you happy?

OH I don't like Booze of any kind so I forbid you to partake of a drink of any alcoholic beverage of any kind no matter what the circumstances so you are prevented from using any Alcohol.

Or I like GWB and insist that you can vote for anyone so long as it's GWB would this please you?

In a Democracy things are supposed to allow [b]Free Will[/b] of the people be that which religion they chose to believe in what if any Booze they drink or use for medical purposes or who they vote for or anything else at all.

Once you remove these you have descended to the level of a Dictatorship be that something like Nepal which is harmless or at the other extreme that Organisation led by Ossama who tells his followers what to do, when to do it, and how to do it.

If it's perfectly fine to be fighting a [b]War on Terror[/b] why then do you attempt to impose the very same things on your fellow citizens that you are saying is bad in the ones that you are fighting?

You're perfectly right on the surface there is no connection but once you drop that right to [b]Freedom[/b] the other rights will soon follow and you'll end up living in the very thing that you are attempting to destroy. It would be like destroying Al-quadia and voting in Ossama as President you would win the battle but loose the war.

While that may be acceptable to you it's unacceptable to me.

Col

by techexec2

Ok, so the word "porn" makes you shudder. But, this thread really isn't about porn. And, it's certainly not about doing anything illegal. Kiddie porn? What? You can do better than that.

WHY STOP AT ILLEGAL?

Why stop at illegal? Let's go for treason! How about safely surfing Al-Qaeda terrorist websites? If you work just a little harder, I'm sure you can think of all kinds of terrible things to pin on this thread about computer security.

STAY ON YOUR MEDS

You really must stay on your meds. This thread is about making a computer safe from malware that is acquired over the web. Porn websites are notorious for this. Game websites too.

READ THE THREAD

You obviously stopped reading after the word "porn". Read the thread. You might learn something about computer security.

by hal 9000

I'm the one with the cameras mounted on all your windows looking in just to make sue you do nothing WRONG. :D

Col ]:)

by hal 9000

And the scary thing is that they don't see anything wrong with these actions. :D

Col

by rtmtech1

There's no way I would help him. You can bow out politely or come up with any excuse you can imagine, but I would not help him. If he accesses any number of illegal sites accidentally or on purpose he will almost certainly name you as an accessory. Do you have a couple extra thousand dollars for a lawyer? That could end up being a very expensive case of beer. Porn sites are notorious for identity theft and if this fate befalls him you can be sure he'll be asking why you did not "protect" him better. This is a losing proposition. There are far more noble causes and uses for your time than this. If he's so eager to wiew porn let him figure it out himself. After his PC is loaded with malware and his credit is ruined he'll start thinking maybe there is a better way for him to spend his time also.

by the truth

After a couple times of helping him, I'd stop doing it. I don't care if someone wants porn, but if they insist on "self-destructive" computing behavior, I'm not going to keep disinfecting them over and over again. It's a waste of my time. Now, if your friend is willing to pay realistic hourly rates...SURF ON !!

by nicknielsen

It's not my fault I was browsing illegally! He's the one who installed the software that allowed me to access those sites. And my ISP is responsible too because they provided a network connection. But it's not [b]my[/b] fault!

Puh-leeze!

And I forgot to wear my aluminum foil helmet and somebody else was controlling my fingers on the mouse!

by maecuff

I do what I want..

I'm gonna try to have a nice weekend. it could be life altering.. we'll see..

by nicknielsen

Politicians! :^0

This year it's Republicans. A decade ago it was Democrats.

Has anybody else ever noticed that Republicans usually get caught with their hand in the cookie jar and Democrats usually get caught with their hands on the cookie? ]:)

by hal 9000

But on the up side you're not the only one that I have to supervise to see what you are doing. :p

I'm currently putting together the [b]Thought Police[/b] to control you lot of miscreants. :^0

Col ]:)

by lederhoden

told him to wear a condom, haven't you? :))

Thank heaven MS don't make condoms - it'd be like wearing a string vest on your joystick.

by vtassone

"Tell me what your end result is and I will find a way for you to get there!" We all know what his end result is!

"I am so tired of wipe and loads!" Time for a disposable keyboard cover, 'Nuff said.

Tell him to rent or buy some good smutt from the local adult store on dvd. It's cheaper than subscribing to the porn sites ;-(not that I would know ;-)and he won't have to worry about the internet going "down".

by the truth

After a couple times of helping him, I'd stop doing it. I don't care if someone wants porn, but if they insist on "self-destructive" computing behavior, I'm not going to keep disinfecting them over and over again. It's a waste of my time. Now, if your friend is willing to pay realistic hourly rates...SURF ON !!

by jdclyde

There have been some people coming up with some good ways to try to secure a windows box that you do not have control over.

We have also seen some that are above such things.

The ones that are above this discussion, is it because they are truly offended by the thought that anyone actually surfs porn?

Is it windows kool-aid drinkers that don't want people discussing the fact of how wide open a windows box is, when doing nothing more than VIEWING a web site?

Of course that idea leads us to the next question, why is ANY system vulnerable to hackers, when all you are doing is viewing a web site?

Some have said to give the user a MAC. Not sure if that is the answer or not, but it seems more and more, having anyone on a windows box is NOT the solution.

Some have tried to derail the security aspects by trying to insinuate illegal activity, regardless of the complete lack of anything that would point to that. I wonder what it is that these people have going on in their lives that equates porn to illegal in their heads right off the bat.

For the people that actually participated in this discussion, you have given me many good ideas. Some after I get done learning on the users PC, will help me in my professional world.

Being a network guy, a lot of this is new, but the more I learn about security, the more interested in it I get. And they get all kinds of cool toys to play with! :D

Thanks for your positive input.

by jdclyde

you mean to try to tell me there has been ANY kind of thought, rational or otherwise? :0

:p

by hal 9000

[b]I'm Right Though![/b]

Incidentally my son is now 33 years old and drives me crazy because he sees computers as play toys. He likes killing Cops in NFS. :^0

Col

by tony hopkinson

There are a lot of virus-ridden applications distributed on P2P. Don't even touch it without a up to date virus checker.

The porn that's available on there includes illegal material and sometimes it's misnamed to disguise the content. There's enough that isn't to turn any parent into a panic stricken mess and possibly put them in jail through ignorance.

The guys who build porn sites put their stuff out as well. So you can end up with videos with links to their sites embedded in them and such like.

Before you know where you are media player has launched IE and they have script kiddie opportunity.

by jdclyde

packages like limewire and such for this?

I completely got out of that when the plug got pulled on Napster.

I had not heard of getting the illegal content when your not looking for it.

by tony hopkinson

I hit porn, ring tones and 'free' mp3 sites. All three are script kidie magnets. Course this was fir my home PC, I'll trust the admin guys at work to come up with a more scientific method. LOL

As a comparison between FF and IE on windows 98 it was very effective.

by tony hopkinson

If JD taught the guy how to surf porn safely, how can he possibly be liable in anyway for what sort of porn the guy surfs ?

When you are wrong just say my bad, you'll get more respect from other professionals.

by tony hopkinson

Ignorance of the law is not a defense. You try "I thought it was legal", practice doing it in handcuffs with a plaintive whine in your voice.
It will make it more credible after they pass sentence.
The guys wants safety from malare not safety from prosecution, if he wanted that he would have to be a moron to let anyone near his computer.
There have been a few of them, but if he was one JD would have already given evidence!

Glue is very bad for you by the way, personally I recommend you stop.