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Using RIP

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18 replies

by cj_mcnix

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Alot of questions.

1. 64 IP address block assigned by ISP.
2. Need another block of 64.
3. ISP can only offer a full Class C block (obviously) NOT contiguous to the original range.
4. Idiot boss will not listen to me and change over routers and printers and statically assigned IP addresses to the Class C range. "Too much work, too much expense to client".
5. All workstations are W2K. PDC is currently pushing DHCP and is an NT 4.0 SP6a box.

Q1: Is my only "easy" solution RIP?

Q2: How will this affect access to resources by IP (example: How does W2K COMP at 192.x.x.x communicate with JetDirect on PRINT1 at 64.x.x.x. Can W2K COMP at 192.x.x.x browse the network on 64.x.x.x? Do I need to make a static entry somewhere? And of course, where?).

Q3: What about PCAnywhere and the internet? (Internet router is at 64.x.x.x. What would I need to do to allow W2K COMP at 192.x.x.x to receive PCAnywhere transmissions. Another static entry? Can static entries have ports specified?)Q4: *I* know it's possible, but my boss needs to see it in writing: can I host both subnets on the same hubs?

Q5: And finally, do I even NEED the ISPs block of IPs? If I use RIP, are the IPs still considered public ips?

18 replies

by mike mullins

I'll try to address them all.
1. I'm sure you meant NAT (Network Address Translation), the answer is yes.

2. You'll need a static route entry in the router between the two different networks, (if you don't use NAT).

3. Static entries aren't port specific, but you can apply an Access Control List (ACL) to the router to control the ports between the two different networks.

4. No, you can't have two different networks on the same Hub, on the same switch, Yes.

5. No you don't need the ISP's block of IP's, and it's actually more secure to not use public IP's. The only public IP you need is the one connected to the Point of Presence (your ISP).

Good Luck,
0bytes

by mike mullins

If you give me an idea of the devices you have to work with, I can map it out and provide some general routing help.

by cj_mcnix

I don't mean NAT, I mean actually configuring a server with 2 NICs and enabling RIP. What I have to work with is a pain in the ass. Main office has a T1 on a Cisco2600 (which I have no access to). Satellite office connects to main office via Cisco1720s as a BRIDGE. The idea is (since we have no access to the Cisco equipment) to leave the Ciscos, printers, and satellite office IPs untouched. We need to free up the original block in the Main office so we can add ANOTHER satellite office in the near future. Therein lies the whole mess. Any other ideas? (I have marked your answer unacceptable only because I don't any other way to add these comments.)

by shmaltz

1. No. Assuming you can connect your existing router to the subnet. You can use static routes on the router that's now configured as the default gatway for your network, so the router(default gateway) will forward all requests to the new range to the right Interface.
2. W2K has it's own Routing table (like any other IP enabled machine). You can view your Routing table by typing at a command prompt "route print". In a regulare configuration (meaning, that there are no static routes), every IP Address thats not on the local network (which BTW is determined by using the net mask), is forwarded to the Default gateway, since Windows IP assumes that the gatway knows the route to the target IP Address. If however your Windows machine is configured with a static entery for that IP Address, windows will use the gateway in the Static entry as the gateway for the target IP Address. That's why when you enter the static route on the existing router, any machine on 192.x.x.x will able to reach thesubnet without any additional configuration.
3. I assume your router is now configured with static IP Addresses for any computer that wants to host a PCAnywhere sesion. Very unsecure, however you should be able to do the same with your new range.
4. Why not? the only difference on using 2 hubs will be the broadcasting scope. Since both are open to the public it doesn't matter.
5. Yes they are considered public IP Address, since RIP (or what I said in 1) will allow anyone to locate the other range. It doesn't care where the requests come from. In fact without NAT even your 192.x.x.x is exposed by RIP, however, if you don't use NAT your computers on the 192.x.x.x segment will not be able to connect to the Internet, since there is no Source IP Address because the Internet doesn't include any routing for the 192.x.x.x segment.

by shmaltz

RIP is usefull when you have 2 routers connected to 2 different networks that have to share routes, which is how the Internet routes it's packets (although they might be using a different protocol).
I don't understand why It's too much work to relocate to new Class C range? You mention there is a DHCP server, just reconfigure the DHCP Server, restart the Clients and they have the new IP (I'm not sure about printers on this one, but W2K re-requests a DHCP lease on each reboot).

by cj_mcnix

I agree with you on your comment about changing the DHCP scopes, however, the decision has been made by management NOT to change over the equipment. He simply will not bend unless it's the LAST resort.

I may have been unclear about what I need todo. Please see the above comment to see what I'm trying to do. Your comment on #5 is a little troubling to be however. Are you saying that even if I config a 192.x.x workstation with a gateway address of the RIP server's 2nd NIC, I won't be able to hit the internet via the Cisco router at 64.x.x?
(I have marked your answer unacceptable only because I don't any other way to add these comments.)

by shmaltz

In theory if you use 192.x.x.x you can't access the Internet. Since the target machine can't send packets back to you. However, with NAT (and I'm sure that you have somewhere a NAT server, I guess it's the Cisco 2600) you could since the public IP Address of the NAT server is the one thats used to access the Internet.

In your case that you are trying to link a few networks together, The only option might be to use RIP or any other Routing protocol. You can however configure the Cisco Routersto the job for you and you wont need RIP installed on a Windows Mahcine. After all that what a router is made for. If you don't know how to configure Cisco hire someone that does. In the long run using Cisco will be much cheaper, since its much morestable.

by shmaltz

After re-reviewing:
I'm not sure based on the info you gave. You can you give an exact network topolegy?
I want to know the public and private range used at the T1 office, the public and private range used at the remote office, and where you want to distribute the new Class C range.
Also what solution is used to link the 2 locations? VPN?

by cj_mcnix

For obvious security reasons, I cannot give you the IP ranges.

As for the network, it's a simple 1 server network. The PDC is an NT 4.0 server providing DHCP to all users. The IP addresses are all public, so there is NO NAT running. The Class C block we will be given is also a public range, so again, NO NAT.
The two offices are connected by a BRIDGE, so the IP addresses are still within the original range with no alterations to the subnet mask on BOTH sides.

I simply want to change the IP addresses in the main office hosting the PDC to the new block of IPs, but leave the printers and routers alone. I would like to do this by adding a 2nd NIC to the PDC and enabling RIP. My desired result is:

1) The PDC's 1st NIC is set for 64.x.x.x. It can still communicate with the printers and the gateway CISCO router at 64.x.x.x., as well as the remote office WORKSTATIONS.
2) The PDC's 2nd NIC is set for 195.x.x.x. It can communicate with all the WORKSTATIONS set in that range in the MAIN office.
3) Everyone can still access resources and the internet, regardless of being in the 64.x.x.x or 195.x.x.x range.

by shmaltz

Sorry I didn't mean the actual Range, what you gave (195.x.x.x and 64.x.x.x is good enough).
I assume that the bridge between the remote office and the main office creates one logical network between the main office and the remote office.
I also assume that the 2600 router is set for the Default gatway and not the NT Server.

You have 2 options to set this up:
1. Since I understand that you will be using the same hub for both IP ranges, You don't need a second NIC on the NT Server. You canjust add a second IP Address for the existing NIC, Just go to the advanced TCP/IP Properties on the NT Server and add the second IP Address. Also make sure that IP Forwarding is enabled on the NT Server. Which is also done in the TCP/IP properties. Now you can do either of the 2 ways: A) Create a script that will add a static route on every workstation on how to reach the new range, for the gateway enter the NT Server. B) Change the defautl gateway on the workstations to point to the NT Server.However if you go A, If your printers have to print to the new IP Range than I don't know if it will work, since I don't know if you can add Static Routes to the printers. With B however, you can just change the Default Gateway ont he printers as well.

2. You can leave the NT server as it is. On the 2600 Router give it an additional IP address for the new range, then define the routes on the 2600 router. This is much easier than 1, since it doesn't involve any changes on the clients. Also the printers don't need any reconfigurations. However it means configuring the 2600.

by shmaltz

There is also another problem since you are using 2 IP Ranges on the same broadcasting zone, How do you plan on setting up DHCP? If you dont use 2 different hubs (which if you do, doesn't change anything of the above, besides that you will need anadditional interface for the new IP Range, either on the NT Server (1), or on the 2600 router(2)) the DHCP request will look the same for NT for any client (There is ways to configure it based on the MAC address but thats even more complicated than changing the Printer configuration).

by shmaltz

In your configuration RIP will not even help. RIP is made for a configuration where you have at least 2 machines that are configured as simple routers (gateways, that are connected to 2 interfaces, and clients on interface 1 always contact this machine to reach any computer that it is not local based on the net mask), that are connected to at least 3 different logical networks, and you want both of the gateways to be aware of the IP Address that are on the other side of the other gateway. RIPwill share any routing table that exists on the other RIP enabled machine.

by cj_mcnix

Your first added comment has me a little confused.

The remote office is, as you surmised, operating as though the workstations were plugged into the hubs at the main office. HOWEVER, the remote workstations and the printers at the main office areall STATICALLY ASSIGNED. ONLY the main office WORKSTATIONS receive DHCP.

If I was to shut down the 64.x.x DHCP scope on the NT server, these items would be unaffected.

If I replaced the scope with the 195.x.x scope, would it provide DHCP service to the main office workstations without issue?

I am also embarassed to say that I forgot to mention that there is an Exchange 2000 server hosting i-net mail as well. This unit has a static 64.x.x.x address, and is a Win2K server. Will the newlyappointed 195.x.x workstations still be able to access the Exchange server?

by shmaltz

With the second prapagraph in your comment, you solved the DHCP problem, since one range is not going to go onto the DHCP Server.
If you replace the DHCP Scope for your clients there shouldn't be any problems, on next reboot (or by releasing and renewing the lease using ipconfig), they should have an IP Address with the new scope.
As for the Exhchange Server:
I assume that you are asking this provided you are getting rid of the 64.x.x.x range, but you still want to keep it on the Exchange server. You will still have to use either of the ways for routing that we discussed before.
If you are not getting rid of the 64.x.x.x range than the Exchange Server is no different than any other Node on the 64.x.x.x range.

by shmaltz

I may not have access to the Internet for the coming 4 days (until Sunday). So please allow time to respond (if you will post any comments). Thanks.

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