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vista...whats all the hate for?

By Norehca ·
Its starting to get to me a bit. I respect your opinions, but im seeing alot of hate towards windows vista. I see nothing wrong with it. It works perfectly fine on my computer. It only took me a couple days to totally learn vista, so why are people talking about relearning vista. Yes it doesnt support certian programs and drivers. I expected so. What about the manufacturers of your hardware? I think they should be making drivers for vista. I think they are to blame as well. They knew it was coming, video card companies like ati and nvidia were ready. they even had drivers for the beta versions of vista! ANd i also dont think windows Vista is like mac osx. I have used it quite a bit before and i dont see like any similarites. It seems to me Microsoft is adding features that people like that are in other OS's.

Ive used Windows VIsta and i love it. Ive only had minor problems wih sound card drivers amd a few apps. I expected this and so i simply dual booted my system with xp and vista. ANd eventually Vista will take out XP and become the standard, just like xp took over 2000. Why do you hate vista? im not sure i get it.

For the sake of discussion why do you like or dislike vista?

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While you are quite correct

by HAL 9000 Moderator In reply to vista...whats all the hat ...

Do you remember what XP was like when it was first released?

Very little worked with it and M$ Sales people where at best foolish and told major companies that they didn't need any Servers with XP Pro. This was wrong but M$ sold the software and told them how to setup the systems which didn't work. 1 Government Department bought a 2,500 LAN Setup without a single server in the entire place and when their IT Section couldn't get the newly installed LAN to work they farmed out the work.

I got handed that one and it was a mess to say the least. I looked at what had been attempted told them that they needed several Server Applications and left it at that hoping that they would go away. Unfortunately they didn't and rang me back several days latter with the correct number of W2K servers and wanting me and my company to fit them so that things worked.

Of course because they had ripped out the old and replaced with the new they had been unable to do any work for close to a month when I first saw that mess and then expected that a few servers could be installed and setup within a day so they could get back to doing some work. It didn't happen the way that they wanted it to happen but eventually it worked like it was supposed to and then along came SP1 which required a replacement Product Key as the original one was reported as a Pirate one. So after calling M$ and eventually proving that they had sold this product they eventually supplied a new Product Key which had to be changed on each computer that took 11 of us 4 days over an Easter Break one year.

Then SP2 came out and exactly the same thing happened but this time the message that there was Pirate Software only came up after SP2 was installed. Then a few weeks latter WGA became available and the same thing happened again just 14 days after we had finished changing the old product keys over to the newly supplied ones. So that was another waste of time.

But what makes this even worse is the Staff turnover in this department so after the Bureaucrat messed up they where promoted and when the SP1 fiasco arrived several System Admins Latter they where under the impression that we had supplied everything so they rang M$ Anti Piracy Hot Line and reported us for selling Pirate copies of Windows. Then when that was eventually fixed up exactly the same thing happened when SP2 was released again several System Admins latter but this one got really upset when it was proved that her department had messed up and when WGA came up with the same message she reported us again. That was 3 reports to M$ Legal about a major Pirate Software Swindle and I'm sure that the nice friendly woman only reported us the third time because she had been proved wrong when she insisted that we had supplied everything.

Another New System Admin who insisted on running all the Workstations with the Live Update Disabled which is the right thing to do but this one failed to apply any updates for 3 months and every XP Desktop locked up on the same morning claiming that it was loaded with Pirate Software and no way in. The only available fix after again dealing with M$ Legal Department was to apply a In Place Install so every Patch since SP1 was wiped out and required reinstalling.

They have just moved to a Vista Network with 2003 Servers and I've dropped them like a Hot Potato as I want absolutely nothing at all to do with them ever again.

Vista works OK on a single low end unit that doesn't require much in the way of work to do but has many problems when networking the system up and then after the Hard Sell by M$ Office 2007 Accounting Package doesn't work with Vista when it runs perfectly on XP.

Vista like any new M$ product will eventually be the standard to work with unless M$ really annoys its customers and they insist on moving to a different platform but right now it leaves a lot to be desired and for anything more than a Home Play Toy is a Massive Problem that is unneeded.

You never need an accountant leaning over your shoulder demanding to have a LAN up and running in 5 minutes because they are loosing Hundreds of Thousands of $ per Hour and currently that is what Vista does.

When Home Users are having problems with simple things like Printers & Scanners that are less than 2 months old it's not something that you need to place into a Mission Critical Work Environment where down time is measured in lots of money and that new printer bought last week will not work with the new OS that they want to use.

When XP was first released 98 consistently outsold it for the first 18 months till M$ removed 98SE from sale. Even now I see people lining up to buy unopened copies of 98SE by the hundreds. I can not help but wonder where these are coming from but they are readily bought and the people selling them can not get enough of them.

Personally at this point in the Development Cycle of Vista I don't trust it enough to even recommend it to any of my customers so we are waiting till the major bugs get worked out and more software becomes available as well as some Mission Critical Hardware to some specialised business.

Incidentally I bought a 5 Licence Volume License Copy of Vista Ultimate with Software Assurance when it was first available. Currently only one copy has been installed and even then it's not working right so I like many others will wait till it either starts to work or companies demand something different before rushing out to recommend it to any one particularly the 64 Bit Version which is at best a mess.


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by lindfalas In reply to While you are quite corre ...

Why are you blaming XP to be foult and Miscrosfot when its just stupied people you have stumble across?
I have done alot of installation, both hardware and software for company and never have this kind of problem.
One company I did a swith from W2k to XP pro on all computers( most new) and a new server and hock all the gaqdget for there radio and GPS stuff in just 4 hours downtime.
They did run this for about 3 years without any problem.
The problemn that has been is only user problem, not the Server or XP fault.

SP2 and the licens stuff was a bit problem, but if you know what you doing it was not any problem. ITs so easy to fix before any update is done..


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I Blame M$

by HAL 9000 Moderator In reply to well

Because they Originally gave the wrong advice to the Government Department Concerned when XP first came out You Don't Need Servers With This Product!

Then they continually made the supplied Product Keys invalid for future updates so it took a very long time to change all the XP Product Keys Over. OK from the first install to the release of SP1 and then to SP2 was a while but in a matter of a week between supplying a new product Key for SP2 and WGA requiring a new Product Key that is wrong as it shouldn't have happened.

The strange thing is that when I setup a System I don't have these problems ever but when there are a bunch a Government Bureaucrats Involved in the Decision Making Process and all I'm supposed to do is fix up their mess that is always a problem because they as Self Proclaimed Experts are incapable of making any mistakes.

While I don't necessarily blame M$ for the Reports of the Pirate Software it was their product that was spitting up this error message and I along with my staff had to change the product keys 3 times which was not something to be undertaken lightly. If it was only a couple of units No Problems but changing Product Keys on all 2,500 computers takes quite a lot of time even when you can go straight to the computer and work away let alone when you have to wait around for the staff to do their work first after being told to give us immediate access to their computers for the 30 second time frame to change the Product Keys. I've yet to run into any form of Bureaucrat who doesn't think that they are the most important person on the face of the planet and you are only there to inconvenience them.

And M$ is defiantly at fault with WGA taking out all the machines on the same day because the System Admin couldn't be bothered to apply any updates. Sure she should have applied the updates but by the same token XP shouldn't have shut down completely with no work around for a quick fix.


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Not hate...more like pity towards fools who rushed to buy this crap

by Why Me Worry? In reply to vista...whats all the hat ...

as is the case when XP first made its debut and people were sadly dissapointed with all the bugs, security, and installation issues attributed with any new major OS release. I personally don't hate Vista or Microsoft, but I have installed the Beta and was not thrilled with it, nor was I am impressed with all the snazzy bells and whistles with it. Also, I would have to dump over $500 in harware upgrades just to get it to run efficiently, not to mention the actual cost of Vista itself. I wouldn't say I hate Vista or Microsoft, as I make a living installing and supporting MS products, but I am greatly annoyed with the hype and marketing B.S. of a product that has been over-exaggerated to be something that it is not.

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by Norehca In reply to Not hate...more like pity ...

i guess i got lucky then...cause see so far only one program hasnt worked, one sound driver difficulty, and all of my hardware works fine on it. So i guess im able to enjoy it alot more than others haha. Well i cant wait untill the next service pack which im confident will make others alot happier about this OS. Im sure beofre then theyll be a swarm of updates.

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Well you might be waiting a long time

by HAL 9000 Moderator In reply to luck

The Official Story from M$ is that Vista is the basis for the next 10 years of Windows Development so they are looking at introducing a Service Pack like XP's SP2 every 2 years or there abouts and then 2 years latter a new OS which will be a development of the current Vista maybe something like 2003 R2 but as yet I don't think that the Marketing Department of M$ has decided on what they are going to call the next version of Vista.

So as things currently stand we'll be seeing a Major Service Pack every 2 years and then every 4 Years a new OS so effectively that should be 3 Service Packs and 2 new versions of Vista over the next 10 years if M$ can stick to their current spiel.

As for your easy install and few problems I'll bet that you are using the 32 Bit Version Right? With all the new hardware supporting the 64 Bit OS's it seems a waste of time and money in using a 32 Bit OS on a 64 Bit Platform but even still the 32 Bit version has known problems with Video Capture Cards so the Media Centre Edition isn't much use at the moment, and things are going to get nasty when you load the 64 Bit version as it has DRM which will reduce the quality of any Sound/Video Playback. Currently the 32 Bit version doesn't have this but it will eventually come.

I'm not sure what sound drivers you had trouble with as that was one thing that seemed to work perfectly on every test that I ran even on the Production Version I haven't found a single Sound Driver Problem though to be fair your Hardware needs to be Digitally Signed to work and with the next version of Vista in about 4 years the Software will need this as well To maintain Platform Security as M$ tells it's Partners but really this is a way to prevent software that M$ doesn't want installed on their systems from being used.

Just wait till we are stuck with the 64 Bit Version and have to attempt to make that work. :^0


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Lucky to

by lindfalas In reply to luck

WEll I dont had much problem with vista at all.
I have used it from beta 1 and its so much diffrent now then back in beta 1.
I can almost do everything i do in XP,
The 2 thing that dont work is a webbcam and a tv card. But thats not microsoft or vista fault, Its just stupid hardware manufactors that dont udnerstand to write driver for vista with there stuff.
This has been the biggest problem. Its not a vista fault that 3:e part dont do what they should do.


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mines fine

by Norehca In reply to Lucky to

My tv tuner works fine. As i said the only thing that has trouble is the sound drivers and a couple programs. But as ive said i plan on keeping XP in here for gaming perpouses as i seem to get a few good extra fps on my games. Not to mention some of the games dont work, like my favorite MMORPG Rappelz(check it out, its free and wicked fun, not to mention the graphics are incredible considering its free).

Im thinking i may even use VMware and install Vista on that to avoid having to restart my computer, considering im only using it for small apps such as AIM, internet, the games and features and media center portion of it. But then again Vista hungry for RAM, and id rather not put 512mb of my 700mb available while running XP. I would expect XP to run slow, and i like to run both OS's together and run things on them together.

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More past experience then hate

by HomusOnline In reply to Not hate...more like pity ...

I do not hate Microsoft, nor will I hate Vista. I replied here because it is the marketing hype that is the problem. Most secure Windows ever, better looking desktop, easier networking and sharing of files, better protection with IE and Windows Firewall, included backup and easy searching. Oh, that was my old Windows XP advertisement.

You can blame the companies not keeping up with drivers or updates, or users who do not know. MS gets half the blame because they MAKE the product. And just because I can not make an OS does not excuse shoddy workmanship from someone who can. If users are not able to "use" the OS, it tends to be a problem.

As soon as MS released Vista, most manufacturers and OEMs made it difficult or impossible to purchase something without Vista. This means that people who do not know any better are buying this, and will come looking for you or calling you when it goes burp. Then the sanitized system that you have Vista working perfectly on will not mean much. This is the usual problem when upgrading, and as stated above, these are "issues attributed with any new major OS release."

Upgrade time always feels like I am buying a car without wheels. It does not work as advertised. I have to fix the problem myself. Finally around the first service pack someone slaps their forehead, says "TIRES!", and sends me them to put on.

I think you may be misunderstanding frustration as hate. When you hear the same marketing pitch so many times, it wears on you when you encounter the same issues. My feeling is not hate, but more "yeah, yeah, just let me have it so I can learn to fix it."

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Exactly -- it's not hate.

by apotheon In reply to More past experience then ...

"I think you may be misunderstanding frustration as hate. When you hear the same marketing pitch so many times, it wears on you when you encounter the same issues."
I don't "hate" Vista. I've never even met Vista, personally. I am, however, positive that all the spin and "Vista will rule the world 'cause it's perfect!" and anti-non-Vista FUD floating around is complete and utter garbage.

It gets old trying to point out these things over and over again, and to provide reasonable counterpoints to unreasonable flames and trolls like Norehca's. There's definitely some frustration.

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