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  • #2251810

    vista…whats all the hate for?


    by norehca ·

    Its starting to get to me a bit. I respect your opinions, but im seeing alot of hate towards windows vista. I see nothing wrong with it. It works perfectly fine on my computer. It only took me a couple days to totally learn vista, so why are people talking about relearning vista. Yes it doesnt support certian programs and drivers. I expected so. What about the manufacturers of your hardware? I think they should be making drivers for vista. I think they are to blame as well. They knew it was coming, video card companies like ati and nvidia were ready. they even had drivers for the beta versions of vista! ANd i also dont think windows Vista is like mac osx. I have used it quite a bit before and i dont see like any similarites. It seems to me Microsoft is adding features that people like that are in other OS’s.

    Ive used Windows VIsta and i love it. Ive only had minor problems wih sound card drivers amd a few apps. I expected this and so i simply dual booted my system with xp and vista. ANd eventually Vista will take out XP and become the standard, just like xp took over 2000. Why do you hate vista? im not sure i get it.

    For the sake of discussion why do you like or dislike vista?

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    • #2499065
      Avatar photo

      While you are quite correct

      by hal 9000 ·

      In reply to vista…whats all the hate for?

      Do you remember what XP was like when it was first released?

      Very little worked with it and M$ Sales people where at best foolish and told major companies that they didn’t need any Servers with XP Pro. This was wrong but M$ sold the software and told them how to setup the systems which didn’t work. 1 Government Department bought a 2,500 LAN Setup without a single server in the entire place and when their IT Section couldn’t get the newly installed LAN to work they farmed out the work.

      I got handed that one and it was a mess to say the least. I looked at what had been attempted told them that they needed several Server Applications and left it at that hoping that they would go away. Unfortunately they didn’t and rang me back several days latter with the correct number of W2K servers and wanting me and my company to fit them so that things worked.

      Of course because they had ripped out the old and replaced with the new they had been unable to do any work for close to a month when I first saw that mess and then expected that a few servers could be installed and setup within a day so they could get back to doing some work. It didn’t happen the way that they wanted it to happen but eventually it worked like it was supposed to and then along came SP1 which required a replacement Product Key as the original one was reported as a Pirate one. So after calling M$ and eventually proving that they had sold this product they eventually supplied a new Product Key which had to be changed on each computer that took 11 of us 4 days over an Easter Break one year.

      Then SP2 came out and exactly the same thing happened but this time the message that there was Pirate Software only came up after SP2 was installed. Then a few weeks latter WGA became available and the same thing happened again just 14 days after we had finished changing the old product keys over to the newly supplied ones. So that was another waste of time.

      But what makes this even worse is the Staff turnover in this department so after the Bureaucrat messed up they where promoted and when the SP1 fiasco arrived several System Admins Latter they where under the impression that we had supplied everything so they rang M$ Anti Piracy Hot Line and reported us for selling Pirate copies of Windows. Then when that was eventually fixed up exactly the same thing happened when SP2 was released again several System Admins latter but this one got really upset when it was proved that her department had messed up and when WGA came up with the same message she reported us again. That was 3 reports to M$ Legal about a major Pirate Software Swindle and I’m sure that the nice friendly woman only reported us the third time because she had been proved wrong when she insisted that we had supplied everything.

      Another New System Admin who insisted on running all the Workstations with the Live Update Disabled which is the right thing to do but this one failed to apply any updates for 3 months and every XP Desktop locked up on the same morning claiming that it was loaded with Pirate Software and no way in. The only available fix after again dealing with M$ Legal Department was to apply a In Place Install so every Patch since SP1 was wiped out and required reinstalling.

      They have just moved to a Vista Network with 2003 Servers and I’ve dropped them like a Hot Potato as I want absolutely nothing at all to do with them ever again.

      Vista works OK on a single low end unit that doesn’t require much in the way of work to do but has many problems when networking the system up and then after the Hard Sell by M$ Office 2007 Accounting Package doesn’t work with Vista when it runs perfectly on XP.

      Vista like any new M$ product will eventually be the standard to work with unless M$ really annoys its customers and they insist on moving to a different platform but right now it leaves a lot to be desired and for anything more than a Home Play Toy is a Massive Problem that is unneeded.

      You never need an accountant leaning over your shoulder demanding to have a LAN up and running in 5 minutes because they are loosing Hundreds of Thousands of $ per Hour and currently that is what Vista does.

      When Home Users are having problems with simple things like Printers & Scanners that are less than 2 months old it’s not something that you need to place into a Mission Critical Work Environment where down time is measured in lots of money and that new printer bought last week will not work with the new OS that they want to use.

      When XP was first released 98 consistently outsold it for the first 18 months till M$ removed 98SE from sale. Even now I see people lining up to buy unopened copies of 98SE by the hundreds. I can not help but wonder where these are coming from but they are readily bought and the people selling them can not get enough of them.

      Personally at this point in the Development Cycle of Vista I don’t trust it enough to even recommend it to any of my customers so we are waiting till the major bugs get worked out and more software becomes available as well as some Mission Critical Hardware to some specialised business.

      Incidentally I bought a 5 Licence Volume License Copy of Vista Ultimate with Software Assurance when it was first available. Currently only one copy has been installed and even then it’s not working right so I like many others will wait till it either starts to work or companies demand something different before rushing out to recommend it to any one particularly the 64 Bit Version which is at best a mess.


      • #2500349


        by lindfalas ·

        In reply to While you are quite correct

        Why are you blaming XP to be foult and Miscrosfot when its just stupied people you have stumble across?
        I have done alot of installation, both hardware and software for company and never have this kind of problem.
        One company I did a swith from W2k to XP pro on all computers( most new) and a new server and hock all the gaqdget for there radio and GPS stuff in just 4 hours downtime.
        They did run this for about 3 years without any problem.
        The problemn that has been is only user problem, not the Server or XP fault.

        SP2 and the licens stuff was a bit problem, but if you know what you doing it was not any problem. ITs so easy to fix before any update is done..


        • #2500232
          Avatar photo

          I Blame M$

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to well

          Because they Originally gave the wrong advice to the Government Department Concerned when XP first came out [b]You Don’t Need Servers With This Product![/b]

          Then they continually made the supplied Product Keys invalid for future updates so it took a very long time to change all the XP Product Keys Over. OK from the first install to the release of SP1 and then to SP2 was a while but in a matter of a week between supplying a new product Key for SP2 and WGA requiring a new Product Key that is wrong as it shouldn’t have happened.

          The strange thing is that when I setup a System I don’t have these problems ever but when there are a bunch a Government Bureaucrats Involved in the Decision Making Process and all I’m supposed to do is fix up their mess that is always a problem because they as [b]Self Proclaimed Experts[/b] are incapable of making any mistakes.

          While I don’t necessarily blame M$ for the Reports of the Pirate Software it was their product that was spitting up this error message and I along with my staff had to change the product keys 3 times which was not something to be undertaken lightly. If it was only a couple of units [b]No Problems[/b] but changing Product Keys on all 2,500 computers takes quite a lot of time even when you can go straight to the computer and work away let alone when you have to wait around for the staff to do their work first after being told to give us immediate access to their computers for the 30 second time frame to change the Product Keys. I’ve yet to run into any form of Bureaucrat who doesn’t think that they are the most important person on the face of the planet and you are only there to inconvenience them.

          And M$ is defiantly at fault with WGA taking out all the machines on the same day because the System Admin couldn’t be bothered to apply any updates. Sure she should have applied the updates but by the same token XP shouldn’t have shut down completely with no work around for a quick fix.


    • #2499487

      Not hate…more like pity towards fools who rushed to buy this crap

      by why me worry? ·

      In reply to vista…whats all the hate for?

      as is the case when XP first made its debut and people were sadly dissapointed with all the bugs, security, and installation issues attributed with any new major OS release. I personally don’t hate Vista or Microsoft, but I have installed the Beta and was not thrilled with it, nor was I am impressed with all the snazzy bells and whistles with it. Also, I would have to dump over $500 in harware upgrades just to get it to run efficiently, not to mention the actual cost of Vista itself. I wouldn’t say I hate Vista or Microsoft, as I make a living installing and supporting MS products, but I am greatly annoyed with the hype and marketing B.S. of a product that has been over-exaggerated to be something that it is not.

      • #2499419


        by norehca ·

        In reply to Not hate…more like pity towards fools who rushed to buy this crap

        i guess i got lucky then…cause see so far only one program hasnt worked, one sound driver difficulty, and all of my hardware works fine on it. So i guess im able to enjoy it alot more than others haha. Well i cant wait untill the next service pack which im confident will make others alot happier about this OS. Im sure beofre then theyll be a swarm of updates.

        • #2500408
          Avatar photo

          Well you might be waiting a long time

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to luck

          The Official Story from M$ is that Vista is the basis for the next 10 years of Windows Development so they are looking at introducing a Service Pack like XP’s SP2 every 2 years or there abouts and then 2 years latter a new OS which will be a development of the current Vista maybe something like 2003 R2 but as yet I don’t think that the Marketing Department of M$ has decided on what they are going to call the next version of Vista.

          So as things currently stand we’ll be seeing a Major Service Pack every 2 years and then every 4 Years a new OS so effectively that should be 3 Service Packs and 2 new versions of Vista over the next 10 years if M$ can stick to their current spiel.

          As for your easy install and few problems I’ll bet that you are using the 32 Bit Version Right? With all the new hardware supporting the 64 Bit OS’s it seems a waste of time and money in using a 32 Bit OS on a 64 Bit Platform but even still the 32 Bit version has known problems with Video Capture Cards so the Media Centre Edition isn’t much use at the moment, and things are going to get nasty when you load the 64 Bit version as it has DRM which will reduce the quality of any Sound/Video Playback. Currently the 32 Bit version doesn’t have this but it will eventually come.

          I’m not sure what sound drivers you had trouble with as that was one thing that seemed to work perfectly on every test that I ran even on the Production Version I haven’t found a single Sound Driver Problem though to be fair your Hardware needs to be Digitally Signed to work and with the next version of Vista in about 4 years the Software will need this as well [i]To maintain Platform Security as M$ tells it’s Partners[/i] but really this is a way to prevent software that M$ doesn’t want installed on their systems from being used.

          Just wait till we are stuck with the 64 Bit Version and have to attempt to make that work. :^0


        • #2500347

          Lucky to

          by lindfalas ·

          In reply to luck

          WEll I dont had much problem with vista at all.
          I have used it from beta 1 and its so much diffrent now then back in beta 1.
          I can almost do everything i do in XP,
          The 2 thing that dont work is a webbcam and a tv card. But thats not microsoft or vista fault, Its just stupid hardware manufactors that dont udnerstand to write driver for vista with there stuff.
          This has been the biggest problem. Its not a vista fault that 3:e part dont do what they should do.


        • #2500188

          mines fine

          by norehca ·

          In reply to Lucky to

          My tv tuner works fine. As i said the only thing that has trouble is the sound drivers and a couple programs. But as ive said i plan on keeping XP in here for gaming perpouses as i seem to get a few good extra fps on my games. Not to mention some of the games dont work, like my favorite MMORPG Rappelz(check it out, its free and wicked fun, not to mention the graphics are incredible considering its free).

          Im thinking i may even use VMware and install Vista on that to avoid having to restart my computer, considering im only using it for small apps such as AIM, internet, the games and features and media center portion of it. But then again Vista hungry for RAM, and id rather not put 512mb of my 700mb available while running XP. I would expect XP to run slow, and i like to run both OS’s together and run things on them together.

      • #2500286

        More past experience then hate

        by homusonline ·

        In reply to Not hate…more like pity towards fools who rushed to buy this crap

        I do not hate Microsoft, nor will I hate Vista. I replied here because it is the marketing hype that is the problem. Most secure Windows ever, better looking desktop, easier networking and sharing of files, better protection with IE and Windows Firewall, included backup and easy searching. Oh, that was my old Windows XP advertisement.

        You can blame the companies not keeping up with drivers or updates, or users who do not know. MS gets half the blame because they MAKE the product. And just because I can not make an OS does not excuse shoddy workmanship from someone who can. If users are not able to “use” the OS, it tends to be a problem.

        As soon as MS released Vista, most manufacturers and OEMs made it difficult or impossible to purchase something without Vista. This means that people who do not know any better are buying this, and will come looking for you or calling you when it goes burp. Then the sanitized system that you have Vista working perfectly on will not mean much. This is the usual problem when upgrading, and as stated above, these are “issues attributed with any new major OS release.”

        Upgrade time always feels like I am buying a car without wheels. It does not work as advertised. I have to fix the problem myself. Finally around the first service pack someone slaps their forehead, says “TIRES!”, and sends me them to put on.

        I think you may be misunderstanding frustration as hate. When you hear the same marketing pitch so many times, it wears on you when you encounter the same issues. My feeling is not hate, but more “yeah, yeah, just let me have it so I can learn to fix it.”

        • #2511410

          Exactly — it’s not hate.

          by apotheon ·

          In reply to More past experience then hate

          “[i]I think you may be misunderstanding frustration as hate. When you hear the same marketing pitch so many times, it wears on you when you encounter the same issues.[/i]”
          I don’t “hate” Vista. I’ve never even met Vista, personally. I am, however, positive that all the spin and “Vista will rule the world ’cause it’s perfect!” and anti-non-Vista FUD floating around is complete and utter garbage.

          It gets old trying to point out these things over and over again, and to provide reasonable counterpoints to unreasonable flames and trolls like Norehca’s. There’s definitely some frustration.

        • #2490025

          Amen to that

          by blarman ·

          In reply to More past experience then hate

          My biggest gripe: as an admin, why does Microsoft insist on changing the admin consoles (and interface) every flipping new version? And it isn’t just new features on the consoles – they MOVE the consoles. I don’t really want to spend a couple thousand bucks and weeks of time becoming MS certified just so I can figure out where to tweak network settings.

          So yeah – it isn’t as much hate for the product as frustration over listening to all the new features and going “crap – there’s another thing I’m going to have to 1)find and 2)deal with.”

        • #2490258

          Ah, let me help you..

          by magpie_z ·

          In reply to Amen to that

          Click the start button, type in “computer” or less, and the list will give you the short cut to the computer management consoles.

          I know it is hard to do, but give it a try. Two clicks and type compu… in the line will get you there. Phew, and it didn’t cost you a couple thousand bucks to learn and in less than 30 seconds.

        • #2490226
          Avatar photo

          NO NO NO That’s not acceptable

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to Ah, let me help you..

          It’s those terrible Unix/Linux OS’s that you need the Command Line for Windows can do everything with the GUI. 😀


        • #2498158

          Not sure if you can call it that..

          by johnfatz9 ·

          In reply to NO NO NO That’s not acceptable

          since it is just a really quick search engine for program names, docs, etc. But I did find that if you search for the command line such as cmd, if you just type it and hit enter it will start the command prompt window.

        • #2498150
          Avatar photo

          With XP and 2003 I couldn’t live without the CLI

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to Not sure if you can call it that..

          But I’m constantly amazed by the number of people who insist that it’s no longer needed by the [b]Modern Windows[/b] where everything can be done in the GUI. I’ve yet to find a way to Ping a Machine or run NSLOOKUP and many of those other useful commands that are available for us to use.

          When I’m working on a new installation I place a shortcut to the CLI on the Desktop so it’s within easy reach for when it’s needed and once everything is working properly delete the shortcut as the end users have no need of this.

          From past experience I always find that it’s the [b]End Users[/b] who claim that the CLI is a thing of the past as they honestly know no better but they at the same time deride Unix/Linux/BSD because there is a Command Line Interface Available to use and it’s necessary to use it as well. 😀

          But what’s even funnier in XP and W2003 if you look in the Programs Menu under Accessories the Command Prompt is listed there. Just goes to show how deeply into the menu system they look. :^0


    • #2500143

      I love my new car, but I have to keep my old car because…

      by techexec2 ·

      In reply to vista…whats all the hate for?

      If you feel you have to keep your old car because it does important things for you that your brand new car cannot, the new car has a major problem. It’s always amazing to me the lengths that people will go to justify their position and that they are on the “winning team”, when the truth is something else.

      Ok, Norehca the young student. Learn this: Don’t be a sap. Don’t go along with what “they” tell you because “they” ALWAYS LIE TO YOU. Always and without exception, but the lies might be smaller sometimes. Do your own analysis, look at things objectively, and make up your own mind. Never repeat to others what “they” tell you, and never support someone else’s agenda. Feel good about yourself because of what YOU do, not what group you belong to or identify with. And, who are “they”? It’s not just Microsoft. Don’t follow Microsoft or Apple. Don’t follow Republicans or Democrats. Don’t follow conservatives or liberals. Don’t follow GM, Ford, or Toyota. Think about it. “They” WANT you to follow them and all of their marketing is designed to accomplish that.

      Don’t be a sap.


      Your own words give you away.

      [b]”…I see nothing wrong with it. It works perfectly fine on my computer….”[/b]

      Really? Your own words contradict this.

      Love Vista all you want. I love Vista’s new UI and new features too (e.g. search). But I hate the fact that Vista does not work well with my software and hardware and that I cannot upgrade to it. After this much time since XP it is inexcusable. Microsoft’s grade for this release: F.

      [b]”…And id really love to see any of you vista haters make your own operating system…[/b]

      I’d really like to see MICROSOFT make a better operating system and work better with ISVs. How many BILLIONS more than you do they make? How much is enough? Longhorn/Vista has been a moving target for FIVE YEARS!! Today’s Vista is very different than Longhorn was in the 2001, or 2003, or even 2005 Professional Developer Conferences!! ISVs and IHV’s are not at fault when their products don’t work well with Vista. Microsoft is. Microsoft makes more money than any other software company in the world. They drive the other software companies out of business using dirty tricks, unethical, and illegal behavior. They can and should do better by their customers and “partners” than this. Remember, Microsoft was found GUILTY of illegal monopolistic conduct and has lost MANY BILLIONS of dollars in lawsuits. See what kind of company you are supporting and identifying with?

      [b]”…Yes it doesnt support certian programs and drivers. Whatd you expect?…”[/b]

      I expect everything I already invested in at great expense to work. Period. When you upgrade an IBM mainframe operating system, the applications you already have still work. Period. You should expect nothing less from Microsoft. You just don’t know any better because of lack of experience. It CAN be better. Microsoft’s release of Vista in this condition and lack of good ISV and IHV support is DISGUSTING. Grade: F!!

      [b]”…i plan on keeping XP in here for gaming perpouses as i seem to get a few good extra fps on my games. Not to mention some of the games dont work, like my favorite MMORPG Rappelz…”[/b]

      If this is enough of a problem for you that you CHOOSE TO KEEP THE OLD OPERATING SYSTEM AROUND, then Vista is BROKEN, BROKEN, BROKEN. There is no other way to describe it.

      • #2498573


        by norehca ·

        In reply to I love my new car, but I have to keep my old car because…

        first of all, yes i am a student. but for the past 5 or so years i have been studying computers and the way they work non stop. I have repaired and built countless pc’s, have had more than enough experience with windows, and ever since about 2 years ago have used a little bit of linux and mac os x.

        you sai dnot to listen to what other say or some mumbo jumbo, and do what i want or something to that nature. To begin with a car is different than an operating system. Can you put your other car in the trunk of your new one and simply take it out when you please? Not quite. Many people have multiple things for certian reasons. I know some people who have 5 bikes, who have one bike with snow tires, one with 5 gears, one with 4, etc. and pick and choose depending on the situation. Some people even have two different cars for different things. Some people will have a mini van to drive there children around, and a 1972 pontiac trans am to cruise around for fun in. One is better than the other in certian areas. I simply use Windows Vista more for internet browsing, tv, and simply to have a more pleasurable experience with the beautiful theme and features. That is what i chose to do and im sure many other people have done the same. I am simply slowly upgrading to Vista by keeping both OS’s on my hard drive. As i see Microsoft coming out with more updates, and i notice the OS to be acting more stable etc. I will eventually take XP off of my computer and switch fully to Vista. And another note. Windows XP still has problems with older applications such as my Mechwarrior 2 game, and Wing Commander. Vista has the same problem with older applications as well and im sure there working on that.

        As far as doing things illegal, i dont even look at that. Im sure even you commit legal acts of piracy etc. Everytime you copy a CD or game for someone, anytime you download a song for free. Anytime you get any type of software without paying your doing something illegal. Any computer junky would do so atleast once.

        I still believe hardware makers should be at some fault for the lack of vista drivers. They knew it was coming, they should have been ready. You CANNOT expect Microsoft to be perfect, and i believe they did an excellent job. So far the only vista drivers ive seen are for my video card. Everyone else seems to be relying too much on Microsoft. Bill Gates is not a god. The IT people are only human. There are just too many devices. You cant expect Microsoft to cover them all.

        As far as Vista being broken, i think not. Not at all. So far Vista in many ways is alot better than XP. It has yet to crash on me, no apps have crashed except for one and it was wuickly terminated by the classic ctrl-alt-delete. It looks nicer, runs great, has more features, and is more user friendly in lot of ways. XP on the other hand. I have many problems with constantly. Such as programs randomly crashing, tasks not ending when i tell them to, slowness after exiting large applications such as games which go on for sometimes minutes. Vista simply needed a little more work, and im sure they felt VERY pressured in getting it out.

        You obviously hate Vista. But think of this: Would you hate it if you had a machine that was fully compatible with Vista? But im sure you would say it’s Microsoft’s job to make it work on your computer. Maybe you should get some hardware that works with THERE product. Microsoft is not your bitch.

        • #2498565
          Avatar photo

          Actually it is M$ Fault

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to huh?

          As of May 22 2006 they where finding 5,000 problems per day in Vista and working hard to correct those.

          They couldn’t approve Hardware Drivers for their new OS because they didn’t know how it was going to work and couldn’t tell the Hardware makers either. As yet there have been very few Drivers for Hardware Digitally Signed by M$ because they have only recently released the Code for the Hardware Makers in Late December for the Standard Vista Platform to work properly on and that was only the 32 Bit version as yet there is no release for the 64 Bit Version so that Hardware Makers can make drivers get them approved by M$ and then sell them.

          Vista seems to be a bigger [b]Dogs Breakfast[/b] than XP ever was and is comparable to ME and we all know what happened to that misguided attempt from M$ don’t we?


        • #2498563


          by norehca ·

          In reply to Actually it is M$ Fault

          I hated ME. There was nothing good about. Probably the most unstable OS ever. Vista does not compare. You must have had some really bad experiences with Vista to even compare it to ME.

        • #2498554

          There is right, and there is wrong. You need to learn this.

          by techexec2 ·

          In reply to huh?

          [b]”…As far as doing things illegal, i dont even look at that…”[/b]

          You should. This speaks volumes about you. Maybe you should stay a student and consider a career in academia. I would never hire someone with your ethics. By the way, you CANNOT hide your lack of ethics. They always find out eventually.

          As far as Microsoft is concerned, they are a convicted company. And, Bill Gates does not get a pass from me just because he is giving away billions of dollars to charitable causes now. Every single one of those dollars has someone’s blood on it. Those are ill begotten gains.

          [b]”…Im sure even you commit legal acts of piracy etc. Everytime you copy a CD or game for someone, anytime you download a song for free. Anytime you get any type of software without paying your doing something illegal…”[/b]

          Nope. No pirated software or songs. Never. None. It’s called ethics, boy.

          [b]”…As far as Vista being broken, i think not. Not at all…”[/b]

          By your own admission, considering how little you use Vista, of course it’s not broken for you. If you had real applications to run and real work to accomplish, you might think differently.

          [b]”…You obviously hate Vista. But think of this: Would you hate it if you had a machine that was fully compatible with Vista?..”[/b]

          Nope. I don’t hate it. I don’t love it. It is simply inadequate right now.

          My biggest issue is software. This is a Microsoft problem. They created the platform. Then, they broke it by changing it in such a way that legitimate applications no longer work with it. Vista is simply incompatible with some vital software that I run.

          As far as hardware, I could throw money at more hardware and solve the problem easily.

        • #2498512

          again, whats all the hate for

          by norehca ·

          In reply to There is right, and there is wrong. You need to learn this.

          First of all do not call me boy. You yourself have yet to show me anything worth calling YOU a man. You do not know me. Venting on a thread and throwing shots is not what i call mature. Find another thread to post at.

          I did not say i was a pirate, and do not point fingers. Again you do not know me.

          And yes i use Vista quite a bit. And yes i do run REAL applications as you call them. And i do have work to accomplish, and guess what? Im doing just fine!

          If software is your problem than state so. This has been your first valid remark on this thread. You have criticized more than throw out your opinions. I suggest a change of attitude.

          The point of discussion is what you think. A sentance starting with I think…, or I believe…

          Do not talk about me, talk about vista. THis is what the thread is for.

        • #2498462

          No hate. Just strong disagreement.

          by techexec2 ·

          In reply to again, whats all the hate for

          I just don’t like to see people spreading nonsense like you are here. Your own posts here contradict each other. And, I don’t like to see people bask in hypnotic adoration beneath the glowing Microsoft orb, and encourage others to do so. I have no respect for anyone who does that. Microsoft is not doing the job. Period. And, you’re a Microsoft fanboy. You should should just admit it.

          – [b]You were the one who said Vista runs “fine” for you.[/b] Then you list all of the things you value that don’t work, so much so that you reboot to XP in order to do what you want to do with your computer. As released, Vista is a failure (that’s what I think and have said so directly). If Windows 3.1 and Windows 95 were as incompatible with the programs people were running back when they were released, people would have seriously considered OS/2 instead. Only a fat stupid monopoly could get away with such failure today and STILL make billions and billions in profit each year. People just have too much already invested in Windows.

          – [b]You were the one who dismissed illegal and unethical conduct as something you “don’t even look at”.[/b]

          – [b]You were the one who dismissed piracy and were “sure” I do it or have done it.[/b]

          – And finally, [b]you were the one who exhibited great ignorance about the past and present of the computer hardware and software industry.[/b] So much of what you have posted here is simply incorrect.

          That sounds like juvenile behavior to me.

          [b]The “I thinks”…[/b]
          In the several posts I have made in this thread, I have made LOADS of comments that make it clear what I think. I don’t understand how you could miss it.

          As released, Vista is a disgusting failure. With all of their billions and billions of dollars, and after nearly 6 years of development and delays and false starts, this is all Microsoft can do? Completely unacceptable. This kind of failure would NEVER be tolerated in any other Fortune 50 company. Executives, managers and engineers would be held accountable and the heads would have rolled a long time ago.

          However, since I must use Windows for some things, I’m looking forward to being able to run Vista when Microsoft finally gets it right enough…about 6 to 12 months from now.

          [b]Slogan of the Day[/b]
          Windows Vista. The “Woe” Starts Now(tm).

          edit: typo

        • #2511596

          A Case of no Valentine Cards?

          by now left tr ·

          In reply to No hate. Just strong disagreement.

          That was some rant (above x 3)

        • #2511469

          Nahhh :-)

          by techexec2 ·

          In reply to A Case of no Valentine Cards?

          Nahhh. Microsoft is just a sore subject with me.

          Life is good! All the best to you!

          🙂 🙂 🙂

        • #2511502

          yikes buddy

          by norehca ·

          In reply to No hate. Just strong disagreement.

          could someone please close this thread. it seems somebody cannot handle a simple discussion.

        • #2511404


          by techexec2 ·

          In reply to yikes buddy

          What a pathetic wimp you are!!

          You started this t*rd hunt and now you are crying “uncle” and asking for the thread to be terminated??

          I’ll freely admit that I am being hard on you and a bit of an a**hole. But, it is largely justified.

          You need to go back to the shallow end of the pool.

        • #2511394


          by apotheon ·

          In reply to yikes buddy

          Those statements looked to me perfectly reasonable — especially considering your trollish behavior and victim-culture dissembling.

    • #2511642

      I think this is a common belief

      by statykserver ·

      In reply to vista…whats all the hate for?

      This can also be applied to the alternative OS
      I see nothing wrong with it. It works perfectly fine on my computer. It only took me a couple days to totally learn vista, so why are people talking about relearning vista. Yes it doesnt support certian programs and drivers. Whatd you expect? Its brand new! Many people think that its up to microsoft to make all your hardware work with Vista. What about the manufacturers of your hardware? They also should be making drivers for vista. I blame them more than microsoft.
      end quote
      Funny how that text can also be applied to Linux.

      There are alot of “Top 10 reasons not to get Vista” sites that are also hating on Vista but this one has both sides of the scale. But when you compare them one surely outweighs the other.
      Top Ten reasons to GET VISTA
      Top Ten reasons NOT to get VISTA
      As for the sake of discussion I don’t like or dislike Vista I just choose Linux because it’s what fits me personally. Ultimately everyone will do the same. (choose)

      • #2511408

        Excellent point!

        by apotheon ·

        In reply to I think this is a common belief

        I was going to say something about the Vista driver excuses offered, and how Microsoft devotees tend to ignore that aspect of driver availability when attacking non-Microsoft operating systems for “ease of use”. I’m glad you already made the point for me.

    • #2511407

      You’re obviously a troll.

      by apotheon ·

      In reply to vista…whats all the hate for?

      Your posts remind me of some of rickk’s “back in the day” — pretending to be nice, but really taking a very trollish position, thinly veiled by exhortations for us to “all just get along”. The clincher in this case:

      “[i]Oh and by the way, if your getting video errors its because you have no knowlege of computers and didnt go to your video cards website ot get the latest vista drivers! If your computer stupid, stick to XP dont complain please. And dont complain about the price either just because you want it and dont have enough money.[/i]”

      Yeah. Troll.

      • #2511369

        oh boy

        by norehca ·

        In reply to You’re obviously a troll.

        ok listen, you need to calm down. everybody is getting excited over nothing. and what the hell is a troll?

        i made that comment because ive seen alot of people complain about video errors of some sort which ive seen and is because they didnt get the drivers. complaining about something you dont know anything about, thats what i mean.

        second about the price, i also hear alot of people complain about the price. that os all that was about.

        and about closing the thread. this topic has turned into more of a fight than a discussion. i feel it safe to close it before it gets out of hand.

        im sorry if i came off the wrong way. all i wanted to know is what people thought about vista, and it seems like im getting attacked. i told everyone what i thought about it and i seem to be getting alot of crap. can we jus share our opinions here?

        • #2511338

          Discussions, debates, opinions …. oh my

          by statykserver ·

          In reply to oh boy

          FYI Unofficial but general description of troll

          I don’t think anyone is actually getting excited here, but rather people are just expressing their opinions and some bring them with a little more passion than others. To be honest with you your last paragraph of your original post was strongly worded which to some can seem as being a troll and to others just extremely passionate. In either case everyone is entitled to his or her own opinion without intentionally trying to demean someone else.

          IMHO I don’t think you’re “getting a lot of crap” as I only saw one post directed towards you.

          Aside from that and moving along I think there are alot of good points here, especially this one “i made that comment because ive seen alot of people complain about video errors of some sort which ive seen and is because they didnt get the drivers. complaining about something you dont know anything about, thats what i mean.” Because it can go both ways. You know how some people complain how they could never get linux installed because of drivers, or other errors that they do not fully understand and then they go on about how they hate linux.

          Great topic BTW

        • #2490150

          Let’s examine the facts.

          by apotheon ·

          In reply to oh boy

          “[i]and what the hell is a troll?[/i]”
          definition of a [url=][b]troll[/b][/url]

          I’d have linked to the Jargon Wiki, at, instead of the static file at, but it’s down for maintenance for a couple days right now.

          In your similarly trollish thread, [url=][b]Linux or Windows[/b][/url], you started out sounding like sweetness and light, then said “[i]Windows on the other hand is easier. I dont care what you Linux lovers say, its true.[/i]” That’s pretty trollish behavior.

          “[i]i made that comment because ive seen alot of people complain about video errors of some sort which ive seen and is because they didnt get the drivers. complaining about something you dont know anything about, thats what i mean.[/i]”
          You called anyone who had video trouble with Vista “computer stupid” and told them to “stick to XP” and “don’t complain”. The fact you found drivers and, in your case, they worked in no way means that someone else who had more trouble than you is stupid. That was pretty damned trollish of you, too. More so than what you said to start the other discussion thread, even.

          . . . but wait, it gets better:
          “[i]it took me 3 hours to install drivers on Ubuntu and required many many lines of code (and it didnt work).[/i]”
          I’ll now repeat, with modifications for context (and spelling and grammar), exactly what you said:

          “Oh, and by the way, if you’re getting video errors it’s because you have no knowlege of computers and didn’t go to your video card vendor’s website to get the latest Linux drivers! If you’re computer stupid, stick to Windows — don’t complain please.”

          Sometimes, the only way a troll learns is by getting his own crap thrown back at him.

          “[i]second about the price, i also hear alot of people complain about the price. that os all that was about.[/i]”
          Many people think it costs far too much — and I’m inclined to agree. Of course, I don’t really complain about it, because I’m not willing to pay for MS Windows licenses any longer — paying hundreds of dollars for the privilege of using an inferior OS isn’t really on my list of fun things to do. I bring it up from time to time to make a point, but that’s usually in discussions about TCO for businesses.

          “[i]this topic has turned into more of a fight than a discussion.[/i]”
          What did you really expect? Really? Are you entirely unaware of the effect calling people stupid and saying “I don’t care what [b]you Linux lovers[/b] say” tends to have? Are you entirely unaware of the fact you’re insulting people and insinuating they’re liars?

          “[i]im sorry if i came off the wrong way.[/i]”
          I doubt that — but I’m willing to give you the benefit of the doubt. If you stop posting trollish nonsense, and act more like a responsible adult, I’m sure you can overcome your initial bad impression.

          “[i]can we jus share our opinions here?[/i]”
          Sure we can. My opinion is that you’ve acted a bit like a troll. I’m also of the opinion that this fact does not mean you’re unrecoverable. I wish you the best of luck in overcoming that problem.

          By the way, if you had trouble with video drivers on Ubuntu, you may want to have a look at [url=][b]Envy[/b][/url].

        • #2489837

          ok ok

          by norehca ·

          In reply to Let’s examine the facts.

          alright alright alright. i came off as a troll or whatever. im sorry. can you stop calling me a troll now?

          and i dont think that pos ti said about video drivers had anything to do with my linux comment with the drivers. i DID get drivers from ATI and fallowed the only decent instructions i could find word by word and still couldnt do it. and yeah im sticking to windows because of that trouble and other trouble. linux is not for me.

          im sorry im sorry im sorry. i will edit my post and get rid of the trollish things i said.

        • #2493679

          re: drivers (again)

          by apotheon ·

          In reply to ok ok

          There are three computers in this household running non-Windows systems on ATI video cards, complete with 3D graphics drivers installed.

          One is a Debian GNU/Linux box with a Radeon 9800 in it.

          One is a Debian GNU/Linux laptop with a Radeon Mobility X300.

          This machine is a FreeBSD box with a Radeon 9200 in it.

          Surprisingly, the FreeBSD system had the easiest driver install, but they were all pretty simple. As such, I’d say that either the “computer stupid” comment applies to you or it applies to nobody. I’m inclined to say it applies to nobody, just because a driver didn’t install — but if you insist on someone being “computer stupid” because a driver wouldn’t install, I guess I’ll just have to lump you in with it. Your choice.

          Giving up on another OS just because of problems you had with one or two installs — for bad luck, basically — is your right, of course. It’s not the approach I’d take, though (and if I did I wouldn’t ever have used Windows either, probably).

          Also . . . I wonder why the 3D driver was so important to you, anyway. It took me more than a year to get around to installing the proprietary 3D driver on one system I had because I never had need of it. Unless you’re playing Windows games via Wine/Cedega, doing 3D rendering for computer animation, or something like that, it’s not necessary — though some people really want to run Beryl/XGL so their desktop environments put the cheap theatrics of the Vista interface to shame, I guess.

          I, for one, choose Sawfish or WindowMaker as my window manager, because I’m more interested in being productive than playing with eye candy.

        • #2493587


          by norehca ·

          In reply to re: drivers (again)

          well actually i do use linux still. Ubuntu that is. I use it for its firewall. I browse the internet on it, and use it for its free applications. I think one of the best parts of linux is the free alternatives to some realy expensive windows applications.

          Yes i did try to play games on WINE. So i was trying to to install the drivers. Im sorry i said computer stupid.BUt you do have to admit, it is alot harder installing drivers on Linux than Windows, dont you think?

        • #2493562

          That depends whether you’re computer stupid

          by absolutely ·

          In reply to ah

          If you know what to do with the command line, there are just a few steps for most Linux hardware packages. If, on the other hand, you don’t know how a computer does what it does, you’d better stick to Windows & Install Shield Wizards, including the extra time each new program install requires. Linux takes time to learn. Windows takes more time to use. The choice is yours.

        • #2493542

          not really

          by apotheon ·

          In reply to ah

          “[i]BUt you do have to admit, it is alot harder installing drivers on Linux than Windows, dont you think?[/i]”
          Not really.

          Most of the time, the drivers I need are available either already in the kernel or via the package manager for the distribution I use. It’s only in rare cases (such as proprietary 3D accelerated graphics drivers) that I have to install them separately.

          Meanwhile, on MS Windows, one has to install drivers via CDs for almost every single piece of hardware in the system. The only common exceptions are on systems with OEM installs of MS Windows. Sometimes, when installing a driver on Windows, I run into problems with the install — such as Plug and Play interfering with the hardware vendor’s driver installation process.

          In other words, I tend to end up with major annoyances with Windows drivers about as often as with Linux drivers. It just [b]seems[/b] to some people like drivers are easier to deal with on MS Windows because they have to install drivers separately [b]more often[/b], so that of all the times they have to install drivers the problem cases are a smaller percentage of driver installs. With Linux, people don’t notice the drivers with which they don’t have problems as much because they never have to install them at all.

        • #2493677

          WOW !!

          by aaron a baker ·

          In reply to Let’s examine the facts.

          Well said Apotheon, well said indeed.
          Succinct, to the point and bang on right.
          I tip my hat to you.
          Well done

        • #2493675


          by apotheon ·

          In reply to WOW !!

          I appreciate the compliment.

        • #2493419

          Apotheon my friend

          by aaron a baker ·

          In reply to Let’s examine the facts.

          I can only say the you are quickly becoming one of my Heroes.
          It’s nice to read someone who knows what the they are talking about.
          Thank you.

        • #2490092

          The REAL reason

          by grumpyroger ·

          In reply to oh boy

          As I sit here and read all this complaining and BLAMEING, I have to laugh! You say it’s MS fault, you say it’s ME in disguise, EVERYONE of you will blame something or somebody different for whatever reason. Let’s all face the facts. YOU are SCARED of change, it is human nature! the same thing happened when win 3.11 came out all the way to win Vista. Be an Explorer ( no pun intented) and stop your complaining. The bugs will be worked out in time.

        • #2490071
          Avatar photo

          Well in that case

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to The REAL reason

          You are now working for me and my company and are the Windows Vista Specialist who will walk into any business and extol the virtues of Vista to them and make it work for them as it is now.

          You’ll not have any problems with incompatible Software or Hardware not working and you’ll get everything required to work. Of course you’ll be on your own as none of my staff are prepared to touch Vista with a [b]Barge Pole[/b] till there are products that actually work on it things like AV Products that are Mission Critical to the Business that we Support and their specialised software.

          Welcome to the [b]Mad House[/b] I’ll expect you to show up for work Monday Morning. Oh in case I didn’t mention it we are only interested in the 64 Bit Version of Vista so you’ll be OK with that wont you?


        • #2490024

          Well Said Col

          by aaron a baker ·

          In reply to Well in that case

          Hi Col, well said indeed and I couldn’t agree with you more.
          By the way, I might be a little late for work, as I live in CANADA, Hee.
          Warmest regards

        • #2490070

          Not me…

          by techexec2 ·

          In reply to The REAL reason

          I’m not scared of Vista at all. I have it (RC2) and like it, and would really like to use it right now, except that it doesn’t work right!! It is PATHETIC and UNACCEPTABLE for a company like Microsoft to release Vista in this condition. And, I DO blame Microsoft for breaking so much 3rd party software and hardware. They broke the platform and they didn’t work properly with ISVs and IHVs so their products could be ready when Vista was released.


          Longhorn/Vista design was being changed continuously until very late 2006. It’s not reasonable to expect a 3rd party vendor to follow such a moving target. Even the Zune did not work with Vista when it was released in November. Enough said!!

          Microsoft made a big deal about reaching out to help Mozilla with Firefox in November 2006. Why not in 2005? 2004? 2003? 2002? 2001? Moving target. Longhorn in 2001 was very different from Vista in 2007.


          I have always adopted new Microsoft Windows versions right after they came out unless there was something wrong with them. I jumped right on DOS 5.0, 6.0, 6.1, Windows 3.0, 3.1, WFW3.1, WFW3.11, 95, 98, 98SE, NT3.5, NT4, and 2000. I waited on Windows XP until about SP1 because there were a lot of problems with it, and with application and hardware compatibility (a scanner driver problem). I’ll be waiting a long time before adopting Vista also. And, I expect many people who have already bought Vista will be waiting. It will either be “shelfware” or “dual bootware” for them.


          True. The Vista bugs WILL be worked out in time. But, not on MY time. I will not PAY to be a beta tester. I have much better things to do with my time than that.

          edit: I forgot to include good ‘ol “Windows For Workgroups” :-). Too important to omit!

        • #2490064


          by grumpyroger ·

          In reply to Not me…

          OK, I agree, I too will not pay to be a beta tester, but as with most new software, the bugs will take time to work out. My tme too is very valuable, that is probably why I wait to purchase new OS, after they are released. I bite my tounge! you WIN…

        • #2490056

          No…You win :-)

          by techexec2 ·

          In reply to WOW!

          You’re a good guy. We all win. 🙂

        • #2490026

          Wrong; Dead Wrong

          by aaron a baker ·

          In reply to The REAL reason

          I don’t Hate Vista.
          As a matter of fact I have Vista and in DO enjoy the new Program.However it has to be said that Vista has become a bandwagon excuse for people who can’t seem to talk about anything else.
          It’s not VISTA that I dislike, it the constant attention to the point of Auld Nauseum that I have begun to resent.
          There is also XPPro, Linux Mac and a host of Other programs that are just as worthy of being discussed and highlighted.
          This is my complaint.
          Not the Program but the people who forgotten about the other programs who are just as important.
          THAT is the complaint, not the Program.
          Please get your fact so straight, then make with the accusations.
          AS for the 3.11 and the rest I have used them all in my Twenty Five Plus years of computing and have NEVER seen the kind of band wagon excuses for Vista articles as I have lately at TR.
          Seems the only one left that has any originality is the Geek, Bless him.
          So don’t misinterpret our words.And ask yourself, aren’t you just a little fed up??
          I am.

        • #2493619


          by grumpyroger ·

          In reply to Wrong; Dead Wrong

          In this world that we live in today, and this ##&&* thing called a society, EVERYTHING must be Sensasionalized. Nothing can be introduced, then let the public decide, it has to have all of the hoopla, and BS, otherwise these people who, took the Ten commandmants out of schools, prayer out of public, well you get the picture, they just have to have it beat into thier heads, or they don’t & won’t understand. Have a BEAUTIMOUS day, and ge moving YOU’RE LATE for work…..

        • #2493541


          by apotheon ·

          In reply to Confused?

          So, now, true Christians only use MS Windows? Is that it? Otherwise, I don’t see the point of your non sequitur here.

        • #2489937

          Scared of change . . . ?

          by apotheon ·

          In reply to The REAL reason

          I’m not particularly “scared of change”, to judge by my OS usage. I went from an old Atari OS (I don’t even remember what it was called) to DOS 3.0 to DOS 5.0 to Windows for Workgroups 3.11 to Windows 95 to Windows 95 SR2 to Windows 98 to Windows 98SE to Windows NT 4.0 to Red Hat Linux 5.0 to Windows 2000 to Windows XP to SuSE Linux to MEPIS Linux to Debian GNU/Linux to FreeBSD. That’s just the lineup of what I’ve used as my primary OSes, roughly in order. I’ve used many of these in parallel with one another, and I’ve used several other OSes as a secondary OS.

          Perhaps you can tell me why most of the early Vista adopters have never used anything but MS Windows if I’m the one that’s “scared of change”. What OSes have [b]you[/b] used?

        • #2493612


          by grumpyroger ·

          In reply to Scared of change . . . ?

          Most of the people (your words) have anly used Windows because they are too young to remember [Sheriff John, Capt’n Kangaroo, Gigantor]The day. And just because you have used a variety of OS’, that does not mean that one is NOT scared of change (stop taking it personal) As I stated ” it is normal human behavior”

          As for the OS’ that I hve used, well primarily MS OS’, my first machine was a Kaypro 60, then on to IBM 8180 (XT) then forward Win 2.1 and so on. I’m not gonna get into a nah,nah,nah, I did this did you? game.

          Anyway, have a GREAT day.

        • #2493539

          Let me put this in very, very simple terms so you’ll understand.

          by apotheon ·

          In reply to Ohhhh..Awe…

          I use MS Windows (when I have to), MacOS X (when I “need” to use a proprietary platform and MS Windows doesn’t hold the monopoly on what I’m doing), Linux (when it’s the convenient way to get things done), and FreeBSD (by preference). You use — what, exactly? Just MS Windows?

          Who’s scared of the unknown here?

          Get over yourself. You’re not a psychologist. You clearly have no clue about the subject of why people make the decisions they do.

          You are a troll.

        • #2493499

          wah wah wah

          by grumpyroger ·

          In reply to Let me put this in very, very simple terms so you’ll understand.

          Dry your eyes Mr. Know it all, wah wah. I loe the way you also can physco analyze people, and you call me a troll. ohhhhhhh, that really shows your intelligence, or do you really have any

        • #2493486

          Good idea

          by tony hopkinson ·

          In reply to Ohhhh..Awe…

          After all you would lose big style, to a lot of us.
          You need to spend a bit of real time with some non MS OSes. If nothing else the differences in approach will teach you more about windows than you know now.

        • #2493683

          Not so much

          by jmgarvin ·

          In reply to The REAL reason

          I’m more tired of dealing with the same old FUD and crap from MS. I’m burned out from having to fight with vendors to get proper support. I’m tired of having to haul legacy boxes around with everything from Win9x to XP SP1. It’s just gotten old.

          Let’s face it. MS shot themselves in the foot with Vista and nobody wants to hop on the bandwagon this time.

        • #2493488

          Personally I’m petrified

          by tony hopkinson ·

          In reply to The REAL reason

          I managed to skip ME roll out so I don’t really know what to expect.

          I was doing VMS at the time and a bit of MPE / XL oh and HP-UX, fortunately none of them scared me.

          You want to try again, I recommend taking your foot out of your mouth this time. At least you’ll be easier to understand even if you continue to make no sense at all.

          The bugs will be worked out in time for what?
          If you can give a solid date, I’ll base any recommendations to the business on it.

          Course given your bio and your posts to date, I’m going to have to trust you a lot aren’t I.
          So may be I should take a more balanced view, get a second opinion, what do you think?


          Scared of change, hilarious.

        • #2493407

          Interests, Current Technology Implementation, Contacts: blank, blank…

          by absolutely ·

          In reply to The REAL reason


          You’re very generous with your opinion, considering how stingy you are with your data.

        • #2506365

          Change? What change?

          by homusonline ·

          In reply to The REAL reason

          A change would be an M$ operating system that works out of the box. Vista seems to be following all the usual characteristics of an M$ OS.

          Change would also be not having these discussions every time a new OS comes out.

          And I do not fear change. I fear carniverous underwear.

        • #2494296
          Avatar photo

          YOU’RE LATE!!!!!!!!!!

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to The REAL reason

          You didn’t show up for work [b]Monday Morning[/b] and as it’s now after 5.00 PM Tuesday I take it that you are not coming this week.

          Just don’t expect to get paid for not working like M$ products do. :p

          I assume that you are either unwilling to move to a real Democratic Country where people who talk politics are taken out and locked to a chain in the back yard till they learn some manners. Or are too scared to take up my challenge. [i]Dam I really need another Tech too and I look after my staff. I suppose that it’s a good thing that I didn’t order a new car for you before you arrived as I would now be stuck with it.[/i] What’s the answer there?

          OH incidentally I used the [b]Partner Demo Readiness Toolkit[/b] yesterday and things like the M$ Branded Finger Print Reader doesn’t have any drivers for it nor do the M$ Multimedia Keyboards & Mice so yes that’s M$ fault isn’t it? Those I did expect to actually work as they are both current models. M$ doesn’t have any drivers listed for them and Vista but what I did find interesting was that the RC2 Beta copy actually picked up the LAN Drivers but the RTM version didn’t. That is something else that I do blame M$ for as if they could include the drivers in the Beta Copy what happened to them on the Volume License OEM Copy?

          Col ]:)

        • #2494226


          by shaun.g ·

          In reply to YOU’RE LATE!!!!!!!!!!

          They certainly got it right… the took the world by storm… and now we the clean up job to do… Hurricane Microsoft.

        • #2490205


          by homusonline ·

          In reply to YOU’RE LATE!!!!!!!!!!

          It didn’t have drivers for my M$ B$ Detector either, other wise I would have steered clear of Vista. Darn drivers. I wonder if the ones I used for XP will work.

        • #2511005
          Avatar photo

          No they don’t

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to Drivers


        • #2511001

          I like the Avatar

          by w2ktechman ·

          In reply to No they don’t

          is that in response to installing Vista???

        • #2510440
          Avatar photo

          Which One?

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to No they don’t

          The one with the Hello or the one throwing the PC out a window?

          Steffi got very upset with the Hello so I had to change it of face her wrath and being the coward that I am I went with the Throwing the PC out the Window. Kind of reminds me of when I was working at IBM on the Main Frames how I was called into the PC side of the business a couple of times as the manager there was never in the office and as I was the most Senior Tech around I got all the fun jobs. One time I was faced with a IBM shot twice with a 12 Gauge and the owner insisted that it be replaced UG because the software failed to work properly. Another time I was faced with one thrown out a window for the same reason the only trouble was that the owner lived on the twelfth floor. 😀

          Apparently because it broke and didn’t bounce the woman demanded that it be replaced UG as well because of the crappy software installed upon it. But back in those days I used to carry one of those Water Cooler Bottles with me full of sea water so when I got a really nasty one I could pour the seawater through it while it was running and then know exactly where the problem was. When it was realised that this was my intention everyone left me alone and allowed me to do my work instead of hanging over my shoulder demanding that the thing be fixed an hour before I arrived On Site. :^0

          But I do like the one throwing the PC out the window as it appeals to my warped sense of humour. :p

          Col ]:)

        • #2510306

          Definately throwing out the Window

          by w2ktechman ·

          In reply to No they don’t

          I thought it was a subtle hint about first dealings with Vista…

          But none-the-less. I like it.

        • #2498290

          Thought throwing it out the window

          by homusonline ·

          In reply to No they don’t

          was a valid troubleshooting technique.

          I did depot repair of laptops, and I loved the ones that were dropped and sent in for warranty repair. I would get a one line problem description, usually “just stopped working.” The bezels, palmrest, LCD and bottom case would have huge cracks coming from one corner, so it was obviously dropped. It “just stopped working” after it fell out of the case and down the stairs.

          Many users attempted experiments using coke, coffee, water and tea to cool an overheating laptop. It does not help as much as it may first seem.

          The avatar is definately cool.

        • #2498234

          I have a person who travels often

          by w2ktechman ·

          In reply to No they don’t

          and about every 6 months, when we get new model notebooks in, she comes in with a screwed up (obviously dropped) unit and demands a new one.
          I think she got this way because we wouldnt upgrade her that often, she was on the standard rotation.
          Anyway, her excuse is always that “It went through the inspection at the airport, and it fell off the conveyer belt”

          so, until the next model releases (soon) I am safe for a while….

    • #2511403


      by shaun.g ·

      In reply to vista…whats all the hate for?

      I think that I detect a distinct lack of Micro$oft and their products… They alwas release them before they work properly.

      I wont go to Vista for a little while. I run Win Xp, only because it came with the PC…I have grown used to it and almost always make it look windows (I am a die hard on this one) I just find its easier to navigate for me. But I wont go to Vista for a long while. least not till I see its working fine.

      • #2511365


        by norehca ·

        In reply to Hmmmm…

        well, it believe microsoft was pressured in getting this OS out. Im sure they would have liked ot keep working on it.

        it is probably best to wait as you said. Ive told my friends to wait a while. but i got lucky and am able to run it quite well.

        my main focus was not about the fact that vista doesnt work well on alot of computers. it is more about the features and such about windows vista. i wanted to know about what people thought about it, given that it worked haha.

        • #2490175
          Avatar photo

          Firstly M$ never released a single product that works properly

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to yeah

          But instead of calling the problems Faults they call them [b]Undocumented Features.[/b]

          If you’ve had anything at all to do with M$ software in a Business environment you’ll know just how lousy it actually is. While it may work great on a Home Computer playing Games there are many things that it doesn’t do well when placed in a Business environment and it’s the IT people who are charged with fixing it when they have no idea of what M$ has done to mess up things.

          When XP was released one of it’s selling features was that you didn’t need any Servers with it in a Network Install. Well M$ where just plain wrong with that one although maybe a Token Ring may have worked on a 2,500 Peer to Peer LAN provided that you where not constantly logging onto the same computer as everyone else to access files anyway. Lately I’ve been hearing the same thing with Vista the Top of the Range unit doesn’t require the Servers that XP does. [b]Another Joke[/b] and something that some poor git is going to have to fix up immediately after a large LAN has been setup.

          First you pay for the Server Application then the Desktop Applications and then Terminal Services or CAL’s so you can connect those Desktops to the Servers that you’ve bought and just 10 CAL’s can come in at a greater price than the Server Application then M$ Marketing will try to sell you a Volume License for your Desktops when you already have XP Pro on them so M$ tries to get you to buy another OS for computers that already have the same OS on them. Great idea on a new setup but lousy on an existing setup but I’ve seen many people buy the Volume License of XP Pro because M$ has sold them on the idea that they are getting something cheap.

          What you actually get is 1 Install CD with the right to install it on X number of computers without COA’s and besides the paperwork that you pickup from the Live M$ centre there is nothing that shows if you have the correct number of Licenses purchased.

          Having worked with every thing M$ since Windows 3.11 in business and even before that where we installed Windows whatever and a Novel Network with the Windows as Novel Clients it has always been a mess to say the least. But since M$ has introduced their own Server Platforms and pushed the Idea that you need to keep everything M$ across the Network they are making an enormous amount of money off their products. I personally thing that it’s an outrage that you pay for the Server Application then a Desktop Application and then another product to allow you to connect those Desktops to the Server talk about having your cake and eating it to M$ is making money hand over fist by their Licensing and it’s costing the customers.

          Anyway like everything M$ it’s never to be trusted till the first Service Pack has been released and even then you only have a small chance of being able to make it work. But what I just love is M$ way of making money off OEM product as they charge you to fix the problems that they didn’t fix before releasing the product and at the same time get feedback on the problems that they have produced into their product. Every person who rushes out and buys new M$ Software is a [b]Paying Beta Tester for M$[/b] and not only do these people accept this but they are happy to do it. Something there that I can never understand.

          It’s just like buying a absolute pile of [b]Crap Car[/b] and then trading it in on another one of the same make hoping that the maker has fixed all the problems in the manufacture. If I got a real pile of rubbish I would be getting rid of the thing and buying a different brand that actually worked not continuing to buy the same pile of rubbish hoping that it has got better and then paying the maker to fix it up when it breaks through poor design. But at least with a car or any other consumer product you actually own it with M$ software you don’t even have that right you are just buying a license to use the product that M$ can recall at any time that they like without compensating you for their with drawl of your right to use their product.

          I just have never understood why people are so willing to put up with the rubbish that M$ dishes out and not complain, even then M$ EULA removes the responsibility from M$ for any problems with the software. [i]OH and Welcome to the [b]Most Secure Windows Yet[/b] that is something that I’m sick and tired of seeing on every copy of Windows that gets released I don’t think that they even change the words around as they always look exactly the same and tell you just how much better it is over the previous version which when new was the best thing since sliced bread that M$ had come up with.[/i]

          At the product Release of 2003 we where all told just how secure it was and within two weeks there where several Critical Patches released for it but the Marketing People from M$ would have you believe that the problems had been found after the launch and they had fixed them in those 2 weeks. Not possible particularly when one of them involved IE which was on every Windows Desktop and affected every M$ product on the OS side of things.

          I’ve been telling everyone that the moment that Vista gets taken up by business I’m checking myself into Hospital suffering from [b]Information Overload[/b] and will only come out after it nearly works the way that M$ claim it will. I have enough to drive me insane that I have some control over without relying on M$ to push me right over the edge.

          2 Days for a domestic computer is a very long time when you think about a Easy to use OS but the moment that you place that into a Business situation you can increase the learning curve by several weeks as there are things in Business that you’ll never see in a Domestic Installation.

          OH incidentally the only thing that was pressuring M$ into releasing Vista was their Share Price have you looked at the value of M$ Shares recently?


        • #2490154


          by homusonline ·

          In reply to Firstly M$ never released a single product that works properly

          I think I am going to cry. That was beautiful. I really can not think of anything else to say now.

        • #2493421

          Extremely well said

          by aaron a baker ·

          In reply to Firstly M$ never released a single product that works properly

          Hello Col;
          Excellently put and of course, you’re right on the button.
          In a home environment, Windows might do well, however based on my personal experience it’s very easy to believe that this would not be the case in and enterprise situation.
          It’s all very well to complain and compare the way a lot of these people, however I suspect that given a true professional environment, they would find just how quickly windows can become a pain id the “Royal Canadian”, excuse the pun.
          And so I tip my hat to you for putting so succinctly and may I say most accurately.
          Warmest Regards

        • #2494197

          Back to your mylfs Baker

          by now left tr ·

          In reply to Extremely well said

          Payment on delivery eh?

        • #2494129

          Once Again

          by aaron a baker ·

          In reply to Back to your mylfs Baker

          Obviously you didn’t get it the first time so I’ll try again.
          After that, I will discard you as a flamer.
          Your a troll and it shows.

          And just how much do you think you know about XPPro or Home Ed?
          Did you ever study it carefully?
          Do you know what Administrative tools are and what each Individual Tool serves.
          Do you know how XP works aside from the obvious menu?
          Do you know what Disk Management is?
          Do you know what Component services are?
          Or are you just one of those who runs it and when it crashes is left wondering what to do?
          Before you question my integrity and resolve, I strongly suggest that you familiarize yourself “Thoughroughly”
          with the XP Pro, then talk.
          As a Beta tester who is using Vista, I am constantly making discoveries.
          Any one who say that they have learned in no time at all is either lying through his teeth or has no clue as to what makes Vista work.
          Are you aware of the coming traps in vista?
          Are you aware that the copy that you get with your Dell is only a bottom line version and that someday Microsoft will expect to be paid for the add-ons?
          The real question then is;
          Just how much do you think you know and how long have you been add it.
          I’ve been at it for over twenty five years and I’m still learning.
          If you want to flame, go elsewhere.
          Above all, head back to the drawing board and learn .
          Your ignorance and arrogance are so obvious as to be blinding.
          I would suggest you read Greg Shultz or John McCormick,
          You never know, you might fall of the horse long enough to actually learn something, instead of making stupid and inane statement.
          Go learn and above Learn about XP, then talk, Vista.

        • #2494127

          Read the correct forum for the answer you seek

          by now left tr ·

          In reply to Once Again

        • #2490202

          I already have my answer Thank You

          by aaron a baker ·

          In reply to Once Again

          The simple fact is that you are not a Pro, but a troll.
          You flame and then pretend innocence.
          I already know you for what you really are, therefore what is the point?
          I have my answer.
          The least you could do is have enough class to use my name properly.
          If you know what class is.

        • #2511206


          by now left tr ·

          In reply to Once Again

          You cry ‘Troll’ after one post against you view yet bang on about Class. How on earth can one post be classed as Trolling??

          What you have (or fail) to realise is that the world of IT is far, far larger than the tight boundaries of TR. I use technology every day to solve problems and have it on good authority that I’m quite good at this ‘game’. I do not need nor want your opinion on my level of XP knowledge.

          When was the last time you rolled out an enterprise application or a new OS to thousands of users? You seem to lack the belief that somebody could actually know more about XP than you, citing some rudimentary XP functions!

          I configure servers RAID arrays, enterprise level storage arrays, clusters, NAS & SAN’s. XP’s disk management is nothing compared to this.

          I write scripts in VB and MS Script to get things done on XP deployments.

          I deploy COM+ enabled applications and configure their security settings for Intranets and applications.

          If my XP crashed beyond repair I just reboot and call the image from the RIS servers – no time to mess around for a day to work out a problem.

          Patching – deployed WSUS and let that worry about it. All updates are tested on VMWARE machines before being approved for mass deployment.


          I DO NOT need to know more about XP to get my job done. I DO however need to know more about Vista and its deployment as it no doubt will be the standard desktop in the near future.

          IT is partly about looking forward. This SITE is specifically geared towards ‘new technology’ as its primary focus.

          “TechRepublic provides real world advice on how to make technology work in business.” –

          OK AARON!

        • #2511131

          TechMale: What’s all the hate for :-)

          by techexec2 ·

          In reply to Once Again

          Nice rant! 🙂

        • #2498092


          by now left tr ·

          In reply to Once Again

          You know, just one of those days. Plus baker was getting up my nose with is “You don’t know XP rubbish” 🙂

        • #2509617

          Baking in the Glory

          by now left tr ·

          In reply to Once Again

          Bake, Bake, Baker

          OK Enough – Call it quits???

        • #2490081

          M$ working? Ok…

          by shaun.g ·

          In reply to yeah

          How long did you say you had your new “working” vista installed pc? I would suspect that its not long… lets talk about this 2working2 vista in a few months, after much browsing, possibly installing and or removing software, and then we will see how “good” it is.

          Whenever a piece of software is removed from windows, it leaves behind trace deposits all the time…and these clog up the system.

    • #2490143

      Who’s hating? I just don’t need any of Vista’s features.

      by absolutely ·

      In reply to vista…whats all the hate for?

      Some of them sound nice, but not nice enough for the expense & time of installation. The CEO of Symantec has already explained it, so I won’t bother:

    • #2490139

      5 stages of OS Grief

      by homusonline ·

      In reply to vista…whats all the hate for?

      Remember the 5 stages of grief from “On Death and Dying” by Elsabeth Kubler-Ross. This seems to apply to a new OS roll-out.

      I am not upgrading to this new thing. It won’t even catch on. And it is not all that great, nobody will want this.
      Another new OS? It doesn’t work right, takes too much space for an OS, and M$ is not getting any more money out of me. I mean, c’mon, I just got XP to work right.
      Well, maybe if they fix the driver issues, and knock a hundred off the price. I think I could upgrade.
      You bought how many licenses? And you want it by when?
      Well, since everything I order has it pre-loaded, and it is what the boss wants, let me get started.

      Sorry, just a little creepy fun to try to lighten the mood. Maybe I do just need a little more sleep.

      • #2490126

        I’d upvote this . . .

        by apotheon ·

        In reply to 5 stages of OS Grief

        . . . if I could.

      • #2493682

        This is so getting posted in the office

        by jmgarvin ·

        In reply to 5 stages of OS Grief

        Classic! I’m sure this will make the email rounds soon too 😉

        Oh, just for an FYI, I’m stuck in Anger right now 🙂

    • #2490125

      Windows Vista: The “Woe” starts now…

      by techexec2 ·

      In reply to vista…whats all the hate for?

      Ballmer delivered a sobering message at a press event yesterday. Vista has been on sale for just 2.5 weeks and they are already backpedaling and making excuses.

      If you couldn’t run your Windows 3.1 and DOS applications BETTER on Windows 95 than on Windows 3.1 (or as well, or at all), Windows 95 would not have been the explosive and runaway success it was beginning in August 1995.

      Vista’s problem is … Vista itself.

      Some quotations:

      [b][i]”I don’t think that much new money is going to race out of the consumers’ pockets into PCs,”[/i] Ballmer said.[/b]

      [b][i]”Every new Windows release is not necessarily a huge revenue-growth opportunity,”[/i] Ballmer said.[/b]

      [b][i]”Ballmer said Vista would create a “small surge” in PC sales in fiscal 2008, but would not spur a big increase over normal growth rates.”[/i][/b]

      Backpedaling… Can you imagine the CEO of any other Fortune 50 company getting away with making comments like this right after a major product release under development for six years?? If this were not Microsoft, I would predict Ballmer out within 12 months and Gates returning as CEO.

      [b][i]”Retail sales to users installing the software on existing PCs have spiked since Vista became available, though not to the levels seen when Vista’s predecessor, Windows XP, launched in 2001.”[/i][/b]

      Before the launch, Microsoft said Vista adoption would be [u]better[/u] than XP adoption was. This is a [u]very[/u] telling metric.

      [b][i]Ballmer cited software piracy in some emerging markets as at least part of the reason for slower Vista sales. “Chips don’t get stolen in some of these countries and software does,”[/i] Ballmer said.[/b]

      BULLSH*T!! Piracy is nothing new in the far east. So, sales cannot be “slower” because of that. But, sales CAN be slower because people who actually buy Windows are not buying THIS Windows. I know of one such customer: Me.

      Besides, wasn’t that annoying Activation feature that legitimate customers HATE supposed to fix this problem for Microsoft?? If it doesn’t fix the problem in the far east, WHY ARE ALL OF US LEGITIMATE CUSTOMERS BEING INCONVENIENCED AND ANNOYED??

      [b][i]”[Microsoft stock] Shares have declined about 3.3 percent since Vista and Microsoft’s other flagship product, Office 2007, were broadly launched Jan. 30.”[/i][/b]

      That’s not what happens when a highly successful mass-market product is released. This is especially notable since the stock has been flat for the last six (6) years and customers have been waiting for the new product for the same amount of time.

      [b][i]Microsoft Corp. Chief Executive Steve Ballmer tempered the expectations of analysts at an event Thursday, telling them their predictions for sales of the company’s new operating system are too high, while those for its operating expenses may be too low.[/i][/b]

      Let’s see… Revenue will be lower and expenses higher. Time to sell MSFT…



      Ballmer delivers sobering message at Microsoft event

      Ballmer: Vista forecast too rosy

      Ballmer cautions on sales of Vista,1,2275356.story?coll=la-headlines-technology

      Microsoft’s Ballmer Seeks to Tone Down Vista Estimate (Update1)

    • #2490058
    • #2490057

      Not all of us are Computer stupid-Vista crashed 3-PC’s it was tested on.

      by techpro34yrs. ·

      In reply to vista…whats all the hate for?

      I was a Beta tester for Vista and I’m in my 29th year being a technician. I do have a knownledge regarding drivers/software and which ones to use for Vista. I would say that I have some experience. I found Vista extremely buggy and 3 out of 4 computers I tested Vista on, CRASHED! One of those computers would not even let me remove Vista from the Hard Drive. Had to use Boot and Nuke which ran for 5 hours and 36 minutes before the Hard Drive was usable again.
      Sounds like you hit on luck with your installation. Try Vista on several same and different types of computers and watch what happens.

      I noticed after your name, it said Student! Well Student, load Vista on several PC’s, sit back and learn! If you dare.
      Let us all know what your outcome is.

      • #2490020

        I am also a MS Beta Tester-3 computers with Vista installed

        by michael l hereid sr ·

        In reply to Not all of us are Computer stupid-Vista crashed 3-PC’s it was tested on.

        and none crashed on me. All had differant chipsets(ATI-nVidia and VIA). About only crash was with video card drivers(not any more-better drivers).
        What’s with 5 and 1/2 hours to format a harddrive?

        • #2489931

          long format time

          by apotheon ·

          In reply to I am also a MS Beta Tester-3 computers with Vista installed

          If you had bothered to do a search for “boot and nuke”, mentioned as the means of formatting the driver, you’d have seen that something called Darik’s Boot And Nuke is the number one Google hit for that search term. It does a complete, secure drive clear, not just a quick format, meant to clear the drive of all data — including any left over artifacts of a Microsoft Windows install gone bad.

          Such a format would require a couple things, at minimum: a boot sector cleaning, and a repeated write/erase cycle over the entire capacity of the drive. With the current size of hard drives, I’m surprised it [b]only[/b] took that long to do such a thorough cleaning job. If that was actually necessary to do that to get the system working again, the MS Windows Vista install must have [b]really[/b] screwed things up.

        • #2493685

          I have used computers since 1984 way before hardrives

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to long format time

          and have never ran into that problem.

        • #2493681

          Wait until Vista hoses up your MBR

          by jmgarvin ·

          In reply to I have used computers since 1984 way before hardrives

          I recently had this happen on a test box. I couldn’t touch the MBR with any tools..It was unwritable/unreadable.

          I had to boot and nuke the box to bring it back to life…loads of fun.

        • #2493676

          I had a client whose box required that sort of treatment.

          by apotheon ·

          In reply to I have used computers since 1984 way before hardrives

          I had a client — we (the consultancy) used to call him “the Luddite” because he was such an incompetent terror with technology — who had a habit of ignoring advice because it wasn’t as fresh in his mind as the marketing message he’d heard on a given day. His little bitty company had three computers in it, two desktops and a server. Initially all three were XP, though the server eventually got migrated to SuSE Linux Professional 8.0 (thank goodness).

          One day, about two days after we’d cautioned him carefully, at length, and in no uncertain terms against installing Service Pack 2 on his systems until we had a chance to check out compatibility issues so nothing would get hosed up, both his computer and the receptionist’s computer popped up a little notification about the security benefits of SP2. Well, that sounded just dandy, so he told it to go ahead.

          His computer was fine afterward, with the exception of some stuff that wasn’t working properly because of the firewall that was activated in the default Microsoft configuration (which is to say: it was activated with a very brainless, designed to make things painful but not secure, configuration). The receptionist’s computer, meanwhile, stopped working altogether.

          It turned out that SP2’s “security” features decided that the driver for the SATA controller wasn’t properly certified for use with Windows, so it uninstalled the thing. Unfortunately, that controller was for the OS drive. Trying to boot the system would get it to a certain (early) point, and fail out.

          First, I had to recover the data. Then, I had to reinstall the OS — and yes, I did try to repair the OS before reinstalling, but XP SP2 was having none of that.

          It turned out that something had been changed in the boot sector of the drive, so a simple reinstall wasn’t enough.

          . . . and that’s the story of how I had to stop one hair short of a low-level format just to get Windows working again after SP2 was installed.

          By the way, when we reminded him that we’d asked him to avoid installing SP2 until we’d had a chance to do something about it, and to not touch anything until I arrived (twenty minutes later) with toolkit in hand, he panicked and tried to use Add/Remove Programs to uninstall SP2 on his own system, where SP2 was actually not screwing up the system. That, however, killed it.

          Yeah, we called him “the Luddite”.

        • #2511137

          I have also been working with computers a long while

          by rclark2 ·

          In reply to I had a client whose box required that sort of treatment.

          And yes, I have had to low level format systems before.

          In almost all cases, those low level formats were caused by OS data purposely being written to out of bound tracks for security purposes.

          MS is serious about catching prirates and virus programs, and that is one way to do it. Don’t know if they did or not, but when you control the kernel, you can do anything you want with the OS. It’s all light switches, either hardware or software.

          So if you reinstall over a previous version of the OS, and there is data in an out of bound track, then reformating the hard drive or reparing the installation won’t get rid of your security problem. That is why it is done.

          You have to low level format with reset of the disk sectors to erase out of bound data. I’ve even had to low level format with a change in sector size, then change back to get rid of some data.

          So much is automatic now that I try not to play with bits and bytes at that level anymore. Just let them have their way and it usually works better. But all this technology is still built the same way it always was. So at the hardware level, it acts the same as it aways did. Faster yes, smaller and more compact, but still bits and bytes.

      • #2506348

        yes thats me

        by norehca ·

        In reply to Not all of us are Computer stupid-Vista crashed 3-PC’s it was tested on.

        im a student in high school! Still have learning to do and thats why i start these discussions because i love to hear peoples opinions and what they think and why. I learn alot from these discussions. I have tried the beta versions and they sucked in my opinion. Couldnt even get it connected to the internet! Of course i had a wierd configuration at the time with my pc being used as a router because we didnt have one at the time. Thats not excuse obviously. But Vista in my experience has improves a ton since beta. Ive installed Vista on one other computer as well, my sisters. Has an AMD Athlon 2400+ or something and 1GB of RAM. It has a Radeon 9600 XT and runs Vista fine. My mother also got a laptop with Vista and it works fine but of course it came pre-installed so that doesnt count. I have yet to try it on any other computer.

    • #2506366

      Would you like to change your original statement?

      by homusonline ·

      In reply to vista…whats all the hate for?

      Found this:

      Apparently that Vista install is not quite as shiny anymore. I say we turn this over as another chapter in a typical M$ OS roll-out.

    • #2490432

      Well it’s obvious….

      by willda ·

      In reply to vista…whats all the hate for?

      that you are posting just to get a response (good or bad…mostly bad I suspect) or to see your writings on a web page. You’ve had your share of problems as you other threads clearly show.
      I had a friend who is in the computer retail & repair business tell me a little (true) tale a few years ago, that I will share with you.

      This friend had a call from a lady who wanted a quote for a new pc. She told him what she wanted to be able to do with it, so he could guess at the hardware she needed. He gave her his quote (which she liked) then she asked: “What’s your 24 hours tech support phone number?” He explained that he had only a small business and that he would gladly take support calls during business hours (8am-5pm). She said “I need a 24 hours toll-free number!” This raised a bunch of red flags for him and he asked ” Why do you need a 24 hour toll-free number?” She then told him that she often sets up all night playing with & breaking things and “Had to have” the 24 hour support. He told her that Dell and Gateway could help her. What he didn’t tell her was that he did not need HER business THAT bad. IMHO this is a perfect description of you and many others who know just enough to be dangerous at the keyboard of a pc.

      Sorry, I had not meant this to be a major flame. Just got a little too high on my soap box. I learned by playing with things (back on DOS 6 and WFW 3.11) but I used my head to work through the problems I created (and reinstalled a bunch of times)and never created problems on critical systems.


      There I fell better now that I have vented a little bit!

      • #2490208

        Ahhh memories

        by homusonline ·

        In reply to Well it’s obvious….

        For some reason this just really made me nostalgic for my DOS 6.22 and MENUITEM infested AUTOEXEC.BAT file.

        2.) Expanded Memory Games
        3.) Extended Memory Games

        Simplicity lost….

        • #2511309
          Avatar photo

          I must have got off easy

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to Ahhh memories

          I never used M$ DOS I always used DR DOS and had far fewer problems than anyone running M$ DOS.

          I lost count of the number of machines that I changed from M$ DOS to DR DOS and I was still using DR DOS when Windows 95 was loaded. OH the Good Old Days.


    • #2511138

      My company cannot get XP to work yet…

      by it cowgirl ·

      In reply to vista…whats all the hate for?

      I work for a fairly large company, and they cannot get XP to work in the worldwide environment yet. Mainly because it is not yet a single IT group, but still a conglomerations of many companies with different IT systems. Therefore, to many differences to equal a whole.

      It is getting closer, though. Maybe this year XP will happen on most systems.

      I don’t see Vista hapening…ever.

      • #2511025

        Time to switch to Linux!

        by silversidhe ·

        In reply to My company cannot get XP to work yet…

        If you still haven’t got xp working then maybe you should be spending your time switching over to linux since it is more stable and very easy to upgrade.

    • #2511076

      Just one of many countless reasons to avoid Vista

      by jkorpan1.spam ·

      In reply to vista…whats all the hate for?

    • #2510318

      Too expensive

      by foringmar ·

      In reply to vista…whats all the hate for?

      When XP came on the market I decided not to buy.
      Too expensive in terms of privacy. Product activation. Think about product activating Your bathtub, Your automobile and soforth. No. Not me. So I stayed with win2k.
      I bought new iron a year ago. Vista will not run on that. Not enough memory. Perhaps some other things also.
      To expensive in terms of hardware requirements. And in terms of privacy.
      It is not Microsofts or anybody elses business what OS I run on my computer. If it is, it’s not my computer anymore. It’s theirs.
      Buy the way. My OS is legal. No pirate copy.

      • #2498312

        i agree

        by norehca ·

        In reply to Too expensive

        that is very annoying. and by the way i have no pirated copies of any OS. Ok ill admit a while back i wanted to check media cneter edition out and got a copy of that. but i only used it breifly and its in a land fill somewhere now.

        anyway are you STILL using windows 2000? I ran into some networking problems with 2000. And after using XP it ust felt so outdated. I dunno.

      • #2498299

        Brings up another batch of M$ questions

        by homusonline ·

        In reply to Too expensive

        Product activation was supposed to be there to reduce piracy. M$ came out saying how good of a job it did at fighting piracy. Yet, one of reasons for the huge price of Windows, according to M$, is due to piracy of their software. If product activation was so successful at reducing piracy, why has the price not gone down? And if product activation did not reduce piracy, why still use it when there have been so many complaints? Was product activation another thing not as successful as reported?

        Product activation just seems to be another “because they can” element from M$. And the spin about it does not help my confidence in them, nor answer my questions about it.

        • #2498230

          The answer is simple…

          by techexec2 ·

          In reply to Brings up another batch of M$ questions

          The price of a product is not determined by the cost of manufacturing or the amount of thievery/piracy. It is strictly determined by what the market will bear.

          There is a little co-dependent sickness going on in the world. Product manufacturers lie to customers saying that product sales price is determined by the cost of manufacturing, distribution, and sales. Customers accept and internalize this lie so they don’t have to face the truth that the manufacturers are making a huge profit at their expense.

          The price is as high as it is because you are willing to pay it. It’s as simple as that.

          Microsoft makes PLENTY of money (1).


          Microsoft is one of the biggest cash machines the world has ever seen. They generate an OBSCENE amount of profit each year.

          Revenue……………… : $44.3 BILLION
          Profit………………. : $18.2 BILLION
          Employees……………. : 71,000
          Revenue per employee….. : $623,000
          Profit per employee…… : $257,000


          For comparison: Another highly regarded and highly successful company, but it has a very different financial profile:

          Revenue……………… : $91.1 BILLION
          Profit………………. : $12.2 BILLION
          Employees……………. : 366,000
          Revenue per employee….. : $249,000
          Profit per employee…… : $33,300


          (1) Microsoft Annual Income Statement FY 2003 through 2006

          (2) IBM Annual Income Statement FY 2002 through 2005

        • #2498160
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          M$ Provide Pirate Software themselves

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to Brings up another batch of M$ questions

          In one Action Pack everything came up as Illegal Software provided directly from M$.

          I got a good laugh out of that one though it really was a serious problem.

          But at a Partners Meeting in November the Head of M$ Technical told us that he ran a test here in AU to measure how much Pirate M$ Windows was in use. Any of the extra software that was available for Windows you could either chose to Validate your Software or not and just download the software additions and 30% of people didn’t Validate the Software so by their reasoning 30% of all Windows installations where Pirate. It didn’t matter that if you where downloading several different programs you have to validate with each download so many people just said [b]Stuff It[/b] and downloaded what they wanted and hence the high % of unvalidated Windows Products being used where shown by M$ testing. I asked what was the drop in downloads since Validation was now required for all of these downloads and they haven’t bothered to actually measure this so they are unaware of the fact that many people just downloaded what they required and didn’t bother to validate.

          Even better to justify their position they haven’t done any extra testing to see if there has been a drop in downloads as they work from the principal that people steal from them so they take the easy approach and don’t look at the big picture.

          I’m sure that some of the Windows was Pirate software but no where near as much as M$ was claiming and I was contributing to that 30% by not bothering to Validate every download as it took time which I couldn’t afford most times with every download.

          Now with the Volume License Product you need to Activate it since Vista hit the streets and that stinks as every time that you do any work on one of these machines you will most likely need to reactivate it and waste more time & energy than you should.


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