Windows Forum·65,670 discussions

Watching a slow motion train wreck……again.

Locked

Since Win 3.0 I’ve watched MS come out wit v3.1,
Win 95, Win 98 and 98se, 2000, ME, and now we have XP. Each version was supposed to fix the bugs in the last version and offer improved features in the new. Now, as a MS “partner” I get an email informing me to be alert for the upcoming ‘download Tuesday’ and in the same email I’m reminded to watch for the ‘new and improved’ Vista which will solve all the problems of XP and offer new features. It’s deja vu all over again. When will MS get ONE version right before selling/releasing the next version????
Jack

Topic

If they got it right

In reply to Watching a slow motion train wreck……again.

You wouldn’t have to buy it again 🙂

Exposure

In reply to If they got it right

Do the math:

bugs = no_of_users * (mis)^configurations

As for my experience MS products have worked for me since dos. Enjoy the software you did not write as much as yours.

Cheers

Fix…

In reply to Watching a slow motion train wreck……again.

I think that they do fix the issues of the last version and give you some improvement of function but why wouldn’t a newer version have it’s problems? I guess I am one of the people who have come to see that no software, computer, or anything for that matter will be perfect if made, thought of, or conceptulized by humans.

Then why are the first few rounds of patches

In reply to Fix…

in the new OS to fix problems known about in the previous or earlier OS versions?

It’s because they don’t bother fixing the base code at all. They just keep adding to it and making it less stable and more buggy.

Isn’t it the same with any other OS?

In reply to Then why are the first few rounds of patches

Now, here’s another Microsoft bash…

A new OS release means new features added, and of course, bug fixes. This is the same no matter what OS you can think of, not Windows only.

If you think that a new version of Linux (or other OS other than Windows) contains only new cool features, without bugfixes, you’re wrong. No software is perfect, and that includes your favorite OS, whatever that is, and no matter how much you feel the need to write its name on your T-shirt.

To say that every Window version was released to fix bugs only it’s a mistake; sure you don’t want to say WinXP contains absolutely no new features from those found in Win2K, ’cause I don’t believe you. And Vista also has loads of cool features, no matter how much you want to refuse to believe it.

It’s good to criticize Microsoft, but don’t do it just because you can, or for the wrong reasons.

It’s one thing to have new bugs, the problem with MS is the old bugs

In reply to Isn’t it the same with any other OS?

When Win XP came out the first sets of patches were for bugs that were identified and patched in Win 98, Win 98SE and Win 2000 (even some from Win 95). Now the serious question is how come they did a new kernel (haha – but they said they did) for Win XP and include all those old bugs?

At least with Linux the latest kernel does NOT come with the bugs of the old one.

Vista WMF flaw…I thought the WMF flaw was fixed!?

In reply to It’s one thing to have new bugs, the problem with MS is the old bugs

Ya, that’s right, you get the SAME WMF flaw in Vista that you got in Win9x-WinXP.

You also get the same registry flaws, same permission flaws, same IE flaws (plus tabbing), same media player flaws, same kernel flaws, etc ad nausium.

MS hasn’t created a new OS since Win NT 4.0. It’s the same kernel OVER AND OVER AND OVER. In the industry they call that turd polishing…

Agreed

In reply to Fix…

To expect anything made with human rationalization and knowledge to be perfect is ludicrous. And even if MS did make a “perfect” OS, what’s to say what is perfect to some is the same perfect to others. There will always be error because of the human factor. I think MS does as much as it can do to ensure a reliable product but because other software is introduced into the mix, things happen.

I agree humans aren’t perfect but it is reasonable to

In reply to Agreed

expect a fault found in one version of their software doesn’t reappear in the next version or the one after that – but MS seem incapable of fixing basic faults in their software. The first patches for Win 2000 and Win XP were for security holes and bugs identified in Win 95 and Win 98 – and some of those same holes required patches in the Win Vista Beta. They aren’t interested in getting it right.

Job Security

In reply to Watching a slow motion train wreck……again.

If they got it 100% right, alot of us on here would be out of a job. 🙂

100% is exactly right

In reply to Job Security

If they got it 100% right I’d be unemployed. Working on Windows is like working on old plumbing. Each time you fix one thing, something near it breaks and you might wind up being there for hours. I couldn’t count the number of engineers, technicians, administrators etc. whose families depend on the complex fragility of Windoze.

I think not.

In reply to Job Security

Bug free code or Software that actually does what it is supposed to is not going to put anyone out of a job.

Paranoid people have bee fighting this ever since the those wooden shod workers tossed their shoes into the works and coined the phrase ‘Sabotage’

I have seen story after story predecting that robot and computers are going to replace people and we will all be out of a job. Instead we replace worker with robot and promote him to ‘robot operator’ or ‘programmer’.

I do agree that the tech industry does own Mr Gates, and Mr Jobs a great ‘thank you’, but for helping to found and create an industry. But in the same way that the auto workers should thank Mr Ford.

A good OS and bug free software would let you do interesting and inovative things instead of having to spen hours solveing the same problem over and over. (And then solving the same problem in a different way in the next version when the solution stops working!)

I cant say i agree with you

In reply to I think not.

“Bug free code or Software that actually does what it is supposed to is not going to put anyone out of a job.”
– I have never been asked to fix a Linux box outside of work, or an updated, hardened Windows box. I have been paid to fix a ton of Windows boxes both privately and at work.

“I have seen story after story predicting that robot and computers are going to replace people and we will all be out of a job. Instead we replace worker with robot and promote him to ‘robot operator’ or ‘programmer’.
– This statement is so erroneous. If that were the case, there would be significantly more programmers (or just people) than actual robots rendering the robots totally an inefficient waste of money. Plus, I don?t think a regular “floor” worker could typically program a robot with out some serious training.

MS OS problems are great for me. Even though I work s an IT person, I still get to fix peoples computers on the weekends. Even though it is SO satisfying to me as a hobby, I also get to charge for my services. It?s a beautiful thing.

You have the right to dissagree

In reply to I cant say i agree with you

but you will just be wrong.

I too used to fix computers on the side for money, and I agree that they were 90% MS, I did fix a few Apple and Mac machines back in the day. But I have stopped charging, and stopped having time. Now that I am working 60 hr weeks on servers and databases, I don’t need 20 to 50 bucks that Sam and Sally user would give me to come over and help them install a printer.

Nowadays when those calls come in, I ask them if they have a neighbor with a teenager that likes computers and that they should ask him for help.

The statement about robots and factory workers is also from experience. I have worked in automotive plants, and there are still people there. The robots are more accurate, and faster, and almost tireless, but they do require the humans to program, maintain and monitor them.

My company does supply chain automation. But we are not just making the existing supply chain better. We are doing things that were impossible to do, or so time consuming as to be not worth the trouble before.

Yet I carry a pager 24/7/365. I do that because no matter how well we anticipate the process sometimes things go wrong. We don’t need the software or OS developers giving us bugs, we have enough problems with what we are developing thanks.

Mr Gates and Mr Jobs-thank you

In reply to I think not.

Mr Gates was employed by IBM , to supply an operating system for the Personal Computer they ORIGINATED. Mr Gates purchased the DOS OS from it’s developer and called it MS DOS .
At least Mr Jobs and his mate (whose name I can’t spell) did it all themselves.

Bruce

You are not alone…

In reply to Watching a slow motion train wreck……again.

http://techrepublic.com.com/5208-6230-0.html?forumID=89&threadID=197840&start=0

🙂

Who Cares?

In reply to Watching a slow motion train wreck……again.

Whether or not MS can release an operating system that meets your requirements is not relevant. Have you ever heard the expressions “progress”? Or “advances in technology”? As a support professional I owe my lively hood to Mr. Gates? flawed systems.
The state of the OS has little to do with the mass computing publics’ ability to make use of it and, more importantly for us who support it and them, the trouble keeps us employed.
Besides, I really don’t know how the engineers who develop the OS can possibly account for each and every circumstance that the millions of users engaging it daily might uncover. Indeed some, albeit a minority, pick at it solely to reveal weaknesses constantly. They are also MS Developers in an off hand way. There are many “beta testers” who put the OS under some stress also. But if people stopped reporting deficiencies, the OS will remain flawed and vulnerable. If you?re not a fan of MS, the last thing you would want is to help them make a better product.
The system in place is quite efficient really. Release a stable (relatively?) system and update with patch after patch. Thank you anonymous developers for you vigilance.
Alternatives you may be thinking of do the same. The Linux kernel is stable and is continually updated by the hundred of thousands of people who participate in advancing it.
The Apple OS – well that is a mystery to me – so I really don’t have anything to say about it.
There may never again be a perfect OS. An OS without problems or the need to be updated periodically will likely never exist. Even the venerable DOS, omitted from your list of OS?s from MS, went through several versions. Virtually gone now – don?t look too deeply into the current Windows ver (XP) though.
Go back to sleep and keep dreaming of the utopian computing world where there are no crashes or losses of data – crashed heads or failed modems.
Where there is no need for computing support people or anyone else who makes their living in this imperfect computing world I for one enjoy.\
L#

Win3.1

In reply to Watching a slow motion train wreck……again.

The high point of MS was Win3.1. I used it for 5 years on a TRS Notebook (Which I still have) over in saudi Arabia, and it was stable. It didn’t print spool worth a damn, but it didn,t crash after 7 hours for no reason like Win 95. Since then operations have been downhill. MS does a version of something and then they must take all the coders out and shoot them! each version is a completely new experience with no concept of a standard.
John Stankowich 7/31/06

Yeah, but…

In reply to Win3.1

You just reminded me. I, too, loved Win 3.1. I fought like h*** for about two years before I finally gave in and put Win95 on our machines, but I have to say I came to like it. It really *was* better at running three or more programs at once. Same thing happened with Win98. I finally surrendered and installed it after Second Edition came around, and I liked it better than Win95. Things went downhill after that, though. We got some new machines with WinXP Home Edition, and I was delighted when another reorganization forced us to switch to Win 2000 Pro. Good grief, how Home Edition sucked. I don’t know if XP Pro was any better, and I don’t intend to ever find out.

I do often wish I could go back to Win 3.1, though.

The difference between Win 3.x and Win 9x was

In reply to Yeah, but…

that Win 3.x was a 16 bit operating system, while Win 9x was a 32 bit operating system. At one point MS put out a little program called WIN32S, you ran this in Win 3.x and it turned it into a 32 bit opertaing system that peformed better than Win 9x. After they released Win 98SE MS pulled WIN32S off their list of doownloads, a few of us still have it and can set Win 3.x up as a 32 bit opertaing system.

Not quite

In reply to The difference between Win 3.x and Win 9x was

While it’s true that Windows 3.x was a 16-bit OS, it’s not true that Win9x was fully 32-bit, as it had a heavy reliance on 16-bit subsystems.

Win32S was an extension to Windows 3.x that allowed execution of certain 32-bit applications using a subset of the Win32 API. 32-bit addresses were mapped to 16-bit addresses through “thunking” (which even Win9x/Me used heavily. I jokingly refer to Win9x as a “24-bit” operating system, but it’s more of a hybrid 16/32-bit OS.)

They may have reduced the visibility of PW1118.EXE (the Win32S installer) but it’s still available here: ftp://ftp.microsoft.com/softlib/mslfiles/pw1118.exe
However, it’s about as effective in turning Win3.x into a 32-bit operating system as DOS4/G is in turning DOS into a 32-bit OS.

yeah you nailed the coffen

In reply to Watching a slow motion train wreck……again.

I remember all of them, but Bill Gates nerver wrote any of his software, he stole it. According to the movie pirates of the silicon valley he stole it and change it up a bit. I got to give Bill Gate credit for is his marketing strategy force feeding us the software until we think we need it. Take a good look at one company that got it right Volkwage remember the beatle they kept the basic design for over 30 years in the usa improving on the past changing the design a bit and keeping the car simple to use. I’m no fan of Microsoft software since you can’t uninstall any of the compent like internet explorer, outlook express or media player, I cam remember back when you can uninstall these components on 98se now you can’t with xp. Microsoft will never produce a flawd free operating system until the change its way of thinking and cry foul every time some one else like mozilla, corel and netscape to name a few put out a better software its a global market out ther you got to be better than the rest and microsoft can’t be.

Expectatons?

In reply to Watching a slow motion train wreck……again.

Someone wrote once that windows uses 40 million lines of code that has multiple thousands of features that were developed over many years by many different authors under many different conditions.

If I was a sw development manager at MS, how would I go about designing and testing a mix of new, modified, and old code differently?

Love MS, or hate them, There are what they are

In reply to Expectatons?

While it is hard not to hate what we have to live with as far as OS is concerned, we still have the freedom of choice. Most of us would jump ship in a heart beat given a better choice was available. For some of us, that would be Linux. You have to give MS credit for marketing something you must depend on for so much that give us so much grief. For that, some of us have our jobs. I guess was gets most of us so worked up is just how we got ourselves here in the first place. We are IT folks that must depend on that what is not dependable. So I ask you this, do you use MS at your home?
For me, I just don’t like how MS got to where they are and how they push the rest of the industry around. But that is just me. For the record, I use Linux, MS, and OS X on three different systems.

Patching, patching, …

In reply to Love MS, or hate them, There are what they are

Are you telling me that you have your job because of M$ and its patches ?
Do you do nothing else but patching on your user’s machines (desktops) and your employer’s servers ???

I wouldn’t want to work there, never.
How boring …

@

Don’t know how many lines of code but Linux

In reply to Expectatons?

Has been going for twenty years with hudnreds, probably thousands, of people involved in writting code for its kernel; and many more for the other processes. They manage to check all their code and get it mostly right, and the few bugs that do get in are quickly and PERMANENTLY fixed – they do NOT show up again in the next version.

MS will patch a bug in Win 95, then again in Win 98, Win 2000, Win XP same bug similar patch because they never fix the original code.

The difference is due to the approaches used. The Linux guys write tight moduled code, so you can check a module at a time. I gather from the MS ‘experts’ that MS must write like a huge ancient monolithic fortran program – reams of code with gets etc and not modules being called. Now checking that is horrendnous – but then that approach was dropped by all decent programmers back in the 1980s.

Size of OS vs processor speed

In reply to Don’t know how many lines of code but Linux

Deadly,
I have often wondered if there was a relationship between the speed of the Intel chips and the size of the MS OS. Has the speed of the chip sets been driven to make up for the lack of speed, due to size of a given OS? It would explain some things. Now that Apple is now on a Intel chip, I wonder how it matches up!

They don’t call it Wintel for nothing

In reply to Size of OS vs processor speed

thats the special lobby group and joint working party organisation that MS Windows and Intel have made. Wintel is the prime mover behind Secure Computing – that little system where you will HAVE to have the latest hardware and software, registered with their central computer just to be able to read your own files, or get an e-mail.

But it does seem that the expansion of both CPU speed and MS Windows bloat does go along at the same rates. When I usud to load Win 95 onto a 486/50 Mhz machines for people it took about an hour, when you load Win XP on to a P4/3 Ghz machine it takes about an hour – the speed has increased by a factor of 60 in the speed and the processor capability has increased by a factor of about 50 (based on advertising hype over the years) 486 to P4, all up that’s an increased capability of 3,000 yet it takes the same amount of time, thus the bloat must be by the same factor. What’s in all that crappy code.

Bugs in Code

In reply to Don’t know how many lines of code but Linux

Code audits have shown that ANY software will have between 5 and 50 bugs per thousand lines of code, PERIOD. Linux, Windows or any other software, doesnt matter. The only thing that makes a difference in the number of bugs is the number of lines of code. Every Hacker knows this and uses it to there advantage. This discussion is pointless because the only software that does not have bugs is the software that is unwritten.

HELLO JACK M

In reply to Watching a slow motion train wreck……again.

IF YOU REALLY WANT JUNK!!!!

GO LINUX!!!!!

LOOK WHAT IBM DID FOR LINUX!!!!

WELL, ALL YOU MICROSOFT HATERS LISTEN UP.

WINDOWS VISTA WILL BRING IN BILLIONS OF DOLLARS.

JACK M, WHAT HAVE YOU DONE TO PROMOTE FREEDOM AND WEALTH FOR THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA????????

Windows 3.1-you’ve got to be kidding!!!

In reply to HELLO JACK M

I could go on a rant, but ! 3.1 !–lol!!!!

Look at the advances in hardware (can I say contiguous memory?), the demands that desktop aps place on new systems, & all the new stuff that users are doing–dare I say digital imaging, mp3 decoding, dvd recording etc. etc.

Aside from:
1. the obvious marketer-driven mistakes like WIndows ME and XP Home (there is no special pure “home” market, except as a price point!!!–stop breaking the OS & telling us that there is, Mr Gates); and,
2. despite every script kiddy and so-called hackers’ attempts to break Windows code,
from Win 2000, MS has created an adequate, mostly stable 32 bit O/S.

Ironically, the other mistake was not being ruthless enough in jettisoning the legacy crap–M$ shoulda been more like Apple, & cut all the old users of outmoded crap off at the knees.

My biggest complaint with VISTA is less that it may not be stable, but that a huge portion of the development costs is for M$’s own security requirements to stop piracy–a problem which is compounded by their willingness to get into bed with the so-called content producers and act as the digital police of the world, when they should tell the content producers that what people do with an O/S is their own damn business!

Hi friend,

In reply to HELLO JACK M

Is this a question friend?
LOOK WHAT IBM DID FOR LINUX!!!!

WELL, ALL YOU MICROSOFT HATERS LISTEN UP.

WINDOWS VISTA WILL BRING IN BILLIONS OF DOLLARS

JACK M, WHAT HAVE YOU DONE TO PROMOTE FREEDOM
AND WEALTH FOR THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA????????

Didn’t your Mon tell you not to shout all the time?
I pay my taxes and occasionally fix a computer for a hospital emergency room.
Linux? IBM? Linux and IBM have nothing to do with my or anyone else’s freedom.
All IBM did for Linux is offer it a chance to prove itself. The verdict isn’t in yet. I like Linux, it’s new but it has possibilities.
If you want to know what’s running your Windoze try running check disk. You have to do it from the command line in DOS.
Everything old is new again.

Freedom

In reply to HELLO JACK M

What have you done to promote freedom in USA?
I thought freedom had been abolished by George Bush and his regime of spying , phone tapping, detention without charge, no trial etc. etc
Bruce

Or Maybe Not

In reply to Watching a slow motion train wreck……again.

I have read the replies to this and have one thing to reply, what garbage. MS software has 90 Million users in the US alone, I have been in charge of a help desk and seen practically every way a user can break an OS, and these include trashing a Linux desktop and Apples OS. Of the 90 million users perhaps 10 million really know how to use their computers and protect themselves against invasion. We all want more and more features in our software and this requires more and more lines of code, add this code to millions of lines of code in Windows and there is a strong chance something is going to break, especially when we add two or three of these packages to our systems.

Windows is more prone to attack because of its popularity, security companies spend countless dollars trying to exploit the OS, and when they find something they notify MS, but also post the event on their boards with the exploit code inviting script kiddies to write a virus that exploits this and post it in the wild. The AV companies who are part of all this then proclaim that their software blocks this particular outbreak. Ain’t consumerism grand, because most of the AV software on the market will either break the OS or fill it with so many holes, Swiss cheese looks dense in comparison.

I have been testing Vista and so far I like everything I see. With Internet Explorer working in protected mode and Windows defender watching for software trying to do things it souldn’t, I am confident in the security of my system without AV software, I do use AVG which I know is owned by MS and the software works just great.

No way is the new Vista going to be perfect because no matter how much MS works to protect the 1d10ts out there, they will find a way to mess it up.

And for the guy who says Gates stole DOS, no he didn’t, he was just smarter than IBM who may of introduced the IBM PC but didn’t have any faith in its future. It was Gates who saw the direction it could take and created a DOS not reliant on an onboard chip to operate, or am I the only one that remembers that the first DOS written for IBM required a basic chip to operate making it proprietary to IBM.

Actual DOS started life with two other fellows

In reply to Or Maybe Not

who wrote it, they sold it to Bill Gates for a few thousand bucks, next to nothing, they were congratulating themselves on having ripped Billy off until he turned it into millions. Billy filed the serial numebrs off, made a few minor changes and leased it to IBM as PC-DOS. Then he made a few more minor changes and sold it as MS-DOS.

He didn’t steal it, but he didn’t tell the original owners that it was worth anything either. The concept for the Windows GUI was stolen from Apple and the Xerox labs – they were silly wnough not to patent it, so Bill did. However, becasue they proved they had the prior art he wasn’t able to stop them continuing to use it, but he did try to get a court to stop them using their own invention.

Billy makes sharks look nice.

Been watching this since DOS v3

In reply to Watching a slow motion train wreck……again.

every OS ms has released has followed this pattern. In dos v6 they had the audacity to charge people for their “upgrade” that fixed all the bugs and illegal software in dos 6.0

Windows XP and Vista

In reply to Watching a slow motion train wreck……again.

Personally, I have no problems with Windows XP. Vista, for me at least, is adding frills that are nice to look at, but are frills that I don’t necessarily need.

I love Windows XP…it’s easy to use, runs fast on my system, and is extremely stable.

The main problems that crop up are caused by the idiotic hacker community that continues to look for ways to undermine the operating system. These petty little boys need to get a life.

Windows XP and Vista

In reply to Windows XP and Vista

Personally I don’t have many problems with Windows XP. There are a few minor things, but nothing that prevents me from doing 99% of the things that I want to do. I do all of the updates and also run registry cleaners and defrag programs regularly. XP for me is a lot more reliable than 98 SE which I had on my former computer. I finally installed XP on the old Gateway, and while with only 384 Meg of ram (max I could install) it works OK, but sure not fast enough for me. I keep it as a backup in case my current computer needs repair. I turn it on every few months or so.

Actually the only problems I’ve had with XP

In reply to Windows XP and Vista

were all created by MS, the worst being the WGA. But then I have my system behind a gateway and haven’t had a virus for years. But the problems with reauthentication when I changed more than one bit of hardware, then WGA – I finally got fed up, I use software to make life easier for me not Bill Gates.

ID 10T Error….

In reply to Windows XP and Vista

For someone to post on a subject that they know very little or nothing about drives me nuts.

Windows XP, finally, after many long years, has come to be a competent OS, but that took many patches, to cover many problems with hardware issues, software conflicts, system vulnerabilities; the list just keeps going on and on. Granted, Crackers (NOT Hackers) have taken advantage of the system flaws, but they didn?t put them there, they just found them.

One case where one virus named blaster took advantage of a system flaw that traced all the way back to Windows 95. That virus infected schools, homes and government offices causing all the computers that were connected to the internet to shutdown and restart. The intent of the original virus was to take down Microsoft?s web site by causing the infected systems to turn into “zombies”. Microsoft released a patch after almost a week. Anti-virus companies had a fix and a virus definition quickly but had to prepare for the up-coming v2 viruses. Tech service providers, had lines out their doors to repair infected systems (A lot of tech shops were hit by the virus as well, so the line and wait for a lot of the first systems was over a few days). Now here is where it gets interesting. Starting from the end and tracing back, Microsoft knew of the exploit that the virus was going to take advantage almost a month before it occurred, but described the vulnerability as “Low Priority”. (FYI, the exploit was reported to Microsoft by the “idiotic” hacker community, and Microsoft promptly replied with low priority.) In hopes that Microsoft would get on with fixing the security vulnerability, the exploit was posted on major security sites, and tech new sites. Microsoft still sat. One week later, the first cases of Blaster started to post in. Now we are going to jump back a few more years, all the way back to 1994-1995 era. As computers are becoming more widely used in the workplace homes and schools, the internet was becoming a much bigger place. This was a time when you still bought your Internet Browser, Like IE or Netscape. Enter Windows 95, a new operating system, completely different the windows 3.11. You no longer needed program manager, because you had the start button… You also didn?t have to buy your browser, because IE (Internet Explorer) was already built into the OS. Well, Microsoft didn?t like competition (still doesn?t), and they left a way for their systems to remove software from your system that they saw as un-fit. It was in the original EULA for Windows 95, later removed after the second release of the OS. Now, they removed it from the EULA, wouldn?t you think they would have removed the protocol that allowed them access? Nope, that is the system vulnerability that Blaster took advantage of, it was an intentional back door to your system that Microsoft left in their OS since Windows 95, that is why when viruses that can infect Windows XP a lot of times they can infect windows 2k, ME, 98, and 95 because they are backward compatible.

For those out there that think that still think hackers are the bad guys, try again. It?s the crackers and script-kiddies, and angry exs that do the most damage. True elites have a strict code that they follow, kind of guidelines that say what they should and shouldn’t do (not can and can’t, never tell an elite what they can and can’t do).

Here is where one of the BIG differences when it comes down to hacker vs. cracker. A hacker’s true purpose is to find knowledge (because knowledge should be free). A cracker has more sinister reasons; Let it be personal gain or any other malicious intent. Script-kiddies are wanna-be hacker/crackers that think they are ‘leet’ cause they know how to use sub seven…

I?m not even going to touch the easy to use part of Windows, because I think I have ranted enough.

Don’t under estimate the “little boys” in the “hacker community”

In reply to Windows XP and Vista

The little boys are more than likely not little boys at all and the hacker community is not trying to undermine your system, the cracking community is.

Keep in mind owning systems is big business and with MS OSes the business is good. They are easy to own and easy to maintain quietly.

a matter of perspective

In reply to Watching a slow motion train wreck……again.

I began back in the days of the Commodore64 and did not do Windows until Win95. There was a day when I would gladly jump on the windows-bashing bandwagon but in all reality would we be where we are without Bill Gates and Windows? It is my perception that Microsoft has tasked itself to provide an OS that is “everything to everybody” and by doing so has created a behemoth. Granted that the offerings from MS have not been without problems but I believe that the benefits far out weigh the negatives. All of this is not to say that I am a fan of MS but this is becoming a MS world and until something better comes out we need to learn to deal with it or just don’t use MS products. Instead of bashing discuss solutions.

Can You Do Better

In reply to Watching a slow motion train wreck……again.

I have been with Microsoft since the days of DOS and think Microsoft has done a great job in writing Operating System code. This OS works on just about every conceivable configuration of a PC and do to mention over 90% of all PC in the world and all kinds of different application software. I don’t see any other OS software out there doing what Microsoft has done. Can you write a piece of code so good that a hacker couldn’t get in and modify? I don’t think so, I don’t believe anyone can for see what a hacker could or can do to any piece of software out there. I have worked in the computer/IT field for over 20 years and there is no software out there is 100% fool proof.

Yes…Linux is better

In reply to Can You Do Better

Linux works on PPC, x86, 64bit, Alpha, and Sparcs. Can MS claim that? Linux is far superior to MS in every way when it comes to compatability. Crossplatform is just a buzzword to MS, it is a reality in Linux.

MS is built on an insecure architecture. From the integrated apps to the kludge that is the registry. Want to know why crackers target MS platforms? ‘Cause they are easy targets.

Actually there are other OSs out there doing the same

In reply to Can You Do Better

and in a much better fashion without the bloat and higehr security. Linux (many versions), BSD, Unix, Mac – and thats just the main PC levels ones, don’t forget the mainframe stuff as well.

In what world are you living….

In reply to Actually there are other OSs out there doing the same

I was just reading my Technology news and guest what is the latest new?

“Apple fixes 26 Mac OS flaws
By Joris Evers, CNET News.com
Published on ZDNet News: August 2, 2006, 5:25 AM PT”

I believe as Apple gets more popular, more flaws or hack will show up, just like Windows. But that is not all, check this one on a security program.

“Patch in for McAfee holes
By Dawn Kawamoto, CNET News.com
Published on ZDNet News: August 1, 2006, 10:40 AM PT”

If I remember, Symantac had a similar problem a couple of months ago. So even security programs have holes. I also read about updating Linux because of some flaws or holes a few months ago. My conclusion is ALL software have security holes, flaws, etc. It depends in which is more scrutinize. In this case Windows because it have over 90% of the market and that is where the money is. Linux, how many you going to find using that OS every single day? How many of their users are dump enough to not use protection? Compare to id10t out there using Windows. A hacker is going for the money. It’s going to where is net can catch more idiot fish. As Windows updates his security system and patche and close all the holes, the hackers are starting to look to different places, like Apple, Symantec, MacAfee, etc.

Nobody could foresee that the internet is the place for criminals now since robbing a bank is more dificult and dangerous.

So, I never said they were perfect, never said

In reply to In what world are you living….

any software was perfect. Just offered alternatives to MicroSoft Windows that did not have the MicroSoft ‘Shaft the customer – get the money’ attitude as bad at MS.

MS has a lot of penetration due to

1. Immoral marketting practices, some of them unlawful in some places – hence the many billions of dollars of payouts for their behavious after loosing court cases.

2. Laziness on the part of many people. Sadly this laziness in not wanting to learn something new is about to bite them as MS have made dramatic changes to their OS and people will now have a steep learning curve.

Some of the other posts point out the real problems with the MS attitude. But the recent announcement to make people pay for beta copies of software so that they can test them for MS is a good example of the MS attitude. I know several people who have done a lot of MS beta testing are simply avoiding the new Office and telling their clients that they cannot comment on how the new office will work with their other software. The flow on effect of this will be that the clients will avoid the new Office as they need software that works eamlessly with their other applications.

Flaws != insecure architecture

In reply to In what world are you living….

You have to realize that MS OSes are built on an insecure architecture. *nix is built on a secure architecture that doesn’t allow stupid thing to happen.

What really kills me is that most of the “Linux flaws” are actually 3rd party application flaws.

Progress….of course not

In reply to Watching a slow motion train wreck……again.

As a consultant myself…the answer is no….Vista will have an extra “Eye candy” and of course new tech programming..(and integrated database skeleton)…but with all progressive technologies….there are 3rd parties….hackers….engineers..manufacturers….to get anywhere near perfection we all need to be singing off the same hyme sheet..(except for hackers of course..but im sure they’ll download the “hyme sheet” and use it anyway)….its like life…theres always somebody trying to screw you over.

Here we go again

In reply to Watching a slow motion train wreck……again.

What is it that all the time someone is bashing MS and their software but they keep using it, or make a living out of it? If you do not like the product don’t use, buy it or work for it. Become a IT for Linux or Apple or go to India. Let the other foolish people suffer from MS software. Enjoy the you are one of the few who know the truth and stay at home.

Me? I always use MS product, from MS-Dos, 3.1,95,98,2000 and XP and Office 95, 2000 and XP. Never had a crash, except when the power goes out. Maybe is because I know what I am doing and the computer I repair, I take the time to explain and teach the users how to protect themself from future problem instead of whining thru every post about how bad is Microsoft.

I have and use Linux, Apple OS and so on. But I always come back to MS. It have the features that I one and need. Can use with any printer, Scanner, Camera, etc that is out there. Can you said the same thing for the other’s OS? I do not think so.

If you think you can do better, done whine. Do something about it. Make the perfect OS. I wish you good luck because there is no such thing. Nobody can make the perfect OS. Someone will find a hole and break into it. That is why, now that Apple is getting a little more popular they finding bugs and holes and getting many updates lately. That is why Linux have hundreds of versions (Distrol) and thousand of supporters are always working on it, to improve and close holes.

So embrace the new Windows Vista or change your job and go live some place else where there is no Microsoft or Windows.

version? what version?

In reply to Watching a slow motion train wreck……again.

MS has been recycling the exact same code base and getting you to buy it, over and over again.

If you want off the merry-go-round, then get linux, irix, freebsd, openbsd, netbsd,…..
[ every non ms operating system, so 29 of the 32 operating systems. ]
yes, 3 for MS, win CE, NT and 9x. [ xp identifies itself as NT 5 ]

Same comment as always

In reply to Watching a slow motion train wreck……again.

Boy,

As you know, almost everybody in this world uses windows and is NOT PERFECT but for miiiiilllllions of people it IS the best for all practical and everyday stuff. So, why complaint about this always ? if people like it ok, use it…. is your girlfriend or wife perfect ? no… are me or you so ? nooo so please it is… NORMAL… EVERY operating system has its bugs’n holes… if it is complex as others, more normal… Sorry dude, but WINDOWS is still the way because it is so used and so easy for almost everybody and its “cheap” you know what I mean… and has loooots of programs available…
I cannot be used to hear all the people always talking about the bad windows… seem so stubborn ! wake up all of you ! but it is only my small opinion… Bye !

I do think that the previous bugs should be fixed.

In reply to Watching a slow motion train wreck……again.

There should never be a repeat of a bug found (or caused) the same way as in a previous OS. That should be taken care of before the release of the next OS, if it is already a “known flaw”.

I really think that there is enough to do for all of the IT pros out in there dealing with new flaws, conflicts, etc. caused by other new software, drivers, advances in hardware, or just new devices to connect to. Not to mention the job of planning migrations, expansions, training, or budgeting (or lobbying the company) for more resources to get the job they want done.

There just is no real argument to be made in favor of not expecting previous bugs to be fixed in later versions.

Think about this possibility:

In reply to Watching a slow motion train wreck……again.

This has just been one long road on the way to making ‘Windows’ a SERVICE that is provided over the WEB and in that incarnation, you will not ever see that it is incomplete. You will be logging into a web-terminal and performing everything remotely via Redmond. Now that XP has gotten everyone used to the weekly ‘updates’, Vista will no-doubt take it to the next step and reinforce the on-line services aspect of Redmond?s offerings.

The next itineration of Windows will no doubt be the ‘WEB-SERVICE’ version. Hello dumb terminal?.d?j? vu for real yet again. You will not be purchasing the next version after Vista, you will buy a ‘subscription’ (monthly, quarterly, annually) and never have any operating system to load onto your PC, just a terminal emulation program to get you connected to the web, to log into your account with Microsoft. With this type of ‘Service’, Bill will really own your PC.

Thank You Bill and Company

In reply to Watching a slow motion train wreck……again.

As long as MS continue’s releasing buggy software we will continue to have jobs.
We need to thank Mr. Bill for all the billable hours we get.
If I had to count on billable hours for all of the SCO boxes and few Linux boxes I babysit I’d starve to death.
It’s all the PC clients that generate billable hours.

Again Thanks Mr. Bill
Keep up the good work.

MS pays the bills

In reply to Watching a slow motion train wreck……again.

All of you who replied telling me that without MS and their buggy software they would be unemployed are exactly right. ME TOO!
The day I posted the ‘train wreck’ crack was just one of those days. If it weren’t for Mr. Gates and his crew of software engineers, their and my customers/clients, I’d work about 4 hours a week. Windows and people who are kind of new to computers are my bread and butter and I never meant to imply anything else. I was annoyed at the amount of downloads I was told via email were coming and reacted badly. Thank you all who pointed that out and thank you MS.
Jack

WIN 3.1

In reply to Watching a slow motion train wreck……again.

WIN 3.1 was the apex of Windows development. Everything has been down hill since then.

Start from scratch…

In reply to Watching a slow motion train wreck……again.

MS should just start over again with the next OS. Forget compatibility. Create the kernal, give programmers and hardware MFGs one year to get compatible then release the software.

IMO the problems are not from Windows but from trying to be all things to all programs and hardware made since 1960. My gosh, I am still running a program from Win 3.1 (CardFile) and although it has run fine on all versions (including Vista Ultimate) it shows that backwards compatibility is the #1 reason people have problems with Windows. Let’s face it, a new install of Windows and the new MS programs designed for it run fine if you don’t add anything else or any strange hardware. How many people have problems with their computers as they come straight from the factory if they don’t add 3rd party software (aside from security issues which will always be with us)?

[Author]

Replies