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  • #2158460

    What comparisons do you do, to decide which brand of server to buy?

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    by jdclyde ·

    Greetings all.

    New job, has two Dell Poweredge servers.

    We need to add in a web server, will be running Windows Server 2008. (no, linux is not an option at this time, sorry. I checked.)

    I have a quote on an HP server, and management wants a quote on an IBM server (because they know that name, and associate HP with home).

    [b]The two servers I am looking at are:[/b]

    HP ProLiant ML110 G5 Server

    IBM System x3200 M2 Express Server

    Both use the same xeon CPU, (Xeon E3110 Dual-core 3GHz)
    same amount of RAM (2gig)
    Both will have two hard drives, for mirroring.
    The IBM comes with SAS drives, where the HP gave me the option for SAS or SATA.

    The TWO questions I have,

    1) what resources have you found to allow me to compare these two servers?
    2) for a web server, are the SAS drives worth getting, or overkill?

    Everything I have found so far has IBM and HP trading places on who is rated higher, depending on the category, with neither coming out a real winner. The main difference I see, the IBM will probably cost a $200/$400 more.

    Thanks for any input on this.

    jd

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    • #2937861

      Clarifications

      by jdclyde ·

      In reply to What comparisons do you do, to decide which brand of server to buy?

      Clarifications

    • #2937848

      Probably not much help, but

      by tonythetiger ·

      In reply to What comparisons do you do, to decide which brand of server to buy?

      The real cost, as you know, comes after you buy. There is something to be said for “doing what everybody else is doing” … If there are issues, someone else has probably already run into them …

      Personally, I can’t see a scenario where a web server would overtax SATA (within the expected service life of the server anyway).

      • #2939841

        SATA = overkill

        by jdclyde ·

        In reply to Probably not much help, but

        was exactly my thoughts.

        SCSI drives don’t even start to pay for themselves unless you have multiple people writing to them at a time. Haven’t looked at the SAS drives yet, other than they are 3x as expensive as the SATA.

        Is there ANY data showing one will last longer than the other?

        • #2937773

          Drive parts

          by jamesrl ·

          In reply to SATA = overkill

          As a means of saving money, many of the internals of drives, like motors, heads and platters are the same. The difference that makes a dride IDE. SATA SCSI or SAS is on the controller card – the card on the HD that the cables plug into.

          So if you go with a good vendor that uses good parts, there is little to no difference in how long their products will last based on drive type. Better brands use better materials and parts however.

          James

        • #2937740

          And as long as you’re running redundant,

          by tonythetiger ·

          In reply to SATA = overkill

          even if half of them failed, at three times the price you’d still be money ahead 🙂

        • #2937720

          Only going to mirror

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to And as long as you’re running redundant,

          I don’t see a need for Raid5.

    • #2939823

      JD as this isn’t a Novel Question I’m not answering it. :^0

      by oh smeg ·

      In reply to What comparisons do you do, to decide which brand of server to buy?

      But seriously I start off with looking at what people say about the company and if they do actually provide the service that their Sales Staff claim. After all Uptime is the Important thing here so if one claims to offer a Repair Service that gets things done quicker and actually do provide this service they get my money for similar Spec-ed systems.

      However from past experience I have always found the IBM stuff to be better hardware from a Technical Point of View at least and I’ve never had any real problems with it. But then again because I worked for them once I may be Biased. 😉

      As for your second question SAS is defiantly Overkill for a Web Server even with a Moderate High number of people hitting it at the same time you wouldn’t see any performance improvement over SATA drives, only thing I’m not sure of is the Power Requirements of SAS over SATA they just may be cheaper to run I have that feeling so I maybe read it somewhere, so if saving money on running costs is important they may be worth it from that Prospective particularly if the company is claiming to be [b]”Green”[/b] but with their current cost over a SATA Drive I’m not even sure that they would pay for the difference over their operational lives. Only real thing that I can see is that with Accelerated Deprecation they offer a larger Tax Write Off per year over a system with SATA Drives but then again they cost more to begin with.

      This doesn’t apply to these particular systems but from past experience IBM Hardware lasts longer so if there is a need for the hardware to stay in use longer than the normal hardware turnaround the few hundred $ extra may be worth it fore the IBM Stuff if the After Sales Support is similar in Real Life as apposed to what is claimed.

      Also I don’t deal with HP any longer as one of their Business Class tape drives failed and they replaced it quickly enough but what they replaced it with wasn’t compatible so all of the Tapes had to be replaced very quickly so that we had a Valid Working Backup in case anything nasty happened. We could have bought a new drive that used the old tapes if you call 6 month old tapes old, for less that it cost to replace the tapes. But maybe that colors my opinion of HP too.

      Not much use I know but that is my experience.

      Col

      • #2939811

        I have ZERO experience with HP servers

        by jdclyde ·

        In reply to JD as this isn’t a Novel Question I’m not answering it. :^0

        and would hate to base the purchase on what is cheaper.

        I have been getting exclusively IBM servers (rackmount) for the last 8 years, and only had ONE of 8 go bad. It was still under support, so they replaced the MB and bad drive.

        It looks like we will be getting this IBM.

        I miss them not having the x205. $500 out the door. Had a few of them for lower end applications.

        Thanks!

        jd

        • #2937755

          I’ve used both.

          by cmiller5400 ·

          In reply to I have ZERO experience with HP servers

          And had both fail at one time or another. They both are reliable, and run with very few issues. I can only think of one IBM server that had a SCSI backplane go bad and a powersupply that went south on a HP that only had one. I’ve replaced fans and redundant power supply’s in both. HDD’s have gone south in both servers before (no data loss though (knocking on wood quickly))

          All in all, you’d probably be happy with either one. Just go with your gut instinct, it is probably right.

        • #2937729

          It is looking like the IBM will win out

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to I’ve used both.

          just because that is the name my boss is more comfortable getting.

          If it makes them happy, it makes me happy.

          I am looking into getting the IBM backed down to SATA drives. $300 per drive instead of $700, and having two drives…..

        • #2937749

          In my business

          by jamesrl ·

          In reply to I have ZERO experience with HP servers

          We sell only IBM servers. We have thousands in the field.

          As in anything there are occasional issues. We had some major issues with Go Vault drives that seemed to hit IBM machines specifically, but eventually were worked out.

          But on the whole, we wouldn’t sell them if we didn’t think they were the most reliable, since we service what we sell, and its more profitable for us if we don’t have to go on site.

          James

        • #2937723

          We are leaning that way

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to In my business

          Just working out the final quote right now. After looking at the IBM site to customize the server, they wanted $69 each for 1gig chips, and $79 each for 2 gig chips. I am all over doubling the memory for $20.

          Side note, have you gotten my emails about the KY trip?

      • #2939556

        As for Novell

        by jdclyde ·

        In reply to JD as this isn’t a Novel Question I’m not answering it. :^0

        As far as I can tell, the ONLY thing the Novell is doing, is giving the Novell login. LOL!

        Got a bud of mine who is a Novell guy, and he is going to stop by and see if it is even doing anything anymore. I do know the email has been moved off of it.

        I am thinking it should have been turned off a few years ago, but the consultant didn’t want to BOTHER uninstalling the Novell Client on the 10 pcs.

        So, instead of learning Novell, I get to learn Terminal Services. B-)

        • #2937736

          Consultant

          by shasca ·

          In reply to As for Novell

          How did the transition go with you and the consultant? Was he cooperative and gave you all the PW’s and Network layout?

          Have you accessed the NW server to see what resources are stored on it? sys, vol1,vol2 etc.? Print Server? File Server? You may luck out and find it was only a GW server thus is no longer needed.

        • #2937721

          No contact as of yet

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to Consultant

          As that is a bridge we don’t want to burn, so not going to contact him until it is required.

          Also, depending on how this project works out, will depend on if they increase my value here or if they will move back to the consultant. Without this project, they really won’t need an on-staff tech.

          Got a buddy that is a Novell guy, and offered to buy him lunch if he would take a look at tell me what the “server” is doing. It is loaded on a PC, and it seems to only be feeding out the Novell login. If that is the case, it would get formatted and become my work pc.

        • #2937715

          Seems to be Novells future fate

          by shasca ·

          In reply to No contact as of yet

          “If that is the case, it would get formatted and become my work pc.”

        • #2937705

          That is the fate

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to Seems to be Novells future fate

          of any company that doesn’t know how to market their product.

          That is clearly the case of Novell. No one to blame but themselves.

    • #2937718

      Update on quote price

      by jdclyde ·

      In reply to What comparisons do you do, to decide which brand of server to buy?

      looking about $700 more for the IBM than the HP.

      Will find out this afternoon which quote is going to fly.

      Thanks for all the feedback!

      jd

      Wish I was able to give out techpoints! 😀

      New question about putting hard drives in older system.
      http://techrepublic.com.com/5208-7343-0.html?forumID=101&threadID=307246&messageID=3058871

      • #2937512

        Going with the HP

        by jdclyde ·

        In reply to Update on quote price

        With everything out the door, the cost of the IBM knocked it’s self out of the running.

        I am now the proud admin of a new HP server.

        Thanks everyone.

        • #2937413

          I was wondering

          by rob mekel ·

          In reply to Going with the HP

          with that kinda price difference … on 2 more or less the same machines … there isn’t any option then choosing the less expensive one

          unless you have shares of the company that is more expensive :^0

          [i]dang emoticon[/i]

        • #2937343

          A big part of the savings

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to I was wondering

          was HP having a deal with M$ to offer Windows 2008 Server quite a bit cheaper bundled in.

          If wasn’t for that extra amount, I think we would have ended up with the IBM.

          Combine that with IBM cutting the bottom line of their servers. At my last job I had two x205’s, and they ran $500 each.

          Insisting on adding the extra drive for mirroring jumped them up more as well than it did the HP.

          I was kind of looking forward to staying with IBM. 🙁

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