What to do??

The sooner you get out from under the thumb of that brown-nosing control freak, the better.

If you're sticking it out to 'get some experience', then suck it up, keep your goal in mind, and let that be your motivation.

Dollars to donuts you won't get a glowing recommendation from this guy when you leave, so you may want to make yourself known to some of the company brass - either inside or outside the office.

I've worked for several union shops. Most were in blue collar positions. One was an IT union shop. It seems to me that there is no way to win in a union shop. The union creates a structure which eliminates the possibility of management and labor acting as a team. Often the lower level managers resent the union and manifest that malevolence in whatever way they can. The worst thing about unions is that it so clearly defines the roles of labor that you cannot work outside of the scope of your job definition. This eliminates any interest in the labor force to grow by learning new skills. You become pigeon holed into a job definition and are restricted from doing any activity that is not covered in your job description. This leads to people being undertasked and unable to pursue new interests informally.

Unions are like prisons. The employer's management and the union's shop steward are the prison guards.

I understand the need for unions. The horrors of the Industrial Revolution as described by Charles Dickens and others of the time show to what levels of inhumanity unrestrained management and business owners will sink. In the U.S. stories from the early 20th century like the Pullman strike show that when people in positions of power, such as business ownership or business management, consider themselves to be a higher order being from the laborers then they are inclined to treat laborors like slaves. The plight of hard rock underground miners has only improved due to the efforts of unions to influence both business managers and the government. The standard 40 hour work week in the U.S. with the provision for enhanced pay when working more than 40 hours per week are attributable to unions. So unions have an important place in society. They can be a tool to force business and government to mandate humane treatment of laborers.

But there is a price to pay. Unions do not create an ideal work environment. They may enable people to force business management to adopt some basic humane policies but unions are also divisive. The mere existence of a union can play into the strategy of a malevolent management or can turn benevolent management into resentful and petty adversaries. Malevolent managers can use the union rules to make the work environment dull and degrading. Even benevolent management may feel emasculated by the existence of a union and may use the union restrictions to make the labor environment restrictive and excruciatingly boring.

I would seek alternate solutions unless work conditions were plainly and unnecessarily unsafe. A lot of these problems would be solved if IT jobs were NOT exempt from the Fair Labor Practices Standards Act of 1938. The 40 hour work week would become standard. Extra pay would be legally required when an employee was required to work more than 40 hours per week. This would reduce the expectation that IT workers would work normally more than 40 hours a week. I don't think we need unions nor do we want them. We just need the same rights and protection under the law as other non-management employees.

Unfortunately I have worked for at least one boss that was in some ways similar in terms of work hours. In that job we were expected to be there by 9:00 AM and to stay until at least 10:00 PM plus weekends. When the boss got after me for leaving one evening I quit and got a different job.

I currently work for a boss who expects us to have lives, encourages interaction, and wants for us to go home by 5:30 PM every night unless there is a compelling reason to stay later.

In short - its not the industry or the job, its the boss who is a jerk.

Best - Dennis

By all means *do* get some legal advice! BFilmFan is totally correct: all jobs should have a bit of consideration and respect, some give and take on both sides. I know that it is not easy to be in such a situation and in fact it is very scarey/nerve-racking to be there; so to make your life easier and help you know what is and is not *right*, gaining legal advice assures *you* (and your mind and heart)of how much you can say without braking the rules of conduct.
Take the tape recorder, just make sure to inform him that you will taping so as to not brake the "confidentiality* rules and have your recording thrown out. I am sure when you have the recorder in hand, he will either have a total conniption fit or shut up and look at you with new respect.
Good luck!

This isn't an I.T. problem--it's another manager who thinks he is
doing something "faster, better, cheaper" by working you to
death.

I.T. business is often more than 40 hours per week, but you
either take control of the situation by working smarter, cutting
back your hours (whether he likes it or not--after all, he will
take the credit/get the bonus by getting the job done on time,
not you) or by leaving the job.

If you get fired over it, tell the truth to your next potential
employer ("I don't mind going the extra mile to pitch in, but this
guy wanted an extra 7 miles--every day. And he fired me when I
was unable to live up to his impossible demands").

Working anywhere, I.T. or not, means you are selling your time
(hourly wage) or selling your services (salary): if you
commissioned a guy for new gutters for $1000, would you
expect him, after he started the job, to paint your windows, too,
for the same money? Nope. He'd walk off. Think about it.

Hope this helps you,

mk

I have been in the IT industry for 35 years and have seen many ups and downs. It is always wise not to burn any bridges. Do what?s necessary in your present job and find a new one.

I was a manager for 14 years before starting my own company. What you say and do at your could come back and bite you later. Managers do talk and resumes are checked. A flame out would be perceived as an extremely immature act.

This guy is obviously a poor manager looking out for no one but himself... Get you resume up to date, and start contacting recruiters in your area.

Working in IT does have it's demands, but no one should have to deal with a work environment like the one you've described. Good Luck...

In January I checked myself into the emergency room of a local hospital thinking I was having a heart attack. Two days later I was released after a bunch of testing with the conclusion being that I was reacting to stress but that physically there is nothing wrong with me. My job was one of two issues that had me on the edge.

It was easy to end the personal relationship that was the other issue. It was quite a bit more difficult sitting down with my boss to manage and relaign his expectations.

I work for a large company that has gone through a series of rolling layoffs in the past several years. Those around me who remain employed are shell shocked. We have all been trying to assume the work of three or four (now missing) former employees while holding down our own responsibilities.

Why work like this? It's globalization, my friend. We are told that there are people in India or China who will do our work for a small fraction of the price. So, to justify ourselves in this situation, we try to work likt three or four employees. We are re-aligning our economy so that we are completive with third-world work forces. We asked for it; we got it.

Wayne,
I think I worked for your boss's dad back in 1973 at an auto dealership...and several of their family since then.
Point is; IT hasn't cornered the market on bad managers who lack training, understanding and good people skills.
A professional relationship is just that - a relationship. And like any relationship, when it gets too bad to accept anymore, move on.
I wish you well.
- - -Jim

Check here for the rules.
Apply them, unless you live in a state (there are 18 of them according to some articles I have read)
where state rules trump these fed rules on labor.

www.dol.gov/fairpay

Option # 2.
Get a new boss.

wayne62682 - In my humble opinion, this is failry cut and dry. The ethics and integrity of this boss are seriously lacking, and you need to go to someone in Human Resources, or call an anonymous hotline within your company work perks/benefits. You absolutely need to be well documented, and speak ONLY in facts; lose the emotion. Alternatively, it sounds like you have broad skills, and could easily find "greener grass" if you needed to move on to another employer. A few years ago, one of our Senior Vice Presidents distributed an article from CIO magazine stating that "technicians leave managers, not companies."
From an IT Manager with a life, and staff that have lives!!!

Unfortunately your experience is not just limited to the IT world. The Peter Principal still seems to live on after all of these years. Too often you will find those in management positions that actually do not possess the professional maturity and/or requisite past job skills/experience to properly prioritize, plan and execute. I have seen it in IT, marketing, sales and even on the creative side. Realize you are dealing with someone that is probably extremely insecure and over their head in terms of understanding what it really takes to get the job done and what should be a real business priority.

You probably could construct an abusive/hostile work environment case against your company. However it will take some of your money and a lot of time and energy. If you have a good sense of politics at your company you can decide if your boss is in or out of favor with executive/higher management. If he is in favor I would just file a complaint of abusive work environment with you senior HR person to buy yourself some time so you can find another job and get out of that place. Slack off your hours a bit to spend the time looking for a new position. HR will probably talk to your boss and warn him to temper his behavior. Depending on how clever your boss is he will eventually find a way to make your life hell again or fire you but not for at least 30 ? 60 days. Document (use email as much as you can to capture his abusive requests) all of his unreasonable requests as a backup in case he tries to fire you.

Many, but not all companies support such hostile and abusive behavior from their management. They think it is how you extract the most productivity from their company resources. They are of course wrong. When looking for a new job make certain you interview the company as much or more than they interview you. Look for a boss who has solid business sense and experience in the industry he or she is working in from an IT perspective. Quiz the potential new boss on his or her views of what are business critical initiatives for the company and the time table they envision, desired and probable, for completing these initiatives. Also ask what they feel your typical work day/week/month would consist of in terms of tasks and time requirements. If you think you like the boss ask to meet co-workers and get a read on how well they like their work environment and what their view of a typical work day/week/month is like. Find out how many have families and how balanced they feel their work/personal lives are.

The reality is business tends to go through cycles of abusing and nurturing employees. In bad times, like the recent recession, companies will take a harder line with staff knowing it is less likely they will find another job to defect to. In better times after they hear the giant sucking sound created by the departure of large numbers of staff they start instituting employee retainment programs. Some organizations buck the trend and always look to treat their employees as the valuable resources and business partners they are. With some due diligence and a bit of luck I am confident you will find a better work situation where you can thrive.

Good Luck!

First and foremost, if management doesn't change their attitude you will have to leave this job eventually. Based on what you have said, this is really the only long term solution. In the mean time you might want to check with your state's Labor Board/Department. If I'm interpreting you correctly, it sound like you are being treated as if your position is salary exempt. In other words, no overtime pay. I know that in Illinois there are limits to who can be salary exempt and who cannot.

You may want to look into this as I recieved retroactive pay from one of my previous employers because an ex-employee went to the Labor Board and complained. This didn't solve the problem with the employer, but it did reduce my hours on average (because he had to pay overtime). In the end I had to leave for greener pastures.

Greener Pastures
I typically work between 43 and 45 hours a week at my current job. When I need to take time to take care of my family, I am given it. In fact I had some fairly serious family related issues over the past year, and my boss was very empathetic to my situation and allowed me to take time off at the drop of a hat whenever necessary.

This doesn't mean that the job is problem free. I have to deal with my fair share of unreasonable requests, managers, requirements, and deadlines, but that's just part of the job. Sometimes I get upset about these things, but in the end I believe that I am treated fairly, and payed a reasonable salary with decent benefits.

In other words, not all IT jobs are like yours.

Hi
I do sympathise. Ask yourself how much you need/want the job. If you can't get a similar job for similar money it may be best to stick to the frying pan.

A lot of IT managers don't have a clue. There are no formal courses. I should know, a lot of former friends are IT managers (I wouldn't have given them the job).

IMHO this gut is a total **sehole. Get some other like minded people to gether and stuff him officially with his boss (or do it in some underhand scheming way if you have to). It is your duty not to let gits like this get away with it. If you do, they will inflict their miserable existance on someone else.

The army management mentality is still around even though it is crap. Look at the employees at Google for the other extreme.

In terms of management anyway - look at the NHS - one manager per qualified health professional and they still can't hack it.

Good luck and all the best. Hope it works out.

Ged

I appreciate the reasonable approach that you have taken in your response. It makes having a discussion much easier. I like a lot of what you have to say. The one statement with which I disagree is the following:

"...I could not disagree more with those who think that the solution lies in more government and regulatory controls. Sarbanes-Oxley is a good example of the bad consequences of good intentions, and our culture is rife with such. Government isn't the answer."

This is the reason that I disagree.

One reason that I compared this situation to the civil rights movement in the U.S. in the 1960s is that it can serve as a model of what to expect in the way of progress. The first steps were taken to create a legal structure of enforcing civil rights. People who were adults at that time were being told that everything that they believed was wrong. They were not inclined to believe the new ideas being championed at that time and they never fully accepted these new ideas.

However during the 1970s there was a lot of educational material to promote the ideals of the civil rights movement. Children were exposed to ideas of equality in school, on television, and other sources. In some cases as the children became teenagers they considered the merit of these ideas even if their parents didn't agree. Over time and several generations the ideas of equality for all people have become predominant and the racists are dwindling in number. Racism will always exist but as the older people who were the primary supporters of Jim Crowe in the south die off the racists become the outsiders.

This is how legal structure can pave the way for a cultural revolution. Education is also a big part of the solution. It may be that education can handle the job alone but leaving the job entirely to education is like expecting the people in the south to reform themselves. Certainly there were always good people in the south who did not believe in racism but they were not having much impact until the civil rights movement of the 1960s began. The Civil Rights Act gave the good people a mechanism to begin restructuring society until the educational component could reshape the prevailing attitudes in society. It also provided a guiding light toward the new societal values which needed to be adopted.

So the law was instrumental in overcoming the deeply entrenched mores of society which had implemented and supported the Jim Crowe environment. The law provided a legal basis to fight Jim Crowe. The law provided a guide toward the reformed society. Education actually implemented the reform by shaping the values of children. The Jim Crowe injustices continued until those children grew up and replaced the bad people who were in power.

Social reform is a long and uncertain process. It is not going to totally eliminate the problems that it addresses. It can only hope to make the problems go from mainstream values to fringe ideas.

This is exactly the kind of reform that we need in society to improve conditions in the workplace. Currently most people of all economic classes would say that an employer has the right to be a sociopath. If you don't like it you can leave. That would be like telling black people in Alabama in 1950 that if they didn't like their society then they could leave. That isn't addressing the basic problem of unacceptable treatment of people. Telling people that they can leave if they don't like their work situation is legitimatizing the bad work environment. By saying that we don't need to address the sociopaths in business management we ARE saying that they are within their rights. When a person's employemnt is unfairly terminated and the former employer is assumed by the unemployment department to be within their rights the unemployment department is saying that their actions toward the former employee are acceptable. We need to change that attitude. We need to establish humane rules of conduct for employers. We need to be able to say that if a sociopath has caused harm to an employee then that employee does is not required to stay in that environment. If a sociopathic manager unfairly terminates the employment of a good worker then that worker should have available a reasonable procedure to seek redress. The place for that to happen is in the unemployment office.

We need to reform the procedures and qualifications for seeking unemployment insurance benefits. We need to hold the former employer more accountable to humane and otherwise fair behavior both in establishing the work environment and in terminating employees. This can form the legal structure for the social reform that I am advocating. The unemployment office of each state is currently in the position to perform this function. All that is required is to legislate the changes.

Then we need to get away from pathological models of work as portrayed by The Jetsons cartoon and other television shows. Just as in the 1970s All in the Family portrayed racism as ignorant we need to have new models of the work environment portrayed on television and in magazines and in newspapers. We need to point out unjust situations and identify them as being unacceptable. We need to identify situations where a CEO is paid millions of dollars in bonuses while the janitor is only paid minimum wage. When we can make these CEOs social outcasts then there will be an incentive for them to act more equitably toward all of their employees. When we can override the decisions of line managers to humiliate and degrade employees until they either quit or are fired for unjust causes then we will give teeth to this social reform. When corporations face social and financial penalties that are too big to absorb then we will provide the impetus to force corporations to reform their behavior. This is the role that education can provide.

So legal structure and education can, over the period of thirty or forty years, provide the groundwork to implement social change. But this social change will only become effective when the average person believes that employers must behave humanely and do not have the right to act in any way that they please.

First of all, you refer to your boss as a manager.
He doesn't have a clue regarding leadership and management. Autocratic bosses are not leaders and leadership is required to manage.
It is obvious that your boss has never heard of Peter Drucker.
In my humble opinion, "Management By objectives" is the best form of management. Unfortunately, it starts at ther top and requires input all the way down to the person or persons who is/are directly responsible for achievining the objective or objectives. The final objective is broken down into sub objectives which must be achieved in order to complete the project. Goals and time frames are set
and individual workers participate in the swetting of realistic goals.

http://www.1000ventures.com/business_guide/mgmt_mbo_main.html
http://www.12manage.com/methods_smart_management_by_objectives.html

Go to theregister.com and read the Bastard Operator from Hell. Simon does a good job of
dealing with his bosses.
Nothing like a little water and an open circuit to settle down a control freak boss.

I recently left a job because of the same things that you mentioned in your post. Depending on your situation, you can either grin and bear it until something else comes along, which is what I did, or walkout.

We tried filing a grievance against my previous supervisor, to no avail. Most of the staff was also on anti anxiety meds. Once I started my new job, I was able to get off them.

IT is not like what you mentioned. Certainly there are times when ot is required, but you are allowed to have a life. Just stick with it and get your resume out.

I think the person you are speaking of has a BAD mental problem.
I'd look for other employment ASAP for your own sanity. Then when you get ready to leave tell him off.
Disregard his mandate that you not talk to anyone else. Go to the top. If management won't fix it then you're better off somewhere else. Life is too short to put up with that stuff.
Good luck!

At first glance it seems to me that your manager is completely 'round the bend on having unrealistic expectations. I fervently hope you are documenting every conversation and meeting as this seems to be a large violation of the Fair Labor Relations Act (I go out on a limb and surmise you are in the US). It further seems that this manager feels you to be "property" and no longer employees. No matter what you say to him, it will never be "his" fault.

Your co-worker, if he truly has been hanging out with the owners daughter, can use that relationship as a pipeline to the owner as a means of voicing your grievances. Again, document everything, both of you. I would also find a labor relations attorney to represent both of you.

Again, this is a first look without looking at the other's comments, so I hope we are all on the same page.

As a manager, one who appreciates his employees and does what he can to help the, there are reasons that managers make these decisions. More experienced IT professionals usually have less complaints and whine less about the things you are bringing up. This isn't just IT idealisim, this is a real job. Although IT world does have a greater demand, especially if your are salary.

I hate to say it, but, grow up and welcome to the real world. Sorry.

Jeez, what a whack-job!

Other posters are right - this cat's a control freak. My wife recently had a similar experience.

Your boss is screwing you good! While he works you to death, he's taking credit for your successes, and probably blaming you for any and all failures when upper management raises any 'uncomfortable' questions. His efforts at segregating you from the rest of the company is likely designed to prevent you from finding out what's really going on and to prevent you from passing out tales of his misdeads.

If your company has a Human Resources Department, I would suggest contacting them and requesting a copy of your formal job description a well as an explanation of their policies on work hours, overtime, grievances, etc. If a safe channel exists for reporting your work conditions, I would give some thought to doing so, perhaps enlisting the assistance of your other put-upon co-workers. Butthead's house of cards will likely come crashing down around him.

Your boss does not have the right to dictate to you re: what you do on your time, nor who you do it with.

Not all IT jobs are like this, and not all IT managers are this psychotic. We had a manager here for awhile who had a similar ability to create chaos, bad feelings, and tears. Twice I documented her harassment, and I included names, dates, times, and direct quotes. I was told I had a personality conflict so I realized I wasn't going to get any help.

I was making up my mind to quit when this person was "laid off" during a downsizing. Her entire division breathed an enormous sigh of relief!

It sounds like the only realistic remedy for you is to leave. You won't get any more help from HR/management than I did, but you can get out. Don't abandon IT if you enjoy the work. Just find another place to do it. Life's too short to spend this many hours being miserable.

One avenue that you might explore is to make yout boss's supervisors aware of the kind of treatment that employees are experiencing from him/her. By making the higher management aware of this type of behavior the accountability and liability of your boss's behavior toward employees is extended into upper management who may not be aware of such practices.

Document everything including dates, times, and settings, (if possible record staff meetings, if this is one of the settings), and the date, type, and content of communication with your boss's supervisors. Make sure that the documentation is sent to a specific member of upper management by registered mail, return receipt requested, so you have documentation of the communication. To be effective, the communication should be signed by the majority of this boss's employees.

If these practices continue for an extended period of time after upper management has been informed, then it should be apparent that the behavior is condoned by upper management and you may have legal grounds for action. The legal liability for such actions may include not only the boss in question, but also his/her superiors, and possibly the company as a whole.

Also, even if a lawyer sees no legal grounds for action, you know how the company stands on the issue; that is not just one supervisor, but the whole company. In which case I would change companies as soon as possible.

Your response is very, very accurate - and professional. In particular, you have outlined your advice on three variants of the basic scenario presented and allowed for a bit of a decision tree algorithm to follow. You also seem to have more than a little management potential - not to mention leadership ability.

At the risk of paraphrasing ... here are your general ideas as i understand them:

1. Scenario A: good company / good manager / poor supervisor. Tender your resignation but be hopeful (i.e. try and get your immediate supervisor fired, or at least disciplined). Be prepared to leave, but don't burn any bridges.

2. Scenario B: good company / poor manager / poor supervisor. Get the heck out of there, you're outnumbered and outgunned. Save your breath, they won't listen. There may be regrets, but ultimately you must vote with your feet. Look for an equally good company, which you know how to do. Remember that you got into one good company, so you can get into another. As a lesson learned, if possible, try to refine your "manager / supervisor search" skill set.

3. Scenario C: bad company - period. As per scenario B but consider why you allowed yourself to be trapped into a poor company to begin with.

The point I would like to add is documentation. Typically this only helps in scenario A, but it is also "required" in scenario A as well. If I was the CIO, I would be asking fror facts as well as opinion. Where are the meeting notes for the dates in question/ Where are the e-mails between employee and supervisor setting meetings to resolve the issue? What follow up was conducted (... etc / etc ...).

In short ... document, document, document.
Yes, I do this myself, and it has an impact.

I keep two written journals - one covers the "typical" 8x5 and focuses on the when, what and where of managing the company. I consider this the property of the company as it contains technical details of my job and the matter-of-fact decision regarding the companies everyday business. I would surrender it to my replacement / relief without question.

However I also have a second written journal. This journal is always with me and I consider it my personal property. This journal is much smaller and, in gerenal, details the who and why of the weird decisions, off-track discussions and harassment-like behaviour. It is literally there as a personal defence mechanism. If things get hot and a he said / she said arguement erupts ... i pull out journal #2.

Hope this helps. Best of luck.

You are in the IT field, so I assume that you are analytical of mind, and a solution provider by trade. With those two assumptions as guides, consider the following, and try to reduce the problem to a resolvable issue. It is business, so remove the personal side of the argument if at all possible.

1) In IT, there is often mentioned a "pyramid" structure for Project Management. The 3 sides are made up of Time, Resources, and Budget. At least one of these items will be frozen, and hard to adjust.

2) Your boss has likely been tasked to "Do More With Less" as the business battle cry. This of course gets delegated downhill. The workload increases while the staff level decreases due to attrition, vacation and/or downsizing.

3) IT Managers are often promoted from the IT ranks for doing a good job in a technical capacity. This doesn't make them good Managers or communicators, as they may have focused less effort on these skills than on remaining relevant.

Now, how can you carve a solution out of this scenario? I would develop ideas around all 3 sides of the pyramid above, and prepare arguments to allow one or more of these factors to "slide". You need to develp a solution that promotes a win-win for you and for the business. So if you want more free time, show how this will increase productivity. If you don't want to carry a pager and respond 24/7/365, suggest ways to make this work, like a rotating on-call schedule. Your solution should prepare you to SELL (not argue about) your solution.

The bottom line is this is just one more area where needs analysis, process and procedure development, and problem solving can save the day, and/or the career. I have used this approach many times in the past.

Just my 2?.

Not all bosses are so backward thinking, so look for another job and say goodbye to this retard. The future doesn't look bright for that company anyway if that is their mindset. Any enlightened human being understands that people need balance in their life to perform at their highest level.
When I have worked with companies that require so much time from their employees, they get into a never-ending cycle of making stupid mistakes, which require endless time and headache to fix, effectively doubling or tripling their load. They're so overworked they can't see their way out of it, and things just slowly spiral out of control. That's no way to run a company -- it does no one any good, and sure does a lot of harm.

Mitch says some very good things. One reason there are bad managers is "social" promotions; been there a long time, a good worker (ewhatever the field), etc. A good programmer (put any position in here) does not a good manager make. In the Navy, I used to tell my E6's and new E7's that it was time to put down the screwdriver and learn how to use that pen, that up to now they had maintained electronics gear and now they had to maintain people and thatmeant they had to study different tech manuals. Too often training for management staff is not provided and they are left to learn by trial and error.
Your position is not sustainable from the sounds of your letter. If you decide to lawyer up, do so quietly. Read General Sun's Art of War (strategy). Learn the rules of the game before you start playing hardball. Figure out what guns you have available and load all chambers before you draw it. Develop a plan of attack, a plan of sustainability, and a plan for exit. Sounds like a lot but the alternative is like going to a gunfight with a BB gun.
And don't forget to look in the mirror. Good luck!

First off, start to document everything in case _they_ try to sue _you_.

Now, there is the time tested and proper action you can take here.. Your team should all just find a new job and quit.

I'm not condoning what your boss is doing by any stretch, but suing will probably cause you as much heartburn as it does him.

The risk is that he may find out you're looking and you fear he'll go nuts and make life even more miserable.. Really, the worst that can happen is he fires you, especially if you document everything and you are truly in the "right" here, so they can't turn around and make some sort of a performance based complaint against you.

Chances are he won't do anything worse if he learns you are looking, the reason being is I think he may put a little thought into what your team means to his part of the organization. You never know, the dink might actually start to realize what he has and treat you more appropriately.

Regardless, if you can handle the worst (you get fired and won't starve), then really the best solution is to just find another job ASAP.

The original post didn't mention anything that the original poster can sue over. It's not illegal for a manager to tell employees they cannot talk to other (or certain other) employees while on the clock. Nor to is it illegal to give assignements with unreasonable deadlines or to ask the employees to work overtime (you have the choice to either work the time requested, refuse... and accept the consequences that go with that refusal, or quit the job).

Not to say that there's nothing he can do. He can get callerID and just not answer when the manager calls him at home, or he can demand 'on call' pay if he is expected to be available on short notice. Or he can go to this manager's boss and explain the situation, but it's not normally something you can sue over unless something in an employment contract has beeen breeched.

As far as the harrassment, it seemed from the original message that it was directed to the poster's co-worker, not the poster, so the co-worker might have a cause of action, but not the poster.

Document, Document, Document......

Then go out and have a beer. Stay when its necessary and leave ON TIME when possible.

Talk to HR and to his boss. Talk to other department. Find out if this is company policy.

Polish up your resume but be prepared for that fallout too .....

Good luck.

One boss I worked with actually threatend to have me arrested and prosectued... I think they put him in a padded cell finally.

Essentially, you have some standards, they don't. You aren't alone, but there are alternatives, most of which are covered in other posts.

You have to make the decision: Do I continue to work here, or do I shop around? Having fewer job opportunities in the area does two things:
1. Generally you hear about opportunities in the area, and
2. The labor pool is likewise smaller and they can't afford to lose the folks they have.

You can push the issues you have with that company, but all it will get you is the door and a referral of "he worked here". Best to do your homework and line up a position while you are currently employed...and when you submit your resignation, don't accept a counter-offer from your current employer. They generally resent being forced to make one, and they'll be shopping for your replacement.

Good luck, and take your co-worker along if you can, if you can't, give her a heads-up as early as possible.

Document, Document, Document......

Then go out and have a beer. Stay when its necessary and leave ON TIME when possible.

Talk to HR and to his boss. Talk to other department. Find out if this is company policy.

Polish up your resume but be prepared for that fallout too .....

Good luck.

One boss I worked with actually threatend to have me arrested and prosectued... I think they put him in a padded cell finally.

It requires a lot of knowledge, maturity, self-discipline and luck to work in the IT field.
Nevertheless, we do not put the hours that the retail industry requires, neither we get paid as a Surgeon that is on call 24X7
If IT is a field you are getting into because of money or prestigue alone, you have made a mistake.
You must like the field and be willing to sacrifice plenty for it. This is very hard when you have small children or your domestic situation is unsettled.
Best advice is get along with your boss, make him part of the day to day work so he can make the "Business decisions". If it is too much for you, get another job or best get another occupation.
Leave the field to the true devoted IT pros.

I think this is outstanding advice for an exit strategy. Given the nature of the IT Manager, you both cannot continue to work for this company. The IT manager will not change his expectations of your time commitment, which are truly unreasonable. If you can't afford to be out of work for a while, begin that search for a new job NOW! When you have accepted a job offer, follow Mitch's advice for exiting the company. No matter the situation, remain professional when you exit the company...it can only benefit you in the future.

On the brighter side, there are good IT jobs out there. I'm a business systems analyst and AS/400 system administrator, I have a great boss who is every bit as knowledgeable as I am and understands the concept of quality work. I work 8:30 - 5:00 almost every day. The times I have to come in during off hours are usually compensated with time off somewhere else. The IT department is well run and my coworkers are great to work with. The pay is a little under average, but not much; however, the excellent work environment makes up for it in my opinion. I never have to worry about getting time off to attend to personal issues...when I need it, it's there.

I'm saying this so you know that there really are good jobs out there. Like Mitch said, be attentive in the interview process. Ask questions about the company...you should be interviewing them to determine if they are the right company for you. Try to meet people in your prospective department if possible...you can gain valuable insight into the culture and work environment that way.

Hope this helps,

Mark

First, your manager sounds like a complete asshole, and you should look for a job in a different company. Development schedules should be realistic, and the manager should defend realistic schedules to his boss, etc.

If you are expected to work more than 40 hours a week as a general rule, you should get more than 40 hours pay.

You can have a solid IT career and still lead a normal life. But, like any other field, if you want to be the best you have to have a real passion for your work, and make it your life.

I am a small business owner, specializing in web site design and development. I certainly hope that I never become the type of person that your manager is, and I also hope that if I do, then one or more of my employees quickly put me in my place.

I have clients that demand unreasonable deadlines on items that they know nothing about. For instance, web site search engine creation is usually given no more than 10 hours to build and perfect for the site. This is ridicuous, and it is often difficult to communicate the obstacles that programming often causes.

My advice to you is to find out if your boss's boss has ever served in the Military. Find out the same for your head HR guru. The reason that this is important is because most people who have served in the Military have been in some kind of leadership position, and most have learned how to become a great leader. A good leader will listen to your problems - a great leader wil work with you to solve them. If you do not currently have this luxury, then I highly recommend asking your future employers about their Military experience during any future job interviews. If your new boss says that he/she is/was a Non-Commissioned Officer (NCO), a Commissioned Officer (Officer), or a Warrant Officer, then you just found a great leader!

if you ever decide to quit your job and relocate, I am always ooking for good empoyees in the IT field. Send dme an email with your resume to jstuttler at camboro-computers dot com and we can go from there. By the way, I am an NCO, and I do not put up with the BS that your current manager gives out!

Wayne,
The most useful resource at your disposal is HR, and is sometimes overlooked. You should ask for company policy on over time or socalizing on off duty time.

My job is salary based and when I don't want to be disturbed, my answering machine gets the call and not me, then I don't have to make excuses why I didn't respond.

For an experienced IT person, there are other jobs in the market. If you are not satified where you are, trice dice.com or monster.com. the best time to get a job is when you have one!

Best of luck,

Basil

My first piece of advice is f*** your boss. He apparently suffers from Narcissistic Personality Disorder (type that in Google and start learning) and the only way to effectively deal with these people is to walk away. So I would suggest you keep your resume nice and shiny and look elsewhere for employment.
Yes, it is true that IT is pretty demanding of one's time, depending on what you are doing. Most IT folk should expect to work a fair amount of overtime (is your boss aware of the new Fed regulations about OT?) but the demands you are faced with are ridiculous.
My other suggestion is that IT needs to unionize so that those of us in the industry have some power and representation. As for your situation, I'd suggest you and your two co-workers who are under your boss "unionize" by all polishing up your resumes and all finding new jobs and all leaving on the same day with no prior warning - that may wake the narcissist up, at least for a few minutes.
Good luck!

I have worked for freaks like this before, and most of them are supervisors in manufacturing areas. Most manufacturing supervisors are pure control freaks. There was one that sticks out clearly in my mind. The stories I could tell you are endless. We worked in a cubicle area and even if we were talking to a co-worked about a job realted issue, he would see you talking across the building and stand there staring at you with his neck stretched high so you would NOTICE that he was watching you. Because we mostly saw his head stretched over the cubicle walls I wrote a poem about him and shared it with my co-workers. I called it "Manufacturing" because these freaks seem to bread in those settings. PRAISE BE TO GOD IN HEAVEN ABOVE THAT I AM NO LONGER IN THAT HELL HOLE!

Here it is for your enjoyment:

MANUFACTURING

It is said we dread the Head
whose nightmares chase us in our beds.

We then wake to morning?s light,
return to work to see the sight.

The sight we see is as before,
that ugly head coming through the door!

HERE IT COMES!!!

Wow! That was close!
That ugly head is really gross.

One day these chains of bondage we shall break,
and that dreaded Head we will forsake.

No more to see it in the halls,
nor peering over cubicle walls.

No more to fear the right to speak,
looking over our shoulders,
whispering cheek to cheek.

No more to march to that cattle call, ?time for break?, ?hey you are late!?

Yes, one day we will leave this Hell,
and dream sweeter dreams that time will tell.

But as for now, it?s ?BACK TO WORK!?
I dread that Head, what a jerk!

-by Glenn Erdelt

Tell them you have Anal Glaucoma. You can?t see your a$$ working here anymore.

My last job was like that. They came to us with a new project that they wanted implemented in a short time. They threw everybody on it, cancelled vacations, and said we had to do whatever it took. It was just an internal project, not client facing. No reason for the short deadline. Just management insisted. I refused. I said I?ll do my 45 hours, no more. My director threatened me with a meeting with HR. I said, ?You do what you have to do.? The HR director said you must or we will fire you. I quit.

Two weeks later my director got laid off the day before surgery. My General Manger quit two weeks after that. My manager quit two months after I did with 4 kids and a stay-at-home wife & he didn?t have another job. The VP quit 4 months after me. My entire chain of command was gone in 5 months.

I filed for unemployment. Admitted I quit. They took 6 months to deny my claim. They said in IT, it doesn?t matter how nasty they are or how many hours you have to work, if you quit, you get nothing.

One of my friends got me into her company. I?m hourly. I get paid for what I work. I took 5 weeks off last year. The $$$ is a little less, the hours and the stress are a lot less. My husband says I?m more pleasant to be around at this job.

If a VMS system has a good administrator then the operator account should only have bypass privilege. The "super user" account is system. I've run VMS systems since 1987.

VAX is a hardware architecture that could run VMS or Unix. In no case is the operator account equivalent to the super user whether it be root or system.

I was making a link between the social reform of the 1960s and the social reform that I am advocating for employment reform. I never said that race was an issue in IT.

And I'm not advocating communism either. I think that you are reading a statement in my post and then extrapolating an interpretation that isn't supported by my statement. If you follow financial news you will after a while realize that CEOs do not add value to a business. Professional CEOs are generally a liability to a business. Look at examples like "Chainsaw" Al Dunlap and Bob Palmer. Chainsaw Al destroyed several corporations in the guise of reorganizing them. The last business that I know that he destroyed was Sunbeam. Bob Palmer destroyed Digital Equipment Corporation using a method that maximised his bonuses while destroying jobs and ultimately destroying the company. Digital Equipment Corp. employed about 125,000 people directly and employed an equal if not greater number of temps. When Bob Palmer was done selling off DEC's various businesses and assets it there was little more than a service business left which he sold to Compaq.

On the other hand the janitors provide a critical service to the business. I'm not aware of any business being destroyed, willfully or otherwise, by its janitorial staff. Businesses would have a difficult time operating unless someone performed the janitorial function, though. In general I would say that janitors provide a greater benefit to corporations than CEOs.

This isn't advocating communism. I think that you don't really understand communism. What I am advocating is treating people humanely. I am also speculating about how that can be accomplished. I am saying that management should not be able to treat employees any way that they feel like doing. I am saying that there are inequities in our job system that could be addressed by a change in attitude. That isn't communism. There might be some merit in saying that there is a touch of socialist philosophy behind it. Or you could say that it is closely tied to some ideas in Christian philosophy, but in a limited sense.

All that I'm really saying is that we should find a way to limit the unrestrained scope of behavior among management. We should find a way to protect employees from sociopaths.

Seriously, if that is the company policy, he should have no qualms about writing it down and signing it. Once you ask him to do that, common sense may suddenyl com into play.

Your boss has a screw or two loose, worse, he realizes it and wants to keep you guys from interacting w/ the rest of the company. Start writing it down, and keep copies off site. When you really decide to seek employment elsewhere (you're only real way out of this as long as the guy is in charge of you), go see this clown's boss and show him the paper trail along w/ a detailed explanantion of why you are leaving.

The quickest way to insure that all of our jobs are outsourced is to start talking about unionizing. Unions are dead. Get used to it. All this nonsense about how great Europe is only tells half of the story. The Netherlands this, the Netherlands that! Once you start digging below the surface and take a look at the health of their economies you will see that socialism IS NOT SELF SUSTAINING!
I for one do not want the government taking care of my needs. Self reliance is a beautiful thing.

By choosing a career in IT, you have chosen a "professional" position in business, which will encompass overtime where necessary.

On the other hand, much of the current motivational management approach clearly illustrates that respecting balance between work and personal life is a crucial factor in ensuring high levels of motivation in workers. Your boss is way behind the times in his/her management style. (There's a lot of great information on the web about management and leadership - do some searching, and you'll learn how off-base your boss is, and what to look for in a new boss!)

What your boss has achieved is typical of a bad manager - through suck-up posturing to senior management, he/she looks good to them, but he/she is allowed to terrorize his/her staff. It's a pity that his/her bosses aren't wiser, and insist on building some level of perspective into how their managers manage - or perhaps they condone the approach? Be really cautious about things like off-hours time with the owner's daughter - that has the potential to get people into unwanted trouble.

By the way, where is HR in all of this mess? Has the entire group gone to the head of HR en masse to discuss the problem? If this has occurred more than once and HR is not taking action, there is a much broader systemic problem going on. Bear in mind, that the best way to approach HR (or senior management if that is the only option) is show up with clear documentation of what was said/done when, and by whom. While your desire may be to get rid of your lousy boss, he/she is may well valued by management, and you may be more successful in asking that management training and coaching be done to train your boss in how to motivate effectively in a positive manner (though a feel a "yeah, right" sensation creeping in here, particularly if this type of management is in evidence further up the line).

The real bottom line is that you cannot change other people's behavior. If the company does not place value in positive leadership, management and motivation, then you will not have any success in changing anything. And your boss doesn't seem like he/she has any need to change of his/her own volition.

Your choice, then, is to change your own behavior. Either go with the flow, get what you can from the situation (needed experience, or the like), or move on to another job, preferably with another company that has a healthier attitude towards their staff.

Best of luck!

It is the difference between market-driven capitalism and the utopian socialistic view of economics. mitchlr is showing you what power the individual has.

Actually, I considered mitchlr's post to be somewhat Distributive. That is, however, way off the topic at hand.

Unfortunately, there are a LOT of people in IT that think IT is the only life people need. But that's out-and-out garbage (I actually wanted to use the c**p word, but hey, this is a public forum). The sad part happens when one of these people is in management...

My advice: Get out of there! There are a lot of better places to work, and freelance web or IT development can be much more rewarding (even if you put in similar hours once in a while).

And consider this: There is a MAJOR demographic shift that's going to be happening in the next 5-10 years, and IT is one of the places that's going to be affected. What it will probably translate into is a better job market (i.e. - companies willing to pay for the services they get), as there will be a reduced population to do the work (while many others retire).

Shop around. IT's Your Life!

Before going for the legal action, I would follow the chain of command just to be sure that you cover yourself. The company can be held liable if they are aware of the situation and do nothing about it.

And, as has been previously mention, from this point forward document every conversation between yourself and the manager and even the higher ups. This way if it does come to the point of legal action, you will have the documentation to support you.

You may socialize with anyone you want after hours and on YOUR lunch breaks.

He has the right to keep you from doing it during work hours only.

Next time he says anything about it, ask him to show you in the Employees handbook that you can't socialise with other people in the company and what the discipline for such infractions are.

Stand up to him as it is obvious he isn't used to people going against his wishs.

Get your resume out as this guy will make this a dead end job for you.

Till then, grow a backbone and don't let him push you around in areas he has no right to. He can't fire you for having lunch with anyone. Just make plans BEFORE work so you didn't do it during his time.

He sounds more like a bully and a suckup than anything else. Runs you ragged and then takes ALL the credit, which is the reason for the segrigation.

In the real world, the project manager asks the developer "How long will such and such take". I give my best guess, given the requirements. It's ridiculous to drive development by some arbitrary schedule. If they needed it in two weeks, they should have asked you how long it would take, then had you start on it early enough to get it done.

You can't even guess correctly if you don't have a project plan, with an outline of the tasks involved. Do it in a spreadsheet, and assign hours to each task. Record the actual time you spend on each task, and don't forget to keep track of tasks you didn't think of.

Finally, you can't set a schedule, or even provide a wild guess at the time, unless you have a relatively complete set of *written* requirements.

Advice: If they give you an impossible schedule, tell them it can't be done, give them your estimate of the time it will take (accompanied by the task list I spoke of), and refuse to accept responsibility for their project schedule. Only accept responsibility for your own schedule. Always work as diligently as you can, keep them apprised on a daily basis of the your work on schedule (don't surprise them at the end with "I'm not finished").

Oh, by the way, look for a new job.

In this line of work, there is always a "crunch time"; The better you get, the shorter that crunch time is, with respect to the overall project.

Read up on Agile methodologies, also known as eXtreme Programing. Kent Beck has written on the subject extensively, and this approach really does work.

Regards,
Mike

A lawyer has never added value to a situation in the history of mankind!!

But why are you still there?!?!?! There is no good reason. You will make new friends, have a narrower scope of work, and regain your life if you find another job.

It's your life. Make the choice and get on with living!

That type of treatment is NOT what you should expect in the IT field.

If I were you, I'd be looking for another place to work. Your boss obviously doesn't realize, or doesn't care, that for any project to be successful, planning, including reasonable time and effort analysis MUST be done. If the analysis determines the project will take 6 weeks, then that's what it will take, and that's what you tell the "customer."

Rather than reiterate what you told us, everything else I see points to a totally unreasonable (and probably very insecure person).
There are many adjectives that could be used to describe your boss, but to keep it simple, this guy is what we call an "Adam Henry" (radio phonetics) in law enforcement... you can figure that out eh?

Tell your coworker to file a complaint on the harassment (I pronounce it the "old," widespread, way - emphasis on the 2nd syllable makes it sound as ugly as it is), then both of you get out of there ASAP!

If you stay, you're either crazy or a masochist.

You get to have a life.

You get to socialize with whomever you see fit outside of working hours.

You get to work in an environment that is free of overt harassment (overt=provable).

Based on what you have said here though, you have one good solution...bail.

Having said that, expect some situations where you are working outside normal business hours, and do not get too attached to 9 to 5 as business hours.