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  • #2265469

    When a network administrator puts in his 2-week notice…

    Locked

    by angry_white_male ·

    … what do you do?

    Immediately remove him from service, disable all his access and pay him til his last day?

    Trust he won’t do anything bad and keep things status quo til his last day?

    Quietly monitor everything he does and pull some of his privileges out?

    Assume he’s already filled his iPod up with everything already he can use against us later on down the road?

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    • #2584772

      couldn’t hurt

      by dr dij ·

      In reply to When a network administrator puts in his 2-week notice…

      to:
      be sure you know all the passwords to devices such as routers and root passwords to systems if you don’t have other admins for same systems.

      be sure you have working backup tapes

      be sure you have documentation of his day to day procedures both for normal ops and to fix things that break regularly due to load, etc.
      (e.g. we had a router that crashed when too many users and only one net admin knew the ‘fix’)

      Is there someone else who can work with this guy in last two weeks?

      In an ideal setup you’d have a log device for system activities somewhere else that only the admin of that device could alter (e.g. another server that admin didn’t have pwd to) and you could go back to this if anything ‘blew up’ suddenly.

      I left a company with a paranoid tyrant boss, and got a call a couple weeks later. It was to ask where a file was, which was fairly obvious. I told the guy where the file was and didn’t think much of it, tho I wondered why he called.

      I found out months later from someone else who worked there that the system had crashed after I left and they were fishing to see if it sounded like I had anything to do with it. It was a hardware crash which I as a developer couldn’t mystimagically create but the guy was paranoid.

      I suppose the answers to your questions could depend on his record and how he’s perceived.

      Was he an egotistical dependancy builder who made people dependant on him to fix things because only he knew how and wouldn’t show anyone else, or just a normal person?

      I’d consult HR; Did this guy not get any promised raises or bonuses like the guy at the brokerage firm who planted the logic bomb? Has he made any statements about dislike of the company in last couple years? Any major arguments with other depts or people he dislikes?

      • #2586335

        Why does everyone assume the worst? It’s career suicide!

        by dmckay2003 ·

        In reply to couldn’t hurt

        I have been in this situation where I was layed off and immediately my email was locked! I wasn’t able to send my farewell email even though I had no hard feelings. I was asked for all the passwords for all of the network appliances and gave my boss the admin password to everything. Even if you do have a grudge against a former employer, it seems to me that it would do you more harm than anything to plant a bomb or cause any loss of productivity. You have to remember that even though it’s illegal to say something derogative or make a prospective employer feel like this person would be a bad choice it happens all the time in this industry. Why bother to do all the schooling and all the blood sweat and tears that we as systems and network engineers have to endure to get where we are if were going to destroy our career because of a job that didn’t work out? Maybe it’s just my age and the 20+ years of doing this that has shown me that making stupid moves like sabotage can end up only in a bad way and can never really pay off. Besides, didn’t the question state that he gave notice? I would have to beleive that he is just moving on as we all do when we feel stagnant or need a change.

        Just my thoughts>>>>>>>>

        • #2586211

          agreed – think of yourself in that position

          by jcdshs ·

          In reply to Why does everyone assume the worst? It’s career suicide!

          I totally agree.
          I’ve been the network admin at my current place of employ for 11 years. I have always done a good job, i am trusted by all the staff here,…You get the picture.
          If I decide that financially I can no longer resist the offer of a bigger pay packet (I’m 47, not getting any younger) or a new job with different challenges why would I suddenly overnight turn into the world’s biggest security risk? I have always been totally professional in my approach with this company so why should that change all of a sudden?

        • #2586612

          Richard’s Law, #37

          by locrian_lyric ·

          In reply to agreed – think of yourself in that position

          …a person expects others to do what he would do in the same situation.

        • #2586586

          Got it in one

          by tony hopkinson ·

          In reply to Richard’s Law, #37

          If they bin you they expect you to get dischuffed

          If you leave they figure you are dischuffed, they just missed how they managed it.

          Personally I would be very offended at the idea, that I would sabotage something before I left.
          There again I did a departmental switch at one place, and they found it convenient to leave me with my access, ‘just in case’

          A month or so later, something went wrong and they rang me up to see what I’d messed about with! Nothing to do with me of course, but I pressured them into removing my old privileges for their cheek.

          So it can work both ways.

        • #2586552

          I would never jeopardize my career over a job.

          by locrian_lyric ·

          In reply to Got it in one

          I also had occasion to demand my accounts to be deleted.

          On another note….

          I was laid off from a company in 2001, then went back as a consultant in 2006.

          Some of my accounts were still there…..

          SKEEERY eh?

        • #2585354

          Me too

          by tony hopkinson ·

          In reply to I would never jeopardize my career over a job.

          Server passwords still the same and sa for the DB….

          Good job I’m honest

        • #2585281

          In the Midst

          by ananeo ·

          In reply to Got it in one

          I recently gave my two weeks notice, but for some reason nobody expects me to go anywhere, boy are they going to be suprised.
          My integrity would not allow me to do something that could ollow me around the industry the rest of my life.
          There lost, not mine.

        • #2598504

          There’s the problem

          by dr dij ·

          In reply to In the Midst

          some people DON’T think it will follow them around. What with companies afraid to give bad ref to anyone. And not everyoen is good or will do the right thing.. Some good books on insider theft of data also mention how to handle incidents of system and data destruction.

          And I was saying in orig post to evaluate each person. e.g. do they have a history of complaining or disciplinary action, previous threats to quit, layoffs, turned down for promo or bonus, or other reasons to commit destructive acts?

        • #2598516

          Richard’s Law

          by imnotlisa ·

          In reply to Richard’s Law, #37

          that’s a scary thought.

        • #2598567

          Why?

          by locrian_lyric ·

          In reply to Richard’s Law

          It’s human nature.

          by the same token, we have a hard time conceiving of the things we are not inclined to do

        • #2583756

          Exception to Richard’s Law

          by rsbowman ·

          In reply to Why?

          That is only the first time. Sometimes managers see people do things that the manager would never conceive of himself doing. He then learns to expect that behavior of others.

          It would be a mistake to judge the manager’s character by this law just because he has learned that not all people behave as he would.

        • #2583734

          all generalizations are false…

          by locrian_lyric ·

          In reply to Why?

          including this one….

          Still, unfounded accusations/suspicions are more representative of proclivity as opposed to experience.

        • #2583797

          Richard’s Law

          by ang2006 ·

          In reply to Richard’s Law, #37

          Funny I was thinking the exact same thing when I read your post. Could be a case of the pot calling the kettle black.

        • #2583789

          ..and the violators!

          by scedastic ·

          In reply to Richard’s Law, #37

          Unfortunately, not everyone keeps the law. Life has shown me that although there are many good people, there are some people out there who do “bad things” for self gain or not, which I find puzzling.

        • #2597502

          I agree with you on all points, but here is the legal reason why

          by big ole jack ·

          In reply to agreed – think of yourself in that position

          From the HR and legal standpoint, the instance you declare your 2 weeks notice, you are pretty much advertising to your employer that you are no longer part of the company and that you are voluntarily asking to be cut off from the payroll. Yes, they could be professional about it and let you work off your final 2 weeks, but those in HR and legal need to set an example and give the appearance that they are “adhering to corporate policy..aka..status quo” by escorting you out of the building and erasing all remnants and traces of you ever having worked for them, excluding your social security number so that they can process your W2 at tax time. If they pick and choose who they want to boot out and who they want to keep, they won’t have the opportunity to boot out a malicious employee when the times comes because their status quo will be challenged.

        • #2597350

          Legal and HR

          by tonyackerman ·

          In reply to I agree with you on all points, but here is the legal reason why

          Not to sound arguementative, but that course of action is irresponsible and puts the company at risk unless the actions I’ve outlined in my previous post have been taken. This is often the course recommended by groups that truly don’t understand the critical path nature of certain types of careers fields and keystone people within an organization that hasn’t taken appropriate actions in the beginnng.
          These people are not “cookie cutter” employees and should not be treated with such a cavalier attitude. Unplugging them like this is guarranteed to cause discension in the ranks and create the very situation that you want to avoid.

          Trust and professionalism is expected from both sides of this coin.

        • #2598506

          Why assume the worst?

          by dr dij ·

          In reply to Why does everyone assume the worst? It’s career suicide!

          because its happened to us. One employee of a school district my former boss was consulting with started being ‘too stressed’ to come into work. She was the only one who had the admin pwd to a unix system. She wouldn’t give it to anyone. And they had trouble firing her because school district, not private employer.

          Another person (not system admin) wouldn’t document any of her job, and erased production templates before she left. We had to scramble and rewrite some of these systems. Kind of our fault too for not backing up her PC and making her write procudures before that.

        • #2597165

          Worst possible situation, hostile leave

          by tony hopkinson ·

          In reply to Why assume the worst?

          of an employee with no documentation on what they did, could do, or have.

          Even if it’s not hostile, you are still stuffed.

          Two months wouldn’t be enough time to hand over, never mind two weeks.

    • #2584755

      Depends

      by tony hopkinson ·

      In reply to When a network administrator puts in his 2-week notice…

      on how good your procedures are. If he’s a critical, with lot’s of secrets, you are SOL.

      Is it an amicable leave?

      If they are good pay the guy, let him go. shift all the passwords, and breathe a little safer.

      Assuming he’s going to leave you in the lurch and treating him like that, is pretty much a self fulfilling prophecy though.

    • #2584742

      Exit interview

      by mjd420nova ·

      In reply to When a network administrator puts in his 2-week notice…

      We have in place an exit procedure for just those reasons. It does consist of password and access procedures for all systems and hardware. Company already had serious problems in this manner and started the routine to guard against problems. Also the manager has on record all needed info in the case of major failure or emergency. We had the lead administrator depart regretfully due to a traffic fatality and left things in fine shape but no way to make any changes. Took three weeks to cycle all hardware thru default settings to gain control and reset passwords. I wouldn’t wish that kind of hell on anyone but my worst enemy.

      • #2583728

        Change Management

        by rmcdet01 ·

        In reply to Exit interview

        I guess this is why the change management is the key where everything must go through approval and recorded. Having to say that, not all processes had been followed closely, all the pre-cautionary steps required to undo any harm that might raise in the future.

    • #2586061

      As soon as you can

      by gadgetgirl ·

      In reply to When a network administrator puts in his 2-week notice…

      get someone working in parallel with him. Make sure that person takes lots of notes for things that may be needed in future. Also keeps an eye on what he’s doing.

      Next, look at his documentation. Make sure it’s up to date, readable, followable, and makes sense. If you have time, check it through in a live situation. (I know someone who left a load of micky mouse paperwork, which wasn’t checked until a failure and was found to be absolutely useless)

      Don’t just check your back ups, check the restores, too. All programs have fads and foibles – you need to know “which way around” the program needs to be done. i.e. should folder creation be done first or last? Seems silly, but some programs crash and die if things are done in the “wrong way”.

      By all means, get all his passwords. But, please, quietly check them ALL. I know of a situation where passwords were left; the first six worked, the rest didn’t …..

      Pull any privileges he doesn’t need on a day to day basis. Gives him less opportunity to place havoc with your systems.

      For goodness sake, take his ipod, and any other devices off him! While he’s still in your employ, you have a right (or at least you do here in the UK) to check his personal possessions for data removal. It’s probably already gone, but by asking to check them, he’ll think twice about using any data he has. If necessary, get him to sign some form of words on paper to legally ensure he can’t use/keep IPR/patents on anything related to the company.

      Make sure all his user accounts not having admin access are scheduled to expire the minute he leaves the building.

      And the minute he leaves the building, change all the admin passwords you have on that checked list!

      (Needless to say, double check any that allow VPN/remote access – oh, and look for any programs that allow that too, in case he’s left himself a back door………)

      Let us know how you get on.

      Best of luck – been there, done that, escorted the guy off the premises. You need all the luck you can get!

      PM me if you need more

      GG

    • #2584127

      Immediately remove him from service.

      by mailrick ·

      In reply to When a network administrator puts in his 2-week notice…

      Disable all his access and pay him til his last day. Just discussed this yesterday in Windows Server 2003, 70-298 class. He shouldn’t take it personally – this is just a fact of life/business these days – unfortunately.

      • #2597514

        I totally agree

        by terryd64 ·

        In reply to Immediately remove him from service.

        If you are managing correctly there shouldn’t be any hidden secret procedures that nobody knows about.

        Think of the worst case scenario. Your ace administrator doesn’t file his two weeks amicably, he gets killed on his commute to or from work. What do you do then? Hold a seance to retrieve that information? Nobody is irreplacable and the sooner your employees know that the better off they and your company will be.

        There should NOT be shared administrative Passwords! These are dangerous and always run the risk of either not getting changed or being very simple.

        There SHOULD be well documented procedures for even the the simplest and most common procedures.

        It is the managers job to ensure these practices are updated and kept secure.

        If the split is amicable, the employee willl enjoy receiving 2 weeks pay for all his effort with the company.

        Last but not least, make sure your employes are aware of this policy up front when you hire them or when the policy is implemented.

      • #2597423

        I tend to agree.

        by inkling ·

        In reply to Immediately remove him from service.

        I put my two weeks in a week ago and fully expected to be shown the door right away.

        They are allowing me to work the remainder of the time, but my feelings wouldn’t have been hurt at all.

        It’s a small company and I had everything prepared for my manager (SOPs, passwords, anything that would make replacing me easier) just in case.

        My boss and I did talk about it, but he said that he trusted me. The President of the company seemed shocked that I expected that kind of treatment though.

        Either way. If I were the one making the decisions, I would have allowed me to clean my desk out and escorted me out of the building with all my best wishes.

        It’s nothing personal. Unfortunately, you have to prepare for the lowest common denominator and treat everyone accordingly to protect the company.

    • #2584113

      Is the split amicable or not?

      by feral ·

      In reply to When a network administrator puts in his 2-week notice…

      If his departure is amicable and you can only discover that with a thorough debrief then you should not have too much drama I would think.

      During his last two weeks make sure all his daily procedures are documented and you obtain passwords to all systems as suggested.

      Depending on how you intend to fill his shoes, I would hire a contractor from a reputable firm immediately to shadow and learn the role with a possibility of it going to full time.
      Once the contractor is in place then he can assume the role of admin in conjunction with the incumbent and cut over the job. The outgoing admin should be ok with this.

      Make sure the contractor is properly qualified so that he can call it out if he sees something amiss, also brief the guy to bring it quietly to your attention if he suspects mischief then go hard.

      Do not cut his access off unless you are going to terminate him immediately, that would be suicidal to the business especially if you do not have his accesses sorted out.

      If you do for whatever reason need to terminate him immediately be careful, co ordinate this so that as he is walking to the office for his termination have someone capable disable all his access, LAN, WAN and remote and take control and ownership of his profile and data.
      Check that there are no suspicious accounts on servers and disable them if there are and so on.
      Once his access is removed escort him to the office have him pack and escort him offsite, do not let him log in again for any reason.

      • #2586829

        It happened to my son and i.

        by masontony ·

        In reply to Is the split amicable or not?

        I was laid off after an eight month period with a company ,I was paid up for my two week notice and told to leave the laptop ,van keys and anything else .I was then escorted off the premises.This was not a nice feeling and was uncalled for .
        My son also works in IT and when he was attending a course which was out off his own pocket the company let him go .He was also escorted of the building and treated like a criminal .I understand they have to protect them selves but there is no call for this.

    • #2584081

      Discretion . . .

      by puchatek2 ·

      In reply to When a network administrator puts in his 2-week notice…

      Regardless of the sysadmin’s reason’s for leaving, general character, or relationship with management, you send him/her home, paid to their last day, of course, and immediately disable all their accounts, and change the admin passwords on all admin accounts and any other accounts with elevated privileges. Better to be safe than sorry.

      • #2586395

        I tend to agree…

        by angry_white_male ·

        In reply to Discretion . . .

        … it’s nothing personal, but once a network person with all of the admin rights indicates he wants to leave, he becomes a liability. IT security has been my focus for a long time and it’s all about mitigating risk. Aside from relocations and following hearts, most resignations aren’t because they’re happy… most people quit because they don’t like their job, boss, salary, co-workers, etc. So there’s a little bit of animosity.

        It’s nothing personal. No one is accusing anyone of any wrong-doing, but the potential for one last hurrah because what are we gonna do – fire someone who just quit? (and there’s plenty of stories out there about this sorta thing). Laws are still iffy at best when it comes to prosecuting these things.

        My goal is to do what’s in the best interest of my employer, not someone who’s about to walk out the door. His loyalty to me evaporated as soon as the 2-week notice landed on my desk – why should I return the favor? It’s business.

        • #2586340

          Good point, but terminations have to be handled properly and professionally

          by big ole jack ·

          In reply to I tend to agree…

          It’s never good to come off being an a–hole when terminating an employee. Also, there will be less chances of the former employee trying to enact revenge or spiteful behavior if they are terminated in a professional and appropriate manner.

        • #2585100

          Respect, but Act Quickly

          by sharpj ·

          In reply to Good point, but terminations have to be handled properly and professionally

          When I gave my notice after 10 years, my VP had all my privs removed except basic email send/rcv. Someone else packed my office and i was allowed “limited” access to the 20 bldgs around to say my good-byes, then processed thru HR and given 2 weeks pay. Like they say, it’s just good business.

        • #2597351

          Terminated Employee?

          by hforman9 ·

          In reply to Good point, but terminations have to be handled properly and professionally

          Who said an employee was being “terminated”? The title reads that the person submitted his two-week notice. This is “self-termination”. Everyone seems to be making a LOT of assumptions. The one that the employee wasn’t happy was one of these. It may just be that there was some need to “move on”. I think each case needs to be taken on it’s own merrit if the employee is resigning. Offerring to help with the transition, maybe even giving MORE than 2 weeks, if possible” should relieve the tenseness of the situation. If the employee was going to do something, it would have already been done BEFORE he or she gave notice. As the person leaving, the employee should INSIST that his access be cut prior to his actual departure to protect him from any backlash or false accusations from the company. Usually, it is the management of the company that acts childish in these situations. Rapidly escorting the employee out is not well thought out and tends to backfire. Companies can be bad-mouthed also.

          Now, terminating and employee… that is a different issue.

        • #2583808

          it is personal jerky boy!!

          by markck ·

          In reply to I tend to agree…

          i can smell you a mile away you little jerk. your one comment said it all, why should i do him any favors? typical management double speak. again, look in the mirror and realize the small, small pathetic man you really are.

        • #2583695

          His problem

          by fixit ·

          In reply to it is personal jerky boy!!

          I actually think ‘angry’ there has a problem understanding that people who are truly good at their jobs put a big piece of themselves into their work. And cant conceptualize the idea that a person might want to do him or his company harm for treating them like less than a person. So I am just thinking he might have gotten himself burned a few times with his winning personality, and is using it to justify treating good people poorly.

    • #2584079

      Has He Given Cause for Concern?

      by capnpauly ·

      In reply to When a network administrator puts in his 2-week notice…

      It’s obvious you are concerned, but do you really need to be?
      I can understand why you’d want to immediately remove his access to everything, but until you get someone to take over for him (at least in the interim, like a tech ready to ‘step-up’ or the CIO to focus on the administration side for a while) removing his access to things may cause problems because whenever he needs to do his job function(s), he will need to come to someone in authority to log him in or do a ‘Run As’.
      Going back to the ‘has he given cause for concern’ statement, has he? Does you company make people take a behavioral/psychological questionnaire (a`la PRADCO)? Were there any ‘red-flags’ that would give cause for concern?
      I’d agree that I’d try and get someone to shadow/work with him. As long as you can do that, go ahead and limit his access and just make him show the other person where to go, what to do, and how to do it.
      Good luck!

      • #2584064

        A positive spin

        by zodder ·

        In reply to Has He Given Cause for Concern?

        I was in a similar situation, but I was laid off instead of giving my 2 weeks for another job. While the urge for revenge was there, there was no way I was going to put my reputation on the line or do anything destructive to the system. I consider myself a professional and acted as such until my last day. I gave copious notes to management, created a comprehensive password list, and helped the outsourced IT people as much as I could until my last day. While I was pissed off at the circumstances surrounding the lay off, I wanted my legacy to be that of someone who cared, was competent, and was trustworthy. I hope I’m the norm and not the exception.

      • #2598601

        What I do

        by rvfrueh ·

        In reply to Has He Given Cause for Concern?

        This is what I have always done when leaving – I make sure the next person to do my job knows how, and I have all of my access limited to basic functionality, and then shadow them and have them do all of the work for 2 weeks.

    • #2584037

      Unhappy camper

      by angry_white_male ·

      In reply to When a network administrator puts in his 2-week notice…

      I know he wasn’t a happy camper the past couple of months working for me. He would often go around me and to my boss (god forbid I make people earn their paychecks here and follow the rules)… and he even decided he was going to boycott my weekly one-on-one meetings.

      If it were up to me I would have walked him out the door once I got his notice – but I’m just a mid-level manager, not my decision.

      I’ve already yanked his remote access, and I’m slowly cutting back his admin privileges that won’t impact his duties here.

      • #2586481

        Don’t make enemies.

        by locrian_lyric ·

        In reply to Unhappy camper

        their’s ‘not a happy camper’ and then there’s hostile.

        Give him a new best friend…..

        • #2597050

          until you’ve been in town long enough

          by absolutely ·

          In reply to Don’t make enemies.

          to know how to make friends via strategic choices in enemy-making!

        • #2597565

          was FORCED to do that once.

          by locrian_lyric ·

          In reply to until you’ve been in town long enough

          ended up taking out a director in the process…

          never p*ss off the little guy.

        • #2597561

          forced?

          by absolutely ·

          In reply to was FORCED to do that once.

          Tell me more. That sounds interesting.

        • #2597557

          Director was a nut…

          by locrian_lyric ·

          In reply to forced?

          This guy did CRAZY things… like beating a box fan with a 2/4, WHILE IT WAS RUNNING!!

          He also threw a block of wood at a guy and it missed his head by inches.

          The problem was this was a government job and he was ‘in’ with the party in power.

          This nut was also trying to get me fired or transferred. I allied myself with his political enemies and thus made enemies of his political allies.

          His enemies were stronger than his allies, and my new allies appreciated having the ammunition to take him out.

          I had pictures of malfeasance. I had evidence of other wrongdoings and I reported an incident against me, with witnesses.

          He immediately tried to get me reassigned, but my new allies blocked him, and banned him from my building. LOL!

          He eventually ended up losing his job, thanks to our efforts.

          And it all started because he wanted to replace me with a political cronie…

      • #2586394

        Though shalt not piss off the underlings

        by big ole jack ·

        In reply to Unhappy camper

        Being an owner of my own firm, it’s wise to never create enemies with your fellow coworkers or subordinates. There is nothing more sinister than having an employee leave on bad terms and taking all the access password with him/her. Be sure you have everything documented and make sure the usernames and passwords you have do indeed work…don’t take anybody’s word for it. It is standard practice to escort the person out as soon as notice is given, but if the relationship was good and there was a good level of trust, then you can let this person serve out their final two weeks. In your case, it sounds like this person might resort to malicious behavior, so I’d err on the side of caution and legal liability and boot him out pronto.

        • #2598494

          Some will be PO’d anyway

          by dr dij ·

          In reply to Though shalt not piss off the underlings

          no matter what you do, no matter that your paying them a good wage they think they should have more, no matter that you’re the boss they make people dependant on them as they won’t show anyone else how to run a process to generate data, etc.

          There’s endless bogus reasons to be disgruntled and some will be whatever you do. You can’t make friends with them all. You treat them in standard professional fashion and they’re still intolerable.

        • #2598480

          But why give them cause?

          by locrian_lyric ·

          In reply to Some will be PO’d anyway

          You can’t please everyone, but some of the things *I* have seen go beyond the pale and have in every instance destroyed loyalty and morale among the remaining folks…

          “Gee, did you see what they did to Dave? They took him to lunch and removed him from the system while he was out” (happened to a former coworker)

          “Did you see that, they sent security to his cube, turned off his computer, gave him five minutes to pack up and escorted him out. Not only that, they searched him on the way out” (happened to me)

          After incident #1, a number of folks found other work, and didn’t give notice.

          After incident #2, same thing.

          You come down too heavy handed, and you get your remaining employees wondering how THEY will be treated.

        • #2597468

          That’s tru but

          by dr dij ·

          In reply to But why give them cause?

          it goes both ways. Contractor I was working with was let go. Contractors have no expecation of notice. My boss told him but not me. A few hours later, boss tells me. I go look at his desk (had left by then) and he had been shredding then trashing listings of stuff he was working on.

          Fortunatly the reason we let him go was because he hadn’t done pretty much of anything in all the time he’d been there so wasn’t much loss.

          I’m just saying there are stupid companies and stupic employees. And the company can’t depend on Karma to keep its systems secure. which reminds me of a gal who drove her mustang around and never locked it.. depended on ‘karma’ or ‘Carma’ to keep it from being burgled. Didn’t work.

        • #2597459

          Three kinds of people

          by locrian_lyric ·

          In reply to That’s tru but

          People who are always professional
          People who are never professional
          People who are swayed by circumstance.

          The first type, you don’t have to worry about. The second, you can’t stop. The third, you don’t want to piss off.

        • #2597398

          I disagree

          by absolutely ·

          In reply to Three kinds of people

          Everybody is “swayed” by circumstance. Some tend more towards professionalism than others. Those that tend away from it intentionally should be identified easily, and never hired — for anything!

        • #2598206

          I won’t ever be swayed from my professionalism

          by locrian_lyric ·

          In reply to Three kinds of people

          I am a professional.

          I value my career.

          I will always conduct myself as a professional.

          I will never act unethically towards an employer.

      • #2583833

        of course

        by mknapp231 ·

        In reply to Unhappy camper

        Of course we only hear YOUR side of the story….

      • #2597395

        Cut Him off Now!!!

        by troylhutchison ·

        In reply to Unhappy camper

        You need to close his account and thank him for his service and show him the door.

    • #2584025

      Is he a professional?

      by taboga ·

      In reply to When a network administrator puts in his 2-week notice…

      That’s what it boils down to, doesn’t it? I mean, if anyone would have ever treated me like a criminal suspect after I had done the professional thing by giving an appropriate notice, I would have rescinded it and quit on the spot!

      If an employee is the ONLY person who has access to something, or is the only one who knows the “how to” for something — that was management’s first mistake. A lesson should be learned THERE.

      But if the guy is a professional and is doing the right thing and I already have someone who can step in (if only temporarily) and do his job — I let him go right away and pay him for the two weeks. Why? Because he is leaving for a REASON. It may be money, it may be he is not satisified with job, future or whatever — but he’s leaving for a reason. And if I am paying him for a two-week vacation before he starts his new job, whatever his reason for leaving was, he will probably leave on good terms and not have a bone to pick with us in the future. And he won’t be going around for the next two weeks telling everyone how much he’s looking forward to leaving and how the job and/or the company “sucks”. We don’t need that. And besides, no one really does any WORK in their last two weeks anyway — so it’s not like you’re losing anything by letting him go early.

    • #2584024

      Put him on the “bench” – to be called for emegency, only.

      by beoweolf ·

      In reply to When a network administrator puts in his 2-week notice…

      Explain to the departing admin that you need to insure things will function in his absence, so he will not need to directly address any more issue. What you want him to do is monitor the system and direct any anomalies to the person he thinks is best suited to resolve the problem. Any problems that person has repairing or configuring the problem – he is to assist by suggesting the correct procedure, directing the operator to the correct documentation. If documentation is non-existent, he should spend whatever time he is not assisting, in preparing those documents.

      Also, the day that you are first informed of his resignation, take a full system backup which should be stored indefinitely. When his replacement arrives, another full system backup should be done as part of turnover. The before/after backups are a good way to protect both administrators. The unfortunate truth is – it is also SOP for the arriving administrator to blame any mistakes on “previous” administrators. Taking both backups is good way to keep both of them honest.

      As far as passwords, access security, etc. There are more than enough suggested procedures, processes detailing how to handle this subject – matter of fact, each functioning IT department should have this in system documentation along with disaster recovery and other “remedial” procedures.

      In the past, when I have left a company, I would have the next inline change all passwords while I was still there. That way he would have them and I would not know them. If something came up that required me to use that level of access, I would have him change to a temporary password, do what I had to do, then he would change it back to the new secret.

      In essence, I put myself in the role of a consultant until departure. (Note: True to form, I was still blamed for inadequacies of the new staff, but the preparation I did before leaving was able to successfully defend my reputation. Remember, your reputation; for honesty, integrity, organization will follow you throughout your IT career. It is in your best interest to defend it religiously, even after you move on to the next job.).

      • #2583907

        May Be for Naught…

        by myads1 ·

        In reply to Put him on the “bench” – to be called for emegency, only.

        Once I realized that a previous employer placed no value on what I did, I silently inserted ONE LINE of code that would shut everything the app I designed down after some odd number of days (20-30ish) if I didn’t log in to the program. The error message would point any debuggers in the wrong direction, and the strange timeframe would reduce suspiscion of sabatoge. At the same time, any sort of amicable leaving would have made me immediately remove this code (yeah they didn’t appreciate me, but at the same time I didn’t want to burn all bridges unless they did it first). So even your outline process, while much more secure that most mentioned, isn’t fireproof.

        • #2597525

          That’s one way of sticking it to the man

          by big ole jack ·

          In reply to May Be for Naught…

          I’d take respect and a pat on the back for a job well done over an increase in money, but to disrespect me is asking for trouble. I show respect towards others and demand the same in return.

    • #2584003

      Talk it over first

      by bwilkes8 ·

      In reply to When a network administrator puts in his 2-week notice…

      From a management perspective, you have to way the good and the bad. How bad to you need his services? How much institutional knowledge does he hold? Have you noticed a decline is his performance or work? This is not an easy question because maybe he is a great person, no risk to security, and has been on staff since day one. Now a better opportunity, a career change or even a family tragedy has occurred and he is simply making changes in his life to accommodate them. You need to talk with him if at all possible to get a full picture of his situation, his mindset, his mood and then make a determination on how to or how not to deal with nixing his network privileges.

      • #2583692

        I can relate to a great deal of this.

        by andrewaaa3 ·

        In reply to Talk it over first

        I recently had to leave due to a family tragedy.The company called in a system audit as soon as they received my resignation. The consultant was all over me, reduced my system priveledges, and I did not sabotage anything, and so I let them do all of the work during my last 2 weeks, while I “supervised”.The benefit of NOT doing anything naughty, keeps them wondering what I “might” have done…..keep them guessing.

      • #2617616

        Be careful about that talk

        by firebugsbm ·

        In reply to Talk it over first

        You have to be careful about your talk because anyone can site family reasons for quiting a job when it may be that you are unhappy with the job or your treatment by one or two individuals at your job.

        I’ve done it myself after a previous experience told me to err on the side of caution. These jobs may not have been in the it field itself but treatment of employees goes towards any company if you think about it.

        I quit one job because one of the supervisors was treating me like a useless piece of crap. The management knew I was unhappy so when I gave my 2 weeks they proceeded to fire me because they were afraid of what I might do to damage their companies reputation with their clients from within my department.

        The second job I quit was because I was unhappy with the way management was too disorganized (as well as the fact that my direct co-worker had a penchant to be verbally abusive), but I cited family reasons for quitting that one and they kept me around to finish out my two weeks.

    • #2583999

      The Remaining Employees are Observant

      by turbinepilot ·

      In reply to When a network administrator puts in his 2-week notice…

      About two years ago a new business opened in the area and they began hiring staff, many of them away from other local businesses.

      One of the existing businesses got the bright idea to immediately terminate any employee who gave their two weeks notice to move to the new company… without pay.

      Seems the remaining employees at this particular business shifted their strategy to only give notice the day they were planning to leave.

      Whatever policy you implement for the first admin’s departure will be observed by the remaining ones. If an employee has an axe to grind he’ll simply do the mischief before giving notice. The good employee who is leaving will contine to act with professionalism and integrity.

      The point is there is no policy that you can implement that will prevent mischief. You should only placed trusted employees in the admin positions. If they are no longer earning your trust you should remove them from any admin position long before you get a two week notice from them.

      • #2583991

        Well…

        by angry_white_male ·

        In reply to The Remaining Employees are Observant

        We place a lot of trust in people all the time, but you won’t always know if they have an ulterior motive until it’s too late.

        We will debrief the individual. Our staff attorney will read him the riot act – put him on notice that if we discover anything, that we will prosecute. Standard stuff.

        We’re yanking all admin access that he doesn’t need.

        I’m pushing to have him put on the bench til his last day since he’s not doing much til then anyway.

        • #2586486

          Careful…

          by locrian_lyric ·

          In reply to Well…

          you just may teach your other employees to *NOT* give notice… ever.

          Plus, your company may earn a bad rep.

        • #2586390

          It’s never good advice to “threaten” a terminated employee with lawsuit

          by big ole jack ·

          In reply to Careful…

          He/she can countersue and state all sorts of things about your company, whether or not they are true, but your company will get sucker punched with a suit and will waste money on defending itself against a frivolous lawsuit. People will do all sorts of spiteful things when they are angry, so don’t push your luck by throwing your attorney and legal mumbo jumbo at terminated employees. They’ve read the policies prior to hiring, signed on the dotted line, and therefore are bound by the legal language. By saying things like “If we find anything…we will prosecute”. Define what you mean by “anything” and how would you prove it was the terminated employee’s fault and not somebody else at fault? Labor laws are on the side of the employee, so be careful in how you deal with a termination, as many firms have been sued out of existence by terminated employees for improper termination or other matters deemed to have been violations of labor laws.

        • #2586361

          Beware the ‘little guy’

          by locrian_lyric ·

          In reply to It’s never good advice to “threaten” a terminated employee with lawsuit

          You can do anything to a person and their anger will subside, unless you humiliate them.

          that is the one injury that no man has ever forgotten and will take years to seek revenge over.

        • #2586425

          You get what you give

          by fixit ·

          In reply to Well…

          I have a friend who got the sit down with the lawyer treatment, and lost her admin privileges the day she told her boss she was putting in her notice because she was moving to follow her boyfriend.
          The result of this for the company was a disaster. They treated her like a criminal because she gave notice. Her response was to simply use all of her vacation and leave.
          So when they called her to ask her a question only she could answer she said I will be right down. She showed up with a new consulting contract they had to sigh to get any answers out of her at all. She wanted $1000.00 dollars an hour minimum one hour.
          Within three weeks they had no choice but to sign it. And before you ask, she had given them all her passwords. She was just the only one who could do her job.

        • #2586415

          you’re friend was nicer than mine…

          by locrian_lyric ·

          In reply to You get what you give

          When their systems crashed and they were losing 1 MILLION a month, they begged him for help.

          He told them to pound sand.

        • #2586372

          I was there

          by fixit ·

          In reply to you’re friend was nicer than mine…

          The funny thing is they called me and wanted me to fix the app., I program in perl and c# and Basic etc., but I didn’t write the app. and she didn’t comment the source other than basic variable explanation. So they are losing money hand over fist and trying to get me to trick her into telling me how to fix it.
          But I am not a programmer, I am a network administrator and hardware geek. So I tried but in the end they had to pay. That is what you get when you treat good people like crap. The company did fire the manager that caused the whole problem, but it took them a while to do it.

        • #2586362

          same thing happened with my friend’s former manager.

          by locrian_lyric ·

          In reply to I was there

          My friend’s former manager and his bean-counting buddy BOASTED over how much money they saved by letting him go…

          He was making WELL into the six-figure range. This guy is about the most brilliant guy I know, and was worth every penny, btw.

          Anyway…

          Jerk1 and Jerk2 BEGGED him to bail their backsides out after they were made to explain WHY they let go of the only man who knew what was going on with mission critical systems.

          He was already working elsewhere and wouldn’t go back to that commpany for any price.

          The two jerks were eventually fired, but like with your friend, it took a while

        • #2586349

          Ahh yes…poetic justice works in mysterious ways

          by big ole jack ·

          In reply to same thing happened with my friend’s former manager.

          It’s never professional to boast or brag about an employee’s termination, whether it be voluntary or involuntary. I’m glad those two jackasses got their butts kicked out of the company because in the narrow minded MBA mentality of trying to “save” the company money, they actually lost money for the company by creating an immediate void in a system that required specialized talent. Also, it’s the management’s fault for creating this “one man show” situation in which nobody else knows anything about the system, other than the immediate guy who was fired. I can see why he didn’t want to share his knowledge in the name of job security, but such an attitude is also wrong on the part of the employee.

        • #2586330

          He wasn’t knowledge-hording…

          by locrian_lyric ·

          In reply to same thing happened with my friend’s former manager.

          He had a FINE attitude and did not horde knowledge, nor did he do anything for job security.

          Anything they wanted, they got from him. When he asked for help, or to cross-train others so he could take the occasional vacation, they poo-pooed him.

          His hands are completely clean, which made the situation all the more satisfying for him.

          They contacted him six months later begging and pleading, and he let them twist in the wind.

        • #2586246

          Same deal

          by fixit ·

          In reply to same thing happened with my friend’s former manager.

          She was not hording knowledge. She repeatedly tried to get them to let her train some one else to handle vacation time etc. but they were too tight. This kinda stuff happens when people kiss ass to get into management instead of work to get there. The manager that she worked for could not do ANY job in his department, and had no idea how critical his Lead (only) programmer was.

        • #2586371

          I would have done the same exact thing as her

          by big ole jack ·

          In reply to You get what you give

          It’s bad enough to get walked out the door like some criminal, but it’s even worst when they call you after termination, asking for advice or information. Termination is termination, and if anyone from my former employer wants further information from me, they will have to cough up a good chunk of change for my consulting services. Basically, they reap what they sow when they treat terminated employees like potential hackers or disgruntled employees. You want my help after you boot me out the door? Sure, but it will cost ya big!

        • #2586392

          Severance Pay

          by bwilkes8 ·

          In reply to Well…

          Why not just read him the riot act, give him two weeks severance pay and be safe instead of sorry. Sometimes foresight is a life saver.

        • #2583784

          Riot act?

          by david ·

          In reply to Well…

          If things were pleasant they will not be after the company lawyer “reads him the riot act”. If he wanted to do harm, it is already done. Any mischief is a reflection of his character and how your company has treated him over the years. Warning him now may create ill will that may not have been there to begin with. Get the info you need, buy him lunch, pay him for the two weeks notice and tell him to enjoy the time off, he deserves a few days of leisure.

        • #2583740

          Well done on potentially shafting yourself.

          by darryl.genner ·

          In reply to Well…

          Let me give you a little bit of free knowledge here “angry_white_male”. Maybe you’ve forgotten this but the guy that you’ve just finished insulting by spitting on his loyalty is a person. People are emotional animals, like you yourself – you’re angry. The guy who you’ve just had spend an afternoon with your lawyer is now hurt. You’ve bruised his sense of worth because you’ve shown him that you don’t trust him and he’s also angry now because you’ve had the company shark threaten him. You have belittled this poor person and branded them a criminal and they resent you for it, they resent you even more for the fact that the letter of referral that they were probably hoping for now either won?t materialise or won?t have any worth.

          Now maybe it’s just me, but are you trying to ‘invite’ him to do harm to your company?

          It’s that threatening that has me going. I’m very happy to admit that I personally shut down the last company that threatened me as an employee. I don’t like being threatened and I can’t think of many people who do. People – like all animals respond in unpredictable ways when they feel ill at ease. Threatening somebody will put them ill at ease.

          Your actions as you describe them are paranoid and childish. You would do well to learn that a far better job can be done of avoiding damage by treating people with respect and allowing them to retain their dignity, or as you Americans love to say their ‘liberty’.

        • #2583702

          Yes

          by fixit ·

          In reply to Well done on potentially shafting yourself.

          Exactly my point!

        • #2597562

          “UNTRUSTWORTHY??? I’LL SHOW ‘EM ‘UNTRUSTWORTHY’! “

          by locrian_lyric ·

          In reply to Yes

          Yep,

          that’s the attitude you want to engender in a soon to be ex-employee.

          that is, if you want to spend a few million repairing the systems….

          nothing is more dangerous than a determined individual with a hurt sense of pride.

        • #2597520

          And don’t forget the cost involved in bringing a suit against the employee

          by big ole jack ·

          In reply to “UNTRUSTWORTHY??? I’LL SHOW ‘EM ‘UNTRUSTWORTHY’! “

          Will they really waste more money suing an ex employee and prove it was his/her sabotage when they’ve already shafted themselves by creating the mess they are in? I’ve found that in many cases like this, the jury sides with the employee and the employer is slapped with another expense on top of the damages they have already incurred.

        • #2597509

          AND, prosecution won’t recover the cost….

          by locrian_lyric ·

          In reply to And don’t forget the cost involved in bringing a suit against the employee

          IT guy does 5 million against your system.

          good luck getting blood from a stone.

      • #2586482

        Great Point!

        by locrian_lyric ·

        In reply to The Remaining Employees are Observant

        Either the person is trustworthy or that person is NOT trustworthy.

        The fact that they gave notice is an indication of the former.

        This kind of situation can be handled delicately without making the person and other employees feel criminal.

        All you have to do is move to an immediate knowledge transfer, give the employee a “new best friend” who will accompany him to all meetings, sit with him for knowledge transfers, et cetera….

      • #2586459

        The sensible approach

        by audreyd ·

        In reply to The Remaining Employees are Observant

        I agree completely with Turbinepilot! If management comes down hard on the employee who is leaving, other employees will notice; it could influence their own attitude towards managament, especially if they think the departing employee is fully professional and trusted. Angry_White_Male’s name indicates to me that he may be reacting emotionally rather than rationally. If the employee was always highly trusted, the departure friendly, I wouldn’t come down so hard on the guy during the last 2 weeks. It sets a bad example for the rest of the staff.

        In my world, we do that type of shutdown on privileges only for people who might have an axe to grind with the employer. After all, we have had to occasionally phone former employees to pick their brains after they leave.

        • #2586399

          Not a long-term employee

          by angry_white_male ·

          In reply to The sensible approach

          He’s only been with us for 7 months, and it was pretty apparent he wasn’t happy here from the get-go… as if he made a mistake in quitting his last job and coming here thinking this was a big step up (it was a lateral move for him at best – and I made it clear to him that was the case).

          Tried telling him to hang on – we’re hiring more people soon so he could work on stuff he’s got the talent for, but he didn’t want to hang around much longer.

          He hasn’t absorbed that much institutional knowledge, so there’s not a lot to transfer from him other than some updates on the projects he was assigned to, and that are mostly done anyway.

        • #2586388

          Hind-sight is good

          by bwilkes8 ·

          In reply to Not a long-term employee

          But foresight is better and it sounds like there might be a little there, protect your resources, deny his privileges and reassign him a guest account, CYA, cover your butt and your company’s. But as many have said, treat him with respect so that others will see that the company doesn’t “dump on” an individual leaving.

          Tough call to make, but leaders have to make decisions that not everyone will like.

    • #2586357

      Fired!

      by online4 ·

      In reply to When a network administrator puts in his 2-week notice…

      I was in a situation similar to Zodder’s, but instead of being laid off I was fired. I worked for a law firm where my boss, the executive administrator, was answerable to the shareholding attorneys, one of which I had apparently pissed off. After nine years as senior half of the IT department, my boss had to let me go because he was told to. It was a total surprise to me, and was quite upsetting to him.

      My boss bent over backwards to ease the pain, while taking care of the firm’s interests as well. They gave me all the help they could finding a new job, and kept me on at full pay for two months with the understanding that I would receive bonuses if I stayed and helped them through the transition. They even let me keep my firm laptop and PDA. They brought in a more than competent replacement who has only had to call me twice for minor things (for which I didn’t charge the firm; both items were answered with a one minute phone call).

      I spent six months finding a new job (more pay, less stress, and much closer to home), but I still have friends at the old place and even drop in occasionally. Neither side burned its bridges, and I feel good that we both acted with integrity. I still don’t know which attorney was responsible for my demise (though I have my suspicions), so I just don’t talk to any of the shareholders anymore.

      • #2586347

        Lawyers and doctors are the worst

        by big ole jack ·

        In reply to Fired!

        They are spoiled beyond belief and believe that the world revolves around them. Good luck trying to support these clowns who simply fail to comprehend that what they want and what is technologically feasible are two different things.

    • #2586341

      Legal Ramifications

      by your mom 2.0 ·

      In reply to When a network administrator puts in his 2-week notice…

      Couldn’t a disgruntled employee be convicted or sued in a civil case for sabotaging and/or stealing data?

      You mentioned that the employee could have loaded his iPod with info to use against your company…are we just talking trade -secrets and proprietary info or something illegal that the employee could use to blackmail you?

      I’d like to think that something could be done in a legal sense if someone sabotaged my systems or stole data.

      And even if this guy held all of the “keys to the kingdom”, I’m sure you could farm out the job of recovering this info to a hired gun.

      • #2586339

        Anyone is expendable, but how much is one willing to pay for it?

        by big ole jack ·

        In reply to Legal Ramifications

        That’s the ultimate question to be pondered by the bean counters who cut the checks.

      • #2586703

        Could be worse

        by bharris09 ·

        In reply to Legal Ramifications

        The iPod may contain records of the company’s illegal activities. Admins may very well know “where the bodies are buried”..

      • #2598605

        And what if they pull a Gonzales?

        by dr dij ·

        In reply to Legal Ramifications

        i.e. fed employee Gonzales who has ‘forgot’ about what happened.

        In the case where the school IT employee was the only one with the unix system admin password the system had to be reformatted.

        What would a case have done? Maybe a year later it would have come to trial, and she could have claimed she ‘forgot’ the password.

        And in the unlikely but possible case she really had ‘forgotten’, maybe stroke or hit on the head or car accident, what would putting her in jail accomplish? If she had passed away, they’d be in same position but no legal case.

        In the meantime they were out of use of the system for a year if they did that. In the end bad managment put themselves in that position by having only one person knowing critical info.

        • #2583682

          You Guys need to Wake Up

          by jc2it ·

          In reply to And what if they pull a Gonzales?

          All of us are mortal, and as such no single person should have the keys to any system. At my place of business we always have a minimum of three people that know the passwords of any system. Passwords are also written down and kept under lock and key. If you are foolish enough to operate this way then you deserve the consequences of your laziness.

          The fact of the matter is that people fall off the face of the earth, all of the time, for a variety of different reasons. Just like any other catastrophe that we need to mitigate, people must be replaceable.

    • #2586320

      Talk with him

      by jmgarvin ·

      In reply to When a network administrator puts in his 2-week notice…

      Find out why he is leaving and what the conditions are. I’d also try to get his replacement online before he leaves. This means that the replacement is available and trained, but also it makes it much harder for him to walk with a bunch of data.

      It also boils down to trust. You trusted him when he was still with you, why should you stop trusting him now?

      • #2586298

        agreed

        by apotheon ·

        In reply to Talk with him

        In fact, an experience with an employer taking the “lock out technical personnel the moment they look like they’re leaving”, and losing some data that was actually [b]mine[/b] as a result, has led me to believe that in every case I should always ensure I have personal backups of [b]everything[/b]. I’m an ethical guy — I’m not going to misuse any information I have about the company and its network — so anything I find I have that I shouldn’t after leaving a company, I’ll just delete. The risk to the companies out there created by the prevalence of this sort of untrusting attitude is greater than the benefit, though, because it just teaches all technical personnel to prepare for being locked out.

        . . . which means some of the company’s data is likely to be duplicated off-site.

        I know what I’m doing, and am attentive enough, to ensure that I don’t put an employer at risk when I prepare to cover my own fourth point of contact. Not everyone is me, though. Do you really want to encourage them to, for instance, keep backups of critical corporate data on poorly-secured home computers?

        • #2586276

          Get Something in Writing

          by your mom 2.0 ·

          In reply to agreed

          …that basically says that if you screw with us or steal our data for malicious purposes, we’ll sue and/or arrest you.

          Seems like it would drive the point home. And when done correctly, it comes across as standard procedure. Maybe right before the exit interview.

    • #2586248

      Possible damage is already done…

      by support ·

      In reply to When a network administrator puts in his 2-week notice…

      There really is no reason to fire him/her immediately.

      Admins aren’t (usually) stupid. The admin did not make this decision overnight, and has already copied files or done damage to your resources if s/he was inclined to do so. 99% of all admins know that they will be dismissed immediately and take any steps they feel necessary BEFORE they hand in a resignation.

      Use this time to get all of the knowledge that you can from the soon-to-be ex-employee. S/He should not be doing daily work, but should be transferring critical job task, password and company process information to one or more persons that are staying.

      If your company was smart, you wouldn’t have a single admin anyway and this procedure should be pretty painless.

      Hire a replacement asap and always be sure to have 2 equally skilled employees assigned to any position that can bring your company to its knees.

      Your best line of defense is open communications. Unless you keep your admin in a server closet, s/he will reveal his/her feelings about the job and company in his/her daily conversations. If they are ALWAYS negative, first look into the complaints and see if there is truly a company problem that should and can be addressed. If the complaints can be addressed do it.

      Second, if the complaints are unfounded or simply out of the company’s ability to change go ahead and find a replacement for the complaining admin before you get that dreaded letter of resignation. If you (DISCRETELY) find a replacement, that’s the time to call in your admin, fire the admin and lead him/her out of the building.

    • #2586243

      Why is everyone so distrusting?

      by jmgarvin ·

      In reply to When a network administrator puts in his 2-week notice…

      It seems like everyone is ready to hang this guy, when it isn’t apparent if he’s done ANYTHING besides quit.

      First and foremost we are professionals. Second, it would have to be a highly unethical person that would steal your data and bring it with them. Third, do you treat all employees as if they were thieves when they leave?

      So bizarre.

      • #2586231

        It’s a bit like DRM, I suppose.

        by apotheon ·

        In reply to Why is everyone so distrusting?

        People are so short-sighted that they think the only way to protect yourself from bad people is to punish everyone, good people included.

      • #2586757

        Public Sector

        by angry_white_male ·

        In reply to Why is everyone so distrusting?

        I should probably add that we’re a public sector employer that has to live within the framework of regulatory compliance. We get audited regularly by the state and they look at things like controls, process, policy, etc.

        I run things by the book here. If a departing network administrator wants to screw things up – it’s my ass on the line, not his. I have a mortgage to pay and mouths to feed and I’m not gonna let someone leaving us screw it up for me. Sorry for not being squishy about hurting someone’s feelings on their way out the door. Nothing personal, it’s business. It’s best practices. It’s having good controls in place. It’s ensuring that my IT dept isn’t front page news because of poor security practices.

        • #2586548

          It’s . . .

          by apotheon ·

          In reply to Public Sector

          “[i]Nothing personal, it’s business. It’s best practices. It’s having good controls in place. It’s ensuring that my IT dept isn’t front page news because of poor security practices.[/i]”

          It’s a good way to ensure that your lack of trust encourages people to distrust you, leading to more likelihood of someone [b]wanting[/b] to screw you over.

        • #2598599

          So locking your door

          by dr dij ·

          In reply to It’s . . .

          means to someone that you don’t trust them and therefore they’re conna be ticked off about it and more likely to break thru the door and steal from you? That’s what your saying sounds like. That’s cyclical reasoning.

          People will get ticked off regardless of how you treat them. You still need security procedures in place for destructive acts.

          Insider theft (non destructive acts) tho is likely to have occured prior to the notice. So locking won’t do much good in that regard as if it was going to happen most likely did already, except for (possibly) the departing sales person, etc who didn’t think till last moment to take your customer list with them.

          Or IT person who wants source code, etc but didn’t think to take it earlier before notice.

        • #2598414

          Good job.

          by apotheon ·

          In reply to So locking your door

          Please keep misrepresenting what I said to construct straw men you can attack in lieu of actual counterarguments. I think that tactic is working well for you.

        • #2598351

          If we are discussing a professional Admin who gave notice . . .

          by neon samurai ·

          In reply to So locking your door

          Then the admin should already be pretty sure of how a good will departure should go. Assuming it ended under good relations, I, as admin, would be expecting my security to be reduced, tasks to be handed off and replacement shadowing me. Heck, if I’m admin and no reasonable security precautions are taken when I tell them I’m leaving then I know there’s good reason to wish them luck and head off.

          I would also just like to mention again that if this person is a network admin who does read TR, this may have been the wrong medium for discussion.

          (Crap, did it again, anyone know where the dictionary I keep accidentally adding words to is kept? I’ll go check the firefox folder under my ~ dir to start.)

        • #2585306

          Pencil pusher

          by fixit ·

          In reply to Public Sector

          You sir are a pencil pusher! I have never been ‘job scared’, it literally takes me two days to find a new job if I quit one. If you allow yourself to treat people poorly because you are afraid you could lose your job, you deserve to lose it! Integrity is worth alot more than a paycheck.

          Some one, in a comment above, wrote that your reputation will proceed you in your I.T. career, and they were very correct. It will also proceed you in your management career, probably even more so. Loyalty is a two way street sir!

        • #2598595

          Standard procedures

          by dr dij ·

          In reply to Pencil pusher

          such as lockdown, are not ‘treating people poorly’. And a desire to keep a system running and protect your employer is not ‘odd’ or ‘bad’ as you seem to imply.

          If you left the locks to your front door of your company unlocked any time or just after someone leaves, then he or someone else comes in and destroys everything, YOU will be the one who suffers, not him.

          You may be out of a job. Locking down systems is simply due diligence and ITIL not some Orwellian security guards with truncheons nightmare.

          To suggest people shouldn’t protect their systems sounds incredibly stupid. Locking someone out of critical systems when they are about to not be employed anymore sounds totally reasonable.

          You’re going to do it anyway two weeks later.. Do you have no responsibilities? Perhaps you just graduated or something?

          What would proceed him in his management career is if he let an infantile person who left or before they left, destroy a company when he could have had procedures to easily prevent this. the problem is you CAN’T trust everyone. No ‘love everyone’ words or glossing over change this.

          Tho reasonable procedures such as evaluating risks of individuals, backing up, etc ameliorate and almost eliminate these risks.

        • #2598483

          remember

          by fixit ·

          In reply to Standard procedures

          We are talking about a GOOD employee who gave you his two weeks notice. Not some one you are about to fire. People who give notice should not be treated as criminals. You never know the guy might just help you make the transition smoother, make him mad and you get no help.

        • #2597051

          What a load of hooey

          by absolutely ·

          In reply to Public Sector

          Not your commentary, but the subject of it.

          [i]I run things by the book here. If a departing network administrator wants to screw things up – it’s my ass on the line, not his.[/i]

          I’ve noticed that what you’re saying is true, but what a pile of hooey the situation is.

          [i]Sorry for not being squishy about hurting someone’s feelings on their way out the door.[/i]

          Feelings be damned, it’s taxpayer expense that annoys me. It’s utter hogwash that the only way for you to have a reasonable certainty that you [u]won’t[/u] get wrecked is to waste taxpayer money. In turn, it’s our fault as taxpayer/voters that we’ve condoned, encouraged of demanded this crap. Somebody should do something about it.

          :^0

        • #2596944

          When a network administrator puts in his 2-week notice

          by tonyackerman ·

          In reply to Public Sector

          Been a lot of discussion on this, most good, some not. My 22 yr’s worth of experience, from both sides of the fence and in both good and bad situations below.

          First off and I realize that it’s a bit late now, plan time into ANY admin’s schedule for documenting procedure. Very few places that I have worked seem to realize the importance of planning this into the schedule, and almost none realize how randomized an admin’s day becomes in such a short period of time. Give them time to breathe and expect others in the company to abide by it. These people are the ones that are keeping the wheels turning, give them a chance to keep their tools, documentation and house in order.

          The documentation doesn’t have to be written in detailed tech speak, but it should outline enough detail to allow a relative newcomer to be able to follow the notes and keep your company out of trouble. Any admin worth their salt will be willing to do this and be willing to share their knowledge. Being the priest/priestess of secret knowledge is old school and should get you shown the door. Sharing your knowledge shows that you’re a team player and should entrust you with greater responsibilities and greater opportunities.

          Second, do NOT alienate this person UNLESS there is a confirmed reason to suspect a potential security breach. If that case exists, get them out the door NOW and live with the consequences. Hire in whatever expertise you need to pick up the pieces, but don’t put yourself at further risk by keeping that person around. If this person is has not given you reason to suspect malfeasance, then don’t treat them like they’re a criminal. Treat them with respect and professionalism.

          Third, explain the needs that you have and ask their help and cooperation in minimizing the impact of their leaving. Do not be patronizing, be professional and clearly outline your needs (not expectations, your NEEDS, there is a big difference). Ask their buy-in to meet these needs. Ask them if they would be willing to extend their time with you in the case a catastrophe were to occur (so few places plan for this contingency). Jointly determine what set of conditions need to be met in order to bring your operation back online. If this person is willing to extend their stay under this contingency, come to an agreement on how long that extension would last. If not, you must to put a plan together to cover this contingency.

          Fourth, ask them what they can do in the time remaining to help meet those needs and then clear their schedule of anything that would obstruct their ability to meet those agreed upon objectives. Explain that from your position, meeting those needs is now the most important set of objectives that they have to meet, everything else short of a major catastrophe is secondary, and MEAN it. From experience I can tell you there is nothing more frustrating than to have work that was deemed critical path interrupted by some user who was having trouble with a print job. (WTFO, I thought that I was to focus on this procedural documentation and not have to deal with this routine stuff. What is really important here, my knowledge or squeezing me for every last little fixit job?).

          Fifth, explain that immediately AFTER they leave, the passwords and access that they have has to be changed, not by them. This isn’t a statement of distrust, it’s a matter of procedure and for security audit reasons. They should expect this and it should not come as a surprise, but it needs to be clearly stated and articulated for legal reasons. Outline what accounts are going to have passwords changed and what access methods are going to be disabled. Ask if there are other accounts/access methods that THEY know about that have not been mentioned. You’re showing them the trust and respect they deserve and you’re giving them the chance to show that that trust and respect is well placed. By offering the chance to present any remaining information that you may need to know and to confirm what needs to be addressed, you’ve covered your butt and theirs. This is CRITICAL.

          Last, leave the door open. If this person was viewed as valuable enough to add to your team when they first came on, after they leave you may find that they had become even more valuable and you just didn’t realize it. You may find that you want them back and for them the grass may not be greener after all.

          If an admin is really good at their job, you won’t even notice what it is that they do, that’s what they should be striving to achieve. Too often, admin’s are not very good at bringing their achievements to the attention of those that they work for, and as a result their work and achievements are overlooked and unappreciated. Guard against that and your retention of these contributors will be much better.

        • #2583850

          A little late

          by tuvals ·

          In reply to When a network administrator puts in his 2-week notice

          If this individual gave two weeks notice and is a good employee asking him to document what he does is to much to little to late. If someone is leaving and you now, for the possibly first time have a long talk with him you just blew it. You can respectfully pay him/her for the two weeks and walk him/her out the door or ask them during that two week period to train another individual. Most companies today do not have an overflow of talent and may be hard pressed to put someone as knowledgeable in the job. I speak from experience as a retired project manager with a large corporation who was called back (working for a vendor) to do the same job. I am now working for a company where I had to use my past experience to build up contacts, etc. I may be an exception to the rule but I have a full set of desktop procedures documented in case the time comes when I will leave. Whether they let me hang around for two weeks or pay me and walk me out the door is totally acceptable. It is only a job and if one makes a decision to leave and gives notice it is a done deal.

        • #2583690

          You rock!

          by fixit ·

          In reply to When a network administrator puts in his 2-week notice

          This guy is some one worth working for. He understands the JOB that he has. Angry, read and learn!

      • #2597465

        Is the assumption “guilty until proved otherwise”

        by nedzanfjnut ·

        In reply to Why is everyone so distrusting?

        I agree. It’s a sad world we live in if you can’t resign without being hung. I don’t know all the circumstances, but outside of the commercial world we take a completely different viewpoint. Maybe we are just nicer people and don’t have to have a high level of mistrust – after all, in the education sector we are meant to be role models and what is there to steal of any commercial value? Am I being naive? I’d hate to work in a situation where integrity and trust are not part of being an employee

        • #2597424

          I’m with you

          by tuvals ·

          In reply to Is the assumption “guilty until proved otherwise”

          It appears the majority of folks assume the worse per the employee who is resigning. Is it due to retirement, family illness, personal illness, new job, etc. If it were I and I was given the third degree by management I would politely hand in my employee id and any corporate owned items and say adios. You treat me with respect as a human being and I will do the same. If you attempt to drag me through the mud for no reason I say see ya later. This whole question is not inclusive of the circumstances and thus we have a multitude of assumptions being made.

    • #2586209

      sad sad view

      by jcdshs ·

      In reply to When a network administrator puts in his 2-week notice…

      You have posed an incredibly ill-defined scenario with absolutely no background info, thrown a little bait into the water with your accompanying prompts and then sat back to wait for the sharks to circle – and boy did they.
      Was the network admin ill – maybe just been given 2 months to live by his cancer speciallist? Was his partner suddenly diagnosed with a terminal illness? Did he win lotto last week? Did a filthy rich uncle just die?
      How long has this person worked for your company? Are they a trusted employee? Have they been called up for active service in the armed forces?
      There are SO MANY reasons why this person may have put in 2 weeks notice – remember, they are not being fired! They are asking to leave.
      First thing is to get someone to sit down with them and find out exactly why they are giving notice. Then you can start taking any appropriate responses you feel necessary.
      Maybe the guy did win lotto and he is going to buy out YOUR company. Who will be the first one out the door then if you jump in and crucify the guy 😉

      • #2586169

        Intuitive Response

        by techytype ·

        In reply to sad sad view

        Yours is the first reply to this thread that caused me to want to reply. Most of this thread is valid, from a BUSINESS perspective. People seem to forget that we should be working to live, not living to work. Yours has hit the point with accuracy and class. Thank you.

        • #2586584

          alright, I’ll chime in too

          by neon samurai ·

          In reply to Intuitive Response

          I’ve been reading the discussion and with each new post, can’t help thinking; if the original poster is reading TR, what are the chances that the business network admin is reading TR?

          Yeah, most are replying from the Business and IS point fo view. A topic like this get’s the security geeks all riled up real good. I don’t think it was ever mentioned if this is an amicable departure. Knowing the business relationship and reasons for leaving probably completely changes the responses given.

        • #2597388

          thank you

          by jcdshs ·

          In reply to Intuitive Response

          for restoring my faith in some of my fellow human beings.
          I just found it so very sad that so many people wanted to hang this hypothetical manager based on so little evidence (actaully on no evidence whatsoever).
          I hope I never find myself working for any of those guys.

      • #2598593

        so?

        by dr dij ·

        In reply to sad sad view

        lots of good answers have covered all the possibility and suggested reasonable answers and when to trust the people.

        We got a good discussion out of this. Did you even read all the post?

        • #2597391

          read the post?

          by jcdshs ·

          In reply to so?

          of course i read the posts – that’s why i chose to reply – because it was such a bad post originally (so open ended) and SO MANY of the replies wanted to hang the network admin based on no evidence whatsoever.
          whatever happened to trust and loyalty?
          and common sense for that matter?

    • #2585084

      Too Synical

      by mkameta ·

      In reply to When a network administrator puts in his 2-week notice…

      The damage if any to the Business would have taken place a long time before the 2 weeks notice would have been submitted. If a business really wanted to protect themselves no matter how large or small they are, then they should implement little things like, change controls, SOX auditing, IT Management processes and procedures then audit these on a scheduled basis. :-).

      • #2598568

        Controls?

        by angry_white_male ·

        In reply to Too Synical

        Problem is – we have no controls here… been fighting to get an ISO on board to handle these things full-time. I have my policies – but no means to enforce them, no time to document them. So I use best practices to cover my ass. I’ve gotten burned for doing so – but in the end, I know what I did was right and if it pissed a few people off who expected to get what they wanted without having to jump through the neccessary hoops to get it – well, if that makes me a prick, then I did my job.

        So, I have to take the worst-case scenario approach and do what I can… unfortunately I have a boss who knows little about IT security – he’s too busy kissing up to his bosses to give it any real thought.

        This place is a mess – I’m looking to move on myself… in the meantime, I’m just doing what’s right.

    • #2585079

      I have been in the same situation

      by seanpsullivan ·

      In reply to When a network administrator puts in his 2-week notice…

      I was given notice and was given the opportunity to stay for a whole month. Now I am blown away by this action however, my ethics and values came out on top. They see I will not do anything to damage or hinder the business.

      • #2597564

        It’s not worth destroying one’s career over vengeance

        by big ole jack ·

        In reply to I have been in the same situation

        Hypothetically speaking, if giving 2 weeks notice, I’d personally prefer they locked me out so as to indemnify myself from anything that should happen within those 2 final weeks I am there. If they were to try to blame me, my defense would be that they locked me out and it’s not possible for me to have done anything to them. Also, it takes a real sleazeball of a company to assume or accuse a terminated employee of sabotage without substantial proof to backup their accusations.

        • #2597537

          Productive

          by fixit ·

          In reply to It’s not worth destroying one’s career over vengeance

          If I was putting in my two weeks notice, it would be to tell them to let me finish what I am doing and not add more. Those two weeks would have a purpose. The idea that I would damage what I have been pouring myself into for years is repugnant to me. Some people just dont have any work ethic I guess.

          My point in most of my posts in this thread is that a dedicated admin is not going to give notice without reason. If he is not dedicated he should not have the job.

        • #2597337

          Somebody else’s, sure, but not one’s own!

          by absolutely ·

          In reply to It’s not worth destroying one’s career over vengeance

          [i]Hypothetically speaking, if giving 2 weeks notice, I’d personally prefer they locked me out so as to indemnify myself from anything that should happen within those 2 final weeks I am there.[/i]

          I know what you mean; shortly after one leaves, one’s enemies have far more options to sabotage one’s recent work.

    • #2585070

      What, me worry?

      by alxcsby ·

      In reply to When a network administrator puts in his 2-week notice…

      You have to understand that if he’s planning on damaging your network, he’s probably already done it. If he wanted any of your “incriminating” files, he’s got them. Most netadmins are generally pretty laid back and friendly. If he’s leaving with bad blood–over a dispute, etc.–there might be something worth worrying about.
      A. You trusted him enough to hire him.
      B. Any damage has already been done.
      C. We’re not likely to be that spiteful.
      D. Removing his privileges is silly, he’ll just bypass it.
      E. Disabling his access is silly, again, he’ll bypass it.
      Just let him be and be thankful you got two weeks. After all, the new netadmin is going to need something to keep him busy.

      • #2585065

        nailed it!

        by locrian_lyric ·

        In reply to What, me worry?

        Not much to add to that….

        A admim has your company’s jewels in a vice at all times.

        never give him an excuse to squeeze.

      • #2598527

        Right on!

        by fixit ·

        In reply to What, me worry?

        You just hit the nail on the head.

      • #2598585

        I don’t think so, you dented the wood or hit your thumb with your hammer

        by dr dij ·

        In reply to What, me worry?

        A. Ok that’s true
        B. possibly, if data theft but deletions and locking out of systems by not supplying passwords and procedures occur when he leaves.
        C. professionals aren’t spiteful but reading the news and examples I gave in previous posts show there are plenty of ‘non-professionals’ in position to cause your dept grief. There is little that can be done legally and even if you do the damage is already done. What good is winning a lawsuite against former employee who destroys your system when you’re out of biz (the NJ company this happened)
        D. removing privileges. if you feel the need then there are indicators the person isn’t a professional. This is simply protecting your company. If he ‘by accident’ deletes or destroys stuff with his valid password I don’t think you’d have much recourse legally. If he ‘breaks in’ by bypassing or using another password then you can show he was guilty of hacking / breaking in.
        E. again, if you DO trust the person you don’t disable their accounts. Again, if they bypass and hack in then you have an illegal activity. If they really needed it to do their job, then either someone shadowing them does it with their account, the procedure doesn’t get done, meaning your company hasn’t found replacement or shadow,..
        if there is someone competent to disable the password then more likely there is someone to take over the tasks. if not and the password stays active because the person leaving is in charge of passwords, such as small shops is not ideal either. Still the company’s fault for not hiring temp consultant, etc or having backup for the person.

        • #2598474

          Simplified

          by fixit ·

          In reply to I don’t think so, you dented the wood or hit your thumb with your hammer

          Ok, I built the companies network from the ground up. There is only one other person who knows even close to enough about it to start to stop me from logging on. How are you going to stop me from bringing your company to a stop if you treat me poorly? Why would you be stupid enough to alienate me in the first place. I am not a bad employee and I would gladly help a new comer fill my shoes if I was planning to leave. You are assuming that you are dealing with unprofessional people just because they have a reason to move on. Ever thought of just saying ‘hey thanks for all the great years, come by and see us some time’.

        • #2597476

          If you would bring their network to its knees

          by dr dij ·

          In reply to Simplified

          then you ARE a bad employee! Regardless of ‘alienation’ or ‘alien nation’ or whatever.

          If you don’t like a company leave but don’t destroy their network.

          And hearing that ‘what will stop me’ makes you sound totally unprofessional.

          Unless you take that back and it is a ‘hypothetical someone’ and you would not destroy their net regardless of what they did.

        • #2597467

          point is COULD, not WOULD.

          by locrian_lyric ·

          In reply to If you would bring their network to its knees

          There are people, like myself who would NEVER do something like that, no matter what provocation they received.

          There are people who will do damage no matter how kindly you treat them.

          Then, there are the folks in between.

          The first group you don’t have to worry about, the second group you should never have hired and the third group you don’t want to give an excuse to.

          BE PROFESSIONAL. It costs nothing.

        • #2597451

          Yep

          by fixit ·

          In reply to point is COULD, not WOULD.

          I dont think I could get to a point where I would damage their network, but why would they want to try to get me there. I am working for a great company that wouldn’t something slimy like that( at least I like to think that ).
          I grew up being a net geek, most of my friends are in the field in one capacity or another, and some of them are VERY capable of doing harm if some one puts the proverbial stick in their eye. Why would you want to do that? Just treat people well and you will reap the rewards of doing so.

    • #2583864

      Try this…

      by jamie ·

      In reply to When a network administrator puts in his 2-week notice…

      1. Assume he is a human being.
      2. Ask him if he is unhappy with his current job, possibly do this through an exit interview.
      3. Ask him to guide you through all of the backup and restore procedures.
      4. Ask him if he has any work related material at home, if he has could he please return it.
      5. Ask him if he could train someone up as a temporary replacement.

      This way he still feels respected and is likely to respect your company.
      After he has left the building change the administrator passwords.

      Jamie

    • #2583856

      Edited by moderator

      by 2shane ·

      In reply to When a network administrator puts in his 2-week notice…

      Edited

      Message was edited by: beth.blakely@…

      • #2598048

        Ours gave his 2 weeks

        by breadtrk ·

        In reply to Edited by moderator

        and them came in for another 3 weeks after working his new job. First to keep us going until his replacement could start and then to help get the new guy up to speed. He even did a full weekend during this.

        Don’t assume the worst. Go with your gut and the guys job history. Like someone else has said, if he wanted to cause havoc, it would already be done.

    • #2583842

      BE FAIR IN YOUR DEALINGS

      by femijumo ·

      In reply to When a network administrator puts in his 2-week notice…

      once he has been loyal and dedicated to you but due to career development or increase in pay , he should not pose any threat to you, be fair to him because a person that look irresponsible today might be a key to the success of the same company tommorow.

    • #2583835

      No need to worry

      by shadow1 ·

      In reply to When a network administrator puts in his 2-week notice…

      I am currently at that point in time. I have interviewed for a new position but would not even consider doing anything inappropriate in my time left. Word does get around.

    • #2583830

      It happened to me

      by andrew ·

      In reply to When a network administrator puts in his 2-week notice…

      I worked for several years in a place with full admin privileges from day 1 (which I thought was a little strange). They showed me the door three days before the Christmas break after an ‘unsuccessful’ re-application process that they said was a ‘normal’ practice. The network admin told me to go quietly but I fought the decision and won my job back via an independent arbitrator. When I was unknown (ie: Day 1) I had full network privileges – yet only ‘touched’ the things I was supposed to touch. When I returned I was so restricted on the network as to be virtually redundant. I could only help users improve their skills with apps, couldn’t restart print spoolers, move and or recover lost files, create accounts, etc. They even changed the BIOS password on 350 machines to keep me out. Nine months after my return the Network Admin was dragged kicking and screaming by his superiors to the server room and made me an admin; although (unbeknown to the superiors) with heavily restricted privileges – do I keep complaining to the superiors? Now, I would not trust the Network Admin to give me the time. (Turns out it was he who shafted me through the re-application process) His ruthless attitude is the reason for the draconian action companies take against previously trustworthy employees. Yet I am a trusting person so do I be savvy or naive next time?
      The answer for any company is to have fully documented systems so that every employee is redundant if a bus should hit them. I spent three years documenting the network procedures and knowledge for the organisation – but he saw that as a threat not a service. In my opinion, that document remains their salvation should they one-day lose their #1 Network Admin. However, it is now a year out of date as I wasn’t allowed access to it when I returned.

      • #2583638

        The classic “Information hoarding paranoic” who shares nothing example

        by big ole jack ·

        In reply to It happened to me

        There’s a moron like that in every company who uses the pathetic excuse of “job security” to justify such actions.

        It’s more like “job insecurity” that leads to such improper conduct.

        • #2597566

          Management is getting wise to the type though…

          by locrian_lyric ·

          In reply to The classic “Information hoarding paranoic” who shares nothing example

          Information hoarders are RAPIDLY becomming an endangered species, thank G_D!

          They also get no respect professionally.

        • #2597559

          question: if management doesn’t know, un-“shared” info …

          by absolutely ·

          In reply to Management is getting wise to the type though…

          [b]Who[/b] is entitled to no professional respect? I hear a lot of whining around here from my management about certain departments not [b]sharing[/b] “tribal knowledge”, and in addition to being a presumptuous attitude to hold from one department to a separate department, it’s disingenuous to claim from one side of the mouth the competence to manage, and out of the other a lack of information being “shared” with you about what you presume to [b]manage[/b].

        • #2597487

          there’s unshared info, and then there is HOARDING.

          by locrian_lyric ·

          In reply to question: if management doesn’t know, un-“shared” info …

          You know the type…

          The idiot who wants to make sure that no system can run unless he’s present, designs his code to be unreadable to all but himself, documents NOTHING and schemes against others.

          THAT is the type that deserves no professional respect at all.

        • #2597479

          And how do you classify managers who don’t involve their subordinates

          by big ole jack ·

          In reply to there’s unshared info, and then there is HOARDING.

          in key meetings, then expect the subordinates to “think outside the box” when they lack the overall picture of what’s going on behind the scenes? That’s one of the reasons I went into business for myself. I got fed up with that corporate bullsh*t of being shut out of important meetings because the managers thought that it was no concern to me. I sure don’t run my business that way and always involve those who I know need to be involved to get their jobs done.

        • #2597472

          Idiots

          by locrian_lyric ·

          In reply to And how do you classify managers who don’t involve their subordinates

          I’ve worked with the type, and ran from them.

          and those managers quickly get the rep of not one to work for.

    • #2583810

      Get a life!!!

      by markck ·

      In reply to When a network administrator puts in his 2-week notice…

      hey AWM….get a hobby, breed elephants or something. in short, GET A LIFE!!!! can’t people move on to other jobs??!!?? why is coporate america so dead set on making working peoples lives so miserable??
      ever think he’s moving on cuz he’s sick and tired of the daily garbage YOU force feed him? or cuz YOU denied him a raise? or YOU didn’t approve a much needed budget?? it’s time to look in the mirror AWM and see your own faults. by the way, let the guy go in peace!

      • #2583664

        Or as they say…”what comes around goes around”

        by big ole jack ·

        In reply to Get a life!!!

        Don’t burn bridges because the guy/gal you fire or treat like dog poo today may be your boss someday. If you are ever being interviewed by him/her, do you think you’ll get the job? People remember when others do wrong upon them.

    • #2583802

      It goes both ways

      by cblackford ·

      In reply to When a network administrator puts in his 2-week notice…

      Being management, an enterprise admin as well as having full network access, the first thing I did was insist all my access be removed including physical access to secure facilities. This was done to make sure I was protected from the company. Professionally, they had no reason or grounds to expect I would not anything. I’m a professional. I just wanted to make sure I could clearly demonstrate any subsequent events could not be blamed on me. It is real easy to point the finger at some one who is no longer there. Any employee who leaves or whose position is eliminated should insist all privileged access be removed immediately. The departing team member can work with other staff team members to walk them through any changes (always make sure there are at least 2 other people involved to prevent creditable denial and don?t touch the keyboard yourself). It is as much as protecting yourself as protecting the company.

    • #2583773

      How come I never get ‘removed from service’?

      by james.koopman ·

      In reply to When a network administrator puts in his 2-week notice…

      Funny how the untrustworthy admins get ‘bought-off’ and get 2-4 weeks paid time, when the really good and trustworthy admins (a.k.a. – ME!) have to work until the very last second! As past co-workers have said, it speaks very good of my character and work ethic. On the other hand, if I had of posed a ‘threat’, I’d have received paid time-off!
      Let’s face it, anyone who says that you should immediately remove him/her from service has hired the wrong person! Your network admin practically OWNS the company, and typically has access to virtually everything. If you can’t be trusted on the way out, you couldn’t be trusted before, and shouldn’t have the job!

    • #2583767

      do the right thing

      by chunter42 ·

      In reply to When a network administrator puts in his 2-week notice…

      I’ve implemented several systems throughout my years in data processing and I.T. I always taught my employers what I’m going to tell you. Discretion was right. Pay the man/woman what they have coming in their last two weeks…including any vacation time. But escort them to the door that day with all of their personal belongings, and thank them for all they have done for the company while employed there. Then go make sure that the former employee doesn’t have any access to your system from the outside either.

    • #2583754

      You People Surprise Me

      by b.lantz ·

      In reply to When a network administrator puts in his 2-week notice…

      Working in IT we all realize the importance of security, and all workplaces have some sort of policy regarding what happens when someone leaves employment. Yet I’m getting the impression that a lot of IT people feel these same rules they impose upon others should not be imposed upon themselves.

      First, I suppose I’m surprise some places still give notice. Normally when people are let go, regardless of position they must leave immediately. This is really best for everyone.

      If an employee gives notice I see the remaining people doing the best possible job to limit exposure and this will include restricted access to company resources.

      Keep in mind:

      – Most crimes are “crimes of opportunity”. Don’t give people the opportunity to cause mischief.

      – You are responsible for the security of company IT resources. Your SysAdmin buddy just gave notice and has already “checked-out”. It would be irresponsible of you to allow him the opportunity to cause mischief.

      – Your company most likely has a policy that handles account restrictions when an employee serves/is served notice. Follow that policy.

    • #2583729

      Immediately remove him from service

      by khozat ·

      In reply to When a network administrator puts in his 2-week notice…

      Removing access won’t work cause if He is a good administrator he has a second account just in case the main one somehow doesn’t work. The best bet is to look at all the Admin accounts on your systems & change their passwords.

    • #2583713

      If you trust and could use him, let him stay…

      by fast!!! ·

      In reply to When a network administrator puts in his 2-week notice…

      My last company really screwed themselves on this! When I put in my 2-week notice, HR called me in and told me that I would have to leave immediately because I was going to work for a competitor. Appearently one of the companies under the “enterprises” company I was going to manufactured a similar product. Not that I cared though because I am an IT person that doesn’t have an understanding of these products. Anyway because I could not properly train my replacement a few months later the former employer lost their mail server and had no backups (over 200 mail boxes gone). Something as simple as understanding backups would have saved them big time!

      In my opinion, putting in a 2-week notice is like telling an employer that “here’s your chance to train someone on the important aspects of this job”. If you get a 1-day notice, then chances are you can’t trust that person…

      • #2597498

        Or, they can get a replacement on your last day and squeeze you

        by big ole jack ·

        In reply to If you trust and could use him, let him stay…

        by expecting that you to transfer years of knowledge in the course of a few hours while you have 2 hours left before you walk out of the door. I’ve seen such stupidity as well throughout my career and always wondered what the point was in giving them 2 weeks notice if they procrastinated to get a replacement and would try to cram all that stuff in on the last day I was there. Sorry, but I gave them ample notice and if they chose to slack off and not take it seriously enough, it’s their problem if they have a crappy transition because I did my part as a professional.

      • #2598239

        BINGO

        by fixit ·

        In reply to If you trust and could use him, let him stay…

        Yep, every network is different, and it is good to get a chance to be instructed rather than have to try to discover.

    • #2583709

      Professionalism

      by jefflevin ·

      In reply to When a network administrator puts in his 2-week notice…

      Okay, the first question I must ask is what happened to Professionalism for both the person who’s leaving, his/her direct supervisor and the organization/management?

      I recently faced this same situation where I gave my two weeks notice and then took comp time for those two week. I was still on the payroll, but this time was time I would not get paid for when I left but yet had worked hard to accumulate.

      Anyways, I turned in my two weeks notice, and was promptly treated like the enemy because it was unexpected. I ran my own IT shop, hence I was truly the only person who knew access/admin codes etc to all the appropriate systems. Before I turned in my two weeks I prepared all of the information -login’s, passwords, domains etc, that they would need to give to someone else. They did not act on this information until after I left the payroll. I still get calls 6 months later about things and I willingly give them the information because I cared about the organization and its mission. I could care less what happens to the management (well personally I wish they do a major revamp). When I walked away I felt that I had done everything reasonable with my power to prepare them, I gave them 2 weeks notice (industry standard), I prepped the critical info, and I made myself available via phone and email to provide support and information. I did not consider it my responsibility to hold their hands to ensure a smooth transition, but I did take out all the obstacles even though the attitude towards myself was hostile.

      My career in the military taught me several things, several of the most important are:

      1. Always be Professional.
      2. Never piss off the finance clerk.
      3. Never piss off the supply clerk.
      4. Never piss off the tech guy.
      5. Life is always unfair

      Numbers 1 and 5 sort of go hand in hand. Life is always unfair, regardless of if you are the one leaving an organization or the one representing the organization, but always and I mean ALWAYS handle yourself in a Professional manner.

      The other lessons should be self explanatory, the finance clerk handles your pay, the supply clerk gets you things, and the IT person makes it all run.

      Back to the situation at hand though. It is a failing of Management if there is not a plan in place to transfer critical information from an employee in a mission critical position to someone else. It’s called cross training and good business sense.

      It is always a failure of Management not to keep tabs on how employees are feeling about their employment. It’s called employee evaluations and no one is above them regardless of their position. It not only ensures you don’t get waylaid by a disgruntled employee, but it always helps you to retain quality employees from getting lured away for more money, responsibility etc. Many of the posts so far speak of the reasons why an employee leaves and all of them are correct, but all of them also can but headed off (or at least mitigated) with good management skills.

      If you work in an environment where the management is concerned about you doing nasty little things to the systems before you leave, the it was never a good situation to begin with. As an IT person who is entrusted with that kind of responbility, there has to be a high level of trust, not just on a day to day basis, but in the critical situations when it matters (i.e. like when you leave). That trust is fostered on both ends yours and management, but again life isn’t fair and it doesn’t always work that way.

      In comes Professionalism on your part, you should walk away from a job knowing you’ve done everything reasonable to ensure they have every bit of information that they will need to keep the organization operational from an IT stand point. Even if you get screwed in the process professionalism and personal integrity demands that you can look back and say I did everything possible and my hands are clean. Unfortunately we live in a world that rewards “revenge” with a cultlike status. If you wanted revenge, then become a hacker and screw eveyone over.

      On the flip side with the organization, there should be a level of loyalty and professionism as well. If a person has worked for the organization for a period of time, if they wanted to screw you over, they would have had ample time to do it and walk away. Give the person some credit and respect, I’m not saying leave everything carte blache, but do it respectfully and in a businesslike manner. Any professional IT person will tell you they understand the necessity of changing access and rights, it only makes sense.

      How both the company and employee handle the departure will speak volumes for both parties. For the individual, don’t go spouting off about how bad the parting was or how bad the work environment was. That brings us back to personal integrity and professionalism. Now if I know someone is apply for a position in the company, I may give them some things to be aware of. However I’m not going to badmouth specific people in a way that makes it slanderous.

      For the organization that bad mouths especially an IT person, it could be a career killer for them in that town. It’s simple, techies talk to techies and management talk to management, and let’s face it management makes the hiring/firing decisions. The unfortunate thing is that people fear what they don’t understand, and 90% of management doesn’t understand IT or the people who choose it as a profession. It’s a murky black hole that takes lots of money, poses a HUGE security risk for them and it puts them way out of their league in understanding it. Management will always have a wary view of IT, unfounded as it may be.

      We as IT professionals cannot afford to shoot ourselves in the foot on the way out, unless you decide to leave and start your own IT business and hopefully you will not make the same mistakes you feel were made against you.

      Bottom line, don’t do anything to anyone you couldn’t tell your mother about, whether you’re management or the employee.

      • #2583675

        Professionalism example

        by wompus ·

        In reply to Professionalism

        I agree entirely, it all comes down to professionalism. And here is the above stated example:

        A few years ago I worked for a government agency as a contractor. I worked with two full time employees and several other contractors. We were doing a major networking upgrade over their entire system. We were originally only hired to pull cable but they soon found that all of their contractors had other talents. We started getting into all the major systems from servers and switches/routers to the individual PC?s.

        There was one contractor that worked with us that was always talking about putting major viruses into their system if we were ever let go. Well, shortly before we finished the upgrades they informed us that 2 out of the four contractors would have to be let go. I ended up being myself (being the newest hire) and the gentleman that was always talking about the viruses. Now I knew the virus guy and he easily could have infected the entire place with nasty viruses, but I also knew him well enough to know that this was his version of a joke.

        The agency gave us a full months notice instead of the usual ?Thank you but get out.? I thought that was very professional on their part and intended to return the gesture. They immediately cut off the other guy?s access but left mine in place. This turned out to be fortuitous because 2 days after we received notice me and the virus guy were the first two in the office one morning and everyone else seemed to be running late. It turns out that this morning the NAS holding ALL of their data decided it didn?t want to work anymore. So we went into the server room and got the back-up NAS up and running. And by the time the rest of the IT staff came in everything was fine.

        So if they had cut off my access then they would have been hosed. Like I said it all comes down to professionalism.

        The IT world is not very big (especially in this area of the world) and you always need to be aware of that. The manager for the agency helped me get my current position and that agency is now one of my biggest customers. Everything comes back around so professionalism is the key.

    • #2583654

      Leaving and admin security

      by cvservice ·

      In reply to When a network administrator puts in his 2-week notice…

      I just gave my 2 weeks notice. Everything is business as usual. Sure, if I was ‘one of those’ types, I could. But really, if you have been with a company for a long while and the boss really knows you, he would know if you are the type of person that would do something stupid like that. And as has been mentioned, the basis of your leaving too. If you are being laid off, the employer has the option of buying you out. You leave immediately and they give 2 weeks pay. If there was any likelyhood of sabotage, that would be the time to reset all passwords.
      If you choose to leave for greener pastures and have been asked to occasionally be a consultant, then it’s likely that you are not a security problem type.

    • #2583647

      Just happened here

      by cometsr ·

      In reply to When a network administrator puts in his 2-week notice…

      My alternate network person recently turned in notice to try his hand at being the IT director at a nearby hospital. After all, growth is growth.
      We trusted him to be the person he always had been. We not only did not change his access, we changed nothing except his sign in for Novell files and OS400. With his control, he could have done anything.
      We believe that it has to be left up to the local control, since who best, knows the personal drives of the individual.

    • #2597558

      Let me ask you this…

      by dr_zinj ·

      In reply to When a network administrator puts in his 2-week notice…

      – Has this person ever given you reason to distrust his or her professionalism?
      – Have you done anything to recently upset this person?
      – Is this person taking another job in IT elsewhere?
      – How long have you known they were even thinking of leaving?
      – Do you have operating procedures in hard copy on what this person does?
      – Do you have a list of passwords to all your systems in secure file?
      – Do you have an alternate for this position in the company who can immediately take over the duties and responsibilies?
      – If this person had been killed in an accident, would your business still have been able to function?
      – If you don’t have an alternate, why the heck don’t you?
      – How critical to your business are your computer systems?

      If you have an alternate already who can slip right into the place, then it’s best to remove the leaving person’s accesses and retain them for the duration of their two weeks to ensure complete and proper transfer of responsibilities to his or her alternate.

      If you don’t have an alternate for that person, then you’d better hope they’re a nice person because otherwise you’re up shit creek without a paddle! If you have a business that requires computers and you needed an administrator for them; then odds are if you lose your systems, you lose your business. Which is a rather expensive lesson in disaster preparedness.

    • #2597496

      Choice 2, I guess

      by freebird54 ·

      In reply to When a network administrator puts in his 2-week notice…

      If he is the one giving notice, then *IF* (and unlikely it is) he had any ‘bad’ plans – they will already be in place. Keeping him there to make sure that someone knows *ALL* the passwords, and *ALL* the ‘fixes’ and *ALL* the weird things that shouldn’t work and do on the system. It is most valuable to a company to make sure of all these things.

      In the only case of trouble I have heard of, the company actually had a bonus event from keeping him on – his little ‘bomb’ went off while he was still there! However, I think the downside scenario is pretty much restricted to movies – no-one wants to kill their references for down the road, apart from whatever remains of honour and professionalism exist in the world.

    • #2597491

      This illustrates a great irony in the computer age.

      by doug ·

      In reply to When a network administrator puts in his 2-week notice…

      It used to be that only senor management had access to the most important company documents.

      The odd thing in the computer age is that IT people are given total access thru their administration passwords to information that used to be tightly locked up.

      No one seems to understand what is happening. I know one governemnt office that has give root access to my 21 year old nephew.

      Well, that is until the network administrator is fired or leaves. Then they panic! 🙂

    • #2596707

      Let them go home and pay throughout notice

      by it cowgirl ·

      In reply to When a network administrator puts in his 2-week notice…

      I think most every IT person who has access to sensitive data and the network as a whole, expects to be let go the same day they give their and be paid for the notice time.

      I agree that a job is never a reason to ruin your career or be prosecuted in order to try to steal or lock the company out of their systems or delete information! It’s also illegal. Therefore as an IT professional I would fully expect that managers would revoke my passwords and send me home. That is truly the only safe recourse! I would love to work out my notice, say goodbyes, and help the company replace me. However the bottom line is that the company’s primary duty is to protect their network, servers, and data.

      Let’s face the facts that very few IT persons decide on the spot to give their 2 week notice. They probably had this planned for some time. I bet most usually know several weeks or a month before. If they planned to take information, they probably already took it, unless the company implements and follows proper security guidelines! So sending them home immediately does not save the company’s information if security is not already in place.

      However, the company is still open to a breach by leaving their IT person who has full access to their systems. The only safe way is to protect the company’s IT assets, and send them home with pay.

    • #2599357

      Ask why he/she is leaving.

      by dr. john ·

      In reply to When a network administrator puts in his 2-week notice…

      Put simply, the admin has had ample opportunity to do any damage he/she plans/planned to do long before turning in his/her notice.

      The best thing to do is find out why the person is leaving, and, if he/she is a valued employee, see if there’s something that can be done to correct the deficit, if there is one. Then, spend a little time going over any current projects, where they are in the process(es), and whether they expect to reach completion before their final day.

      People treated with dignity and respect, behave accordingly.

    • #2617657

      from a different direction

      by popnowlin ·

      In reply to When a network administrator puts in his 2-week notice…

      What if you’re asked to replace an administrator who was fired with no notice. You can’t even call them for help. It’s been over six months and we still can’t find some of the passwords and have more than one server that nobody is sure how to administer. We have one network appliance that hasn’t been rebooted since March of 2004. I will have my resume ready before I boot that one.

      The bottom line is hire people you can trust and maintain a good working relationship. I know that’s not always possible but it will sure save you grief in the long run.

    • #2467864

      Yeah…. That sounds like it…

      by 2shane ·

      In reply to When a network administrator puts in his 2-week notice…

      10 great things about him and his work.. No. Not even ONE.

      10 Bad things about him and his work… No. Not even one.

      10 ways to keep on riding him – to impose your crap on him, till he has actually walked out for good.

      I hate working for neurotics.

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