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Why can't geeks lie?

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by stargazerr

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No, I am not offering an answer. I am asking a question. :p

I can't lie when I am at work and a sales person asks me a question. If the developer team is not giving me a time frame on when something will be done, I just pass on the message. I dont lie. I cannot lie to a customer. Even be politically correct, like you have to be sometimes at work.

Can you?

]:)

199 replies

by jdclyde

you going to want the maps or not?

Still waiting to hear back from you.

-----------------------

And when I lie about lying, I can be very convincing! :D After all, how do you know which lie is a lie? ;\

by oz_media

In the world of business we don't 'LIE', perhaps to a geek it is considered a lie, but not in business. Deception, smoke and mirrors, covering up, whatever closes the deal or gets the job done, but it isn't considered a lie.

I don't lie to customers and I don't make excuses for others, but there are more tactful ways of handling most situations. I suppose that's why geeks are geeks and businessmen are businessmen.

Example, today a customer asked if I could get product from Kentucky, to Toronto and then Japan in X days. Logistically I can, realistically I can't. On paper it all works, but when you figure time zones, brokerage issues, and the fact that freight companies are completely clueless and incapable, it most likely won't happen.

Did I tell the customer I could? Of course not, did I tell him I coudln't? Of course not.

He still happy, I still got the order and I will guess the shipment wil be late or delayed but that's okay, it'll get there.

Did I lie? Nope, not a word. Did I sell the customer anyway? Yup, PO in hand.

businessmen and politicians...fine line, really fine line.

by daveo2000

So you are saying that the difference between what you did to your client and "lying" is in selectively choosing the definition of logistics?

The definitions that I have been familiar with are, for instance, [OED] pertaining to the [b]art[/b] of moving troops or equipment; [dictionary.com] [b]skilled[/b] in calculating; and others like that.

To me, art and skill have always indicated doing it right, not misrepresenting reality or realistic expectations.

I don't mind you not wanting to think of what you did to your client as lying, just don't expect us to view it as anything short of a very dark shade of grey.

By the way, does the PO specify delivery within the originally requested time frame?

by Member 25348569

Can I ever?

I have absolutely no problems whatsoever in spinning as tall a tale as you could ever wish for ranging from minor practical joke wind-ups to a fully fledged out-and-out whopper to save my nuts from a roasting.

Am I proud of that fact? Well of course I'm not! I'm racked with guilt for every departure - however slight - from the pure Truth.

:D

by jamesrl

And frankly I'm not cut out for it.

I don't always share all the information I know. But I don't tell falsehoods. It comes back to haunt people who do.

Now you know why my career in sales was short....

James

by stargazerr

I quit my sales job in 3 months. :D

I wasnt saying lying as in outright lying, but being politically correct or deviating from the truth until the job is done or offering excuses.

I just cannot do that. Furthest I go is that instead of giving a time frame I say, fairly soon. But I just cannot lie.

]:)

by jdclyde

And did pretty good, as long as I believed in the product.

After my faith was shaken in the product, I was toast.

by jamesrl

I was a sales person for a well known software company for 18 months, and I sold computers in a Mac Dealership for a year. I moved from there to consulting - I sold computers, set up systems, provided support, training, whatever. I was much more comfortable in the latter role.

I lost a networking sale when I stuck to the best "technical" solution instead of giving them what they wanted. I am 100% positive that they threw out token ring in favour of ethernet a few years after they made that choice.

I also tended to look longer term than most. I sold better quality systems that would be ok to grow, because few companies stand still. That worked for me as a consultant, more than a sales guy.

I tend to undercommit on projects - build in some contingency for things to go wrong or interruptions etc. When I was doing desktop publishing for a living , I would double my estimates and be dead on, because I could count on the fact the customer never gave me enough information up front, and changed their mind in the middle.

James

by oldbag

I ended up becoming the customer of my former employer. One day, I had to call into the customer support department with a question. Now I had, at one time, been second-tier support for that support team. The tech who answered the phone was obviously a newby and my question was quite advanced. Instead of just telling me that he would have to research, he attempted to give me some off-the-wall explanation that had absolutely no relation to the software I was asking about. He was attempting to get rid of me by lying, badly.

That newby ended up getting a valuable lesson is customer support by the end of the call. NEVER ATTEMPT TO SNOW THE CUSTOMER BECAUSE YOU NEVER KNOW WHO WILL END UP ON THE OTHER OF THE LINE! I don't think he lasted long. He must have gone into sales. :)

by heml0ck

a close friend and collegue used to work for a local ISP. He set up their helpdesk and designed their procedures.
Shortly after he left the company, he was visiting with a friend whom he'd sold on the ISP. They were have problems connecting (this was back when dialup was king) so my friend called said ISP.
The recepient of the support call started going the the play book, asking all of the standard questions. What he failed to do was listen when my friend said "I know the settings on this end are correct, is there something up with your servers?"
Finally, my friends patience evaporated and he started answering the tech's questions BEFORE he asked them, at which point said tech intoned "umm, I think you need to reinstall Windows."
My friend said "Really? Well befor I do that, why don't you GET OFF YOUR BUTT, STAND, TURN RIGHT, WALK THREE PACES, TURN LEFT AND ASK JIM IF THERE IS A PROBLEM WITH THE SERVER!?!?!?"
To his credit, the tech did so, and returned tt the phone shortly thereafter.
"Umm," quoth he. "jim says that yes there is a problem and they're working on it. And he also says next time you have this type of problem sir to call him directly. Umm sir? Are you THE Mike?"

by old guy

that goes for all aspects of my life. I agree with JamesRL I may not share all the information I know or I may say that I'm not prepared to answer this yet, or I'll have to get back to you on this. If one lies then they usually have to lie to cover that one or at least have to remember the lie so not to get tripped up later. A lie will come back and bite you in the butt. It's not worth it, especially it's not worth tarnishing your own integrity.

by stargazerr

I think aloud. If someone asks me why a particular thing is not working, I start thinking aloud about possible explanations and the sales person keeps interrupting me because he keeps ticking off my thoughts as not being relevant or necessary.

I have to learn to stop doing that. :D

]:)

by daveo2000

A lot of people I know love the phrase "I don't remember saying that" and treat it like that really is an answer. Worse yet, once I was accused of lying but the guy that accused me couldn't have cared less if I was lying or not. It seemed like lying was just a normal part of life for him. I have met many people like him too (except the others weren't accusing me of lying).

by old guy

the memory is one of the first things to go, like where I'm at now, sometimes it's good to be able to not remember something. :) That's also another good reason to always tell the truth--you might not remember the lie you told.

See there are some perks to getting old. :^0

by mickster269

Think about it - everything we do in the IT field is based on a simple statement: "s it 1 or 0 ? On of Off ? True or False?" We start in a Binary world, and build on that.

We know what a "true" or "correct" statement or input does to a program, and what a "false" or "incorrect" statement or input does.

So, from the very base atomic level, we understand true and false. We just apply that to a larger picture when we talk to other humans.

That, and some of us jest really can't pull of a good lie without getting caught.

by mickster269

Don't get me wrong- I can omit facts with the best of them. I can also give just enough information so that the other person might jump to the wrong conclusion.

It's just outright falsehoods that I'm not very good at.

BUT... I do play poker very, very well.

by onbliss

...a geek. But, I am one of those folks, who do not hesitate to give the bad news (read [b]truth[/b]). I want the stakeholders, managers and the technical team to be aware of the exact status of the project. No point in deceiving. It helps being a contractor.

I can be politically correct :-) I guess that is part of the personality :-)

ps:
And I always hated the spin that I find on different brochures of software vendors.

by Member 25348569

But I'll copy the guts in here:

However, if we do go (and I seriously hope we will) then we will fly into Vegas on a Monday in October (2nd or 9th) and stay there for a few nights (it's cheap in the week) and then drive slowly via the Hoover Dam to Williams for the Grand Canyon taking stops if needed over the following weekend. That route, at least, would be extremely welcome although it doesn't look too far. We'll stay in the GC area for a couple more nights and then move on. Anything from Williams to Death Valley or somewhere near would also be very welcome indeed. What we want to do is the major national parks around the Utah-Arizona-Nevada area but I guess that's a bit vague. Well go back to Vegas to fly out.

If we can stay for three weeks then we'll probably head for SF or somewhere close.

As I say, it's still a bit up in the air so don't knock yourself out, mate, but believe that it is really appreciated that you offered!

Neil :D

The paradox of Epimenides. He said "Cretans, always liars". He was a Cretan and so, if you follow the logic through, you can disappear up your own backside. He is also my hero.

by jdclyde

will have to go back and look for it in the cue.

I will get this ordered.

And no, it really is nothing that I will have to knock myself out over. A very easy process, as simple as the phone call I am about to make! It then takes about a week for them to mail me my package and then I will forward it on.

by Member 25348569

The nps.gov covers every park I've ever heard of and every one I haven't heard of! I suspect that planning a route is going to be real fun.

Thanks again!

Neil

by jc williams

Are you guys taking the train from Williams to the GC? If you do, DO NOT GO COACH! Spend the extra few bucks and go either first class or upgrade to the observation dome. The coach class coaches are noisy and even in October are HOT! Much better seating in 1st class, better continental breakfast too (including champaign).

Also my suggestion ... book a stay-over at the El Tovar (1 or 2 nights and can be arrainged with the train ride). It will give you some time to really experience the Canyon. I have been there many times (live in-state), and if you are really froggy about hiking, etc. book a cabin or dorm bunk down at Phantom and experience the canyon like only 1% of all visitors ever do. (I am in the rarified air group, and have spent many nights either camping or staying in a cabin/bunk at Phantom.) The hike down is easy (it is all down hill), but make sure that you have really good hiking boots as it *WILL* kill your toes (I gave up counting how many times I have lost the toenails on my big toes). The hike down (if you are really humping) is about 4 hours. the hike out ??? Usually take us about 7 hours. Most take 9 hours of almost constant hiking (well 1 hour off at Indian Gardens for lunch and a break).

Of course, you can mule it down and back ...

If you need (or even want) any other sage advice, just drop me a line.

by Member 25348569

I'm willing to pay 'em.

As for hiking, the trip is for my Mother's 80th birthday present (she'll be 82) so mule-trekking is probably out as well.

:D

by ontheropes

If you decide to drive back to Vegas and NOT go over the Hoover dam I?d stay off State Hwy. 95 if I was you.
95 is the truck route into Vegas. Unless it?s been upgraded within the last 4 years it?s two-lane, black-top. Hwy. 95 is a dangerous road known for fatalities. After 9/11 big-rigs aren?t allowed over the dam so truck traffic is way up. All trucks going to Vegas from the east take 95. Trucks leaving Vegas to points south and east run 95 too.

Don't need to hear that you kinked your fern when over here.

by stargazerr

I was selling teaching aid softwares to schools. And I knew about the bugs. I just couldn't avoid talking about the damned bugs. If customers didnt ask, I would go ahead and enlighten them.

Which is why I am worse when it comes to "hiding the truth" :p

]:)

by Former member

to lie effectively .

* look straight into the eye
* believe it is the truth you are speaking
* don't think of the consequences
* keep your voice - tone/pitch as it is.
* and, remember the lie for eternity ( notice : not plural )

disclaimer : not recommended for star gazzers, n secure facilities like nuclear installation, and so forth.

by Former member

to lie effectively .

* look straight into the eye
* believe it is the truth you are speaking
* don't think of the consequences
* keep your voice - tone/pitch as it is.
* and, remember the lie for eternity ( notice : not plural )

disclaimer : not recommended for star gazzers, n secure facilities like nuclear installation, and so forth.

>:)

by stargazerr

It isnt falsehoods. That's unethical. But I cant even omit facts. I tell sales people exactly why something is not working even if most of the technical jargon I say goes over their heads. :D

I know, I know. Nothing to boast about.

]:)

by daveo2000

This is probably the crux of the issue from one of the points from the thread on "Techs should be nicer to end users".

Sometimes the answer just isn't simple and you know you would be lying to make it sound like it is. Unfortunately, the person you are explaining it to might just think you are lying anyway and just covering it up in techno-babble.

by daveo2000

The statement sounds like a quick troll jibe. Is that what you are after? Otherwise, the syntax and logic errors make it look more like a bad mix of recreational drugs ;\

"hopefulcoder" kinda sounds like "geek-wannabe"

by maecuff

I was raised by a pathelogical liar. Not only can I lie, but I can spot a lie pretty easily. (Something children of pathelogical liars learn at an early age..self preservation dictates that you learn the skill).

However, even though I can lie, I don't very often. Especially at work. I'd rather tell the truth and let the chips fall where they may. On the occasion that I do bend the truth to my advantage, I don't feel guilty about it. Again, it doesn't happen often, but anyone who says they never lie..well..you know.

by Former member

a typical example

Mother : Did you attend the lectcure ?
Son : Yes
( Untold Story )
Son : For 5mins, after which i left for xyz.

Son did bend the truth, but did he break it is the question ?

by jdclyde

I can understand when telling the truth will hurt you or someone you care about, but some people tell lies that don't do ANYTHING for anyone.

If it would help my boys, I would tell you the moon has been sold to China, and would never lose a seconds sleep over it.

If telling the truth would help my ex in anyway, shape, or form, I think i would have to claim the fifth! B-)

by old guy

then yes I can lie in a heart beat. If it protects my family from harm.
Thankfully I'm not in the same position as you with your ex but I certainly can understand that! :)

by maecuff

is to spare feelings. I HATE it when people claim they are 'just being honest' when the truth is, they are being cruel. so, not only do they get to be hateful, they set themselves up as virtuous at the same time... for example, if a friend has a baby and the kid looks like a monkey, would you tell them that? No. You'd say how adorable it is, then try to give it a banana...

by daveo2000

JD, you should like this:

A while before my divorce we were having an argument and she threw a phone book down in front of me and said "Why don't you just call a lawyer right now?!?!?"

I reacted like a true geek and gave the factual data answer without thinking of the deeper potential meaning:

I replied "It's Sunday, they won't be open."

by daveo2000

I have found that on the few occasions that I have been accused of lying I get extremely defensive, moreso than most non-geek-types that I know.

Any thoughts on that angle?

by stargazerr

They accuse me more of trying to be smart :p

But yeah, if someone does accuse me I get super defensive.

]:)

by dmambo

Being very defensive usually makes the accusor even more convinced that you're lying. "The lady doth protest too much"

Of course being to nonchalant about an accusation can have the same affect.

P.S. Shakespeare geeks - no need to correct the above quote. I'm just makin' a point.

by wingedmonkey

In one instance there was a furious Doc who accused me of restarting his computer on him when I came up to service it and the resulting restart lost him several days worth of research writing. I had to remind him that I never got into his office as he had to unlock the door for me to get in and I never actually, in his full field of site, touched the computer yet. He then stated that I must have done it by remote, since, "IT guys can do that." I was more amused then upset and the same Doc has blown his credibility with the whole IT department since then. Its something we laugh about.
But then, I spent two months with a new employ that was hired for his 10 years of experience in hardware and Bachelors degree. Once cut loose he floundered and botched several jobs. His automatic response to his supervisor was to say that I had never trained him or shown him how to do what he was tasked with. After several of these occurences, I was in a subpostal behavior mode and made it a point to never be in the same room with him alone for more then a month. My saving grace was his notebook in which I had insisted he keep and fill out daily. I was able to have him open it for both our supervisors and show the notes that he had, "forgotten," he had taken when I was training him. Its now a year and half later and though I had proven that I had trained him, and he has demonstrated to the rest of the staff that he works best when only tasked with one repetative, well documented function at a time, I still have a rep for not being able to get along with the new guys.

by mjd420nova

It's not that you have the answers, but that your
opinion matters. We call it a TEAM. No one
idea gets applied unless all get to make their
own suggestions and or approval of someone elses
ideas. Large amounts of experience can be called
upon in just simple conference calls and e-mails.

by dmambo

I can obfuscate, meander around the truth, qualify answers, hedge, ramble without answering and remain silent. But lie? Nope. Just not smart enough to remember all the details needed to keep my ass covered.

Plus, it's wrong to do.

by jellimonsta

have the issue of laughing when being wrongly accused of something, only to appear guilty?

It used to happen to me all the time as a teenager and it drove my Mom nuts!! :D

by maecuff

but my ex husband and our teenaged son CANNOT tell a lie without smiling. It is sooo easy to tell when they are being less than honest.

by daveo2000

Putting aside the problem of smiling when somebody thinks I am not being honest (I think it is because I find it amusing that somebody would think that)...

When I scold my kids (single digit ages) I often have to walk away before I break up laughing.

by old guy

Unfortunately you are right about people like that. However, I don't have much time for sanctimonious people and will not listen--it's also good to be somewhat hard of hearing (it's not all selective hearing).

So far, I've been able to dance around statements like that. It's kind of like when one of the ladies around here asks how I like their new haircut. If I think it stinks I usually come back with, well, as long as you like then that's cool. Most of the time I get away with it.

by daveo2000

You don't have to say the baby or the haircut looks good!

Haven't you heard people when they see a new baby and they say "Isn't he cute?"

Don't think that is a statement of opinion! It is the sneakiest way out! :) It is still a question and the asker might really mean "Do you think he is cute? Because I certainly don't!" ;\

by dawgit

oh course that's why I'm usually the bad guy (don't ask him -He'll tell you!) I've never told people what they wanted to hear, I tell people what they need to hear. It makes me very unpopular at times, but it has served well (both for me & and others) -d

by jellimonsta

I almost always smile our flat out laugh when try to pull the wool over anyones eyes. :D

Oh well, it keeps me honest. Well, actually my wife does that!! :D

by jmgarvin

I tell it like it is. This tends to help the middle management understand the full picture while this angers those that are any higher up than that.

Remember, even if you provide a solution to the problem, it's still complaining!

by mjwx

The world needs more honest people. The liar IMO was born out of the needs of people who can?t handle the truth. Honest people don?t suffer from this affliction. The truth hurts, yes but not as much as it would if you spent your time avoiding it.

As for me, do I lie? I can stretch the truth when I have to but I don?t like lying. I only "adjust the facts" (Pretty word for lying) for those who have no interest in the truth (I generally try to avoid these people, they bring me nothing but trouble). I prefer people to be straight up with me and so I prefer to be straight up with others.

As for the question of weather geeks can lie, they can but they are the lowest form of geek (Spammers, virus makers, crackers) people who need to make up for their complete lack of skill.

I think it?s good that you are not a liar, we need more SG?s and fewer lawyers/politicians (aren?t lawyers the larval stage of pollies anyway).

by Member 25348569

I see that the lie comes from many different motives. The world - and people - are much, much more varied and complex than you seem to credit. I like to treat each person as an individual.

Yes, there are those who lie because they can't handle the truth but these usually lie to themselves. I would class most religions in this category but that's another story.

There are those who lie - and I know because I place myself in this category - because [b]others[/b] cannot handle the truth. I do believe that the old saying "where ignorance is bliss, 'tis folly to be wise" is just so true. We've all swallowed the Father christmas and Tooth Fairy stories and they are just lies! Bastards! We lie to our children.

We carry on lying to our children. We teach them a little history. When they get older we revisit the subject and expand - "well, what we told you before isn't [b]strictly[/b] true" - the real story is...(more lies) If they get to college and study history they may well get a little closer to the truth. And then again, maybe not.

The whole world is built upon lies - "cigarettes don't cause cancer" is quite an amusing one. I won't get into institutional propaganda about "the war on terrorism" or "global warming" as it's pretty obvious what point I'm making.

I could go on but I won't.

I lied. I will...

One of the most aggravating people that I ever knew was a salesman colleague - and once friend - who became a born again Christian and from that point never "lied" again. (I put lied into commas to make the point that the definition of a complex lie is personal and open to much debate).

At this point in his life he became - to an outside observer - an immensely self-satisfied and smug individual who would never hold back from "the truth" regardless of the recipients need or desire for this information. He was only saved from mutilation at my - and other - hands by the fact that he was fired.

I'm quite an empathic person so if lying will make someone feel better - and, YES, I do weigh up the long as well as the short-term consequences - I'll do it.

Edit because...I'm not going to tell you!

by daveo2000

[b]Attend[/b] has the common implecation of being there for a significant duration so as to gain the presented information. Shame on him!

Now, had he said "I got there right on time."... ;\

by Member 25348569

is OK, if not quite finished. Hamlet: Act II, Scene 2, said by Queen Gertrude. Personally, I reckon you checked it before you quoted it...

:p

by dmambo

Naw, I just pulled the quote from the back of my 9th grade memory files. Difficult to properly reconstruct it following the corruption as it was sent through the hormone filters. But the good part is the Debbie LeBlanc memories were in the same packet. hmmmmmm.

:p

by jaqui

if I can lie or not, I don't see any purpose in trying it.

Most of the time I don't even bother with tact, blunt truth works fine.

by tryppz

I lie to my "not to tech savvy" clients because I am too lazy to translate everything into lamens terms. They ask, "What did you have to do?" or "Why can't I do that?" etc... It takes too long, and they still don't understand half of what you have just explained. (even though they usually give that semi-bleak expression of comprehension, or give you an, "Oh, ok!") Also, some answers are just too much truth for these people. They'll just keep asking, "Why?" like they're 5 years old. As long as things work and they know how to do their tasks, they're happy! Anyway, leave it to the sales people to do the talking! hehe

by dmambo

Hollering at my oldest daughter because she gave her little sister a wedgie. It's not too effective. Especially when the younger one yells "It's all the way up!!" and I lose it. I think that's why the wedgie is the torture of choice in my house. The repercussions are minimal.

by jellimonsta

That one would be difficult to punish (especially with the running commentary).
Luckily we just have a 3 yr old girl right now and no siblings to torture. :D

by dmambo

Even tho I can't really punish the older one, I sympathize with the baby (10 yrs old).

I have a clear memory, through tears, of one older brother hanging me on a doorknob by my shorts, while another has me in his sights with a large rubber band in case I tried to escape.

I could go on with stories like this all day, but it's too painful to relive. Funny, but painful.

by ontheropes

I'm not a good liar at work and definitely couldn't get away with it at home. I'm sure I've taken a lot more heat from telling the truth but I'd rather be known as an honest idiot I guess.

In business negotiations for an employer I have found that it's seldom a good idea for me to tell everything I know. It's better to have a good poker face when not holding much of a hand.

by oz_media

What a self righteous and completely incorrect post!

It has nothing to do with the definition of logistics, that's something a typical geek would deduce.

When it comes to issues such as that, everyone promises they will in turn do their job on time, the REALITY is the chance of that actually happening is ridiculously low.

When you cross multiple couriers, multiple brokerage stops everyone claims they will process in a certain time frame, in this case it would be tight so if there's any delay along the line from any one company, the delivery is late.

So again, maybe this time you'll get it, on paper (and from what people promise thay can do) it will work. The chance of it all coming together is slim though, I just know that from experience.
I did NOT tell my customer it would be there on the requested date, I did express my doubts even, but I still got the PO. No it doesn't have an expected delivery date. I pretty much get blank PO's and I fill in the price.

It's called sales, not dark grey area, not lying just being a salesman.

It's like GWB, he blatantly lied about INtelligence reports from Iraq in order to build support for his war, in most people's eyes. But when you REALLY look at it, HE didn't lie as much as he simply implied as much, without actually saying anything. He made people FEEL confident in his decision even though he wasn't assured himself. bt he didn't actually lie to anyone.

by daveo2000

Please re-read your original post. You [b]said[/b] that you didn't tell the client that it wouldn't get there on time. You [b]didn't[/b] say that you told the client you doubted it would get there on time. You didn't say if the client had an understanding of the industry and would already know that it might be impossible to get it there in the time requested.

If you were trolling by leaving out relevant detail then you succeeded :) If not, then be aware of your audience and the context in which you are speaking ;\.

If you left the client with the belief that you had a reasonable doubt of it getting there on time and you made your best effort to get it in the stream so as not to be a cause of delay then you didn't lie. So there. :p

Now, as far as me acting like a typical geek, did you read the subject of the thread? :D

And let's try not to mention gwb. We'll end up with maxwell hammering more politics in this thread too... :(

by oz_media

"Please re-read your (my) original post"

[b]Did I tell the customer I could? Of course not, did I tell him I coudln't? Of course not.[/b]

the point is, I answered him withotu giving him an answer. As long as you remove his question from teh conversation you will win. In sales, the trick is to learn how to rebut objections, most of the time it is with a sgue and you don't even have to address the question itself.

So NO, I didn't tell him I could, I didn't tell him I couldn't. I just told him about freight and brkerage companies, that was enough of a segue to have him ask about something else instead. Now if the shipment doesn't arrive on time, he will know all about the logistical issues involved and will be easy to deal with, if I have to deal with him at all.

Yes I know what the title is, that's why I called you a typical geek, it wasn't meant to be an offensive slam just a realization and a GREAT difference between the two mindsets/skills. And yes, I was once a geek too, worked as a net admin fr a large company, broke out on my own and worked for several comanies then decided I wanted more money and fewer computer issues to deal with.

I still make good side cash as a graphic designer, web designer and search engine optimization pays excellent along with monthly residuals. I am also a mechanic though so I am a grease monkey/geek/artist manager/promoter....the list goes on because I tire and bore easily.

by princessgeek

I?m no paragon of virtue; it comes down to practicality and pragmatism: telling the truth quite simply takes less time and effort than lying. I?m never caught trying to remember who got told what and I never have to think up a good story in a hurry. In my experience, lies have a nasty habit of coming back to bite the teller on the butt at the most inopportune time. Plus, lying is a bad career move; liars eventually develop a reputation for being ?either stupid or a liar? and either is professional suicide.

I think that some people lie because it affords them a temporary convenience (like getting people to stop poking at a sore topic). Liars fail to realize that lies of convenience often waste more time than was initially saved because of follow-up questions and requests for clarification that invariably come later down the road.

It?s a valid point that telling the truth can cause you to loose points in the office politics stock market. If you go to work to win popularity contests, and are comfortable telling lies, perhaps you?re due for a change ? I can think of a career that?s perfect for you (but you?ll have to wait until November to find out if you?ve won your new job).

by jdclyde

"I didn't know you HAD any feelings!" - Dave Mustaine

If the truth serves no purpose other than to be hurtful, keep it to yourself. Unless it is to my EX , and then you should get it off your chest. It isn't good to keep things locked inside, dontchaknow? ;\

The classic was when I discussed the whorishlittle wench parading multiple guys in front of my boys. I pointed out my concern for the quality of guys that would be interested in her, [b] "what kind of guy will be attracted to a MIDDLE aged, unemployed, single-mother of two that lives with HER mother"?[/b]

The look on her face was golden, but as they say, "the truth hurts", and some SHOULD! X-(

B-)

by maecuff

and by the way..I DO have feelings. I'm feeling very much like leaving work and having a drink or two.

What I'm saying, is I hate it when people use honesty as a disguise for cruelty. There is a big fat line between being honest and being a d*ck. Not that I have a problem with people being a d*ck, but it should be called what it is.

My husband's grandfather passed away a year ago and at the calling hours, I heard over and over, "doesn't he look good". and I'm thinking, not so much, he looks rubbery, sunken in and dead. But I did't say it. That would have been cruel, even though it was my honest opinion..

by jdclyde

hope yours turned out as well as mine did, although to be honest I have seen very few turn out as grand as mine did!

I do hope you got the proper facial response from her...... :D

by daveo2000

You remind me of something a guy I knew once used to say:

"Blow your own horn. You can be fairly certain that nobody else will blow it for you."

by heml0ck

In a former life I wasn't a very nice person (some people say nothing has changed:-D)
Sometimes you need to tell a little white lie to smooth things over....as long as it is a little thing...
Generally, I don't bother... it is much more fun to tell it like it is!

by oz_media

You seemed to be under the impression that I wasn't in the IT field and was poking fun of geeks. I was merely trying to explain that I had been in IT and was also considered a geek myself.

When I have done so in the past, people have said "But you said you were a mechanic, or didn't you say you managed and promoted bands.?'

So to be clear, I am not a master of one trade I am a jack of all trades but master of none. Well I do have an MCNE (had to for work) and I am licenced as a mechanic but I am not solely focused on one occupation as a career, I have sevral irons in the fire and many interests to keep me from boredom.

That's a simple explanation because it has been brought up many times, I find that instead of reiterating my comments all the time, it's easier to explain up front, well, most of the time anyway.

by m_a_r_k

and unprofessional as well. If a customer (internal to the company or external) is not allowed to know some information (for proprietary reasons or any other reason), just flat out tell him/her/it that you cannot divulge the information.

On the other hand, if you were talking about "geeks" not being able to lie anywhere, anytime, I can flat out refute that opinion. I can lie with the best of them. With a straight face. Or maybe that just means that ain't a geek. That would be fine with me, by the way. I could tell someone that the polar ice cap is melting, and they'd believe me. Er.. wait a sec.. the freakin' polar ice cap IS melting. Now, am I lieing about that or not? LOL Hell, I could even tell someone that I broke my ankle in a skydiving accident when my parachute didn't open and that was the only injury that I sustained, and I guarantee that he/she/it would believe it. ;)

by Member 25348569

accident you said that you landed on your [b]head[/b] from 3,000 feet. Was that a lie? If so, it was a more plausible one than this "ankle" story!

See! You can't keep even a simple tale like that straight.

:p

by m_a_r_k

that the only time I was lying was after I hit the ground. The force of the fall (to be more accurate, the force of the sudden deceleration in speed) knocked me unconscious. :P

And you're obviously not well-versed in the art of lying, Neil. See, you can't even tell which of my stories is true or which is a lie or if both are true or if both are a lie. :D You gotta be able to quickly and seamlessly adapt the story to fit the circumstances or predicament in which you find yourself. Re: my broken ankle -- I also told people I broke my ankle when I was hit by a boat while water skiing, even though it happened in the middle of winter. Not a single person doubted my story. People were so stunned by the extraordinary and potentially catastrophic nature of the accident that they didn't even think of the unreasonableness of water skiing, or even going boating, during January. :^0

by dawgit

OUT.!. absolutely none of that here. :D Never had any, most likely never will. (if you can't skin it and eat it... ;) )

by hal 9000

Lieing is an artform taught to Managment so they can get ahead. But we lowely IT people where always ytaught to be honest and tell the [b]Truth![/b]

It's very hard to break old habits particualy when we see them as [b]Good Things like Intergery and Professionalisum.[/b] B-)

After all we are Professionals who deal in [b]The Truth[/b] and do not know how to lie sucessfully so we shouldn't try at all but leave it to the Managers who need to do this so they can [b]Brown Nose[/b] their way to the top. :p

As the good Professor said in 2010 [b]You Asked a System to Lie who's Main Function was to Deliver the Truth and it's No Wonder That It Broke. [/b]

Col ]:)