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  • #3937564

    Why those 13 are the old 13

    by john.a.wills ·

    In 1776 Great Britain, a state in Europe, had 27 American dependencies. In that year 13 of them banded to together and seceded from Great Britain’s empire to be come the United States. Why those 13?

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    • #3940539
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      What is your point ???

      by birdmantd ·

      In reply to Why those 13 are the old 13

      We learned this in elementary school as kids. You aren’t saying anything new or thought provoking…..

      • #3940536

        Why those 13?

        by john.a.wills ·

        In reply to What is your point ???

        Why not all 27? What is special about those 13? What have those 13 in common that the remaining 14 do not have?

        You say that you learned this in grade school. I did not, because I did my primary schooling outside the U.S., but I have asked several people this question who did go to grade school in the U.S. and they have no answer either. Well, some of them give such answers as the stamp tax, but as far as I know that applied to all 27, so that cannot be the crucial reason.

        • #3940534
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          You lost me there

          by birdmantd ·

          In reply to Why those 13?

          During the American Revolution there were only 13 colonies in North America that became the United States. At that time there were not 27 colonies in the US.

          Britain had colonies worldwide but they didn’t all unite at the same time. Many didn’t earn their independance from Britain for almost 200 years later.

          Sorry, but your original question didn’t make sense.

        • #3940533

          But there was no US

          by john.a.wills ·

          In reply to You lost me there

          I am asking how the US came to be defined. Great Britain had 27 American colonies. 13 of the 27 united to become the US. Why those 13?

        • #3940527
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          Re: 13 out of 27

          by kees_b ·

          In reply to But there was no US

          Can you list what those 13 were and what those 14 were?

        • #3940524
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          Great Britain……

          by birdmantd ·

          In reply to But there was no US

          Never had 27 American colonies. For instance, the Bahamas was a British colony but never part of the Americas. Britain had colonies outside of North America as well. Canada is in North America but was never part of the US.

          Google is your friend and there is plenty of information about this online. All you need to do is do a search for the information.

    • #3940512

      in reply to Kees_B

      by john.a.wills ·

      In reply to Why those 13 are the old 13

      The 13 colonies which seceded from Great Britain’s empire in 1776: Georgia, North Carolina, South Carolina, Maryland, Virginia, Pennsylvania, Delaware, New York, New Jersey, New Hampshire, Massachusetts, Rhode Island, Connecticut. I will not try to remember all the other 14, but those adjacent to the 13 were: Nova Scotia (not the same as the present Canadian province of that name), Canada (not the same as the present Dominion of Canada), Ohio and Florida; further afield were Barbados (Alexander Hamilton’s homeland), Prince Edward Island, Jamaica, etc.

      • #3940506
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        You missed my earlier point

        by birdmantd ·

        In reply to in reply to Kees_B

        The Canadian provinces were not and are not part of the US. That accounts for several of the colonies that you quoted. Bottom line is that there were only 13 colonies that became the US after the Revolutionary War was won. I don’t think the Canadian provinces in question were seeking independence from Great Britain. .

    • #3940500

      birdmantd is missing the point of the question.

      by john.a.wills ·

      In reply to Why those 13 are the old 13

      There were no Canadian provinces in 1776. Some colonies about a century later became provinces of the thitherto non-existent Dominion of Canada.

      There was no U.S. until 1776. 13 colonies formed it in that year. What did those 13 have in common, that they did not have with the other 14? What did New Hampshire have in common with Georgia but not with Nova Scotia? Georgia in common with NH but not with Florida?

      • #3940493
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        What is the point of all this?

        by Wizard57M-TR ·

        In reply to birdmantd is missing the point of the question.

        John, you started this discussion calling Great Britain a “state in Europe”…GB is more than just a state, they were a world encompassing empire. France, Spain and Netherlands (to name a few off the top of my head) also had world wide empires. Those empires all claimed parts of “the new world” as their colonies. Britain’s colonies tended to locate in what is present day “New England” (Maine, New Hampshire, New York, etc.) France claimed lands a bit further west and north for the most part, and Spain colonized primarily the south, especially what is now Florida, Central and South America. Treaties, alliances and wars passed long before the American Revolution which led to those 13 colonies banding together. Besides, there were a substantial number of “Loyalists” in those 13 colonies which did not favor breaking from Great Britain.
        Anyhow, if you are really interested, you can find this information on the internet, as this forum is not conducive to lengthy discussions and classes on world history…Yes, I mean world history, because the United States came to existence due to circumstances occurring throughout the world, not just those 13 colonies.

        • #3940484

          To get to the point…

          by john.a.wills ·

          In reply to What is the point of all this?

          look at my original post. Why those 13? This is definitive of the Republic. The power plays among the European empires may have influenced things but, if so, how? Wiz may be right about the importance of New England, but why should a movement in New England suck in Georgia but not Nova Scotia? We are expected to assume the naturalness of the 13 uniting, but of what nature is the joining?

          As adults we can after hours accept that some of the remarks made in the Declaration of Independence were dishonest or hypocritical or of real concern only to some of the colonies. What grade-school children are taught assumes the unity of the 13 before it existed. What brought that unity into existence?

          I notice that only Moderators have shown an interest in this matter; TR is a lot less active than it was 20 years ago. I have been interested for 40 years or so, and keep the question in mind when I read relevant history, but no answer has come up.

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