General discussion

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  • #2190912

    Why work where you aren’t happy?


    by charliespencer ·

    There have been several discussions lately started by people unhappy with non-technical aspects of their work environment.

    “The boss is sleeping around.”
    “The secretary preaches.”
    “The CIO ignores my advice.”
    “There’s no Pepsi in the drink machines.”

    Okay, that last one is a legitimate issue. But I wonder why so many people stay in jobs that apparently have them on an all-Maalox diet. If you’re one of these downtrodden souls, or if you’ve been in this situation, what are the reasons why you don’t look for another job?

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    • #3114431

      No jobs

      by jdmercha ·

      In reply to Why work where you aren’t happy?

      I just need a good offer and I’m gone.

      • #3114681

        Top professionnal is not enough

        by only 50yo ·

        In reply to No jobs

        Nobody is looking for such “old” people.
        They presume:
        – theses persons want too much money
        – they are tired and are sleeping on their desk
        – not team players
        and so on…
        Hey, there is some employer ready to tray a very young soul in a 50 yo body???

        • #3114543

          My best coworker is 70.

          by stepmonster ·

          In reply to Top professionnal is not enough

          My best coworker is 70 years old, and I’d hire him if he didn’t already work here. Mature, organized, never late, very thourough, and has copies of every driver, manual, cd, that you can imagine. Never underestimate the old folks.

        • #3117140

          I agree

          by colotech ·

          In reply to Top professionnal is not enough

          How true, the younger generation thinks because were older, un-coachable, set in our ways, closed minded, and the other things you mentioned we are less deserving. True we want more money, that?s what the game is about isn?t it? Besides, doesn?t our experience count for anything?

          New grads come out of college wanting it all and will stop at nothing to get it; even if it means slandering older workers and ruining their careers. I have experienced first hand where I work:

          An older worker assisted his son, a new grad, get a position with the company. Shortly thereafter, this son made frequent comments that his dad, who?s in his early 50?s and not even thinking about retirement, should retire so a younger person can take his job; a younger person because they are more open minded, yada yada yada?

          I think these negative campaign tactics employed by younger workers are a way to push older workers out of the way so they have a job. Something like entitlement they accuse us older folks of desiring.

        • #3137793

          A Bad Apple?

          by doc squidly ·

          In reply to I agree

          I think that guy you mentioned in your post is a bad example. I he’d say that kind of thing about his father, then he’s not that great of a person to begin with.

          I’m sure you as tired of old age stereotypes as I am of negative assumptions about younger people. Sure, you?re going to find a few people in most age groups that fit the stereotypes. But, in the real world you need to look beyond age.

          Just for the record I’m 27 and have worked with older people whom I consider to gurus or mentors and some that I’d like to set on fire.

        • #3135989

          i can get away with anything here

          by avid ·

          In reply to A Bad Apple?

          i don’t get paid well. i am the only employee. the owners have terrible work ethics and not nearly the ability i have. i basically run the place myself. on the other hand, i have no dress code. i have nobody looking over my shoulder. they never reprimand me. i do not have to kiss a$$ to our customers. if the customers start to get nasty, i am allowed to get nasty back. i think it would be nearly impossible to find a job like this anywhere else. they know what they are paying me and what i am worth. so, they do not want to pi$$ me off. so i stay. i do know that at some point i am going to have to leave here and find a better paying job with some benefits where i will have to more of a conformist. until then i will work here.

        • #3135602

          Always remember that this old fogey has been there too.

          by netizenx ·

          In reply to I agree

          “Old age and treachery will always overcome youth and skill.” For those who want to rock, I’ve been there, done that, and will go to hell and back to “educate” your newbie butt.

      • #3114548

        No jobs here either

        by bethr1141 ·

        In reply to No jobs

        The same situation here. If the right job offer comes, I outta here! In my personal situation, I provide the health insurance, main income, close to home, etc. It just isn’t that easy to leave.

      • #3123532

        I agree to a point

        by oldcoyote66 ·

        In reply to No jobs

        I’m almost ready to retire so I’m in the salary range where to change jobs might mean taking a huge pay cut. However if I could get promoted to another organization at a higher or equal salary I’d be gone too. I think my biggest complaint is that we’ve been relegated from professionals to “servants for knowledgeable (and I’d argue that point) users.” Most of to the point of being escape goats for their projects that usually go wrong.

    • #3114362


      by mirrormirror ·

      In reply to Why work where you aren’t happy?

      I know that I have stayed in a job where I was miserable because I thought I could change the workplace for the better.

      I was raised to think that if I worked hard, I would be recognized. At the time, I was young and thought that I could “change the world”. The more I tried to request positive changes, the more I was crud on by management. After working there until my health suffered, I finally got laid off. I thought I had done something wrong. I was also young and stupid.

      It took me years to realize that there are places that will resist change no matter how positive it is. And, there are places that it is not worth it to try to change.

      So, with maturity, my fantasy of change has gone away. Now, I just try to pick my battles more carefully and make sure that I am always backed up by irrefutable fact.

      • #3114591

        Mirror Image

        by sheeva ·

        In reply to Maturity

        I too have been idealistic in my past and have been burned by it. I remain optimistic nonetheless. Change can happen even in the most root-bound culture. But it happens torturously slow, usually with one person at a time and depending where you are in your life at the moment, it may or may not be worth the effort.

        As other posters have mentioned, it isn’t so simple to leave the devil you know for the devil you don’t know and for a myriad of reasons – age, quality of job offerings, age, quantity of job offerings, remuneration considerations, age, family, location, age, education, current level of skill sets, age, demand skills, ability to seek opportunities where none exist, and by the way did I mention age? Even thirty-somethings have been faced with the “age” issue. Often, the employers where you feel you could exercise your hard earned and learned leading edge skills, only have eyes for the recent high-school/college grad. So keep in mind, varying degrees of “ageism” is rampant in our society and appears to be the dominant factor over all the others.

        Emotional maturity along with experience no longer factor highly in the ability to seek a new position. Many job seekers have been reduced to “staying put” or following the process of “take the job no matter what”. This, along with their confidence being eroded due the corporate penchant for “off-shoring” have held many hostage in their current situations, be it employed or unemployed. Even the almighty tech giants, Microsoft, IBM, Intel, Motorola, and so forth, have followed the “glitter but” off shore. So can you blame the tech world “grunts” like us for being paranoid?

      • #3114540

        The “Golden Handcuffs”

        by seasonedsysdba ·

        In reply to Maturity

        When you have a growing family you want to spend time with, 5 weeks vacation , 13 holidays, growing stock options, outstanding benefits, HR zapping unhealthy managers, work for a business that makes peoples lives better… well it makes it tough to leave, just because the atmosphere created current corporate IT regime stinks.

      • #3116977

        fully agree

        by ou jipi je ·

        In reply to Maturity

        my few cents…

        its all the same everywhere. If you’ve seen more than the other guy you understand what I mean.

        One thing about computers and computer services is that you need to put something in on order to get something out.

        If the requirements have not been defined properly, the project _will_ go astray.

        If you know what is wrong and done your job to report it appropriately upstairs, while you are quiet about things you don’t know enough about, a lot of IT jobs are nice place to be.

        Someone “knows better”: A magic phrase “Please go ahead” makes people you are normally upset about to come clean soon. Usually, a boss will not make same mistake more then 10 times, trust me.

        You can always choose in between having hours of meaningless conversations with people who just do not know (and will never learn either) or get on with your job. You’ll get far just by doing your job. Yes, you will.

        The day you stop learning your career in _real IT business_ is over. And although it is better to be IT manager than be unemployed, you don’t want to end up that low…


      • #3137792

        Quit my job and took a summer sabbatical

        by hughnix ·

        In reply to Maturity

        Threw in the towel last May. Set a goal to look for work again in September. During my summer vacation (or sabbatical): 1)my house was refinanced and I kept a chunk of cash to live on. 2)I planted and worked a garden. Used the home grown pumkins for Halloween! 3)Learned how to make pickles 4)I read books I enjoy – even found myself at the local library. 4)Enjoyed life.

        My job search started in Sept and was hired into a superior position in October. I believe what happened is I found myself happier with life – due to the sabbatical. And also because I wasn’t “burnt out”, I became a choice candidate for several positions.

        During each of my job interviews I advised the prospective employer that “I took the summer off”. They didn’t bat an eye over that. Seems they saw some real initiative in it.

        It can be done. Remember, life is short. Enjoy your life!

        Thanks for reading the post!

        • #3118132

          Good for You..

          by chris029 ·

          In reply to Quit my job and took a summer sabbatical

          It is always hard to remember to take some time for yourself and live a little. IT is not the only thing to do on this planet. Health concerns and age do have influnce on the positions that may come to you. Take a step back and look at what you have to offer, and what may make you the happiest. Live long and prosper.

    • #3114352

      There’s any number of reasons

      by amcol ·

      In reply to Why work where you aren’t happy?

      1. No other opportunities

      2. Inertia

      3. Comfort zone (aka, better the devil you know than the devil you don’t)

      4. The positives outweigh, or at least mitigate, the negatives (nothing is ever either perfectly perfect or perfectly sucky)

      5. They pay me too much money to leave, no matter how painful it is to stay

      6. Can’t change location (another form of number 1)

      7. The possibility of another not too distant future opportunity in the same company, in a department where things will be “better”

      Need I go on?

      • #3114320

        Same here, more or less

        by jkameleon ·

        In reply to There’s any number of reasons

        1. Occasionally, there still are opportunities that look better, even for the old fart like me. I got burned a couple of times before, though, so I became a bit more cautious about such things. For example, I was offered twice as much as I was making back then, I took the job, and after a couple of moths, company went under.

        2,3,4 Exactly

        5. That plus occasional training

        6. That doesn’t make sense anyway. If they are outsourcing jobs on the other side of the globe, why bother to move a couple of 100 miles?

        7. Ummmm… I’m not so bloody sure about such things anymore. The very moment it’ll start to appear to me that company I happen to work for is beginning to sink, I’m packing ASAP.

      • #3117133

        The Cynic Speaks

        by clasota ·

        In reply to There’s any number of reasons

        Happy? Come on, this is a job. I’m not going to be happy anywhere. If I enjoyed what I was doing it would be called a hobby not a job and it would start at noon, not 6:30AM.

        This is work. It sucks. Deal with it.

        I think some people need to make an appointment with Dr. Leary (edited for content)

        “”I’m just not happy. I’m just not happy. I’m just not happy because my life didn’t turn out the way I thought it would.” Hey! Join the…club, ok!? I thought I was going to be the starting center fielder for the Boston Red Socks. Life sucks, get a…helmet, allright?! “I’m not happy. I’m not happy.” Nobody’s happy, ok!? Happiness comes in small doses folks. It’s a cigarette, or a chocolate cookie, or a five second orgasm. That’s it, ok! You cum, you eat the cookie, you smoke the butt, you go to sleep, you get up in the morning and go to…work, ok!? That is it! End of…list! “I’m just not happy.” Shut…up, allright? That’s the name of my new book, “Shut…Up, by Doctor Denis Leary. A revolutionary new form of therapy.” I’m gonna have my patients come in. “Doctor, I..” “Shut…up, next!” “I don’t feel so..” “Shut…up, next!” “He made me feel so much better about myself, you know? He just told me to shut…up and nobody had ever told me that before. I feel so much better now.”

        • #3117008

          Speak for yourself, cynic

          by amcol ·

          In reply to The Cynic Speaks

          Believe it or not there are those of us who actually enjoy what we do. Those of us who find fulfillment in contributing to society, creating economic growth, behaving professionally. Those of us who don’t think work sucks.

          By your definition, why don’t you find a way to make your hobby your job? Let me guess…you can make a lot more money at your current job. Whether you realize it or not, that’s a lifestyle choice you’ve made for yourself. You can put a dollar in your wallet or a smile on your face, but if you can’t figure out a way to do both at the same time and the smile is more important to you then you have to figure out what sacrifices you’re willing to make.

          In the meantime…the rest of us can’t wait to get up in the morning so we can get to work.

        • #3116948

          Do What You Love & Starve to Death

          by knoble ·

          In reply to Speak for yourself, cynic

          Most folks are about as happy as they make up their mind to be. This is an Abraham Lincoln quote. People make career choices…and must learn to live with these choices. If you don’t like your job, you can quit or adapt. It is a personal issue. As the American Indian saying goes, Don’t judge another unless you have walked a mile in his moccasins.

        • #3116874

          Most folks are about as happy as they make up their mind to be.

          by wayne m. ·

          In reply to Do What You Love & Starve to Death

          Everyone should read the post by knoble above. Ignore the title, because in the actual post he got it exactly right.

          Good job, knoble!

        • #3116832

          I do so wish …

          by too old for it ·

          In reply to Speak for yourself, cynic

          … your management would distill into a white paper what they are doing to keep you happy in your job, and how this can be replicated up and down the rank and file.

          Maybe they could give seminars? Speak at off-sites? It seems a lot of other IT shops have a lot to learn!!!

        • #3137686

          You’re missing the point

          by amcol ·

          In reply to I do so wish …

          It’s got nothing to do with my management, or my staff, or my company, or my industry, or my government, or my ………..

          I’m happy in my job because…I am. Because I take fulfillment in what I do, for the reasons I’ve already enumerated and for a wide variety more. It’s also because I choose to ignore the noise. I’ve got the same frustrations, career missteps, lousy bosses, lazy staffers, etc., that you and everyone else has. And I’ve been told by many I’m one of the most impatient people on Planet Earth, an accusation I dispute but that’s another story. I go home some nights wondering just what the hell I’m doing and why I’m doing it. Same as you.

          But…I view things wholistically. There are good days and bad days, and as long as the good days outweigh the bad I’m happy. I don’t let externalities invade my inner psyche. I take the long view.

          Every year, around the end of the year, I assign a monetary value to each thing that’s made me upset or unhappy at work. As long as the total value of all those things doesn’t exceed my income, I’m happy. And I re-up for another year.

          It’s all about perspective. It’s just work, it’s not real life. Work is a place you go between your life. I don’t define my identity by what I do for a living, like a lot of folks do. You can’t take this stuff too seriously or you will, in fact, not only be unhappy you’ll go completely nuts.

        • #3117005

          This sounds like Seinfeld material

          by lsmith1989 ·

          In reply to The Cynic Speaks

          hahah this is pretty funny.

        • #3137820

          root of career dissatisfaction – buy your life back

          by livin on a prayer ·

          In reply to The Cynic Speaks

          IT was my hobby and now I don’t enjoy it nearly as much anymore after I turned it into a career. When you start making money on your hobby, it becomes your career. And you know what as far as careers go, I don’t think IT is the problem at all. I think career disasisfaction in any field is deeply rooted in how business and commerce works.

          Since most careers are tied to business and therefore could not exist without business, lets look at the purpose of business. It’s pretty simple. ANY and ALL business is in the business of making money. If they’re not, chances are they won’t stay profitable and ultimately they won’t be around long. In the commerce system it’s ALL about money. When it’s all said and done and you strip away all the exterior stuff (mission statements, visions, corporate ideals and all that other crap) business exists for this sole purpose. Anyone who tells you otherwise either has enough that they don’t need to care anymore, or they’re just trying to convince you into being complacent so that they can continue to profit from your efforts. In the case of IT, we are seen as just another cost of doing business. Is it any wonder so many IT professionals are dissalusioned with their careers? I think many people got into this field because they didn’t want to deal with business politics, or because they thought technology was cool. However the very nature of IT is and will continue to be very political because it exists to solve business problems and smooth out business processes.

          These are some lessons that I have learned about business and careers:

          1). In business, you don’t get what you deserve, you get what you negotiate.
          2). Compensation is used as an indirect leveraging and people control mechanism. By paying you just enough so that you won’t quit or so that the company can retain someone in the position, the company achieves the following:
          -they minimize the risk of the employee becoming independant of a job, so this indirectly ensures loyalty to their business.
          -because the employee typically is given only enough to survive, the risk of you becoming a competitor of the business in the future is minimized
          3). 80 – 90% of small business managment operates on the principles of fear, intimidation and greed.
          4). Being successful in commerce is about leveraging your position. It’s about setting things up so money works for you. It’s about positioning yourself so that people have to work for you and in doing so you profit from their labor far more than they could ever profit while being your employee. Companies set this up by paying you just enough so that you don’t quit and nothing more. Just enough for you to meet your financial obligations so you can’t “get ahead”. Companies profit by exploiting people’s circumstances. If you don’t believe this, why do you think potential employers ask you what your marital status is, how many children you have and what your “future plans” are during an interview for a new job? They are trying to ascertain how badly you need the job by getting a feel for how financially obligated you are. They are trying to figure out how much they can get away with.
          5). In commerce, no money is made unless it is made at someone else’s expense.
          6). The number one rule of cost control is to simply not pay. If paying is unavoidable, stall as long as possible.
          7). In most small to medium sized businesses, employees are seen as a consumable and expendable commodity. As such they are seen as a recurring cost of doing business and every effort will be made to control those costs.
          8). Knowledge is power. Management fears what it doesn’t understand. This gives the one with knowledge a certain degree of leverage and negotiating power. Do not share powerful information unless it can improve your position somehow.
          9). You can pour your heart and soul into making your boss’ business profitable, but you’ll never be family. Your boss will not hesitate to toss you into the street when your function is no longer required.
          10). Complacency is a bad thing. It leads a person or organization down the road of mediocrity. Do not mistake complacency for contentment. These are altogether different. Contentment comes from deriving your identity, purpose and satisfaction from something greater than your job.
          11). Commerce is based on the rules of survival of the fittest.
          12). In commerce, people are shameless in leveraging their position to profit from exploiting someone else’s situation or need.
          13). In commerce, the best deal is the one where you get the most amount of money for putting in the least amount of work or effort.
          14). Never sell a solution that you are unprepared to live with.
          15). Never settle for a wage going into a new job that you consider to be substandard (unless of course you have no other option and have exhausted all other negotiation avenues).
          16). Negotiation is a life skill. If you can’t negotiate effectively, you won’t survive.
          17). It doesn’t matter how much money a person has when they die, they still die.
          18). Trying to find meaining in your job beyond making money is pointless, because the core reason for the existence of business is to make money.

          I don’t think people will be happy in the great majority of jobs, because they are tired of having their situation exploited. That will probably never change regardless of the business you work for or the industry you work in. It’s all the same. I don’t think a person will be truly “happy” until they buy their life back and have the freedom to do what they really want. When I talk about freedom, I mean being able to live life without having to worry about what happens in the business world. My advice to people who want to “buy their life back” is this:

          1). Control your costs as much as possible. Buy only what you really need. Run lean until you can eliminate your debts and reduce your living costs.
          2). If business is all about money, go wherever you can get the most for doing the least.
          3). Reduce your debts as quickly as possible and set up recurring revenue structures (investments, owning property and renting it out, whatever…) to replace your job’s income.
          4). View money not for what it can buy you, but for the problems it can eliminate (housing, child’s education, need for recurring revenue, etc…).
          5). Get purpose for your life and derive your identity from something other than your job (spirituality, contributing to higher ideals, etc…)

          This was not meant to be negative. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying life is all about making money. Rather, I think living a life whose only purpose is to have money and lots of things is meaningless. If you are dissatisfied with working jobs in the commerce system, then work on becoming independant of your job, so you can enjoy the things in life that really interest you.

          Peace be with you.

        • #3136403

          Filled with contradictions and untruths

          by amcol ·

          In reply to root of career dissatisfaction – buy your life back

          You don’t mean to be negative, and you end by saying “Peace be with you” but your entire presentation is one giant cynical rant.

          You make a few good points, but you miss the mark more often than you hit it.

          First of all, “ANY and ALL business is in the business of making money”…wrong. You’ve left out a couple of very key components of American economic activity, non-profit organizations and government. And don’t tell us these aren’t businesses, they most certainly are.

          Negotiation is a key skill but you’re dead wrong about that being the only way you can get what you deserve. I’ve worked for five Fortune 500 businesses in my career, and in each case there was a general feeling…not just my own, that of the overwhelming majority of my colleagues…that our employers were being quite generous with us. There was no law that said they had to pay us bonus…they did, based on annual corporate profits and even in those years business turned down just to keep up morale.

          Corporate entities are not as exploitive as you represent. No one asks your marital status at an interview…that’s illegal. And it’s possible to make money without doing so “at someone else’s expense”…you never heard of win-win negotiating? Everyone CAN walk away from the table with a smile.

          “The number one rule of cost control is to simply not pay. If paying is unavoidable, stall as long as possible”. Great advice. Might interest you to know that Dun & Bradstreet, the corporate credit reporting agency, has a score much like the FICO score on a business level, and one of the key components is average number of days a business takes to pay its bills. The longer you take, the lower your score. The lower your score, the higher your cost of borrowing. Want to modify your approach a bit?

          “Do not share powerful information unless it can improve your position somehow”. More great advice. My boss, my colleagues, my customers, my staff…in short, everyone I come in contact with…just LOVE it when I withhold information and only dole it out when it’s to my own personal benefit. This is a wonderful way to manage your career…assuming you want it to go absolutely nowhere.

          “Complacency is a bad thing”. Finally, something I agree with.

          “People are shameless in leveraging their position to profit from exploiting someone else’s situation or need”. Some people, yes. Not the vast majority of us, as you would have us believe.

          What happened to you in your life and career that you have such an astoundingly negative viewpoint? For some people the glass is half full, for some it’s half empty. For you, the glass is lying in shards on the floor in a puddle of water. What a depressing perspective.

          “Trying to find meaning in your job beyond making money is pointless, because the core reason for the existence of business is to make money”. Augggghhhhh!!!!!! See what I mean?

          “Get purpose for your life and derive your identity from something other than your job (spirituality, contributing to higher ideals, etc…)”. Yes, right again. But how sad that the same person who’s capable of giving such good advice as this has such a skewed view of the human condition in the business world.

        • #3119083

          You’re right – I agree that it is cynical…

          by livin on a prayer ·

          In reply to Filled with contradictions and untruths

          Hi Amcol…

          You’re right. I didn’t consider non for profit and government a true business, because they in my experience typically aren’t ruled by profit margins. At least in Canada, most people I know don?t consider those to be true businesses. Not for profit here is typically funded by charity and donation, and the Government is funded primarily by the taxpayer.

          I can’t speak for corporate America, because I’ve never worked in America. I personally believe Americans enjoy capitalism the way it was intended. And I can’t speak from the experience of working for a Fortune 500 company either, because all my experience is in small business, which makes up the majority of our economy. I’m just sharing what I?ve been through in Canada over the last 10 years operating in several typical small businesses across the country.

          “The number one rule of cost control is to simply not pay…” This is not a principle I came up with myself. This is how my current boss runs his entire business. In fact, that phrase came out his mouth and was directed at his managers (specifically myself and the other department managers). Now this doesn’t mean that he just ignores his bills. To my knowledge, his company pays each and every bill on time and has an excellent credit rating. The stalling however is something he does internally. What he has done is put a freeze on all spending for the first 6 months of the fiscal year. That means if you need to requisition anything that is not absolutely critical to the operation of the business (as in business will stop without it) you are denied unless there’s no other conceivable solution to the problem. And even after the first 6 months of the fiscal year are over, you still have to battle it out for every little thing. Managers are given a budget to run their departments, but none of them can authorize any expense over $100 from their ?budget? without it passing over the bosses’ desk first. That’s the “stall” component of his cost control strategy. I think he figures that by stalling long enough, the problems will go away on their own or somehow we will perform miracles and solve them with nothing. By the way, this is how my boss handles compensating his employees as well. Talk to anyone in the organization. If you don’t fight for your rights tooth and nail, you get absolutely nothing. We’ve had several employees that quit and worked elsewhere, and then ended up coming back a few years later because they were promised higher wages and better benefits. One of my co-workers who actually came back because of these promises recently admitted that my boss never followed through on anything.

          You’re right about personal information. It is illegal for interviewers to ask you about marital status and how many children you have in an interview. No word of a lie, I have been asked this in several interviews already over the years at different small businesses.

          “Do not share powerful information unless it can improve your position somehow”. Here, I wasn?t talking about improving your own personal position. I am fully aware that
          the best way to improve your personal situation is to quit and work somewhere else. No one is putting a gun to your head saying, ?You will work here or else?? We are free to work wherever we want.

          Here, I was talking about getting the basic resources you need to get your IT environment stable. Because my boss has an attitude of ?give it to me for nothing? and ?show me results from nothing?, I?ve had to use selective information disclosure (like I can fix this if you give my department that…) as a negotiation tool to get the funding I need in exchange for solving business problems. Yes, I know this is extremely pathetic. But tell me, what else can you do when you are made responsible for running all IT operations for a shop that grosses $25 million a year in sales, runs 24X7 and depends on it?s MIS system around the clock when you?re given a budget of less than $60,000 per year (including IT wages) and then can?t spend it? How would you like being responsible for a mission critical environment and not being empowered to win? How would you like being responsible for an environment like this but having no real authority to change anything for the better?

          Here?s another thing about my boss?s cost control strategy. He has drawn clear lines in the sand as to the importance of a department with regard to keeping the business running. For example, the sales department has always been considered a profit center because they ?generate revenue?. As such, they have no trouble with obtaining funding. Maintenance, accounting, IT, and shipping are deemed a ?cost center? which to him means that they don?t generate revenue. Because my department and others are considered a cost center, my boss uses this as an excuse to deny funding. In my mind this is extremely flawed, because if you took maintenance out of the picture, our equipment wouldn?t run and we wouldn?t be able to manufacture product. It?s the same thing with shipping and IT. If you didn?t have shipping you wouldn?t be able to send product to customers and business would stop. If you didn?t have IT the business would not be able to track its costs, inventory levels or even communicate effectively with the outside world. That would make business quite difficult to say the least. The fact is that most departments are necessary to the operation of the business just like your body relies on individual interdependant subsystems to keep you alive. Thus, these departments indirectly contribute to the bottom line because they empower the business to operate.

          I?m not trying to argue with you Amcol. I?ve read many of your posts and respect what you have to say. Personally, I?m sick and tired of how things have been and yeah ? I am bitter and cynical, because my experience has been more or less the same in the majority of the places I?ve worked. It?s not IT either ? all the things I?ve talked about are primarily issues with business management. If my boss doesn?t seem to care about the well being of his own business, then tell me, my why should I? Why should I fight to keep his business running when at the end of the day it?s his problem and his bottom line that suffers if the place shuts down because he won?t maintain it?

          Yes, the glass is lying shattered on the floor. At least give me something to hope for or some advice that will help me survive this hell without going crazy. Seriously, the only hope I seem to have right now is becoming financially independent enough to quit working full time in places like this.

        • #3119055

          One point

          by jdmercha ·

          In reply to Filled with contradictions and untruths

          “ANY and ALL business is in the business of making money”

          I’ve worked at for-profits and non-profits as well as contracting to the government. They all operated with the intent of bringing in money.

          True, the non-profits I worked for had a product to sell. The government agency I contracted to also had a product to sell.

    • #3114794

      Fear of the alternatives

      by geobeck ·

      In reply to Why work where you aren’t happy?

      The previous responses covered the bases, pretty much, but it boils down to fear of change. I’m no exception. I have a business plan fairly well sketched out for when I leave my current job, but the hardest thing to do is kill this cash cow, even if I will probably make more money where I’m going next.

      There are those who say money is not the most important thing in a job, but they tend to fall into two categories:

      1. Those who have enough money that they don’t worry about losing their jobs.

      2. Those who are poor enough that they have little hope of getting out of debt anyway.

      • #3116933


        by jbartlett ·

        In reply to Fear of the alternatives

        It’s the HR people who believe that money is not the prime motivator for employees. They all firmly believe this because numerous studies have shown that people will only take so much crap regardless of pay level. Some people would never work on garbage truck regardless of what the job pays. For the majority of people dignity and maintaining self esteem overrules greed.

        Unfortunately HR takes this element of human nature and uses it the wrong way. They justify poor pay because money is not “the prime motivator”. Poor and unmotivating work conditions are the hardeest things to correct and measure so they just ignore that part.

        I got a laugh out of your list of those who don’t consider money important. I think you need a third category:

        HR managers who aren’t breadwinners and don’t have a clue what it is like to be the breadwinner.

    • #3114783

      Limited Options

      by platformrogue ·

      In reply to Why work where you aren’t happy?

      I’ve delayed leaving before because of the following:

      1. Underappreciation of my skills. I really sold myself short as to what I knew and how good I was. It caused me to miss/waste half the .com era working at a Newspaper for 50% to 60% of what I could have earned elsewhere.

      2. Became too specific to a particular company. How many companies can take advantage of someone who spends a little time each day in the following rolls.

      * UNIX system administrator
      * WebSite Developer
      * Programmer
      * Macintosh Support
      * Photochemical film processor maintenance
      * Safety/OSHA compliance officer
      * Forklift trainer

      3. No guts no glory – I was safe where I was so I didn’t take the jump.

    • #3116678

      Typically it is a couple of things

      by jmgarvin ·

      In reply to Why work where you aren’t happy?

      1) The young tend to stay at jobs they hate and complain that their boss won’t listen to them or that they aren’t appreciated.

      Part of this stems from them being young, but also they are inexperienced in the ways of the force.

      2) Scared. I was scared stiff when the economy sucked. I would have done ANYTHING to hold onto my job. When I had a job offer come my way that offered twice as much, I jumped ship…but I stuck with a crappy job for a LONG time until that happened.

      A big thing too is that the IT sector is just recovering, so we are seeing some fresh faces that don’t understand that IT is the red headed step child in the corporate world.

    • #3116577

      Two words ? ?Golden Handcuffs?

      by justlj ·

      In reply to Why work where you aren’t happy?

      Things like location, benefits (the defined kind ? i.e. insurance, etc.), benefits (soft kind ? i.e. work from home occasionally, compensation time for working long hours, free coffee/tea/soda/snacks), comfort with the technology in use, comfort with co-workers, comfort with environment (hate the boss, but know how to avoid; love the people in the next office; love the view out the window), comfort with the latitude (when not working 60 hour weeks, can come in late, leave early, dress casual), pay scale (been there so long that one couldn?t start over at another job without a serious pay challenge). These are all powerful forces in making one question whether things are really so bad and whether it is worth it to leave.

      • #3114673

        Reply To: Why work where you aren’t happy?

        by welshbilly ·

        In reply to Two words ? ?Golden Handcuffs?

        Do you have any jobs going?!?!?

      • #3114523

        Too fat and hairy to be an exotic dancer

        by gspicker ·

        In reply to Two words ? ?Golden Handcuffs?

        After 25 years in IT, I too am indentured by the pay scale, location, etc. After my company tanked four years ago, and until recently, I struggled to find even short-term testing contracts — not much for a QA type when no one was developing new software, 300 people would apply for one posted position, the H1Bs that remained after Y2K drove the rates down to half of what they were in 2000, and companies seemed to want a QA/Network Admin/DBA/Project Manager/lawn maintenace skill combination for$20/hour. Well, the times are getting better and I’m too old to get drafted (already did Nam) — I am almost back to my 2000 wages, commute only 7 miles to work, and am getting out of debt and starting to rebuild the 401k I wiped out — I may be burned out on IT in general, but I’m stuck in it until retirement unless the lottery fairy whacks me — could be a lot worse, so onward I go — the dogs still get designer dog food, my girlfriend is happy and waiting for a big diamond (the discussion on cubic z didn’t last very long), and my credit is intact — feeling groovy!!

      • #3117046

        Until Your Health Suffers

        by sdiego_admin ·

        In reply to Two words ? ?Golden Handcuffs?

        I agree with everything you say and am stuck in poistion that mirrors your comments. If I had an offer that would pay the bills and provide Health Ins., I’d be gone in a second. I’m staying now because it pays the bills. However, I’ve been counciled by both my Primary Care Phys. and my Psych, that my health is degrading and that I need to do something about it. Well I’m already on Blood Pressure, Anti-Depressants, and industrial strength antacids. I’ve never had these issues until things changed for the worse where I work. Don’t just take my word for it, ask the 5 or 6 Sr. Admins that have already left, all with 8 or more years at the current company. No one wanted to leave because of the people / Company/ work environment. Everyone left because of mangement changes that continue to mutilate department moral. Every time I think it can’t get worse, and I get used to it to the point it’s only irritating not painful, it always does get worse. I litterally have to get out of here for my health.
        BTW I haven’t lost my professionalism as I still work the hours required to keep things running and closely monitor my systems as per usual. I do it for my own professionalism, not for my Department. There litterally is no statisfaction in being a hero in this Department, like it used to be. The days of being one of three people in the whole Dept. that used to get bonuses just for performing superior work, are long gone and dead.

    • #3116498

      there’s one that seems to be overlooked

      by surflover ·

      In reply to Why work where you aren’t happy?

      Career Strategy.

      I’ve taken several jobs earlier in my career (although I wouldn’t do it at this point) that I knew I wouldn’t (and didn’t) like because I knew the experience would open other, more desireable jobs for me… and it did… for those who have aspirations of getting higher up in the tree this is the only admirable way up…

      Always remember…

      from the top branches you have a nice view, but the monkeys on the way up just see the butts of the monkeys above them :^O

      • #3117076

        What are you willing to stand?

        by oneshotstop ·

        In reply to there’s one that seems to be overlooked

        “I used to think I wanted a career. Turns out, I really just wanted a paycheck.” There is a lot of truth there. Career Strategy are just words when you are stuck in a hell hole.

    • #3116482

      All good responses…..

      by cp7212 ·

      In reply to Why work where you aren’t happy?

      I am stuck in a job that requires most of the knowledge I already had before I went to school. I will not get experience or a promotion dealing with what I went to school for, as my manager has made that plain to see.

      I had to get into the IT field some way because it was a year and a half after I graduated with no IT jobs. You hear all the gloom and doom about the jobless rate (for anyone, not just IT). I am too fearful that I’ll go to another job (if I could find one), lose it, and wind up having to start all over.

      That is just way too big a dive for me at this point in my life. I don’t have enough experience yet, so I am just biding my time, hoping that things will get better.

      Oh, and by the way, if you ditch the Maalox, don’t take those chews, they make you really thirsty. 😉

      • #3116435

        Fear is a powerful motivator

        by amcol ·

        In reply to All good responses…..

        And almost always the wrong reason to do, or NOT do, anything.

        Ask yourself this question…how much experience do you really need to make the jump to another job at another company?

        Here’s the right answer…you don’t know. You’re constraining yourself with your perceptions, and while you may in fact be right you owe it to yourself to go find out. Put yourself on the market and look around. You have nothing to lose and at least a lot of knowledge and experience to gain.

        Here’s another question to ask yourself…are you more secure in this job than you would be in another job?

        Right answer…probably not. Every single person who works for a living should go to work every single day expecting to hear the words “You’re fired”. There’s no loyalty anymore, corporations make decisions on a financial basis with little to no regard for the human collateral damage, there’s no such thing as indispensible (no matter what anyone thinks about themselves), and job security these days is nothing more than a transitory nebulous whisper in the wind. Once again, you’re constraining yourself artificially. Let yourself out of the cage you’ve locked yourself into, spread your wings and fly.

    • #3114682

      Reasons for not moving on

      by grewcockd ·

      In reply to Why work where you aren’t happy?

      1) Very difficult to get another job when you are
      older than ‘that age’!! It seems that when you are
      over 40, you are all of a sudden ‘IT useless’.
      2) Fear of jumping from the ‘frying pan into the
      fire’. You look to correct the things which are wrong, and find in the new job, the things that were right in the old job, are wrong in the new one!

      • #3114610

        That’s where I’m at.

        by scouterdude ·

        In reply to Reasons for not moving on

        Re #1, yes, once you get to a certain age, and even pay level, moves are difficult to find, not mention the myriad of other issues we have.
        Re #2, I know of WAY to many folks that have left here (edu environment) for a ‘real’ job, and have wanted to come back. It’s never for the pay, but all the other things – people, security, etc.

        Myself, I’m eligible for retirement within the year, at which point I can seriously look around if I want.For the moment tho, I’m happy enough. Upper mgmt can get stupid, and the pay could be better, but as others have mentioned – good coworkers, challenging work to a reasonable level, etc.

    • #3114675

      Always have some work in the present company

      by ananya ·

      In reply to Why work where you aren’t happy?

      In my present company I many times felt like quitting for various reasons. But I continued here because whenever I thought of looking for another job, I found that I had some pending work. I am often in more projects than one at a time. Also, even before a project is completed, I am put into another one. Because of these reasons it never happens that I am not in the middle of some work. I keep thinking that let me finish this work, then I will look for another job.

      • #3114670

        You really don’t want to leave.

        by welshbilly ·

        In reply to Always have some work in the present company

        Really, you don’t want to leave and are content in staying where you are. If you really didn’t like where you are working at present you would just find another job despite any “pending” work.

        Whats wrong with enjoying your job?

        • #3114666

          Really felt like leaving

          by ananya ·

          In reply to You really don’t want to leave.

          At various times I have had various reasons that I felt like quitting. But let me tell the latest reason why I feel that I should quit. I am being penalized for my knowledge. It may seem impossible to believe but it is true. In my apprisals I have always got very positive feedbacks. My supervisors and even the company’s CEO praise me a lot. But in the last few months I am continuously undergoing demotions (though not on paper). I started as a trainee and soon went on to become a project manager. When I was a project manager I always got appreciations from the senior management regarding the way I was managing my team(s). But a few months back our VP told me (in a very sweet tone and also somewhat hesitatingly) that now onwards I will not be leading any team and I will have to just keep on coding. It is not that I hate coding. On the contrary I love it. But I found it bad that some responsibilities should be snatched from me without telling my faults. I asked my VP the reason for this. He said that if I lead teams, then I will not be able to do full time coding. He said that the source codes written by me have always been of better quality than of others and also I have always taken less time in completing a work than others have taken. So the company feels that if I do full time coding, then it will be good for the company. Of course, company is showing trust in me-this is good. But I am feeling bad that I am being penalized for my technical skills.

        • #3114553

          Think I’ll Stay

          by codebubba ·

          In reply to Really felt like leaving

          I can relate to what you said there. One thing to think about, though, is that if doing the coding is something that you really enjoy and are valued for then there’s nothing wrong with staying in it.

          In my particular situation I have had a few situations where I just wanted to walk off and go do something else – but after nearly 7 years in this position I’m the undisputed “guru” of this shop. For all practical purposes I own the business rules of the product. Could they get rid of me? Sure they could – there’s no REAL job security. However it would then take 3 or 4 other people 5 times as long to get the things done that I intrinsically know how to do.

          The company has made occasional attempts at moving me into the middle-management layer but I’m too self-aware to let that happen. I would not do well trying to “manage” other people’s efforts. I know my strength is in coding and diagnostic work so I choose to be content with that. (The pay ain’t too bad either).

          I’ve mananaged to keep things relatively peaceful for myself by simply refusing to involve myself in the company politics. From what you’ve described you’re sounding like you feel penalized where, in actuality, the company simply recognizes where your strengths are. You might be happier if you realize the same. You can still grow where you are – just don’t equate corporate “position” with your growth level.

          -CB 🙂

        • #3137758

          But not liking some of work

          by ananya ·

          In reply to Think I’ll Stay

          Yes it is true that the company is showing trust in me, but I am not liking the way in which I am being asked to do some of work. In the past also it happened on many occasions that I was asked to solve a problem, when the problem was found to be unsolvable by others or when they were asking for far more time than the customers were ready to wait for. Since I could solve problems in time, I got appreciations. Obviously it made me feel good, but now I feel being penalized for the following reasons:-

          1. Politics:- About a year back one team was facing a problem because of which they could not complete their project. I was not a member of that team. The project was very crucial. A group of people were added to that team. These new people were asked to look into that problem. They took about two months but could not find a solution. Since time was running short, our CEO asked me to look into the problem. I was already busy with my own project. But still I agreed to give time to that problem. I worked alone on the problem and took three days to give the solution. I created a component using that solution. I gave the component to the PM of that team so that the component could be plugged into his project. The senior management praised me a lot for this. This hurt that PM’s ego. He used my solution but told our CEO that he did not use my solution but used some other solution which his team found out. He even said that my solution could not be used in his project. I knew that this was not true. But I decided to keep quiet thinking that it does not matter who gets the credit. But in a few days it so happened that many people in the company started calling me liar and saying that I tried to take credit though I did not deserve it. I could not keep quiet now. I somehow could prove that they had used my solution though they changed some variable and function names. One thing I found surprising is that our CEO did not want me to prove my point. For example, when I was going through the source code of that team to find the evidence that they had used my solution, our CEO often used to tell me not to waste my time on that and do my own work. He also told me not to tell such lies in future just to get credit. I became the target of insults from all quarters. But somehow I could prove that what I was saying was right. Then I met my CEO in person and asked him as to why he did not want me to prove my point. His reply shocked me. He was under impression that I am soft-spoken and tolerant; so I won’t take things to heart that easily. On the other hand, that PM was short tempered. So our CEO thought that it was more important to keep that PM happy. He did not want any of us to quit. He told me that I should forget this whole incident and that such things happen in all companies.
          There are some other reasons why I felt like quitting. Rather than making a single post too long, I will post those reasons in other post(s).

        • #3136101

          Don’t Sweat the Small Stuff

          by wayne m. ·

          In reply to But not liking some of work

          Sometimes the best approach is to ignore a situation and not to get too worked up about it. This is usually the case in political situations.

          From reading this post and one other, I presume that Ananya is respected in the company (was asked to work on a crucial problem, has been rewarded during and outside of the normal appraisal process). It appears the CEO is aware of Ananya’s capabilities.

          In this case, one should not expect the CEO would give Ananya a full evaluation of the PM and the PM’s capabilities. That should be reserved for a private meeting between the PM and the CEO or the PM’s boss. Ananya will just have to trust his company that has or will happen.

          Don’t worry who takes credit for any particular success or takes the blame for any specific failure. Establish a track record and assume people will recognize the truth. Be happy to have helped the company; you will just drive yourself crazy if you get into playing the “credit” game.

        • #3114461

          What about Faith?

          by pierson glyn-williams ·

          In reply to Really felt like leaving

          It is always possible to do a great job and climb the ladder using and developing all the necessary skills to do so, but at the same time it may feel like it is not worth the hardship,grind, or whatever efforts you may think it takes. Looking at other opportunities (internet businesses, new job, different career, etc.) it could be quite a difference from what you are doing today. But, then again, is it a question of jumping from the frying pan to the fire as we know that it may not always be so rosey building a business and having to deal with other issues, like isolation, and basically a completely different grind.

          I think it is a question of faith — God blesses us where we are in our life and that we have the option of being grateful for each of the blessings we have around us – and trusting in him that He will move us forward in to the positions that we truly desire while being diligent in our current job while being patience.

          I wish there was a clearer picture of the future, but the truth is (as I see it), is that we can’t always plan out the future as things can easily be taken away or given to us at any time. So, in many cases it’s best to live as joyously as possible in the present while we hold our desires in our heart and in mind, while God takes care of the rest. This also involved being aware of the actions we need to take to reach this desire and to keep our desires close while looking within to take the necessary leaps and steps. I believe that we are rewarded based on our present state of mind, the choice and control that we are given is in our current day, not the future or the past. So, it is important to find ways to make our day as great as possible and the rest will take care of itself.

          (Note: This message was a message to myself – I needed to write it out so that I may have a clearer picture of how I feel about this issue)


        • #3136755

          RE: Faith

          by tim.doyle3 ·

          In reply to What about Faith?

          I’ve never really thought of TechRepublic as a place to talk about faith… til today. Now I’m a PK, from a very religious & faithful family, I believe in God, etc… and I guess I’ve never really thought about it the way you just laid it out. And it applies to jobs OTHER than IT, too.


        • #3117149

          How are you being penalized?

          by keyguy13 ·

          In reply to Really felt like leaving

          It sounds to me like you are being put to the best use possible by your company. Would you have gotten more pay by leading teams? Or is this just an ego thing? You feel like you SHOULD be leading teams? If you would be getting paid more for leading teams then ask for it. Sounds to me like if they value your coding skills they would be likely to give you more pay to keep you. And if you truly ARE a good coder, you could probably get more money elsewhere if you were to look.

        • #3137742

          No, not because of ego

          by ananya ·

          In reply to How are you being penalized?

          In the post titled “But not liking some of work”, I gave one reason why I felt like leaving.

          It is not because of pay. I am quite satisfied with the salary I am getting here. Recently they increased my salary by a significant amount even though I did not ask for it. Usually salary here is increased after apprisal. My salary was already increased after my apprisal in December. Again it was increased recently without any apprisal.

          It is also not because of ego. I always care not to hurt anyone either in my professional or in my personal life. If I find that somebody has been hurt by me even unintentionally, I explain that it was not my intention and I ask for forgiveness without any hesitation.

          When I was leading teams, then I used to find time to mentor others. Often people from other teams also joined in those mentoring programs (of course with permission from their team leads). This was helping me a lot because rather than doing lots of work myself, I could share work with some others. People whom I used to mentor also liked it because they were happy that they were learning new things.

          Now that I am not leading teams and have to do lots of work alone, I often feel pressurised. I have to fix problems in lots of codes written by some others. In order to fix some problem in a nice way, I need some more time. But I am asked to always apply some quick and dirty fix (often by doing lots of hardcodings) just to save time. I have always mentioned that we should not fix problems like that. But I am told that there is no other way out.

          Since I took up lots of work which was started by some other people, it so happened that lots of people in the company had very little work for a long time. Then one day, the company felt that it was not good to continue to give them salary and they were asked to quit. I do not understand how it was my fault. But they got angry with me. They told me that I was responsible for all their layoff. Some of them were even in tears and told me that they had families to support and that I would rot in hell for what I did to them. I met the senior management. I requested them to give some work to them from me if the company felt that they were doing very little work. This way it will be good for both those employees as well as the company. But the management did not agree to this.

          After they were made to quit I started feeling as if I was really responsible. I often used to think about the problems their families must be facing because of financial constraints. I told them that I would provide whatever help I could in getting them jobs in other companies. They first told me that they did not want any favour from me, but after a few days, they agreed. They used to come to my house so that I could help them clarify their technical doubts. I even used to help them financially. After that they tried elsewhere and got jobs in other companies. Most of them are happy with the salary they are getting there. A few are getting less salary than they were getting here but they are happy that they at least have some source of income.

          Only after they all got jobs I felt at ease. Otherwise I was always having guilty feelings.

          Feeling under pressure and having to fix problems in ways which I do not find good are other reasons why I sometimes do not like my job here.

        • #3135917

          You’re being pigeon-holed

          by mark miller ·

          In reply to Really felt like leaving

          I’ve had this experience. It’s not uncommon at small companies, I figure, since small companies need everyone at the top of their game in order to succeed.

          I had this experience back in the ’90s. I was a C/DOS/Unix coder. I liked it for a while, but eventually it got old. I wanted to move on to other challenges. I had the opportunity to do some C/Windows coding early on and really enjoyed it. But they took me off that in favor of Unix. I took it upon myself to learn C++, and asked if I could use it on future projects. I also wanted to get back into Windows coding at some point. Since I had been moved into Unix development a year before, my project manager, who was a good guy, thought it wouldn’t be wise to do that, since our server product needed to work on our customers’ Unix systems, and they already had a competent Windows coder, and that was all they needed.

          They couldn’t guarantee that their customers’ Unix system would have a C++ compiler on it, and even then whether it would have all the compatibility we needed (some C++ compilers didn’t implement all of the esoteric features of templates). It was safer to stick with C. And stuck I was. Later he tried moving me into Java, and that seemed promising for a while. They tried to get me involved in building business applets for a web application, but we discovered that the version of Java of the time was not as cross-browser compatible as we were led to believe. Different JVMs, different behavior, different stuff didn’t work. So again, I was stuck back in C Land.

          Management was getting worse, not better. I could see signs of disintegration around me. So I decided I had had enough and it was time to leave. The IT job market was hot (supposedly) and I got a job later doing C++/MFC programming, on Windows, and really enjoyed it, while it lasted. I got into it just when it was going out of style, and when the IT bubble was beginning to deflate. Bad timing. I got laid off in 2001. Just last year I found new work (you do the math) doing ASP.Net development as a contractor. It’s quite an adjustment, but there are things I enjoy about the challenge. There are some advantages to web development, but there are times when I wish I was still doing GUI development. It was just simpler to do some things.

        • #3114648

          Oh but I do…..

          by patersol ·

          In reply to You really don’t want to leave.

          …. at least I think I do!

          I did previously enjoy working here, but over the last year or two I spend more time hating my job than enjoying it…

          I am not content with my job for various reasons: boss, company structure, lack of career direction to name but a few.

          However, I still do feel some (however misguided!) loyalty – not so much to the company, but to my team… Last year we had a significant team member up and leave half way through a large project, and this made work very difficult for the rest of us left behind. The company could have managed the leaving better and given us more support, however, in the end it was the team members who had to pick up the flak…

          So I do not want to put a similar burden onto my collegues, and find myself continually waiting for ‘a good time’ to leave.

        • #3137822

          You will always be in a team or project, so…

          by doogal123 ·

          In reply to Oh but I do…..

          Don’t let engagement in a team or project stall out your ideas of a job search and departure from a job you know you hate. It is NOT DISLOYAL to keep your own future as your main priority.

          Remember, if you can, that there was a time when you loved to come in to work. Whether you end your employment or perhaps are the recipient of a layoff, some project will still always be up in the air with some team when your departure time comes along.

      • #3114440


        by keyguy13 ·

        In reply to Always have some work in the present company

        If you think you are the only person in the universe that could finish a project you started, then you are seriously deluded 🙂

        That should never be a reason why you don’t seek happiness elsewhere. It sounds to me like you are content though, otherwise why would you continue to take on more projects if you are unhappy?

    • #3114674

      why stay?

      by richard.dunning1 ·

      In reply to Why work where you aren’t happy?

      1. Credit cards
      2. Mortgages
      3. Alimony
      4. Kids
      5. School fees
      6. Re- locating

      • #3114485

        Pretty poor reasons

        by charliespencer ·

        In reply to why stay?

        Those are reasons why you have to work, not why you continue to work where you’re unhappy. What’s keeping you from looking for employment somewhere else? Not every employer change involves relocating.

    • #3114671

      Better the devil you know

      by abarton ·

      In reply to Why work where you aren’t happy?

      I have only ever had 3 jobs in my career and I am 51. There will always be aspects to a job that you are not happy with wherever you work. My attitude is simple – if the salary pays the bills, stick at it and ignore the crap that you hear and see. It’s all psychological to me, the more you involve yourself in the bitterness and unhappiness, the more it attaches itself to you.
      Keep Smiling!

      • #3114667

        Reply To: Why work where you aren’t happy?

        by welshbilly ·

        In reply to Better the devil you know

        I’ve had 3 jobs in 5 years! 🙂

        I have the same outlook as the post earlier on, that your better off taking the risks now earlier on in your career rather than later on. With no dependants it’s easier to do this now than when you do.

        But I agree with your last point that “the more you involve yourself in the bitterness and unhappiness, the more it attaches itself to you.” I have learnt the hard way and if you try and change your own attitude you could change people’s attitudes towards yourself.

    • #3114668

      more traveling

      by dean.greensmith ·

      In reply to Why work where you aren’t happy?

      As I live in a mainly farming county wherer the IT roles are few and far between outside the small city where I live, to comute to the next nearest big city would mean that I would need a second car (my wife uses the family one) any potential pay increase would be swallowed up by the running costs of the second car and I would be traveling more so wourl see my family less.
      Oh shure there are people out there whou would say well sell up and move to a bigger place, but in the current housing market my has been on the market for over a year and things just keep going wrong with the sales. we’ve had 2 fall through now.
      In an ideal world we would all live in a nice neighbourhood 10 minutes walk from where we work and earn enough to do the things we want to do, but in the real workd the system seems stacked against us.

      Dean in farmer country

    • #3114655

      Why stay in a job you don’t like?

      by creigmy9 ·

      In reply to Why work where you aren’t happy?

      It is not just in IT. In many cases as long as they don’t hassle you why fight? Age also plays a factor young to old, young can’t move because to many “older or people with longevity” are clogging the preverbal ladder. To old and not willing to change as “yuppie” and “X” generation supervisors are hired in at larger salaraies with less knowledge. The dread length of time to find another job plus the disdane of some “employment” workers that can’t believe you don’t know how to function as a “fish out of water”. Just a few “WHY’s” that can’t be answered with “because”.

    • #3114643

      I’m not happy and I stay because

      by kampcs ·

      In reply to Why work where you aren’t happy?

      I just took this job 6 months ago. I left a place where my career growth was stunted, and I was grossly underpaid–but I LOVED working there.

      Now I have all kinds of opportunities to move up, a 40% pay increase, and I’m miserable because I just don’t like the company or most of the people I work with. It’s not the work I dislike, it’s the environment.

      Believe me–in another 6 months, I WILL be getting a new job, but changing jobs so frequently in my opinion just isn’t a good idea.

    • #3114609

      Wrong Question

      by andeanderson ·

      In reply to Why work where you aren’t happy?

      I believe you have asked the wrong question.

      It isn’t “…what are the reasons why you don’t look for another job?” so much as it is “Why can’t you find another job?”

      When I was laid for a year my job search only turned up two interviews, using both personal and head hunter resources. Where I was laid-off from recalled me, so I am back at work. But, I am still searching for another position.

      Where I live, South-Central Pennsylvania, the market has become saturated with IT resources which have lost their jobs due to manufacturing companies being bought out and moved to another country, plus the down-sizing this forced on the supporting companies for the manufacturers which closed and moved out of the USA.

      Soooo, finding another job isn’t as easy as it sounds, that doesn’t mean we are not looking. I have begun looking for positions outside of the IT world because of the changing work environments available and I am a little burned out with the IT career field.

      • #3114572


        by 69552901-69552901 ·

        In reply to Wrong Question

        You are right on with your response.

        No one said these people haven’t been looking for other jobs, just that they have no place to go. I was laid off a little over two weeks ago, but have been looking for another job much longer than that. I’ve hardly had so much as a sniff at my resume, and it’s not like I’m straight out of school.

        It’s not that people don’t want to look for work, it’s just that there’s nothing there to get!

        • #3114480

          No, I meant the question I asked.

          by charliespencer ·

          In reply to agreed!

          Many of these discussions complaining about the work conditions include lines like “How do I change this problem? I don’t want to leave.” They respond negatively to suggestions they look for another job.

          I understand about tight job markets; I don’t understand not even looking when you’re miserable. Most of the responses appear to boil down to one word: inertia.

    • #3114593


      by newitguy ·

      In reply to Why work where you aren’t happy?

      The main reason why people do not migrate to other jobs is because we by nature fear the unknow. That is also why we all have 9-5 jobs where we let the company make all the money and the government take 40% of our already meagre pay. We would rather work for money to live paycheck to paycheck. I have only been in IT for 3 years now and I am ready to stop working for a company that cares little of you and never praises you when you save them $$ but scolds you when you make a mistake in judgment. The only thing holding me back is fear.

    • #3114585

      realities of changing jobs

      by jck ·

      In reply to Why work where you aren’t happy?

      1) relocation: if you have a family, that is hard
      2) stability: how sure are you the job will be in the next budget?
      3) unknowns: will you being from the frying pan into the fire?
      4) benefits: switching jobs usually means not having fully/mostly paid benefits for some period and having to pay for COBRA or some other insurance.
      5) fear: I’ve known a couple people that looked around, and were given hard times at work (workload increases, unreasonable tasks, etc) because the boss found out they were actively looking and decided to make things worse for one reason or another.

      I’m sure there are others. I have no fear, as I could walk into any business with an open programming position and probably get it. Most of the time, you can b.s. your way into a job because the people interviewing you are technically detached from details.

    • #3114571

      Re: Find the Right Position

      by chandlermiller ·

      In reply to Why work where you aren’t happy?

      After receiving two dozen job offers in the last two years, it is important to find the right job in the right industry that is also in a growing part of the United States. Quickly moving from one misery to another accomplishes little in one’s professional life.

      Nearly twenty years of mission-critical software and systems development experience in multiple industries has shown that IT/IS jobs are often open because the previous person experienced high levels of dissatisfaction or worse the company has created an internal operational mess they need someone to cleanup.

      Incidentally, of all of the industries, I have worked in, and there have been many as a contractor, public elementary and secondary education is the worst. Positions in the public sector, including those in the federal and state government, are the most disorganized, wasteful, and inefficient. The DOD and government contractors, while often very high paying, is like being sentenced to hell on a 24/7 basis. Unless, you have a very good reason for taking such a position, avoid the public sector like the plague. You will be happy you did–guaranteed!

      • #3114542

        Public Sector

        by codebubba ·

        In reply to Re: Find the Right Position

        I have, fortunately, not worked much in the public sector myself. The only time I remember doing that was back when I was in school (back around 1977) when I took a temporary job with the Red Cross. I could type fast and was doing data-entry. After about a half-day I was told to SLOW DOWN because I was making all the other employees look bad! After that I realized that public-sector work was NOT where I wanted to be.

        About 5 years ago I interviewed for a contractor’s position with one of NASA’s contractors. It seems like it would have been cool work – developing software to support one of the rocket programs. I nearly took the position – but I just had a bad feeling about working for a government contractor so I turned it down and stayed put. Glad I did. The cutbacks following Y2K killed that project from what I heard and I would have been back on the street.

        My step-mother is always trying to talk me into getting a good, secure GOVERNMENT job. No thanks!

        -CB 🙂

    • #3114557

      What, and let them run you out?!?

      by tonythetiger ·

      In reply to Why work where you aren’t happy?


      • #3114539

        Exactly, leaving means the bad boss wins right?

        by stepmonster ·

        In reply to What, and let them run you out?!?

        Exactly, leaving means the bad boss wins right? Wins what, I do not know. But when it feels like his only goal is to run you off, and you stand firm instead – you feel like you win. But in reality – you live in his shitty world – as a squirrel. He wins if you stay – not if you leave.

        • #3117113

          I got tired of it and quit without another job lined up!!!

          by fooser dan the network man ·

          In reply to Exactly, leaving means the bad boss wins right?

          Short, sweet and to the point – I had a crappy boss in my last job. Overbearing, micromanaging, unrealistic, abusive, degrading, you name it. He was all of 5′ tall, so I think he had a Napoleon complex…but I digress. I spent 10 successful years in the U.S. Army and never came across anyone as evil. He had received numerous complaints to HR about him, to no avail. I put up with it for over a year and a half – I stayed partially because I felt some level of loyalty to the company, some because it was VERY close to my house, and some simply because I am fond of having a job. I finally decided that enough was enough in June, and left without another job lined up. Two months later I was working again, in a MUCH better job learning new technologies. I have a great manager, and it is even closer to home than I was before!!!

          What a country!

        • #3117040


          by sdiego_admin ·

          In reply to I got tired of it and quit without another job lined up!!!

          I’m glad things worked out for you. It gives me hope. I’m currently planning my exit, job or no job. And that’s a tuff thing for a single income family man with three kids. Either I leave or they kill me (stress), it’s come down to that.

        • #3135915

          Yep, I know what you mean

          by mark miller ·

          In reply to I got tired of it and quit without another job lined up!!!

          I had a similar experience at one of my former employers several years ago, back during the “go-go” 90s. I started noticing problems when a new manager took over. I tried alerting those around me, and another manager I had a good working relationship with to the problem, but nobody did anything. It was very disheartening. I stayed for another year, because I was loyal to my coworkers. I knew I was a critical member of the team, and it would be disruptive to their jobs if I left. We were a small company and everyone there had stores of knowledge about how our systems and our customers’ systems worked stored in our heads. It got to the point though when I couldn’t stand to come to work anymore. I couldn’t stand to deal with this guy. I felt like I was either going to leave, or stay on and go crazy, or suffer some form of severe depression. I’m not exaggerating either. I gave my notice without another job lined up, though at the time the IT job market was supposedly hot, so I figured I’d be able to find another one easily. I made a deal with the company owner as well to document as much relevant knowledge as I could think of before I left. I was at it for 2-1/2 months, full time, and by the time I left I *still* wasn’t done! My bad boss just got tired of waiting for me to leave and finally got me to set a firm date.

          The job market was not as great as I was led to believe. It actually took me several months of looking to find something. I would later learn that this time when I was looking was the beginning of the end of the IT bubble. It was a case of bad timing, but still, you couldn’t have paid me money to stay at my former employer. It was time for me to go.

        • #3135916

          Been there

          by mark miller ·

          In reply to Exactly, leaving means the bad boss wins right?

          I’ve experienced this. I was at this one job several years ago where a new manager was brought in, and he was not good. He was disorganized, but he ran very good cover. He was able to make it look like you were the one who was disorganized and didn’t know what you were doing, not him. Finally I had had enough. I realized the engineering process was sliding backwards into “amateur hour”, not making progress towards better processes, and I gave my notice.

          I could tell, nothing made him happier. I was actually happy too. I felt liberated by the idea I wouldn’t have to deal with him anymore soon. I figured the rest of the poor saps at the company would have to deal with him. Indeed, that’s what happened. He destroyed many workers’ morale, and they ended up leaving as well. It was like dominoes. Eventually managers around him started noticing that he was destroying the company. They convinced the company owner to shift him around to different duties where he could do the least damage. It helped some, but he still managed to cause problems. I’d chalk it up more to incompetence than conscious sabotage. Eventually they let him go. But it didn’t stop there. The company was already on the skids and they were looking for a buyer. I wouldn’t say this occurred solely because of this bad manager, though he certainly didn’t help. The IT bubble had burst and every IT-based company was struggling. Eventually they did get bought, but they kept the former owner on as an executive, managing his former company. Eventually they noticed he was cooking his books, so they brought in someone to replace him. Since then, so I’ve heard, it’s gotten a LOT better there. One of the former CIOs, who had left when things were starting to disintegrate, came back to work with them earlier this year.

          Just goes to show that the people at the top can make or break a company.

    • #3114534

      Why stay?

      by michaelkornbluth ·

      In reply to Why work where you aren’t happy?

      In short, 2 mortgages and 4 tuitions.

    • #3114524

      I have always wondered this one as well

      by cweb ·

      In reply to Why work where you aren’t happy?

      I have worked for places that were the horror stories that many have mentioned. Why stay? I have worked with people who seem to only be happy when they are miserable. Not the way I want to live my life.
      Its unbelievable to me people that will let a business drive them until they have health problems? Hello? What do you owe them?
      I believe you should put into a company what you get out of it. If its a good environment and good pay and benefits than by all means give your best. But if not that act accordingly and look for something better.

    • #3114517

      Learning Potential

      by cakewalk ·

      In reply to Why work where you aren’t happy?

      Since my old boss retired and my new boss came in, over the past year I’ve moved from being the “IT Guy,” where everyone assumed all I do is “fix computers,” to now planning and implementing a somewhat respectable office network – Active Directory, SAN, Exchange, security policy, etc. Daunting for one person who has not been given the opportunity to utilize his skills and education, but it’s a great opportunity to gain experience.

      Right now the possibilities are endless, and I’d be a fool to leave now that I have an IT-savvy boss who supports everything I’ve been pushing for a long time (6 years on a peer to peer network with 40+ computers – a nightmare!) So, I’d rather learn and grow before having to prove myself in a new environment where I could fall flat on my face.

    • #3114513

      Wait And See

      by dcbeckster ·

      In reply to Why work where you aren’t happy?

      I’m in this type of situation and I’m staying to wait and see if the environment improves. Also, being so close to the holidays, no one wants to be job searching during Thanksgiving or Christmas. So in the begining of January, I’ll probably be looking to make a move.

      • #3117018

        waiting until after XMAS to job search…

        by ladyreader ·

        In reply to Wait And See

        …is a bad idea. Companies often lay off people right BEFORE the holidays (and before the new year). If they’re looking to replace those workers (perhaps to bring in a staff with a newer skill set so they don’t have to pay to retrain employees with the “old” skills) they will be looking even before those old employees get their pink slips.
        I have lived that scenario twice now. My best advice: don’t wait.

    • #3114506

      Out of the frying pan & into the fire

      by usbport1 ·

      In reply to Why work where you aren’t happy?

      My question to myself is will it truly be better working at another company. I’ve worked at several companies and at each there were problems so why exchange one set of problems for another? Is the grass really greener on the other side? Maybe yes, maybe no. I’ve been checking region wide for a new position and trying to find everything in one package (pay, benefits, hours, bonuses, 401K, etc.) has proved very hard to find. If I did find it I would surely take it in a heart beat, but I’m not jumping until it provides everything I really want and need in a job.

    • #3114498

      Have a family to support

      by cagedmonkey ·

      In reply to Why work where you aren’t happy?

      Regardless of the fact that I can’t stand the boss I work for.

      I have a wife and four kids to support and make sure they have health insurance. Not to mention keeping a roof over their head.

      I’d leave in an instant if the right offer came up. But I’ve been looking for that ‘ever-elusive’ offer for the past two years now.

      So I just stick it out and continue to come to work. I always try to do my best and keep on the ‘game face’ to look like I like my job.

      The work itself is good, just the boss sucks. Nothing worse than working for a boss that knows absolutely nothing about what you do and thinks fixing printers is more important than getting a server back up and running.

      • #3114456

        I can definately relate

        by davidpollard ·

        In reply to Have a family to support

        I truly understand your scenario. I live the same one with the exception of the boss thing. I just hate the type of work I do which is telephone support. The medical benefits are necessary in today’s world when you have children, the bank loves the job to.
        Your day will come or follow my motto and make your own opportunity!

      • #3117035


        by sdiego_admin ·

        In reply to Have a family to support

        In my case, I’m tired of being prescribed pill junky for the first time in my life. I’ve got to get my health back so the job has to go. Two years of struggle has been all I can take. My family understands and agrees.

        • #3116962

          In the same boat

          by davidpollard ·

          In reply to Ditto!

          I have a back problem, I was a welder/fitter/milwright making 60grand a year up to 5 yrs ago. I ended up going back to college and getting my IT papers and moving on with life, however, my medical expenses are high because of the pain killers I need to maintain mobility and of course the regular family stuff to. Next year I am having surgery to hopefully end or curb the need of the pain killers. Do what it takes, but remember, as long as you have a mind and can still use your hand you can do anything. I was in a wheelchair for 2 years but it did not stop me from attacking my goals to provide and maintain my own need to feel like a part of society.

    • #3114497

      What does U2 say?

      by ojeda ·

      In reply to Why work where you aren’t happy?

      “I still haven’t found what I’m looking for!”

      And you haven’t either. Ya can’t frag ’em, but you can always bag ’em.

      Analyze what is good and what is bad. If good outweighs bad, stay. Otherwise, vamanos (sp?).

      Or get advice on seducing women, because if they’ll sleep with the boss, you can probably charm them also.

      12 jobs in 20 years has taught me a bunch. Always made more money when I switched. 5 years at this job, which could be on the block when my kid completes HS.

      You can always get a new job. You determine what your life will be however.

      Align yourself with the following 3 priorities:
      1) Spirituality: either from an intrinsic or extrinsic source. What do you do to make yourself feel whole?
      2) Family: consider friends in this category.
      3) Work: notice that this is LAST.

      Remember, it’s a job, not an adventure. If you want an adventure, join the Armed Forces. Worked for me early. Now, even if the boss thinks he has “killed me off”, I just “respawn” someplace else.

      Follow Mark Twain’s advice: Dance like nobody’s watching. Love like you’re never been hurt. Sing like nobody’s listening. Live like it’s heaven on earth.

    • #3114495

      Too Political

      by manders3 ·

      In reply to Why work where you aren’t happy?

      At my site it is who you know not what you know.

    • #3114493

      Happiness is an Attitude

      by sbrown ·

      In reply to Why work where you aren’t happy?

      I have found, over the course of my 30 years in the workforce, that if you find a job where the good points outweigh the bad, stick with it. Because those jobs are not in the majority.

      I have also learned that happiness and a lower stress level are more important than money.

      For instance, in the job I have now, I make less money than I have in the past, but I enjoy it much more. I am actually excited on Monday mornings when I GET to go back to work!

      I teach Computer Technology at Vatterott College in Springfield, Missouri, and I love it. Still, there are others who complain and always find a negative point to focus on, instead of looking to all the positive aspects (that’s human nature.)

      So my advice is this: try to find all the positive things about your job, and if the negative aspects outweigh the positive (or if you can’t find any positive points) then it’s time to decide if you want to; 1.) Stay and be miserable 2.) Stay and try to change your attitude, or 3.) Find another job that is more satisfying (even if you have to take a cut in pay.)

    • #3114476

      The bank loves my job

      by davidpollard ·

      In reply to Why work where you aren’t happy?

      For me it is not a case of any work, but a case of hating phone support and keeping the bank happy. The bank needs to see stable employment for Mortgage purposes, so I work for Sympatico as a Tier 1 support agent. I and a few of my colleagues have pulled together to start our own business, ESC IT. It is extremely difficult to obtain or further our knowledge and experience because the field is highly competitive in Ontario even though most of us have been involved in IT for 8 years or more. So in my free time, I swamp myself and colleagues with any computer repairs, website design, and network setups that I bid for or find.
      My motto?s are ?Don?t think it, Just do it!? and ?If opportunity ain?t there, Make it so it is!?

    • #3114450

      The answer is fear…

      by keyguy13 ·

      In reply to Why work where you aren’t happy?

      The only reason anyone stays in a sh|tty job that makes them unhappy is the fear of being MORE unhappy somewhere else. Whether it be the fear of unemployment or the fear of doing work that sucks worse than your current work, etc. it all comes down to fear.

      The fact is, until it becomes TOO uncomfortable to bear, people aren’t going to risk leaving their current job for the unknown.

      When we finally get to the breaking point, it’s usually too late to get a better job because you’re nerves and confidence are shot and you are desperate. Desperation is so easy to spot that any employer you interview with is going to lowball you with their salary offer.

      It’s a vicious catch-22. I’ve found the best way to overcome this is to leave when you 1st discover that you will NEVER be happy at the job you’re in.

      Face the fear now rather than later. Look for the new job while you’re currently employed and if you can’t find it, create it in the form of a business you can do yourself as either a contractor or other venue.

      I say this because for me, my happiness is more important than money and I am willing to face any fear to have the kind of life I want.

      Another thing is to treat this job like it doesn’t matter if you keep it. Start making demands for what you want. Start informing people of your boundaries. Do your best to make your job one that you love. You’ll either succeed and not NEED to find a new job, or you’ll fail and they will fire you. If that is the case, document it. Know why they wanted you out. He|| ask them, they might even tell you. That way, when you get your unemployment checks and are looking for a new job, you can ask your new prospects if they have the job YOU want and that you would love to do or not. When you know what you want, it’s easy to see from their reactions whether they are going to deliver it or resist you.

      I’ve practiced this for the last 10 years and it has worked out beautifully for the most part. I’ve only been fired once and I quit one job too.

      I am now in the process of asking for changes in my current job that I have been at for 4 years. It is not going well but I am going to persist until they either give in or fire me. Either way, crisis solved.

      You have to be responsible for your own happiness.

      • #3117129

        Bullseye my friend.

        by sunshine47 ·

        In reply to The answer is fear…

        You hit the nail on the head.
        Fear is the only reason that keeps people in crap jobs. I like your solutions. Cheers

      • #3137398

        Well, fear and circumstances and need…

        by qkwzxyjp ·

        In reply to The answer is fear…

        Of course, you have a point that fear is a factor in staying at a job that you don’t like — but it is usually overly simplistic to just blurt that out as the one and only reason for sticking with a lousy job.

        During the DotCom boom, I had good programming jobs in the Silicon Valley. I made good money performing tasks that I enjoyed. In 2001, the company I worked for laid off a large number of employees. I have not found a good job since that time.

        After 9+ months of looking for another programming job, I took a very bogus job in tech support for a small ISP, just so there was some money coming in.

        Now I’m stuck doing work that I NEVER would have chosen — but it keeps food on the table and a roof over my head. As the time has passed, I realize that my marketability (for the types of tasks at which I used to excel, and which I found rewarding) has continued to decrease. After this much time, I do not believe that I will be able to get back into the field I spent years learning, and years working.

        So, I’m stuck looking at starting in a brand new field at my relatively advanced age (I’m 47). I will need to get some more training or schooling, in order to get a job that is not minimum-wage, unskilled labor. I don’t make enough at my current job to pay for any schooling.

        Well, that’s enough whining, I’m sure. My point was simply to say that I think it is almost inevitably an incomplete answer to say that a person stays at a job they dislike entirely out of fear. Situations and circumstances are bound to be a factor as well.


    • #3114449

      Wow, the grass really isn’t greener on the other side

      by andyb-uk ·

      In reply to Why work where you aren’t happy?

      The grass is obviously not greener on the other side. I too was in a situation where I was not happy with how things were going. I took 2 weeks of the precious holiday time off, not to go on holiday but to sit down and appraise why I felt this way. I listed the pros and the cons both in my work and personal life and found that actually I must be fairly happy with where I was as I had not changed sooner – 27+ years with the same corporation . However the lists did point out some changes that I needed to make, change my career path within the company and adjust some problems in my home life. I’m not saying things are perfect, but my outlook is now much calmer and my gripes at work stay round the coffee machine and don’t interfere at my desk. It’s worth the try and did take me 18 months toimplement but the drop in stress level was worth it.

      • #3137707

        It’s all in your attitude..

        by scouterdude ·

        In reply to Wow, the grass really isn’t greener on the other side

        Well, maybe not all, but it certainly effects your outlook on life. Any job’s going to have some less desirable parts you just gotta deal with. If there’s a truly crappy boss that some have described, yeah, you’re probably better off leaving. But other than that, keep your head up, do your best, and take care of your health and home.

    • #3117138

      Get out and Contract

      by apextechnotes ·

      In reply to Why work where you aren’t happy?

      I was in that situation didn’t like my job. I quit and they contracted me back as well as I have other large contracts with other companies. I get to chose my hours, nobody checking to see if I am 5 minutes late or leaving early, if I want to leave for a coffee for an hour I can. Life is great right now for me.

      • #3116988

        Lifes a b1tch……then you die….

        by lsmith1989 ·

        In reply to Get out and Contract

        Lifes a b1tch……then you die….

    • #3117117

      Biding my time

      by ambalish ·

      In reply to Why work where you aren’t happy?

      I plan on changing careers completely, but what I want requires going to school and getting certified. My husband is in graduate school right now and will be finished by this time next year. Our finances are tight and with him going to class/studying/working late to make up for the time he’s in class, that leaves me to keep the household running and keep everyone fed and in clean clothes. When he’s done with school, our roles will reverse.

      Nothing good comes from rash decisions.

    • #3117088

      Paul Simon said it best

      by jackuvalltrades ·

      In reply to Why work where you aren’t happy?

      There must be 50 ways to leave your . I don’t know about anyone else, but I have been in this situation for an extended period of time. After fighting the system and developing terrible problems due to high stress, I finally realized many things:

      1) I love what I do, but maybe not my current “job”. I like the company, most of the people and the location.
      2) I have familial responsibilites – children, aging parents, a niece and nephew to help raise – that take precedence over my desires.
      3) My “job” doesn’t define who or what I am. I can make money doing pretty much anything. It just so happens that I landed in IT, have been very successful at it and it affords me a very nice standard of living (or debt, depending on your perspective).

      As zen as all of this may sound, it really comes down to a list of personal priorities. There are bad and good companies, bosses, co-workers, etc. everywhere and you will never find the perfect job. Happiness comes from within, grasshopper. All of the other distractions, both positive and negative, are transient.

      An unexamined life is not worth living and that includes introspection about your job.

    • #3117047

      They shouldn’t stick around

      by dryflies ·

      In reply to Why work where you aren’t happy?

      Everyone is afraid of change is the main reason they stay in a job that has non technical problems. Get out of that job now if you can, or find a new job and start immediately. I joined the navy in ’72 and 4 years later decided that it seemed like a good career. I never finished that career because I got an assignment from hell. It was awful, I flew onto my ship in the middle of the ocean, as I got off the plane, a guy with a seabag walked up, said “hi, you’re my replacement, hope you make it”, gave me his headset and got on the plane which was taking off again in 10 minutes. From there it went downhill. 6 of the 14 aircraft I was responsible for were waiting for my workcenter to repair them. My crew was morose, we were due into port in two weeks but the maintenance chief asserted, “any workcenter that has a plane awaiting maintenance for them will not get liberty in Thailand”. I pumped my guys up, got to work, and we had only one airplane – waiting parts – by the day before we reached port. I was called in to the maintenance chief and dressed down for making the rest of the work center supervisors look bad. – But my guys got to go ashore! Things like that continued to happen for the next two years. And not just to me. 6 times the sailor of the month was in front of the captain the following month. The maintenance chief practiced a strict policy of “management by yelling at people”. But we were powerless. All we could do is hope we made it through our tour without anything bad in our record. it was that assignment that made me decide to cut my naval career short. You see, in both civilian and military careers you can get good jobs and bad jobs. The difference is, in civilian life you can just walk off of a job where you are being abused. In the military, they will put you in the brig for walking away from a bad situation they call it AWOL. BTW, this is a true story. I made it despite a concerted effort to discredit me when the chief figured out I was not going to re-enlist.

    • #3117044


      by bugboy ·

      In reply to Why work where you aren’t happy?

      I’ve been in my current job for 10 years and have dealt with the same boss for that entire time. He’s the type that never gives a positive but if ANYTHING goes wrong you and everyone in the building will hear about it at the top of his voice as he berates you. I’ve learned to deal with it.
      The company has EXCELLENT benefits, reasonably good pay and a GREAT retirement package.
      I’m in my mid fifties and looking for a job to at least equal my current pay/benefits package would be difficuult at the very least. I know how they say that there is no age discrimination but we all know there is….

      • #3117009

        been there and done that

        by thompsonwj ·

        In reply to Age/benefits

        I have had a couple of jobs where the management technique was rage. I am currently in another one. There is no reason to stay and my resume is out there and I hope something comes up soon. I feel that even though I intended to retire from this job that I have no reason to stay. Fortunately there are jobs near here. I will probably have to commute more but abuse is abuse and I have no need to put up with it.

        I am relatively new to IT but I have had other careers before and I can change again or go back to an old skill if need be.

        Yes, I am scared of losing benefits etc. I, and anyone in my position, cannot stay where it is too unhealthy. In my ever humble opinion.

    • #3116997

      Job security and benefits

      by angry_white_male ·

      In reply to Why work where you aren’t happy?

      For me it’s job security and excellent benefits (public sector)… and apparently I’ve been told I’m on the fast track to a loftier position within the agency. Those outweigh the dislikes: inexperienced department head, politics, great divide between labor and management, public sector pay, etc.

      I’m still young (mid-30’s) so I can (and likely will) move on if the right opportunity presented itself.

    • #3116968

      Just don’t be the last man standing.

      by slatesplace ·

      In reply to Why work where you aren’t happy?

      I have worked many places in my career. I have left for many reasons (one time when I didn’t even have another job). One fact of life seems to be IT in a company will always head south sooner or later. Ever heard these: You guys are just overhead anyway, why do we spend so much money on IT it doesn’t bring in any money for the company…. I have even in board rooms.

      Bottom line is when you feel like things are starting to head south they probably are. So you don’t want to be the last guy standing around to clean up the mess. Start looking as soon as it starts feeling like things are going bad. The problem most of us have is that we are optimists (we have to be to be working in IT), and we keep hoping things will get better. That’s fine, but it doesn’t hurt to be looking while we are waiting. And when I say looking I don’t mean just posting your resume on some board somewhere. Research it like you would the purchase of a new router. Look for companies you want to work for, talk to peers you know and see wht they are hearing about jobs or companies who are hiring, those vendors that always want to “do lunch” or play golf take them up on it and skillfully pump them for information.

      Why don’t most people jump? It’s simple, looking for a job is a job in itself. Don’t leave it to some head hunter or posting board. Go out do the legwork and move on. It amazes me the sacrifice people will make to go back to school to continue their education while they are working, but they won’t put forth the same effort to go find a new job when the old one goes south.

    • #3116944

      I just need that goddamed salary

      by jkameleon ·

      In reply to Why work where you aren’t happy?

      That’s why I work, happy or not.

    • #3116904

      I was there

      by uberg33k50 ·

      In reply to Why work where you aren’t happy?

      I was in one of those jobs for 5 years. Actually for the 1st couple of years it was really good. Then the VP pushed the president out and brought in his wife as COO. It went down from there. This guy was selling software based on antiquated programming language and thought he knew everything. He constantly belittled every employee to every other employee. They cut benefits and took away perks, they even took away free coffee for the employees. I once witnessed this now President of the company, who is 49 years old, literally jumping up and down like a little kid throwing a tantrum screaming at one of the other IT guys because he could not figure out how to print to a specific network printer.

      I began having a sharp pain in my shoulder that radiated down to my fingers in my right hand. I thought I had done something physical until I realized it went away on long weekends and returned when I went back to work. It was the most horible place I have ever worked.

      I was lucky though I was able to convert my part time job to full time and walked out of the other place.My new job is 100% oposite of the last one. Here I have control of my projects, I am appreciated for the work that I do and the benefits and perks are great.

      I wish everyone in a bad situation the very best of luck. There are jobs out there. I had sent out resumes before I came here full time and it was a couple of months before I heard back from some of them but they did contact me. I pray that everyone on this list in a bad situation finds a job like I have now.

    • #3116864

      Hoping things will Change

      by joyr ·

      In reply to Why work where you aren’t happy?

      I have invested 18 years in my current workplace and feel that I should not be the one to have to go. During that time I have had 5 different managers all getting worse as time goes on. Why is it that every new manager feels the need to change things, sweep clean out with the old in with the new? Why fix it if it isn’t broken?

    • #3116843

      Type 2 Diabetes

      by too old for it ·

      In reply to Why work where you aren’t happy?

      … which is likely the only thing I’ll inherit from dad.

      Drug costs on a cash basis are around $300 a month with generics.

      The wife won’t let me just quit and die, so hi-ho, hi-ho, it’s off to work I go.

    • #3137877

      Actually, I didn’t stay!

      by wodenickel ·

      In reply to Why work where you aren’t happy?

      I was a mid level manager at a Fortune 1 or 2 company… yea, them, lol

      anyway, after 16 years I just got tired of all the BS. a contractor was taken out on a stretcher for a suspected heart attack in the middle of a night because the web server he was upgrading wasn’t cooperating in the effort…

      not good!

      so I simply quit. with NO future plan except the front door. happily I am still alive today tho I doubt I would have been had I stayed…

      I took some time off and remembered that I loved photography. So I bought a top digital camera and started a small biz. Today, its still VERY small and I’m not making a “living” from it yet… but I am definitely MUCH happier starving than making almost 6 figures and earning a pre-50 heart attack!

      good luck to you all, my friends!
      ps – I still do a VERY little computer / business consulting for a local non-profit company – and read things like Tech Republic to keep my finger in….


      • #3119475


        by jkameleon ·

        In reply to Actually, I didn’t stay!

        OK- pointy haired bosses, layoffs, stress, burnout, … that’s the downside of IT profession, I can more or less live with.

        What really depresses me about IT are people like you. I’ve been through many boom & bust cycles, and during every bust, some of my collegaues dropped out of IT like you did. No matter what they did afterwards- plumbing, taking photos, peddling dog food, whatever- not a single one of them ever returned into IT when economic tides turned. Not one of them. Ever. Some of them are doing much better financially as well.

        After certain ammount of time & recessions one starts to wander like “What the hell am I still doing here? What’s wrong with me?”

        BTW, some of our Indian colleagues aren’t much different than you, or so it seems

        Businesses there can’t keep employees on the most brain paralysing jobs even for “obscene salaries” of $15000/year (I’m not sure whether it’s before or after tax & medical/pension benefits or not).

    • #3137599

      I’m having a harder time than normal

      by dbucyk ·

      In reply to Why work where you aren’t happy?

      I am a PC and Network+ technician. I’ve tried three years to gain employment in the IT field with no luck.

      I am constantly stuck in getting physical work that is not in my field.

      I’ve had it up to no ends and I have to start my own company in order to get into the field because most employers don’t like self-taught certified technicians.

      If anybody has had similar situations, please let me know. I need to know what to do.

    • #3135948

      get paid better

      by dw_ay ·

      In reply to Why work where you aren’t happy?

      it happened to me in many years ago, although I hate my job but because they paid me much I still stay in even I got couple new jobs but the salaries are lower than this suck job, so I think money is the first reason

    • #3136410

      Second Language Issue

      by ledm ·

      In reply to Why work where you aren’t happy?

      Where I am ( Ottawa, Canada ) most of the tech jobs require bilingual workers. I would happily move on to a different company or into government work if I had the language skills. For now, I’m stuck. Even though I’m not happy I consider myself lucky to have found a place where French is not mandatory.

    • #3136282


      by shrisha.prasad ·

      In reply to Why work where you aren’t happy?

      I have landed in 4 jobs since 3 years
      these changes I made were because of the people around me and the team
      also upon joining newly ,the managers i worked under did not put me into right project and place where my interests fitted well
      as a result of which I got bored after 3 months and started searching elsewhere
      got a few offers but fooled this time also
      The place where I shifted was also a repeat ,worser than the previous ,I got to know on Ist day itself

      But since I switched on just 3 months from prev company i had pressure to stay there ,eventhough the work was not good I resisted .
      I was clubbed with a fresher to work on a project and the project got over well but the credit went to her ,i had contributed very much to that
      After this I started losing interest and searched,got good offers
      surprisingly the manager compared me with that fresher and told that she is better than you
      I quit that to join even a worst company later and now fear to quit because you see 4 jumps in just 3 years !!!

      the company is very reputed.provide all facility but the people around here are very bad and dont assign work at all even though i evince interest

      Now i am in a dilemma as to whether to quit this place to make it a 5th jump in 3 yrs or to stay with blues,cries and burns

    • #3137130


      by placidair ·

      In reply to Why work where you aren’t happy?

      The reality is that no matter where you go SOMETHING is going to get on your nerves. A co-worker, a boss, the noise from the construction up the street. There is no perfect job environment — even if you start your own company you’ll have to deal with personality conflicts somewhere along the way — whether it be a client, or an employee. The issue I suspect is when the problems with a job begin to outweigh the benefits of having that job… medical benefits, ability to pay for rent and food, etc….. when you start thinking a cardboard box in Central Park might be preferable to the job you’ve got, then it’s time to get the heck out. But if you can list benefits vs. issues and the benefits of where you are still win…. well, then it’s time to learn better coping skills rather than eating your gut out with things you cannot change…. and keep your resume up to date.

    • #3117505

      Boss dick head

      by schumi75 ·

      In reply to Why work where you aren’t happy?

      The problem is that the boss only take care the commercial part of our work, than doesn’t understand about technical problems. So, when he says he knows something, is sure he doesn’t know anything.


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