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  • #2256328

    Windows Vista


    by mike-b ·

    I know everyone relies on MS for advertising revenue, but does anyone realy think that Vista is not one of the final nails in Microsoft’s coffin?
    The OS is fraught with compatibility issues and is rediculously resours intensive and doesn’t really offer anything more then XP.
    I believe that NOvell and Linux Susie will start taking a much bigger market share of the enterprise market. More third party developers are now working on Liux versions of there software.
    If Microsoft wants its OS to survive the long run they better start stripping down Vista or reviving XP with improvemnts under a different name and for less money.
    Don’t get me wrong, I like alot of what Microsoft has but they are going in the wrong direction and by attempting to force it down our throats when there are strong alternative on the horizon is stupid.

All Comments

  • Author
    • #2532934

      Vista shortcomings not the end….

      by wizjam ·

      In reply to Windows Vista

      I think you, and many others may be missing something here. Of course Vista has its shortcomings, just like every Microsoft OS before it, and it?s no surprise that it is not the ultimate OS some might have hoped.
      But, you are sadly mistaken if you think Microsoft has ?put a final nail in its coffin?and is going to be forced out of the market. You see, Gates and company are very savvy, and they always leave a gap between what could be and what is in their systems; and that leaves a huge billion dollar market available for the IT community to make Microsoft support products. Our company has AD tools, print management products, server protection and backup tools, automation tools, deployment tools, and many more to support our Microsoft systems, all developed and sold by other vendors.
      Could they have put an anti-virus into Vista, a better defragger, a desktop manager, etc? Of course they could, but they won?t; which allows the cottage industries a piece of the IT business, and prevents anti -trust and infringement lawsuits. So we?ll have them to bash for a long time to come!

    • #2534647

      nothing new.. to some degree

      by neon samurai ·

      In reply to Windows Vista

      When win 3.0 came out, they had to leverage Solitare to get it on desktops over native Dos.

      When win 3.1 came along, I belive the profit driver was the underlying Dos included on the machine although it came setup to run the win GUI for general use.

      win95 had to fight against Dos/Win3.11

      win98 had to fight against win95

      winME (bahahaha.. just included it for humour)

      winNT/XP are still fighting against old win98 installs and to a degree, winXP is fighting winNT and 2k installs.

      – New product RCs make there way into the news
      – New product version is ready for beta testing by the first six months of public sales
      – Much fanfair and marketing expensed during release of new version
      – New product enters the market competing against it’s own older version
      – New product eventually replaces older version with “insentives” from Redmond
      – Reset the wheel, wait for next version RC’s to start making news.

    • #2534364

      Won’t go over night!

      by mike-b ·

      In reply to Windows Vista

      Microsoft is not going to go overnight but they will continue to loose market share be cause it all comes down to time and money. If a company can spend less money and time on a Linux workstation and server it will eventually matriculate to that platform.

      Also the majority of IT personnel are not looking for the perfect workstation. They are looking for less headaches.

      I have no doubt MS will be around for a long time but I hear the chink chink of LINUX steadily getting louder!!

      • #2528320

        You said …

        by m wagner ·

        In reply to Won’t go over night!

        “If a company can spend less money and time on a Linux workstation and server it will eventually matriculate to that platform.”

        But, from a TCO perspective, it is still most costly to take care of desktop Linux over a 3-to-5 year lifecycle than it is to take care of Windows. This is mainly true because UNIX/Linux savvy people cost more to hire than Windows savvy people.

        • #2599982

          Savvy people always cost more

          by hlhowell9 ·

          In reply to You said …

          If you only hire savvy windows folks, they cost more too. There are also a lot more windows folks out there, and supply and demand works for workers as well as products.

          Eventually as more and more people pick up Linux, those prices will come down for Linux folks and at the same time, windows workers will receive a boost in pay as the migration gets into full swing.

          Free market rules.

          Les H

    • #2534334

      I may be going against the grain here..

      by shellbot ·

      In reply to Windows Vista

      but what if Microsoft and its products disappeard tomorrow?

      Everyone would have to find something else to b1tch about..I’d put money on Linux being the most favored one to complain about..

      Maybe you don’t like thier products..or thier way of doing business..fair enough..then don’t use MS products.

      I may complain in jest about my little problems with MS, however, if I was told my products were going to be taken away from me tomorrow, i’d be in a right state.

      I’m from the school of: “Windows revolutioned the PC for the little people”
      If i had to start using DOS full time again, i’d give up the game.

      In 5 years time people will be saying the same thing about the newest OS to come along..”oh its not as good as Vista..blah blah blah”

      Now, I do not want Vista right now..give it a year or 2..I’m going to purchase a laptop soon, and i insist it come with XP Pro..having said that, the last PC i bought I insisted it had Win2000..
      Whats the chances in 3 years when i getting another new machine i insist on getting Vista..?

      Microsoft will survive..untill someone makes something better, simpler & prettier.

      Face it people..MS looks at its user base..(you know the people that read the penut packet which says “Allergy warning: May contain nuts”)..and it develops accordingly.

      I do admit I don’t like new products being forced upon me, wise it makes sense for them. And hey, news flash..its a business..not a charity for us OS purchasers to get what we want..

      🙂 Happy computing!

      • #2528289

        It would just mean some things

        by jackie40d1 ·

        In reply to I may be going against the grain here..

        It would just change the way things got done and just slow things up a bit but I would like to see MS come out with something which did NOT HAVE giant holes in the code . . I think they have a buch of programers doing a part here and a part there . . and just patch them together for the next O/S !

        • #2526318

          Dream on

          by gunga55 ·

          In reply to It would just mean some things

          They are still patching 2000 and its been out 7+ years and it was the best out of box platform they ever made

    • #2534814

      Windows Vista

      by dmhd ·

      In reply to Windows Vista

      Microsoft has stepped over the line, building broad-based resentment for its practices and application of its business strategy(?) . It would appear that the wizards of Redmond are fast approaching the fabled goose with a meat axe !!

      • #2528285

        Giants can come tubbling down

        by mike-b ·

        In reply to Windows Vista

        The mighty US automotive industry is now at Toyota’s feet and Toyota didn’t get where it is by using Microsoft’s stategy.

        • #2532162

          Thats exactly what Toyota did

          by rndmacts ·

          In reply to Giants can come tubbling down

          Toyota did exactly as MS has done in the past and that is give the consumer what they want. Linux will never be a success until it cracks the home market, and both MS and Apple keep raising the bar for entry. When Linux gives me a true multi-media experience including games, then it is not ready for the home computer. Even in business, it lacks the finesse to really be accepted, users aren’t happy to be using something that they are not familiar with and it costs more to place on the desktop because of the problems involved in installing software.

          The old challenge that Linux was virus free is about to disappear because it is harder to beat Vista, so where will these script kiddies turn to, but Linux and its open source. The fact is Linux was never virus free, but why write to an OS that won’t get you any press. Linux was also never bug free either in fact according to bugtrax it had more bugs than windows any day, just a bug in Windows was news, but a bug in Linux only affected techies and zealots.

          I like my shiny Vista desktop and I didn’t have to jump through hoops to achieve it. Most Linux desktops are dull in comparison, and I know someone will point out that there are shiny interfaces for Linux, but not right out of the box there aren’t.

          See that is why Toyota is like MS, cost of ownership is straightforward, you can buy the basic internal combustion model or get the shiny hybrid fuelled car. GM, Ford and Chrysler are all looking at alternate fuel systems where the infrastructure to support them doesn’t exist yet and to put it in place will be costly. Much like Linux and to some extent Apple.

        • #2599977

          Have you looked at Linux lately?

          by hlhowell9 ·

          In reply to Thats exactly what Toyota did

          Have you tried Fedora 6 or 7, or Centos?
          Their interface, setup and controls are simple. And they have SeLinux, which is more secure than anything that can even be put on Windows at this time.

          These are the ones I am familiar with, but I don’t have time to look at too many. Tons of servers and lots of ISP’s use Linux servers already. Even Microsoft has many ISP’s supporting their Distro’s via Linux servers. At one time they used Linux servers in-house and had to admit that in court.

          The desktop is getting better and better on Linux, and in some ways is already better than windows has been. IMHO, anyway.

          Les H

    • #2528324

      You’re kidding, right?

      by m wagner ·

      In reply to Windows Vista

      I’ve been a regualr Windows users since Windows 2.11 (1987) and I can say with confidence that Windows Vista is the most stable and compatible ‘out-ofthe-box’ version yet! Very few tings are incompatible and those that are fail because Microsoft has decided to enforce the same sound programming practices it established when it established Windows XP certification standards. If it was certified to run under XP, it will run under Vista!

      Linux is already a big player in the machine room and it can be on the consumer desktop if OEMs and Linux vendors decide to support it on the consumer desktop. That said, don’t assume that any new found success for Linux will knock Windows out of the top spot any time soon. Just ask Apple.

      • #2528284

        Well Apple never had a chance to

        by jackie40d1 ·

        In reply to You’re kidding, right?

        And Linux is getting so easy to install its easier than WINDOWS and faster . . I installed Linux 2007 in a Intel Celeron 2.7 gigahertz CPU with 512 megs DDR ram and loaded it 6 CD’s of stuff in under 45 minutes . . Just 1 CD of windows 2000 Pro takes that . . And I added everything and god to the hard drive in the Linux machine put a X by EVERYTHING and clicked start ! And that was using OLD CD Roms like maybe 24 x speed . .

        • #2527213

          Apple had no chance???

          by m wagner ·

          In reply to Well Apple never had a chance to

          In 1984, Apple was the clear leader in GUI technology. (Except for Xerox PARC.) Windows 1.0 was a crude character-based product by comparison. It was not pre-installed and it was running under DOS.

          Apple had their chance but they chose to keep their prices high and their customer-base exclusive. Apple had a CLEARLY superior product up until Windows 3.0 finally began to catch up in 1990. It would take until Windows 2000 shipped before Microsoft could claim technical equivalence to Macintosh. Apple had their chance for market dominance and they blew it.

          Today, there is rough parity between all three (actually four, counting UNIX) platforms. Microsoft’s dominance is no accident.

        • #2599964

          Apple PWNED the market, and lost it.

          by locrian_lyric ·

          In reply to Apple had no chance???

          I saw a MAJOR insurance carrier intall Macs, then later throw every last one out and replace them with IBMs running windows.


          like you said, apple CHOSE to keep the cost per unit up, made you take your apple to an AUTHORIZED apple dealer for repairs, would only uprgrade your system if you returned your old parts to them, and made support a general nightmare.

          So, the inferior technology won because.

          1)It was cheaper
          2)It was easier to support
          3)Changes could be made in-house
          4)Repairs could be made in-house
          5)Old hardware could be retained for emergency repairs to systems
          6)No having to haul hardware offsite.

      • #2528253

        try again

        by mike-b ·

        In reply to You’re kidding, right?

        What world are you in, make beleive! It may be stable but it is slower than watching grass grown and it is frought with incompatibility and not backward compatible. You obviously don’t deal with integrationon a daily basis. Try working with Citrix client, PACs systems or voice recognition programs in the medical industry.

        PS Microsoft developed Certificaiton to make money from both ends. VARs, Technicians,Integrators, White box manufacturers loose there shirts supporting Windows. Yes having Certificaitons may qualify you for a better job with a large coporation, if they haven’t already outsourced to India, Brazil or brought in oversees help and given them green cards.

        • #2528239

          Hahaha come down and

          by jackie40d1 ·

          In reply to try again

          And help us protest the Bank Of America for giving Credit cards to those “ILLEGAL” Aliens plus the bank accounts ( WITH NO SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBER ) just the card which the FBI says is NOT an ID of any kind ! The Matricula card which the Mexican counsel gives out but the Mexican government does not recognise but BOA does . .

      • #2528252

        try again

        by mike-b ·

        In reply to You’re kidding, right?

        What world are you in, make beleive! It may be stable but it is slower than watching grass grown and it is frought with incompatibility and not backward compatible. You obviously don’t deal with integrationon a daily basis. Try working with Citrix client, PACs systems or voice recognition programs in the medical industry.

        PS Microsoft developed Certificaiton to make money from both ends. VARs, Technicians,Integrators, White box manufacturers loose there shirts supporting Windows. Yes having Certificaitons may qualify you for a better job with a large coporation, if they haven’t already outsourced to India, Brazil or brought in oversees help and given them green cards.

      • #2528214


        by us is ! europe-thankgod! ·

        In reply to You’re kidding, right?

        Vista is great. Loaded the basic version on a machine that barely rand XP – worked just fine. I’m running Aero at home and it’s great, but not necessariy. It is their best version yet.
        BTW tried to load 2 Distros of linux on a 1.2 Gig Pentium 4 512 Mem Had problems from day one. Thank God I’m in IT. If this was a user they would through it out the Window. Linux has a LOOOOOOOONNNNNNNGGGGGGG way to go and Grow up to be a “real” OS. Not 10 variations with everyone having little sandboxes to play in or “not”

        • #2527185

          Well I hope your “Vista” does not crash

          by jackie40d1 ·

          In reply to AMEN!

          From what I have heard and read you get to buy it again to install it when it crashes . .
          I have told some people the same and waited for the CRASH to occur; ahummmm have sold 3 Linux based computers now . . and maybe convert a Laptop for LaVonda after she see’s the stuff which comes with Linspire 5.0

        • #2527154

          Odd …

          by m wagner ·

          In reply to Well I hope your “Vista” does not crash

          … I loaded Vista the first time last summer under the public beta. I re-installed each time a new release came out and now I have four Vista machines running production code. Not one crash! And, despite what you’ve heard, MS is extremely helpful if you want to transfer your Vista license to a different machine.

          If you sell Linux, more power to you, but the fact that MS continues to enjoy over 90% of the market wiht MacOSX and Linux sharing the rest, consumers have spoken.

        • #2599973

          You should check your numbers.

          by hlhowell9 ·

          In reply to Odd …

          Macs have a bit of the market, and Linux is now on 16% of desktops world wide. If Microsoft will stop their FUD compaign and either sue or give it up, the battle will proceed on equal footing. But if you cannot innovate, litigate.

          Les H

        • #2526585

          Running 24X7 for 3 months (R2 and RTM)

          by us is ! europe-thankgod! ·

          In reply to Well I hope your “Vista” does not crash

          Have not had a problem, 10X’s more stable then my Suse linx. I even built my machine own machine. I didn’t buy it…so it’s not like it’s something from Dell. For those with the only took me 45 to install. The 5 cds I needed for Suse took me 1.5 hours to install, and failed on the last one – even thought the CD was marked as OK. Red Hat installed would not load. OH Then I had to go command line (OMG I’m back to my DOS programming days) to worry about fixing. Went back Suse…new CD OK Bought VIsta, Installed. Up running.

        • #2526354

          What kinda computer did you build ?

          by jackie40d1 ·

          In reply to Running 24X7 for 3 months (R2 and RTM)

          Thats a long time to install anything even windows . . I have installed Linux 2007 with 6 CD’s in under 45 minutes and checked every box of stuff to be added to the computer but it had 1 gig of PC-3200 DDR but used a OLD CD maybe 24 x speed also had a Intel Celeron 2.8 gigahertz 478 pin CPU for pumping stuff into the hard drive ( old 40 gig one ) ( it was stuff taken out of old computer and added to newer computer case and motherboard CPU and Memory ) Then add the O/S and ready to go out the door . . Even Linspire 5.0 is faster than that and its got tons of stuff it adds to the hard drive

      • #2528198

        You miss out on many things of this OS

        by bytlan ·

        In reply to You’re kidding, right?

        I would rate Vista as right next to the worst Windows ME. Yes, I know Windows 2.11 and every version since to include that famous home version BOB. I purchased a new box with Vista. It is such a resource pig that the box did finally crash on 512k base system. The over all operating speed was slower productivity then my 6 year old notebook. The amount of machine hangs and stops due to the write swaps to the hard drive (SATA) were so heavy and intence the Pentium box would loose focus of the application in its code that originated the swap. “It would loose focus so intently that the applications went into complete non responcive failures of the application!” Once that happened the OS became more and more unstable. I installed a gig of memmory but it was to late. I started to have continuous DEP lock downs after that. Oh, infact the severity of the loss of focus went into even the adminstrations rights as I had to from time and time again reapply Ownership rights and Adminstrative rights to the files and folders I created as an administrator logon. It carried itself out to the complete in ability to do any sort of system recovery date stuff. IE Warranty return in less then 35 days. If it can not handle its base memory requirements then how do you think its going to handle its full memory over the year of use? I have no faith in it any more. I did my software install emulations set to be run at Windows XP release 2 if you know how to find that. It failed at every turn. So are you kidding me?

        • #2527189

          Six-year-old notebook? No wonder!

          by m wagner ·

          In reply to You miss out on many things of this OS

          It is unrealistic to expect that Vista is going to run well on any machine over three years old.

          I too installed Vista on my now-seven-year-old Dell (866MHz, 512MB of PC133 RAM) — it works but it was dog-slow.

          Take that same Vista code and install it on a 3.2 GHz Celeron D with 512MB of 533MHz DDR2 RAM and performance is every bit as well as Windows XP SP2.

        • #2527097

          Find a copy of it

          by jackie40d1 ·

          In reply to You miss out on many things of this OS

          Find a copy of XP and get the SP 1 and 2 then re install it . . almost only way back in unless you had the 6 disk set used for crashes
          There is a Emergency set of disks you should have when you run either Win 2 K or Win XP
          they help re bulid stuff and let you back in . .

        • #2526592

          Hardware or Software problems

          by exileblue ·

          In reply to You miss out on many things of this OS

          I would certainly agree with your statements if these were my experiences, however, they’re not. Been using M$ since 3.11 – ‘cept Win98ME, guess I was lucky – and currently have Vista as my daily MC now. Have been using beta/Ultimate (x64) for ~ 8 months and have never had a crash, ‘though plenty of driver issues. I’ve had one DEP issue, with the Logitech G15 keyboard, which I resolved by excluding in the exceptions list, but, this appears to be a Logitech problem and not a Vista issue. All my HD’s are WD SATA II’s and they work flawlessly, however, I’ve had hair-pulling raging moments (sic) with SATA Maxtors under XP Pro SP2 – both as stand alone and RAID. Resolved these issues with a HAMMER and switched to WD – problem cured 🙂

    • #2528318

      Vista is not Longhorn!

      by gazzerjay ·

      In reply to Windows Vista

      LONGHORN is the OS that we were promised, but some of the key elements were removed, ie WinFS, for reasons best known to Microsoft (and guessed at by Joe Public)
      The decision to upgrade to Vista would be easy IF the excluded technologies were included. As it is, Vista seems to me to be Windows XP SP3, with extra security packs, and as such, is an improvement on XP SP2. As for me, I believe that upgrading to Vista will only be worthwhile when the following points have been met:
      1) Addition of the missing technologies mentioned at the ‘Longhorn’ announcement.
      2) Appropriate pricing of the software, not the grossly over inflated prices currently charged for sub-standard products – ($700 for Ultimate in the UK)
      3) Microsoft should acknowledge the input by all of the unpaid testers of their software (a.k.a. the Vista using public!)

      • #2527200

        In many respects, you are correct …

        by m wagner ·

        In reply to Vista is not Longhorn!

        … that Vista is basically a “new & improved” XP — with AERO being the only major “look & feel” change. As such, there is no compelling reason for anyone to upgrade until they buy their next computer.

        But, unlike most software vendors in Microsoft’s position, MS recognized that they needed a ground-up re-write to move forward and that’s what they did. Vista is a solid OS. Is it better than Windows XP was the day it shipped? Yes. Will it get better in the next six months? Yes. Enough said.

    • #2528291

      I for one agree !

      by jackie40d1 ·

      In reply to Windows Vista

      Seems the Previous Windows System gets 3 years old and gets dropped as something to support
      Windows 2000 Pro is next to get Axed ! ! Last upgrade I got for W2k is over 6 months ago looking at the files out on Drive D: It is why I am slowly moving everything to Linux ( my Flavor is Xandros Pro ) as I have a lot of junk I got to run and be able to do it in windows . . or a windows type of a file as there is no Linux version of the file .. or program which does the same . . So I got to add Code Weavers Pro to my Linux to get by . . Wish some software people would see that Linux is the next O/S to be and get busy making stuff for Linux . .

      • #2528227

        When will people change?

        by endoscopy ·

        In reply to I for one agree !

        When someone asks me what operating system to get my first question is what applications will they run and who they have to be compatible with. Too many people are tied to MS by the must have application that only run on MS Windows. Vista is giving some people heartburn in this area. If this trend continues then this will force some people to go to alternative applications and then they can consider non MS applications.

        My wife does Medical Transcription at home and she must use certain programs to be compatible with the group she works with. They only run on Windows XP at the moment. Vista is out of the question at this time.

        If this doesn’t change then we are forced to stay with XP and keep looking for alternative software that is compatible with what we have. If that is Apple or Linux that is where we will go.

        This is where the rubber hits the road for OS decisions. There are a lot of special software packages in this situation. Either the makers will upgrade to Vista compatibility or not. Then we get to pay for upgraded software to move to an expensive OS. If not then we use whatever OS they are compliant with.

        A lot of people are in this situation.

        • #2528217

          Reality Check 90% of the computers

          by us is ! europe-thankgod! ·

          In reply to When will people change?

          Same assinine discussion about Apple. Linux for one comes is SOOOOOO many “flavors” that it’s too confusing, all of them “better” than the other. And talk about compatibility problems HELLO. Take Linux and make is Windows, the community was complaning about the Vista selections, now lets look at the linux Distros. Same childish bitching about XP, now look at it. 5 years from now Vista will be the primary, and you “children” will be still playing with the Linux Toys you use now. Apple – a toy. Then when all of the neanderthal virus/trojan/spam/ers start tarketing your systems, we will see how well you hold up to the reality of the broad public views. Or take your toy and go home crying.

        • #2527343

          Check your reality

          by endoscopy ·

          In reply to Reality Check 90% of the computers

          This thread is about Vista and what would cause people and enterprises to go elsewhere. I work with MS, Apple, and *nix. I worked with many others in the past. Each has it pros and cons. There are some people still running DOS because they can’t get an application to do what the one they have does.

          In the early 90’s I was in field service. A customer had an old Philco computer and had a PDP-11 34 attached to it to act as a disk drive. This was because they had an engineering application they found impossible to replace. This is an extreme example but is a major problem that companies and people have.

          Vista seems to be harsher than previous generations about running old programs even with compatibility mode. At present my wife is locked out of Vista because of this. IF it runs fine on XP doesn’t mean it will run on Vista. Vista is also much harsher about drivers for older hardware like printers.

          Buy a new system with all new hardware and software that is compliant, fine. By a new computer with Vista and try to integrate older essential software and hardware, uh oh. If newer software isn’t available guess what goes.

        • #2527219

          Usually the company that writes it…

          by us is ! europe-thankgod! ·

          In reply to Check your reality

          There are issues I agree and there are issues with every version of MS and Apple and even bigger issues with Linux, like can they freakin aggree on a distro..sheesh. But the model T was a good car for the time. However, society required more and the love affair with the car move it forward but no one drives original model Ts. I have software that I have installed on my home built computer that goes back to 98 and it works just fine in Vista. Of course there was some that needed DOS. So I left the comfort zone and discovered I had lots of options. I just think the Linux and Apple people that keep comparing to Vista need to take a reality check. If you like XP stay with XP, and wait. However, based on your example, it won’t be long until you run out of time and/or support. I would be looking for alternatives or new processes. Just like we do in the corporate world.

        • #2527131

          XP until its done

          by mike-b ·

          In reply to Usually the company that writes it…

          I think everone should stay with XP for as long as they can. Hopefully by then we will have more alternatives. Right now Vista is not a good choice.

        • #2526588

          Why ?

          by exileblue ·

          In reply to XP until its done

          Like to expand on your statement ? Is it TCO, software issues, your personal choice, what ?

        • #2526452

          For now, maybe, but not “for as long as you can” …

          by m wagner ·

          In reply to XP until its done

          No, there is no compelling reason to upgrade to Vista from XP but there is no reason to fear moving to Vista either.

          Bottom line, wait until you need a new machine, then when considering Vista determine if you have any mission-critical applications which will not run under Vista. If they won’t, then stay with XP until they do — or until you find a suitable alternative application which will run under whatever other operating system you want — be it Vista or Linux or UNIX.

        • #2526384

          Why – ?

          by us is ! europe-thankgod! ·

          In reply to XP until its done

          I disagree. I have been using Vista (RC1) since Oct. And then purchased Ultimate. It’s great, fast very, very stable. And my Wife who could care-less, loves it. And I have a home built computer. So from my experience it has all been very,very,very positive.

        • #2526379

          MWagner makes a good point.

          by us is ! europe-thankgod! ·

          In reply to XP until its done

          Well put…

        • #2527090

          Thats why People will come to Linux

          by jackie40d1 ·

          In reply to Check your reality

          They will get totally P-O’ed and get something which is cheaper and runs with less hassles
          plus have a better security . . I got 5 people now on Linux and they like it went from 3 to 5 over night hummmmmmm and you like the MS stuff
          Ok you got it I can run MS stuff on linux using Code Weavers Pro got the entire MS XP Office running inside of Linux 2007 . .

        • #2526590

          That’s cool pretty nice…think big

          by us is ! europe-thankgod! ·

          In reply to Thats why People will come to Linux

          OK, that’s nice. Now pick from the 10-15 distro’s and all of the fighting as who is standard. Heck the big boys are fighting over who is standard. Then you have drivers, and hardware issues, and oh, that free version is no longer supported (yes MS even does that too)…good luck you will need it. When just one of above starts to fail, those 5 people will be knocking on your door for support. Oh I have a soccer game with my kid…not helping the saps I sent to Linux.

        • #2526387

          Realistically, there are only two or three distributions …

          by m wagner ·

          In reply to That’s cool pretty nice…think big

          … that will be players in the enterprise. They are RHEL and SUSE and Ubuntu. Whether Ubuntu is displaced by someone else later remains to be seen.

          Novell is in a unique position in being virtually free from litigation risk (as long as their UNIX ownership claims are upheld) and Red Hat has the market momentum and pocket deep enough to survive most litigation.

        • #2526365

          SAPS ?

          by jackie40d1 ·

          In reply to That’s cool pretty nice…think big

          I have been there for PEOPLE WHOM use windows too ! So don’t give me the stuff about SAPS I sent to Linux ! 1 is a complete novice so I know I get to help him do anything beyond typing a letter of printing it . . You should go read my Profile . .
          I use Linux also I have to use windows right now till I make 2 drivers for 2 items . . I run in windows . . I have to break down and spend $30.00 for a book on how to make drivers in Linux . . Since a company does not want to make one. . , YET !

        • #2526583

          Forgot to tell you

          by us is ! europe-thankgod! ·

          In reply to Thats why People will come to Linux

          I build my own machines. Have tried to install Suse and RedHat. Suse passed my CDs and failed on CRC checked. OK It next through me into a command line to fix. Now I have been developing code web, c, c++, C# VB etc. since 1983 and working since 1987. I have not had to deal with a command line to fix a problem on a computer in a long time. It’s fun…but I was giving this to 5 people and it started doing that. Well they would hang me. When Linux matures and is as easy to install as XP or Vista and has the same support. Then you have something. Until then…it’s a nich market. BTW that Suse Redhat installation I was doing for two family members with little money. They gave up because it was “klugdy” and bought XP have been happy ever since. I’m running them as toys to keep and eye on linux and some if’s nice tools. YOu never no in 15 years it may be mainstream and I will be ready. Of course, that is if you pick Suse, or Redhat or….

        • #2526450

          Not necessarily …

          by m wagner ·

          In reply to Thats why People will come to Linux

          If your mission-critical XP applications won’t run under Vista, more likely than not they won’t run under Wine either. if there is no Vista port for these applictions, there won’t be a Linux port either. Might as well stay with XP.

        • #2526130

          Thats why People will come to Linux

          by guy ·

          In reply to Thats why People will come to Linux

          your post just answered why Linux will never be more than a hobbyist os.

          who wants to run software with VM software no one but someone who will not understand most companies want software that work they want software that has tech support.

          as does the end user who does not want to call a tech to recompile the kernel when there is a major update.

          don’t get me wrong i’m a geek and i have a distro of linux my self but is it practical.

          to have it on every desktop first they would have to find a distro that every computer manufactur would use..

          then the whole hardware manufacturing world would have to write drivers for that distro..

          you see where i am going with this it’s the Linux community thats keeping it as a nich market..

          and i could just see my guys right now we have a problem that we can’t fix and we have to post it on the forums and wait and hope someone has a fix for it…

          no thank you

        • #2532182

          Really ?

          by jackie40d1 ·

          In reply to Thats why People will come to Linux

          I am glad you like to buy cars which need the tires replaced EVERY MONTH or the Carb worked on at least every other month and then the windshield wippers replaced once a week . .
          Hey I got some land over here in Arizona ! River front property . . Kinda rocky and has some sand on it and a few dried out logs here and there but good land . . hehehehe

        • #2531886

          If your guys cannot support Linux…

          by techexec2 ·

          In reply to Thats why People will come to Linux

          With all due respect (and this is no taunt), if your guys cannot support Linux without having to [i]”…post it on the forums and wait and hope someone has a fix for it…”[/i], then your guys are not ready to provide Linux customer support right now. Leave that to professional Linux firms such as RedHat or Novell.

          [b][i]”…who wants to run software with VM software[?]…”[/i][/b]

          Red herring… Running MS Office in a VM is an [u]option[/u]. I think the better choice would be to run OpenOffice (a native Linux office suite). That’s what I’m doing, and I’ve been using MS Office since 1992.

          [b][i]”…Linux will never be more than a hobbyist os…”[/i][/b]

          Tell that to the governments and companies that are switching to Linux servers and desktops. Tell that to the people who are receiving tens of thousands of coupons from Microsoft for Novell Enterprise Linux (1A)(1B). Tell that to people who work at this company (2). Tell that to the people working in the Munich city government (3). Tell that to the people in Extremadura, Spain (4). Tell that to people at HSBC (5). Tell that to people in working in the French government (6). There are many other examples.

          [b][i]”…as does the end user who does not want to call a tech to recompile the kernel when there is a major update…”[/i][/b]

          Red herring… End users do not have to call a tech to recompile the kernel when there is a major update.

          [b][i]”…then the whole hardware manufacturing world would have to write drivers for that distro…”[/i][/b]

          Red herring… It is not necessary for a hardware manufacturer to produce a driver for each Linux distro, just for Linux itself.

          [b]Professional Linux firms produce professional results[/b]

          Professional Linux firms like RedHat or Novell offer a desktop Linux that is practical for end-users and is fully supported. If a non-technical end-user wants to run Linux, that is where he should go. Obviously, he should not download a distro himself, or recompile the kernel, or any such thing.

          Most people should buy their cars from a professional car maker like GM, Ford, or Toyota (et al). They should not order parts and build their own car.

          You’re showing a lot of ignorance and telling false stories. You really should do some research before you go around posting about Linux again.


          (1A) Microsoft Hands Out 16,000 SUSE Linux Subscriptions

          (1B) Microsoft and Novell Announce Broad Collaboration on Windows and Linux Interoperability and Support

          (2) Rockin’ on without Microsoft

          (3) Debian wins Munich Linux deal (14,000 desktops)

          (4) Forget Munich’s Linux Migration, It’s Already Done by Extremadura (80,000 desktops)

          (5) HSBC to Standardize on Novell’s SUSE Linux

          (6) The French Say Au Revoir to Microsoft Software

          edit: typo

        • #2526001

          Yes but…

          by us is ! europe-thankgod! ·

          In reply to Thats why People will come to Linux

          One if the French are using is nothing I would tell too many people. They will stop using it hahahahaha.

          Very good facts, well researched and well thought out. However, your examples support Corporations/Offices etc. and tech people using the OS with a support staff. I play with it and use in the event it starts to hit mainstream. However if I were to compare it to a Vista install…well if falls very short of what I view as “mainstream” and I used a commercial version. Despite the intentions and the research the software is viewed as enthusiasts and hobbyists and some corporations and webservers. And will be for sometime. While momentum has slowed, it still moving based on your research. But your research also supports the perceptions as well. Well done.

        • #2525976

          sd163gm: Thanks. Here’s an “escape from Windows” for you…

          by techexec2 ·

          In reply to Thats why People will come to Linux

          As a home user, the “escape from Windows” might be a Macintosh instead of Linux. The new MacOS X is based on BSD Unix, a close cousin of Linux. My next notebook will very likely be a MacBook. For end users, Macintosh is an outstanding computer that will give you much less grief than a Windows computer will. And, you can even dual-boot your Intel CPU-based Macintosh with Windows itself, or run Windows in a VM.

          An exception: If you want to run Windows-based games that are not available on Macintosh, the Mac might not be for you if you have one computer at home. But, you could run two computers, one being a Mac. This also has the advantage of separating the play/kids computer from the serious adult one. And, I highly recommend such a thing.

          P.S. I had similar thoughts about mentioning the French! How funny! :^0

        • #2599956


          by hlhowell9 ·

          In reply to Thats why People will come to Linux

          I program on 9 OS’s, in 13 languages, I write test programs for IC’s, and I use and recommend Linux. What are your qualifications that entitle you to refer to me, and my friends as SAPS?

          PS, I am also currently working in VR. Have you done anything in VR? I have also written transportable code for Windows, Linux, Unix, and RTOS, as well as program translators from system to system and language to language. Care to match credentials?

          Regards (or perhaps not)
          Les H

        • #2527193

          May I invite you to

          by jackie40d1 ·

          In reply to Reality Check 90% of the computers

          There is a web site
          and read about the major versions of Linux !
          I have 6 of them for installing on Peoples Computers . . and the cost was less than Windows “Vista” So I am set and have sold 3 computers which are LINUX based right now with Code Weavers so they can open their windows files with MS XP office . . and all of its programs . . What else do they want ? and will most likely add a Laptop to that list shortly and add Linspire to it so she can dial up the service she wants to . . has like 7 or 8 ISP’s to dial up to installed with it . . and has a GIANT HELP file

        • #2527208

          Yeah thats righ !

          by jackie40d1 ·

          In reply to When will people change?

          I would go totally to Linux IF I could get 2 items to work inside of Linux !
          1 Verizon USB720 Broad band Modem (USB item)
          2 ADS tech DVD Express ( USB item )
          When I get these two working I am gone to Linux completely never to return to windows as I got what ever windows programs running inside of some version of Linux with Code Weavers Pro I need running . . working with Xandros now as at least it see’s both items !

        • #2531999

          That’s great

          by us is ! europe-thankgod! ·

          In reply to Yeah thats righ !

          That’s great and the tech world needs that. But for anytime in the near future it’s hobbyist/enthusiast software. It’s just not ready for prime time and when it is it will be just as expensive, and just as many criticisms as MS and will then be targeted by Neanderthal malware writers.

        • #2527196

          Yep. Application availability is the key. Every time …

          by m wagner ·

          In reply to When will people change?

          … a new OS comes out, bugs in third-party applications lead to problems. The ISV must decide when to fix their product to be compatible with the new OS. Wait too long and they’re toast. At one time WordPerfect was the king of word processors but they waited too long to port their product to Windows 3.0 and guess what, MS Word swamped them. The same thing happened to Lotus 1-2-3. These companies no longer dominate.

        • #2526376


          by us is ! europe-thankgod! ·

          In reply to Yep. Application availability is the key. Every time …

          Nice observation.

    • #2528218

      What one company is doing

      by rs99 ·

      In reply to Windows Vista

      We can’t afford to upgrade our company computers to Vista. We would need new hardware to handle its bloated code, buy new licenses, deal with all the bugs, security updates, etc. And for what? Nothing of value to a corporation. The IT world is close to a tipping point over Windows as the one, or primary, OS for business. Think of the evidence: MS is years late delivering Vista and the final version lacks key features originally promised; Gates and Balmer are practically panicking and badmouthing Linux and Mac; then they extended the support for XP for 7 years! Big corporate users must have SCREAMED at them when they saw Vista, so MS had to back off dropping XP pro support. We will, as I think others will, set up virtual machines that run Linux for email, internet, word processing and spreadsheet, and use Windows XP when necessary for applications that run only on XP. In 7 years we’ll look at the situation again. We’ve already changed all servers to Linux.

      • #2528215

        We Tried…we were screwed

        by us is ! europe-thankgod! ·

        In reply to What one company is doing

        We tried that 1600 users – you guys are sooooo screwed – good luck you will need it. The guy that made that decision here – well, he’s working for someone else now – needless to say. TCO was throug the roof.

      • #2527409

        same old thing

        by shellbot ·

        In reply to What one company is doing

        everyone screams everytime a new OS comes out..
        no one is going to switch..
        no companies will pay the cost..
        yadda yadda yadda..
        but yet somehow MS still thrives and if they weren’t making money from the OS do you think they’d bother with it??

        the world goes on, those who do not go with it get left behind eventually.

        Soone enough these companies will need more software or “solutions” which will require Vista and they’ll run out and buy it just like everyone else..

        • #2527229

          NOT ME !

          by jackie40d1 ·

          In reply to same old thing

          Buy “Vista” like my pistol over my dead body will I get it ! And I tell people NOT to get it yet . . Plus I have sold a few Linux based machines already and it will do a lot of the stuff they need done . .

        • #2527212


          by shellbot ·

          In reply to NOT ME !

          i’m not buying it yet either..i’ll wait for SP1 then maybe..

          however, i not going to go on like the world is ending because MS has a new OS..

          so whats the story with the rumours of a Google OS.? Would give us all something new to b1tch about i guess..

          but for the time being..I just recieved my complimentary Home Edition in the post today..the disc is so pretty and shiney..i just might install it on my older machine just to poke around a bit..

      • #2527201

        I have sold 3 Linux based computers since “Vista”

        by jackie40d1 ·

        In reply to What one company is doing

        I know what you mean and I have sold 3 computers with Linux Based O/S to people as they were getting tired of “PATCH TUESDAY”
        and all the rest of the hassles !
        I have 6 versions of Linux here at my place to install and the total cost of them is under what “Vista” costs like Xandros PRO, LINSPIRE 5.0, Linux 2007, Fedora core 6, SuSE 10.2 and if you add Code Weavers to them you can run a lot of Windows stuff any way !
        Why pay a ga-zillion dollars for something ?

      • #2527194

        Most big corporations already run Linux …

        by m wagner ·

        In reply to What one company is doing

        For them, it is a non-issue. They run Windows on the desktop because their employees use Windows at home. This reduces their support costs. Change that and desktop Linux at work will become a lot more common.

        Long before Vista shipped, MS announced Windows XP support for the enterprise to 2014. All they did recently was announce that they would also extend consumer support for XP to 2014. It cost them nothing and it relieved alot of conserned consumers and small businesses.

        Upgrading to Vista is simply not cost-effective until it is time to buy new hardware.

        • #2527187

          I guess I am just a head of the curve

          by jackie40d1 ·

          In reply to Most big corporations already run Linux …

          I have been pounding on people to change over for about 1 year now finally With “VISTA” comming out they are listening to me . . Sold 3 and might have a laptop conversion to Linspire 5.0 shortly as it has a ga zillion programs to add to it and dial up to 7 or 8 ISP’s built in
          Any way they want to connect to the web . .
          I only have 2 more items to get Linux to use or see and I am gone from windows completely for ever . .

        • #2527145

          Sure but you are a support provider. As long as …

          by m wagner ·

          In reply to I guess I am just a head of the curve

          … your customers have you to help them, they are set. But YOU are their OEM! If you get hit by a truck, who do they go to for support? To Linspire? To some other Linux guru who prefers SUSE? There is no reason for a happy XP users to jump to Linux just because they are gun-shy about jumping to Vista. They have until 2014 to decide whether Vista might be a good solution for them. And, there is no reason why an unhappy Windows XP user should move to Vista. There deciding to move to Linux doesn’t address in any way whether or not Vista is a good OS.

        • #2526344

          Well since I sit here a lot

          by jackie40d1 ·

          In reply to Sure but you are a support provider. As long as …

          I really do not plan on dieing soon and if I get past a year of teaching them they should be well into be able to do stuff on their own and understand the system and how it works . .
          I am putting Linspire 5.0 on Ronalds computer as it looks a lot like windows and he is a COMPETE novice never used one before . . Linspire has about 10 ways of signing on to the net built in so all he has to do is pick one . . And its got a setup for one which is not listed !

        • #2526575

          Corporate and Home User

          by exileblue ·

          In reply to Most big corporations already run Linux …

          Have been following this discussion and it got me thinking – anyone know the breakdown for corporate licences and personal purchsases of MS OS’s. Do MS see their OS strategy focussing more on home use? Let’s be honest, most home users don’t want to know what goes on under the hood. As long as it works and does what they want it to – and looks good, don’t forget that – they’re quite happy. Any well set up OS with hardware and installed software is not that hard to achieve – most problems encountered with any OS are caused/discovered by people like us messing around under the hood. As an example, my wife couldn’t care less about PC’s, as long as they work. Every time I upgrade/change my PC, the currrent one is “offloaded” to her. HD reformatted, fresh OS install and software. You could count on your one hand the number of times she’s had an OS related problem over the years (as I’ve stated before, never had Win98ME).

        • #2526442

          If I had to guess, the great bulk of PC licenses …

          by m wagner ·

          In reply to Corporate and Home User

          … are in people’s homes — not in the enterprise. Still, that fact means that the support costs for an enterprise is dramatically lower if their ‘worker bees’ (who also don’t care what’s under the hood) are using Windows — because that’s what they have at home.

          MS charges ‘an arm and a leg’ for consumer licenses because they don’t want to sell them. They want you to buy Windows from your favorite OEM. That way, the cut they take from the OEM is pure profit.

          For Microsoft, the money to be made from the enterprise is in the machine room and through enterprise agreements for the desktop. This keeps the enterprise from having to monitor Windows licenses and it permits MS into the lucrative machine-room market.

          In the enterprise machine room, everything is needs based so UNIX and Linux and Windows Server compete on an equal footing.

        • #2526336

          Dell it seems will add Linux

          by jackie40d1 ·

          In reply to If I had to guess, the great bulk of PC licenses …

          since they took a pole of users and others they have a discount for Linux users . . Its the difference between the cost of the MS stuff and a Linux version so you get back like $50.00 or something like that ( last I heard )

        • #2526346

          Aw you missed the fun :-)

          by jackie40d1 ·

          In reply to Corporate and Home User

          Mean you never had to fight with Win 98 SE or the next thing ME ? . . ME was a MAJOR patched together thing . .And it Should NEVER have been put out . .

    • #2527375

      sd163, your “o” key seems to be sticking

      by raylinkz9 ·

      In reply to Windows Vista

      I keep reading, in these and other postings, about all the companies that are moving their servers to Linux.

      When I was involved more heavily in IT operations, the guys who kept the servers, pretty much dictated the hardware and operating systems that the companies used. They always seemed to opt for a system which didn’t require some form of ‘interpreter’ wherever possible.

      Now that NT/2000 is getting like me, ok I’m old, many companies are looking at servers and operating systems, am I wrong to assume that Linux will be ‘dark horse’ candidate in this race?

      Is there a statiscal analysis anyone knows about which shows the last say 5 – 10 years. Might be interesting to see the dynamics of change in the percentages of the different operating systems in use at various size corps.

      Big corporations like big ships take a long time to turn around, but once they start turning, they turn exponentially faster.

      Keep it clean and positive, Linux or Windows, just think, if there were no competition, we would all drive black fords with alcohol burning engines.

      • #2527224

        A lot of the BIG SERVERS are

        by jackie40d1 ·

        In reply to sd163, your “o” key seems to be sticking

        I have my web site on a Linux server as its a bit more stable and has good protection . . A lot of places have gone to Linux . . Like the schools in California as its cheaper and does what they need to do in class . . Most of Europe has gone to Linux in one form or another and down under is going to be 90 % Linux shortly . . So Its good for something and I am trying to go totally too Linux . . Just need 2 items working and I am gone forever to Linux . . ! !

      • #2527143

        In the machine room (where the servers live) …

        by m wagner ·

        In reply to sd163, your “o” key seems to be sticking

        … UNIX used to dominate — and still does except when delivering proprietary Windows services, like ADS or MAPI-based e-mail and calendaring services. UNIX is being challenged by Linux servers on one side and Windows servers on the other. In this environment, platform selection is determined almost exclusively by the needs of the application or service in question — and TCO between the three platforms is about the same.

        Linux was born to compete against UNIX and neither the Linux vendors nor the Windows OEMs give a damn about desktop Linux. The only reason Microsoft cares about competition form Linux is that MS wants the same piece of the UNIX action that Linux does.

      • #2526462

        I agree. Linux is an Excellant Server

        by us is ! europe-thankgod! ·

        In reply to sd163, your “o” key seems to be sticking

        …but to compare it at this time as a consumer ready desktop and to compare it to windows. I work in the corporate world from help desk to development to lead warehouse engineer. I’ve become the “neighborhood” help desk and tech for my father business. There is NO way I would give Linux to these users. Most of the people talking are technical…users want it to work and only work. Vista does that and so does Apple, linux has a way to go.

        • #2526339

          Me thinks you should

          by jackie40d1 ·

          In reply to I agree. Linux is an Excellant Server

          II think you should go read some of the software thats available to Linux and it see’s almost everything attached to your computer . .
          Xandros see’s everything just does not have a driver for 2 things . . So I get to buy a book ( cost $30.00 ) and make the driver my self for Linux . .Since the makers of the items seem to think Linux is just not ready yet . .

    • #2527111

      Agree that Truth Is somewhere in between.

      by davemori ·

      In reply to Windows Vista

      Several of the comments I have seen in this thread about Windows Vista, LinUX and the MacOS are largely polemic and full of inaccuracies.

      How technically superior an OS is, has nothing to do with market share. There is presently a space in the market for all of these operating systems – even the ones that several people on this thread don’t seem to like.

      A product or an OS simply has to create value to the developers and customers. Apple’s aim was never to have 100% market dominance. It’s goal has always to simply be a profitable company and to create good products which create value for its customers. As long as it continues to do that, it will be profitable and continue to exist.

      The world is also moving to be increasingly an Internet World, not a Microsoft World where every product on your computer has to be a Microsoft branded product or a Windows based product.

      Even if an IT department religiously holds to a Windows standard, over time it will have less and less of a technical excuse to do so when all the corporate apps are delivered through a browser and the productivity apps have LinUX and MacOS counterparts with sufficiently seamless file exchange and sufficiently compelling extra features that the Microsoft branded products may not have.

      It has been this last item – the arrival of sufficiently compelling extra features in the LinUX and MacOS products that has been a bit slower than expected. The solutions by and large are at parity or near parity, and in many instances they may even be cheaper, but they also need to be compelling enough to be worthy of changing and standardizing upon in the enterprise.

      I have worked for IBM, Microsoft and Apple, and I agree with the statement that the market is changing away from Microsoft dominance. With Vista, customers are also not seeing a lot of compelling new functionality that is really worth upgrading.

      As with previous verisons of Windows, and previous major releases Microsoft products,
      the savvy customer also knows that a lot of bugs come with the new OS and software. They sit around and wait for stability, more security patches and point releases before jumping into the water and adopting widescale.

      Newest versions of Windows used to be able to trickle into the enterprise, anyway, due to the fact that the newest version automatically came loaded to the new machines (and companies eventually have to replace all old hardware), but with the prevalence of products like Altiris, the IT Department also has the ability to image an approved, standard and proven stable software configuration, and rapidly redeploy the older OS and software versions on to new machines that have been purchased.

      Microsoft’s old business model of attempting to force the customer to upgrade to the latest and greatest is not working so well anymore, and even attempts like using end-of-life product and OS tactics (force a migration by terminating the development of security patches, etc for older versions) is not going to fly with every enterprise customer anymore.

      For those of you who worship Microsoft and Windows Vista – great. It will still have a place in the market. For those of you who worship LinUX – great. There is a place in the market for LinUX, too. For those who love the MacOS – great. Apple has a good future as well. Industry Pundits have been wrongly predicting Apple’s demise for decades, and the stock is strong and one share of Apple stock is worth over three times what a share of Microsoft stock is worth.

      Marketshare between these companies and platforms is always going to be dynamic.

      The enterprise IT customer tends to generally stick with the devil that they do know (Microsoft), and the devil that they presently can support — but no company and product stays on top of even the conservative enterprise IT world forever.

      When you have 90% market dominance, you have more to lose than to gain. When you have less market dominance and you are aiming for dominance, you have everything to gain and actively search for innovation.

      Novell used to own networking. Lotus Development Corporation used to own spreadsheets. WordStar and MultiMate and Wang used to own word processing. Northern Telecom used to own the world of PBX voice switches. IBM used to own the world of PCs. Nobody stays on top forever.

      The IT professional is well advised by history not to turn the technologies he/she supports into his/her own professional identity or his/her own technology God.

      Embrace and try to understand and support everything. Professionals who can, write their own tickets when it comes to negotiating salaries. Professional who are one trick ponies and technology bigots, stand in unemployment lines and have to scramble to learn something new when their technology gods die out.

    • #2526612

      billie gee: vista is a family matter

      by amj2010 ·

      In reply to Windows Vista

      the point is that in most families there are more than 1 pc in the house, so if you wanne have all of them upgraded, boy, you must rob a bank or so, to be in line with MS thinking.
      so please billie gee fresh up and think family wise and give a family licence like a company needs.

    • #2526409

      Tech Republic: Directed by idiots?

      by jusovsky ·

      In reply to Windows Vista

      I can’t believe this post made the Vista Report newsletter. There are so many spelling and grammatical mistakes in it that it looks like it should be written in crayon. That lends plenty of credibility to it. The opinion expressed is just the same old crap that’s being pounded into the ground by the paranoid, the cranky, and the anti-Microsoft. This junk is TIRED.

      • #2526381

        No need to be rude.

        by m wagner ·

        In reply to Tech Republic: Directed by idiots?

        If it is not worth reading, why comment?

        • #2526367


          by jusovsky ·

          In reply to No need to be rude.

          I comment in the hope that Tech Republic will cease drawing attention to the same opinion over and over again. It’s the same discussion every week. Furthermore, there should be a standard for post quality in order to be featured in a newsletter. The author of the newsletter had to edit the text of this post’s excerpt, so it probably should not have been selected at all.

      • #2526267

        start developing for UNIX/LINUX

        by mike-b ·

        In reply to Tech Republic: Directed by idiots?

        I suggest you start looking at other platforms as an alternative for the future. If nothing else it may increase your vocabulary.
        The post got the attention because the majority of users, professional a like aren’t happy!

      • #2526127

        Directed by idiots?

        by guy ·

        In reply to Tech Republic: Directed by idiots?

        I can’t agree with you more

    • #2526390

      Vista, the big let down

      by mdwinn1266 ·

      In reply to Windows Vista

      After waiting so long for the arrival of Vista, I was rather disappointed to find that it offers so much less than did Windows XP, unless one’s focus is more toward “Gaming”.
      So, I have reccomended to the CIO of my IT department to hold off on any thoughts of upgrading to Vista until/unless there are some major offering in future updates to the OS.

      • #2526378

        No need to upgrade yet …

        by m wagner ·

        In reply to Vista, the big let down

        … but it is a mistake for the enterprise not to begin evaluating it now. Soon enough, there will be software which will leverage Vista.

      • #2526330

        Not only a big let down

        by jackie40d1 ·

        In reply to Vista, the big let down

        From what I have heard a lot of people say its was slower than XP was and required a lot of changing of stuff . . Plus the Techie stuff I get in my e-mail said the same stuff lots of holes and will need patches till . . So I advised against people upgrading to it till they get a GOB of PROBLEMS fixed ! and my New customers are going to LINUX as the easy way around “Vista” and do as much stuff

        • #2526285

          In that case

          by jusovsky ·

          In reply to Not only a big let down

          I suppose that qualifies you to make informed recommendations about operating systems you’ve never used. I’ve heard and read a lot of things about Vista myself, but I’ve found most of the negative things to be “untruths,” misunderstandings, or outright B.S. Maybe you’d care to list the “gob” of problems. Most of the so-called problems seem to be more of issues with the cranky I-don’t-wanna-learn-anything-new attitude.

        • #2526269

          Don’t rely on hearsay …

          by m wagner ·

          In reply to Not only a big let down

          Check it out yourself. Go get the media and install Vista on whatever you want. You’ve got 30 days (MIN) to piddle with it so you don’t have to incur any costs whatsoever to do this. That’s the only way you will know the truth about Vista.

          From my own experience, Vista IS slower on lame hardware than XP but on two-year-old hardware with robust graphics, Vista is no faster or slower than XP(SP2). And, Vista is significantly faster and more stable in its MINIMUM configuration (800MHz, 512MB) than XP is in its MIN config (300MHz, 128MB) and Vista on a new entry-level machine runs much better than Windows XP rand on an entry-level machine in 2001.

          Oh, and an entry-level machine in 2001 was over $1,000 not under $400 as it is today!

      • #2526326


        by freebird54 ·

        In reply to Vista, the big let down

        I think it is very clear that Vista is a stopgap measure to ensure that revenue continues to flow while work continues on the ‘next real’ OS from Microsoft. All those features that didn’t make the cut? They WILL appear, probably within 2 years, and probably ONLY in a 64bit version of ‘Vista Enhanced’ or whatever they end up calling it.

        The move to 64 bit is what they are aiming at, and Vista is a cynical ‘holding action’ to prevent too much drift to the alternatives from occurring. I am sure they are counting on the corporate world to do NOTHING for the most part until they have the ‘real’ upgrade available – at which time it will probably have enough to be ‘compelling’.

        The window of opportunity is there for greater market share for Linux, and Mac for that matter – but Microsoft is still in a great position if they are not too far behind in the 64 bit stakes.

        All the fuss, bother, whining and the rest of it are expected, allowed for, and ignored – because it will probably ‘blow over’ without hurting MS bottom line very badly, as it has before (with XP). There WILL be defections (I am one – for ridiculous licensing restrictions (who says I should never move it around from system to system? Why can’t I play my own content? Why should I pay for ‘de-activation’ code to run at all times, instead of whatever job I have to get done?) rather than operational reasons) – but the percentage will be low enough to leave MS with a dominant position to start the battle for the ‘next OS’….

        Flame wars are not more than noise at this time, and Vista is NOT what MS is betting the farm on yet…

        [edited for typos]

        • #2526263

          Business NEVER upgrades to a new OS until it …

          by m wagner ·

          In reply to Stopgap

          … has thoroughly tested all of its mission-critical applications and life-cycle replaced a significant portion of its hardware investment with hardware that came with a license for the new OS.

          It probably is true that MS recognized that much of the promises originally made for ‘Longhorn’ could not be met in a 32-bit environment. They may also have anticipated that 64-bit would be more widely adopted by now.

          Pushing up against the 4GB RAM limit of the 32-bit architecture is probably what it will take for peripheral makers to get off their asses and product 64-bit drivers.

          Nevertheless, Vista is available today as 64-bit code and all (or nearly all) new computers today can run that 64-bit code.

          Oh, and MS does not restrict ANYONE from moving your license from one machine to another!

          As long as the consumer can buy a decent Vista machine for under $400, Apple will not compete with their Mac mini. As for the Linux vendors, this may be an opportunity for them to move in but I doubt that they will. They don’t want to compete against MS for the desktop anymore than Apple does!

    • #2526303

      turbo on your model T

      by gunga55 ·

      In reply to Windows Vista

      If you have a bunch of older computers Why would you try and put Vista on them. Of course it will crash. Then you can bitch and say MS sucks, but as always if you are putting in new machines you run Vista. It isn’t all that hard to figure out. While you can get Vista to run on less than a gig of ram, why would you? Some times its not the Operating System its the Operator.

      • #2526262

        Well, it wont crash, BUT …

        by m wagner ·

        In reply to turbo on your model T

        … it won’t be pretty. I have successfully run Vista on a seven-year-old Dell Dimension 4100 (866MHz, 512MB RAM) and it worked. It was even stable but it was DOG SLOW. If you ca stand to wait for it to boot up, it was OK but the true est of a new OS comes on new entry-level hardware. That’s where the rubber meets the road. (My brand new entry-level Compaq cost me $330 — my seven-year-old Dell cost me $1600.)

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