IT Employment

Ask something
Discussion Locked

Would unions help or hurt?

0 helpful
44 replies

by jmottl 2 views

Closed to new repliesThis discussion is closed. It stays readable, but it takes no new replies.

As a IT leader, what's your viewpoint on whether the IT worker population should unionize or not? Some believe it would strengthen job security, bring fair pay scales and boost benefits. Others believe it would bring layoffs, and hurt the worker pool? We want your insight and opinion for a future article.
Thanks!
Judy Mottl
CIO Community Editor

44 replies

by madmark

Unions came about as far back as the 1800's. Their purpose was to protect workers' rights & to give workers a voice in decisions regarding the companies that they worked for. Unions were a noble cause.

Modern unions seem to be a business unto themeselves, & union leaders more politically motivated & focused than true representatives of the average worker. There are always questions about who ultimately controls the unions, & references to organized crime.

Although I would like to see the protective measures & collective bargaining benefits that a union can provide, I am discouraged by yet another cost in the form of union dues added to my already over-taxed paycheck, loss of career control due to "seniority" issues, & being forcedto strike & picket, risking violence for a specific cause or disagreement that I may not fully believe in.

Unions have made the cost of doing business higher, without much impact to the businesses that are being run. The corporations still make money, & the consumer pays the higher prices.

Unions also tend to foster a less than productive attitude in workers. Just step into a government office and see what sort of service you get as standard. I hear enough "It's not my job" as a manager and a consultant, I would hate to see that become acceptable.

Another 2? added to the pot.

by john_wills

When unions control hiring, they often discriminate by race in submitting candidates. That is said to be why iron workers on the SF airport expansion are predominantly White, except among minority-owned subcontractors. The people sometimes most opposed to racialism are pro-union, so nothing gets done. Perhaps this would not be so in an informaticians' union, but one never knows.

Unions often give money to causes of which only a majority(sometimes only a minority) of members approve, e.g. pro-abortion political candidates; this kind of donation should be made by individual members in their citizen capacity, but the unions "concentrate" by stealing. Until there is a paycheck protection law this will continue. Even if I do approve of a cause, do I approve of bribery? Recently the Governor of California accepted a donation from the prison guards' union in exchange for raising their pay, but obviously some prison guards would prefer to keep their present wages and support another gubernatorial candidate.

We are not poor. The UFW is needed - and it is anyway fairly pure in its activities - but is an informaticians' union needed? My salary is about 2.5 times that of a flight attendant, and would be 3 times had I not had some bad luck of a kind against which a union cannot help. I have good benefits, and it is unlikely that they will be taken away, even if I change jobs.

There are moral risks in unionization, and I do not think we have much in the way of potential benefits to weigh up against those risks.

by thechas

The biggest problem with unionizing, is the small number of workers at each location.

Also, the corporate trend is to out-source IT functions to small firms with the lowest bid.

I just don't see it happening. The average IT worker does not fitthe profile of a Union Member.
Couple that with a tight job market, and unionization is tough.

The only route would be to setup something like the construction trades where employers had little choice but to hire from the Union.

Chas

by djent

The dirth of unemployed IT personal would negate organization efforts. Get a new body, would be the cry from corporate america.

by maxwell edison

If the IT industry were to unionize - which would not be realistic and/or possible - I would certainly be an outsider because I would refuse to do it - under any circumstances, regardless of the repercussions. (Even if I had to change careers.)

Iconsider unions "blue-collar", so to speak, and I consider the IT industry more “professional”, along the lines of engineers, architects, and attorneys. I think that the "professional" professions that have unionized have hurt themselves- or the ones they're supposed to serve - by doing so. The teacher's union is one that comes to mind, as do the air traffic controllers (remember 1981?) and airline pilots.

Professionals do not engage in work stoppages and go out on strike.

Professionals can negotiate for themselves.

Professionals can provide for their own well being.

In addition, it would be virtually impossible to unionize.

? Too many outside consultants. What other “business owner” is a union member?

? Too many IT professionals are also other type of professionals – they wear two or more hats.

? The IT industry is simply too diverse in scope, i.e. Web Masters, Network Administrators, Help Desk personnel, CIOs. Can you imagine a corporate CIO going out on strike?

? Too many reasons to list. TechRepublic Web Site would crash because of data overload.

?With whom would they negotiate? (See next post)

by hurin

Quote: Professionals do not engage in work stoppages and go out on strike.

Professionals can negotiate for themselves.

Professionals can provide for their own well being.
What a load of drivel.
professionals do go on strike, professionalsdo need joint negotiation, yes they can provide for their own well being - until they are unfairly dismissed - then where are you?

Professionals do not have to have the same job title or be on the same pay scales, or be in the same company to me in the same union.

by maxwell edison

One person's drivel is another person's reality.

There are people (in the USA) on (fourth & fifth generation) welfare who have been told that they don't have the wherewithal to succeed on their own, to overcome obstacles on their own, and to be responsible for their own lives - because there are those who've convinced them that they can't.

It's high time people are given the message that they can.

Collectivism - in the long run - has never proved to work for the better - never. Collectivism robs people of self-responsibility. Collectivism doesn’t allow people to be as self-driven. (Sorry, the union won’t allow you to do that.) How many incompetent "union members" employees can't be fired because of negotiated agreements with the union? Do yourself a favor and engage in a little experiment. If your city is like mine, there are several different grocery store chains in your town. Some are "union" stores, others are not. (The union stores are, most likely, in the majority.) Visit them both - as a customer - and give them enough business to get a feel for how they do business. The non-union store will have lower prices AND the employees will be more competent, more friendly, and more helpful. The non-union storeswill be cleaner and have more variety. The non-union employees have something on the line. The have to perform better. The non-union employees simply don't give a $%&@ because they don’t have to.

Unions served a useful purpose – 100 years ago. Today is different.

A message to hurin: You should give yourself more credit than you do. Whether you think you can or can't, (do anything) you're probably right.

by maxwell edison

Dateline AP, Newark, New Jersey:

WebMasters of America walked off the job today when negotiations broke down with virtually every industry in America. Present at the negotiations were representatives from the automotive, airline, and trucking industries; media outlet representatives; architects, engineers, and construction industry representatives; government representatives, including federal, state, city and county; restaurant and grocery representatives; as well as toy and athletic equipment, medical and pharmacutical, and beer, liquor and wine industry spokesmen. More industries were represented, but this reporter can not possibly list them in the time and space allocated for this story. Every hotel in New Jersey was filled to capacity because of the influx of people for the negotiations, which are taking place at Giants Stadium, Meadowlands Sports Complex.

Representatives from the automotive industry went on record by saying that the breakdown was due to a recent strike bythe email handlers union because they, as a result of those negotiations, were unwilling to work more than 40 hours a week getting the country’s email system back on line. When the representatives from the Webmasters union defended the email handlers’ actions, the automotive industry representatives walked out of the negotiations frustrated because of the lack of accountability. Not to be outdone, representatives from the major media outlets claimed that the Webmasters union was being unreasonable in some of their demands. When pressed to give some examples, the media industry representatives refused to do so, stating that they learned their lesson from their recent encounter with the network administrators union when, during those negotiations, all media network infrastructure “conveniently” broke down, rendering communication between various media affiliates virtually impossible.

(continu

by maxwell edison

Speaking of virtually, the members of the virtual reality union suggested that the negotiations for the Webmasters should follow their lead, and agree to a settlement similar to the one they reached with the entertainment industry. (This is the Hollywood entertainment industry, not to be confused with the “media” entertainment division.) When asked for a copy of the documents pertaining to that settlement, a spokesman for the virtual reality union said that it was unavailable because the data was lost due to a breakdown in the industry’s data backup systems. When asked why that data was not backed up, the spokesman indicated that members of the data backup union were simply honoring the Webmasters’ picket lines. They claimed no responsibility for any loss of data, instead placing blame on those automotive industry representatives who walked out of the negotiations.

In a twist of ironical proportions, the Webmasters attending the negotiations found themselvesstranded in Newark, New Jersey because they were unable to confirm their airline reservations. The computer systems running the airline industry’s reservation system were not responsive. There was no explanation from the reservation programmers union, who is responsible for that system.

As a side note, school children across America were disappointed with the lack of progress in the negotiations because all Web Pages related school projects had to be put on hold until a settlement wasreached. The school children said that if they continued work on their Web Pages without a waiver from the Webmasters union, they would be subject to fine and/or imprisonment for violating the Webmasters Inclusive Property Act, which was supported by and signed into law by President Al Gore in 2005.

-What a nightmare!!!!!

by gorilla jr.

How would someone be able to organize such a diverse group of people? Webmasters, Network Admins., Programmers, CIOs, Help Desk, PC Techs, etc. all have different expectations, responsibilities, and aspirations. As someone who has climbed the ladder from a computer operator to running an IT department (I also did a stint as a consultant at a consulting company for about a year), I think my promotions and pay raises would have been more difficult to do and get with a union telling me what to do and how. As a group, technical people tend to be an independent bunch. Look at the open source movement. They want an alternative to the "mainstream" software. What about hackers? Would the union work to stop them or try to recruit them? How would you recruit a hacker? Would you tell them they can no longer do as they wish and conform? There are many IT people that are also entrepreneurial, and this group is definitely nonconforming. No unionizing IT people is a bad idea and one thatI don?t think will ever work. You just need to look at the trucking industry, another group of independent thinking people. While there are some truckers that are unionized, there are also many independent truckers. Any time you?ve heard of truckers trying to get their ?brethren? to have a work stoppage of all truckers did it work? Again, no it did not. Why? Because there are too many independent truckers who don?t want to be part of a group that is going to tell them what to do. They want to do things their way. I for one will continue to do things my way.

by http://stobie.home.sprynet.com/work/

The problems in IT today is

1) Many companies use contract labor instead of hiring to give themselves a disposable IT force. Who loses: The IT workers (the pay is not significantly higher for them, the job security is poor, benefits are limited) and the company (it costs them more usually, but it is easier to get rid of people. Many company have way too much contract labor for too long, where employees are much more economical). Who Gains: the third parties who organize the contract labor and get a cut.

2) Many executives and subexecutives do not understand technology management. Who loses: Everyone but competitors with good technology management in place.

3) Technology Integration is not well understood by executives, subexecutives, and most of IT. Who loses: Everyone but competitors with good technology management in place.

4) Politics more important to career advancement than qualifications or ability. Who loses: Everyone but the political who advance (and they may lose long term).

5) Job postings are looking for exact nich players, not someone who can fill many roles. Who loses: Most everyone in the long term.

Will Unions help address these problems?

Answer: No, Not in traditional form.

Whatis needed is education. I would recommend a professional society to educate executives on how to get the most out of IT.

by david williamson, mba, pmp

Professionals don't unionize.

IT is a profession in which we need to be as responsive to changing business needs as possible, including in our job descriptions and our work hours.

We are the CHANGE AGENTS! Unions are ANTI-CHANGE!

by fed it worker

The laws of supply and demand apply whether you are talking about manufacturing an item, or providing a service (like IT support). When the supply of specific service providers is slim (like HTML developers at the start of the Web revolution or Oracle, JAVA, SAP experts) and the demand is high, then the prices paid will be high, job security will be high, benefits will be high. The natural reaction of a slim service provider situation is for business managers to look for lower cost alternatives (e.g., overseas outsourcing, partnerships with trade schools, using industry-wide tools versus custom/unique tools, partnering with other firms in the use of a service provider, etc.). When the supply of service providers is large (or the demand for those particular services drops off), the situation is reversed. A union may help ensure that wages and benefits are high - for a season, then the entire service will be lost to a lower-cost competitor or alternative service. Unions were initially developed to institute a fairness for workers that private industry firms did not voluntarily provide. With the variety of businesses looking for self-motivated, industrious employees and the willingness of employees to relocate to where those choice firms are located, the need for unions seems moot.

by charmart

It would be totally destructive to the tech industry to unionize. Capitalize has made this a great industry. Free enterprize and competition makes our industy grow along with salaries. Unions are the closest thing to communism you can have in theU.S.A.

by rangaradha

Once IT proferssionals go on the Unionism path, we can witness the demise of professionalism in the system.

Unions are formed to protect the interests of employee safety, security and growth within an organization.

I think we're in the information age where things do happen in faster pace where we can't even imagine about unionism.

There are several ordinance and laws passed since the modern industry started evolving to protect the interests of employees.
I strongly feel unionism willbe more destructive than any good to the industry as well as to individuals.

by strattonp

Unions and communism have very little in common. Unions are still completely dependent on labor market forces.

Unions and socialism have more in common where the good of the group is the focus.

Union and greedy capitalism where CFO and CEO rape corporation’s of assets have very little in common. And I don’t see where corporate leaders actions are good for the economy.

by john_wills

To the best of my knowledge, no communist-ruled state has had free trade unions. In non-communist states it sometimes happens that unions in effect subject themselves to political movements, e.g. when many California unions opposed school choice half a year ago. A paycheck protection law should fix that. But there are other modes of corruption.

by jmckune

I work in the IS department in a midwestern Catholic hospital. This past spring, a local union failed for the second time in three years in their attempts to organize workers here. The focus was primarily on the nurses, but our entire IS department (45 employees) was lumped together with other technical employees in a single bargaining unit. The vote was 2-to-1 against the union within the bargaining unit and unanimously against the union within the IS department.

In the last century, unions served their purpose in establishing fair wages and acceptable working conditions for American workers. In my opinion, they did such a good job that they are no longer needed. Federal and state legislation to protect workers now exists. Unions have become nothing more than a funnel for money to union leaders who run their "club" with an iron fist. To them I say, "Thanks for the good work. Now give up the fight. We don't need you any more."

by strattonp

That's right, give up the fight.

And then ask all the workers at Enron and Worldcom to give up the fight for severance pay and lost benefits.

How about the lack for pension benefits for most contract IT workers?

Be thankful for unions - they are fighting battles every day for worker rights.

Stratton Penberthy
Director IS
International Union of Operating Engineers
Wash DC

by hurin

The problem you seem to have is you can only see what is good for you personally. What would happen if (as you seem to like scenario's) Every IT company decided as computers can only add up to 2, therefore they must be easy to use, maintain, programetc, and as a result of this all IT workers had a pay cut of 70%, as an individual you would have no chance of exerting enough pressure to change this descision. Collectively you would. Unions do not tell you what to do, their mandate is given by its members, the ONLY reason why truckers in America failed as a Union is because their are to many selfish people who only think of themselves, in other countries in Europe, there are successful unions of Truckers etc. Unions are not just about money,they are about conditions of service, health & safety, Racism, Sexism etc all the little things that individual people cannot force onto companies. If you wish to go it alone, don't complain if you have an accident at work and there is no health & safety at work, and you have to spend months in hospital - where will your individualism be then?

by maxwell edison

Hurin,

You said, “The problem you seem to have is….”. Why is it that when someone disagrees with you, that you suggest they have a problem? You sound like a Democrat. (Or worse – even farther left) Don’t you believein diversity – diversity of thought?

Why is it that you worry about those things you mentioned, while I don’t? I have enough confidence in myself and in my ability to handle whatever cards life’s deck deals to me. I really do feel sorry for those who don’t. Most people’s limitations are self-imposed. Who or what has robbed you of your confidence? Who or what has caused you to place those self-imposed limitations on yourself? You really do show an extreme lack ofconfidence in your own ability.

If my company offered me a 70% pay cut, I could either accept it or not. I have the choice to go to a competitor and offer my services to them. Moreover, I have the freedom to walk away and compete with the very company I left. And, by the way, your example simply doesn’t apply. The premise is flawed. You said, “… if every IT company decided…”. That’s collectivism on the companies’ part. I don’t believe in that either. And that doesn’t exist in America. America is the land of free enterprise and competition. That’s why it couldn’t happen. I suppose you like the idea of a collectivist worker’s union negotiating with a collectivist (government controlled?) industry. What a recipe for disaster!

(continued..)

by maxwell edison

I don’t really care what people do in Europe. I’m in America, and America is different than every other nation on earth. They (other countries) should follow America’s lead, not the other way around. Europe – the place that’s had two World Wars on its soil over the last century. (And America bailed them out.) Europe – the place that bread Stalin and Hitler. (And America brought them down.) Collectivism – Communism – failed in Europe, didn’t it? (Thanks to America’s pressure.) Why did it fail? Because it simply couldn’t compete with capitalism and freedom, that’s why. Why is it that people flock to come to America from all over the world? Because in America a person can buy their own truck (using your example), and start their own trucking company. And they don’t need approval from some collectivist (European) government to do it. And furthermore, if I had to join a union in order to stay in the IT field, I’d quit and, perhaps, go drive a truck – my own truck.

By the way, the things I proclaim apply to life here in America. Perhaps the only place on earth where they still apply. It’s getting more and more difficult to keep your typeof collectivist ideology at bay, but we will prevail.

(Boy, I’ve opened up a can of worms here.)

by james r linn

I worked at a multinational company once, on a site where most of the workers were union. I had an admin assistant who watched everything I did so she could report me and have a union greivance filed if I picked up a computer and delivered it myself.

That union, in the end, was responsible for putting its members out of work. The union convinced the membership to threaten a strike after the company had suffered a billion dollar loss. This at a time when the starting salary for them (electronics assembly workers) was higher than my salary after years of being a senior desktop technician with a university degree and 7 yearscomputer experience.

As a result the company moved the assembly jobs to another site where a different union was in place. Many of the employees could have transferred but it was hundreds of miles away.

Frankly, my provincial government does a fine job of regulating health and safety, and protecting against discrimination in the workplace. I never needed a union to fight for me. I realise I've been lucky to work for good employers, but these bodies still exist to help those who work for bad ones.

I have also seen what happens when older lesser skilled employees bump younger, harder working employees out of their jobs, and it makes me sick.

James

by lordinfidel

One of my peers recently was offered a job and it was 20k less then what he would accept for the position. So he did'nt take it.

If a company feels it can get away with paying x amount, they are going to get that type of talent.

When they find that the person they hired can't do the task, they will quickly find they need to hire the expertise that can.

IT staff makes companies virtually 0 dollars. (besides developers making the products for the companies)

We justify our existance by the fact that we keep their systems running so that they can continue day to day operations. Usually companies are not paying us to do the day to day tasks. They are paying us for when there is hard, mission critical, advanced problems that needto be solved.

Our knoweldge and expertiese in our fields is what drives our market value.

If being a doctor was so easy, then everyone would do it. But I have met numerous doctors who are deftly afraid of touching the computer for fear of breaking it.

Here in the US, we have choices. If you choose to work for menial wages with no benefits, then that is your choice.

Unless Corporate america unionizes then there is no need for IT to unionize.

by penguinsrule

I don't think companies would have a big problem letting everybody go, shutting down all the machines and going back to paper and pencil

:)

just kidding.

by maxwell edison

I have a MAJOR MAJOR typo (I didn't proof-read) in the aforementioned message.

I said:

The non-union employees simply don't give a $%&@ because they don’t have to.

I SHOULD HAVE said (and meant to say):

The UNION employees simply don't give a $%&@ because they don’t have to.

(I'll be out for a while, wiping the egg off my face.)

by lordinfidel

I was'nt planning on chiming in but.

It would me extremely difficult to unionize the IT profession.

Can you see a bunch of geeks at a union meeting?
Not unless it was streamed online and invloved a round of UT, JediKnight or Wolfenstein.

Geeks barely have time to piss much less unionize.

I for one would not want to have to consult my union everytime I did a side consulting job.

I just can't see what benefit a union would bring. Unless by joining it you have to pass a practical hands on exam of your speciality. But is'nt that like certain certs anyways?

by apache5056

I also agree, the idea of unions (way back when) was awesome. It brought together the common worker and made (then) corporate America provide proper benefits and pay to the workers of yester-year. The unions started the financial America as we know it today and that I thank them for. An America with the best financial economy in the world and you get out of it what you put into it and nothing more. If you are going to live via well-fare, do it on you time and money, not mine (there is exceptions due to unforeseen circumstances and that I understand).

Times are tough right now (as I fall into 'the between positions' at the moment) but I do have hope that things will get better, financially speaking. Oh heck, if you can't work or find a job, go back to school and learn something new.

I have worked in union shops (in the past) and when they closed, I got nothing from the union, nothing. I personally will not work in a union shop again, as a professional or not. My best job was in a non-union shop and I quit to find a position in IT....OOOPS!..;^)

by kimmels

It was the Union which stepped in when I had to work 100 hours OVERTIME in 3 weeks. Before I was unionized, I quit often due to such abuse by the employer.

Word of advice. IT people need their own bargaining unit within the Union, for maximum success. Don't get stuck in a bargaining unit with a mix of employment types, or your issues will get lost.

by sparent

My experience with an IT bargaining unit was not very favorable. The negotiating team would systematically agree to very low increases. Bad negotiators? Probably! Would that be typical of IT people? I'll leave it up to you to decide.

One mentor once told me that the mark of excellence in IT was the ability to work yourself out of a job! I'd like to see a union rep wrap his or her head around that one!

Regards,
St?phane

by kimmels

It was the Union which stepped in when I had to work 100 hours OVERTIME in 3 weeks. Before I was unionized, I quit often due to such abuse by the employer.

Word of advice. IT people need their own bargaining unit within the Union, for maximum success. Don't get stuck in a bargaining unit with a mix of employment types, or your issues will get lost.

by nickmalik

Unions were invented because a worker with a legitimate grip about a company could be easily replaced with another worker, thus reducing the worker to a powerless automaton. This lack of control led to astonishing abuses by employers, most of whichwould be unthinkable today.

Unions paved the way for our current workforce. We are spoiled, really. We have employers who compete to see which can be the "best place to work." This reduces the need.

Also, the economics don't work from the employer. IT workers, for the most part, are NOT interchangable. They wide variation in skill sets makes any one, particular skill set fairly difficult to find, especially with the rapid change in technology.

Five years ago, it was impossible to find a good webmaster. Now, they are everywhere, but you don't NEED them because the tools have changed. This kind of change does NOT happen in auto manufacturing. Thus, employees remain valuable because of their rarity. This balances the scales sufficiently. Unions are not needed in IT.

by maxwell edison

Unions are more political in nature than they will admit or would like for anyone to believe.

A one-time champion of the little guy (A long long time ago in a galaxy far far away), unions have evolved into a vehicle to advance a (very) liberal political agenda.

International Union of Operating Engineers Political Contributions (2002/2002) by various locals:

Political Education Committee
? $411,500 to Democrats
? $82,000 to Republicans
? $2,000 to others

Political Action and education Committee
? $12,725 to Democrats
? $8,162 to Republicans

Voluntary Political Education Fund
? $12,000 to Democrats
? $2,796 to Republicans

And on and on it goes for a total of (Added to other building trade unions):
? $7,380,166 to Democrats
? $1,105,151 to Republicans
? 17,000 to Others

Source: FEC databases as of 09/1/2002

Of course, that doesn’t count the “under the table” contributions to the various Democrats – some of whom have been convicted of fraud and racketeering.

Union PAC contributions to federal candidates represent just a portion of Big Labor's expenditures on politics. Estimates of total union spending on politics are as high as half a billion dollars every election cycle

Total Union Contributions to Federal Candidates $45,253,080

? $40,966,861 to Democrats
? $4,162,944 to Republicans

Source: NATIONAL INSTITUTE FOR LABOR RELATIONS RESEARCH

Unions have become synonymous with Democrats.

Democrats are hostile towards business.

The business of America is business.

End of story.

(And don't even get me started on the teachers union.)

by romanettija

I would welcome the idea as some industry players do not appreciate the importance of IT workers, as such they are payed accordingly. With a union in place there will be a body to ensure that our issues are put forward. I also believe that the unionshould be a monitoring body to ensure that standards are maintained. It is important to maintain high quality at all times. How else can we make demands??

by asleep_at_the_wheel

Labor unions have outlived their usefulness. They had their role half a century ago, when most people were employed in manufacturing, mining and transportation, and when employees remained in one occupation with one employer in one locale their entire working lifetime. In such environment, labor unions enabled workers to bargain for improved wages and benefits, shorter working hours and improved working conditions.

But we're not living 75 years ago. The economy has been completely changed. Manufacturing, mining and transportation no longer dominate the economy. Computers, financial services, high tech and health care do -- fields that rely on workers having brains, not brawn, to be successful.

Furthermore, the wage structures that form the basis of collective bargaining are only suited for occupations requiring relatively little skill and knowledge, with seniority and grade of position, not productivity, being the factors that determine wages. The unskilled jobs that are most effectively suited for such fixed wage scales brought about by union representation and collective bargaining have been declining in recent years. In the meantime, many employees in the current economy want no part of fixed wage scales and union representation. Labor unions failed in organizing workers in Silicon Valley, and this has been an embarrassment to the leaders of these unions. We prefer instead to be compensated on the basis of individual productivity.

by asleep_at_the_wheel

The strategy that unions rely on, the strike, is looked upon with ridicule by those in the current economy. Going on strike is a worker saying to his employer, "If you don't pay me more, I'll resign." In case union proponents haven't been paying attention, that strategy isn't utilized in the current economy because it simply doesn't work. The fact that labor is more mobile than it was 50-75 years ago allows a worker dissatisfied with his income, benefits or working conditions to change employers, which, more than anything else, has been the catalyst that has produced high incomes in the information-based occupations that dominate the current economy.

If you want unions in this business, it is you, not I, that is really....

-Asleep atthe Wheel

by sparent

Uhhh... I think you've got the wrong type of organization. Standards, quality, and code of ethics, for example, are the domain of professional societies and assocations. I'm not sure what there is below the 49th, but here in Canada we have the Canadian Information Processing Society that offers exactly those services.

Regards,
Steph

by apache5056

Unions of yester-year had their place and time. Like the Model A's those guys drove, they need to be put in a museum to be idealized and remembered, not used today.

Once working in a union shop that shut down, what did the nearly 40 employees get? NOTHING! But yet, during the time we were in business the union took our money out of our pay checks only to make bubble promises.

Unions organized laborers of unskilled professions in a time that needed it. In today's market we are far from unskilled. Most of us use our heads and can think for ourselves. I don't need to pay someone to think for me and that is what the union would be. Someone to make your financial decisions while getting fat wallets off of YOU! That and really think aboutthis.....your wanting to organize a bunch of computer geeks...... ya right!

by w_bryan_baker

I have over 20 years of IT experience and have brushed up against this question many times. My experience is that unions are only out for themselves. I have seen several cases where unions lied or "bent" the truth in representing a management offer.

Forget about it!!!

This discussion is closed to new replies.