General discussion


Year of the Linux Distro

By Dumphrey ·
Well, another year has come and gone, and Linux is still not a household name. Great strides have been made by many companies to put Linux in the hands of the masses, (Everex and Dell), but there is a long way to go.
Historically, Linux has been viewed as too "technical" for the average user, and "nothing will run on it".
Of these two "faults" only one can be laid at the feet of the Linux Gods, that being that "Linux is to technical". And, I would say this is no longer true. It is, in my opinion, less work to set up a Linux workstation (on bare metal) for office tasks then a Windows machine, and Linux window managers and desktops are giving a "windows-like" feel (though to be honest, was Mac not the first commercial GUI?).
All that being said, do you think Linux Distros are going overboard in their attempt to "dumb down" Linux in an attempt to reach the ?average? user? Should Linux remain ?pure? and in the hands of ?geeks??
Note: Please limit this to Linux Distros, this is not a Linux/Windows whine fest =\

This conversation is currently closed to new comments.

Thread display: Collapse - | Expand +

All Comments

Collapse -

yes!, completely and un-equivically.

by Jaqui In reply to Year of the Linux Distro

quit the dumbing down of linux and bloating of it with useless eye candy!!

Collapse -

Eye candy (shudder)

by Dumphrey In reply to yes!, completely and un-e ...

I personally hate beryl/compriz. Last time I installed Ubuntu, I had to kill and remove all related components befor I could get 3d supported video to work (ati x1300 agp). Its nice and all that its there for people into that, but they all (Well, Fedora, Ubuntu, Suse) are turning it on by default, it really should be an option durring install.
other then eye candy, what do you see as the biggest "dumb down" in Linux atm?

Collapse -

biggest dumb down?

by Jaqui In reply to Eye candy (shudder)

Ubuntu / kubuntu / etc from connonical, they kill off the majority of the unix security model by disabling root login completely, when their targeted user base are so stupid they use the same login for everything.

or, even worse, the same stupidity that MS and MAC have been doing for years, LYING BY OMMISION to their users with a GRAPHICAL BOOT!!!!
don't conceal anything, unless you want to be honestly accused of lying by ommision.

I detest the stupidity of ANY distro that defaults to being in gui mode. gods, that is why I roll my own instead of using any distro.

no grub,
no firefox
no gui by default
no graphic boot
no SOUND enabled by default.
[ if I want sound, I'll start the server manually ]

I detest the stupid requirement of having a print server on every box, specially when THERE IS NOT A PRINTER ATTACHED TO IT!!!
[ no printer, paper free office ]

I have no use for a fax server, so why does EVERY distro want to install one by default?
why has to have a fax server on their computers? don't you have a fax machine for faxing?
I agree with you on the beryl / compiz garbage, I refuse to install them at all.

but then I'm a minimalist, I want only the hardware I have on THAT box to be supported, with minimal sucking of resources for functionality.

LINUX FROM SCRATCH or DIY Linux, the only sane options left.

Collapse -

My problem with

by Dumphrey In reply to biggest dumb down?

Kbuntu is the lack of a full system. Several packages just plain failed to run right, or had tons of missing dependencies, and these were not Gnome based packages. In order to make a KDE system work right, you have to install a default Ubuntu system, THEN install KDE and use it as default session. That is bloat.
The splash screens on boot can be disabled, and I do so, as I like to watch for issues and info when the computer boots.
And would you mind elaborateing on
"LYING BY OMMISION to their users with a GRAPHICAL BOOT!!!!" please? Whata re they lying about? Boot times? Services?

Collapse -

that comment is based on

by Jaqui In reply to My problem with

the legal oath in court.. "The truth, the FULL truth" by not displaying the full boot messages they are not giving the "FULL TRUTH" which is lying by concealing information.
[ using conceal information to equal omit information ]

like I said, the build from scratch / sources method is the only way to really avoid the bloat now.
even debian is bloated, when you try to install kdevelop ide and it suddenly picks every single optional component for kde as "required" it is bloated. it also does this if you pick k-office, or any other kde component, everything is a required dependency with kde.

edited for typo

Collapse -

I see what you mean

by Dumphrey In reply to that comment is based on

And I guess I cann say it has never bothered me from a legal perspective, only from a technical one.

Collapse -

cheers for the confirmation on Debian and KDE

by Neon Samurai In reply to that comment is based on

I cut a Debian VM a few days back and wondered if/why I was getting all KDE packages downloaded with I only asked for Konsole and dependencies (by my thinking that should have been the minimum KDE UI code needed to sit behind konsole).

Anyhow, it was a rather timely accidental confirmation. Cheers.

Collapse -

I've had good luck with Mandriva custom installs

by Neon Samurai In reply to biggest dumb down?

no fax.. no CUPS.. no compiz/beryl.. no GUI skin during boot.. no GUI login after boot..

There is a minimum of default stuff that Mandriva installs but I haven't had any issues with that initial glob. Once I get past the minimum and first boot, only what I want on top of that goes in easily through urpmi from a local NAS stored repository. I don't even install all of KDE; only the minimum to support konsole and what I need from the drake tools until user programs require more.

Granted, you'll have a better idea of what I'm not seeing though. I'm due to have a go at LFS or DIY builds but they haven't happened yet; first Debian.

Collapse -

the real bloat

by Jaqui In reply to I've had good luck with M ...

is in the kernel and xorg, that is where most distros are installing every single device driver there is.

try ripping out most of the kernel modules or removing video card drivers from xorg, the drivers for cards you don't have.

you'll either be told xorg has to come out completely, or find you have far more free space.

Collapse -

The kernel is the one place I role my own these days

by Neon Samurai In reply to the real bloat

Ah yes.. the kernel and X core would have everything there wouldn't they. I thought modules where not supposed to load unless needed so I've always switched things over to modules rather than compiled in support. In a few cases I've tried removing support entirely but probably with a little too much zeal as it's not been very successful.

I do compile my own custom kernel though only for the self satisfaction of selecting Athlon instead of the default PentiumIII cpu type. Now if I could only find the equivalent for Virtualbox; Mandriva keeps installing it against the stock kernel even if I'm booted off my custom during the package install and I've yet to figure out how too correct that.

oh well.. VMware works well enough for now until there's a "can't live without" reason for Virtualbox. (I do like the idea of tapping the native kvm support though)

Related Discussions

Related Forums