You Can't Fly Like an Eagle

Can't argue with that. Alas, unlike soaring eagles, the weasels I know don't get sucked into the engines of jet planes.

You'll fly wherever you are.

You may always eat the turkeys however....

That's deep man!

I need to sit down...

Eagle tastes just like chicken anyway.

do it in the kitchen! Not behind the keyboard.

Turkeys gobble.

LOL, when I used to do phone tech support, I'd frequently get called SIR. NOT that I think my voice is all THAT low... (I do sing soprano afterall) but for some reason, since it's not that high pitched either, people looking for someone to fix their PC preferred to think I was male... I was once even told that I was a "very nice gentleman" LOL!

My husband tells me often that he's glad I'm not a "real" woman. Though he doesn't seem to appreciate my intellect and independence when it comes time to do the housework :(

works from home, so he takes care of most of the housework and laundry, and quite frankly, he's better at it.

And if my dinner isn't on the table when I get home, there is hell to pay.

Even with mustard.

Oh wait what was this thread about?

;)

oh yeah eagles....oh you mean how they'll be soaring over the Vikings this Sunday? ;)

works from home too... and I work outside the home... but he still seems to think that all the time he spends adminning his website lets him off when it comes to anything to do with housework GRRRR!!!

And if dinner's not on the table by the time I get home... I'm grateful, because the only things my husband will deign to cook are grilled cheese, macaroni and cheese, or ramen noodles. BLECH!!!

"It's hard to soar like an eagle when you have to flock around with a bunch of turkeys" or as one gal put it, "You have to kiss a lot of frogs before you find a prince." My reply was that it probably depended on which part of the frog she was kissing. :D

to a chicken or other bird, before baking:

"Grasp the bird by the thigh and stuff in the usual manner."

[That's a favourite of a friend who is a gourmet].

you are bitching at me?

I'm making a statement. You brought the bitch word in.

Some of this is a carry over from another thread in which Ms Maecuff declared her independence, burnt her bra, and marched on the Republic.

my bra?? You really need to get out of the seventies.

Banter is one thing, misogyny is quite another.

but that could put millions of people in thirdworld countries that make this spandexy material out of work... and not to mention how much my back would hurt!

I never met her. Is she Irish?

You got to be kidding. There is nothing in the Christian faith that can be attributed to a hatred of women. Christ spent special time with women, viewed them as spiritual equals, and assigned them special duties. Biblically, women are given a specific order in life and men are instructed to look at thier inner beauty. Just because many women desire to reject thier Biblically ordained place does not mean that Christianity practices misogyny. It is rather that those women have choosen not to be Christians and seemingly have a hatred for thier ordained place in Christianity.

Biologically, an embryo is first female then the Y Chromosome attaches to the SRY gene causing a male fetus to form. Interestingly, researchers are looking at this process to determine if male homosexuality is a birth defect where a male body forms but retains a female brain. There is greater support it is more of a choice than a biological defect.

Anyhow, I can see misogyny in religions like Islam but not Christianity as it is counter to its principles.

I've worked it out at last. You ARE taking the p:ss, aren't you? Your unsubtle so-far-out-of-it-bible-thumping-crap has had me fooled all along into believing you were serious. I put it down to cross-cultural differences but now I've caught on that no (even slightly) rational human being could really believe it.

Chortle, what a wag you are!

Do have a nice weekend and thank you for all the laughs.

Neil

p.s. Nice touch with the CAPITALS. Really makes me think that you're shouting at the screen. Wipe the spit off, though.

There's nothing in the BIBLE that promotes a hatred of women... but there have been too numerous woman-hating Christian leaders to count. There is evidence to support the claim that Mary Magdalene was actually an apostle of Christ, but a pope in the 9th century was a woman hater, and turned her into a whore whom Jesus lovingly "saved."

As for a woman's place, according to the Old Testament, Man gets the final say on all subjects and wives should submit to their husbands, but it ALSO says that husbands should LISTEN to their wives and treat them with respect! Men who willingly accept the first part tend to forget the second part.

Actually, she was probably closer to Christ than the apostles.

I find it interesting though, to consider that if you consider the resurrection of Christ as the MOST important event of the Christian faith (most do) it is interesting that the first recorded person Christ chose to appear to was Mary. The importance of this event is massive and cannot be covered up - even with most of the work of Mary lost or destroyed, to be the first chosen witness of Christ upon his resurrection is an amazingly strong indication of her true historical importance and relationship to Christ.

:)

~LoL~ Just as being with Ducks doesn't make one not a Swan, being with Turkeys does not make not an Eagle- and Eagles generally fly by definition. :)

If I'm a Turkey, I will gobble and whatever else as best I can.

If I'm an Eagle, I'm going to fly. :)

referring to Christianity. I'm talking about your attitude toward women. In fact, the only thing I mentioned was your trite 'bra burning' comment. I don't recall anything in the bible about bra burning. It's been a while since I've read anything in the bible, but I'm reasonably sure bra burning isn't mentioned.

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Not even one message, thus far, to indicate an understanding of my intentions. (Not to mention the "turkey" tangent.)

"Men who willingly accept the ...leadership... part tend to forget the ... listen to the wife... part." How can we not listen when the wives never shut up.

'I don't recall anything in the Bible about bra burning.' That is because women libers did that to protest the Bible in the 60's. Implants were not around in the days of the Bible to counter gravitational effects. So they must have used something to hold them up and could not afford to burn em'.

Anyhow, I do not hate women and I actually have a few of them myself.

by the way check this site out:

http://search.eb.com/women/

As one looking in on your comments and not offering an opinion eitherway, you are just sounding more and more anal with every post.

Do you actually relize how narrow/closed minded you sound? Is this REALLY what thebible has taught you, or is it just your interpretation of what's right and wrong?

Women's libbers were burning bra's to protest the bible, in other words. Give your head a shake man, you can live life like a human being and still believe in God.

And what's with the 'broads' comments all the time, wake up and realize it's 2005 already. Burning bra's and broads, man what a flashback! (Actually a flashback is about the only time any of that mindset would be applicable).

Mr. Miami, perhaps you'd care to answer a few simple questions.

Does a wife always have to obey her husband? What if the wife is smarter/more responsible/more rational? What if the husband is irresponsible/abusive etc?

Is fighting for your rights against the teachings of the bible?

Some of us men actually would support our wife in fighting for equality in the workplace, equal pay for work of equal value, an end to sexism in the workplace.

James

Mmmmm, Chicken pot pie.

I thought you were kidding arround for a minute there but..................you might just as well throw on a white hood, burn a cross and tatoo a swastica on your a.ss for all the sense your making.

What kind of reply is that from one of this sites most eloquemtly spoken members?

NOPE? what's the alternative? Yuppers?

You didn't even say who you were addressing, one can only ASSuME that it was Jessie by the way the thread is flowing.

Sure, now I won't get a wink of sleep until you enlighten us, turkeys!

Thanks Max, thanks! :(

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I think of the various discussions in which I (actually we, including yourself and a few others) try to share with people, those I might call the naysayers, to just believe that they are indeed a metaphoric eagle. Some people simply will not believe. And it's not so much that they won't believe me, because what I think is not the issue, but they fall way too short in believing in themselves. It's almost as simple as believing "you can", regardless of what is trying to be achieved. But what makes it even worse is that there are others who might want to convince someone that he "can't". Why in the world are there people who actually WANT to convince people that they are capable of less than what they are really capable of? And don't blame "big business" or anything like that, because I see it in these very threads.

Those who blame usually fall into this category. Those who complain usually fall into this category. Those who refuse to fully accept self-responsibility usually fall into this category. The ones who spread their negative poison usually fall into this category. And those who see the worst in people instead of the best usually fall into this category.

But the turkey's way is the easy way. It's a little harder to be an eagle, maybe a lot harder. Most people go through life with an "I'll believe it when I see it" attitude. Those are the metaphoric turkeys. But a handful of people choose to go through life with an "I'll see it when I believe it" attitude. And those are the metaphoric eagles.

My eagle is a metaphor, to be sure, but still a symbol of strength, self-reliance, and able to successfully reach heights that the turkeys can only dream of.

No, it's not easy, especially in a negative world such as this. And yes, I sometimes find myself included amongst the population of turkeys. But just as the eaglet in the story that Oz so graciously pointed us to, as long as we stay "cooped up with a bunch of turkeys", we will never realize our true potential. Once he realized that he could, he did. The "believe it" came well before the "see it". And once we realize that we can, we will.

Do I say this to criticize or to judge? The turkeys might think so. But the true eagles will know otherwise. The true eagles will know that the best way to help yourself reach your true potential is to help others reach theirs. But at some point a true eagle must leave the turkeys behind or else his true potential won't be realized either.

So be an eagle. And if you find yourself "cooped up with a bunch of turkeys", don't let them convince you that it has to stay that way. And if you carry this train-of-thought through to every aspect of life, some of those elusive answers will suddenly become clearer.

But if you choose to stay cooped up with a bunch of turkeys, you'll find it much harder to soar like the eagle you were meant to be.

Thanks for posting the link, Oz. That was exactly what I was talking about.

I liked Salmanders

"suggested that soaring eagles get sucked into jet aircraft engines."

I've seen a few presidents get sucked in by many fast flying CEO's................nothing left in the wake but a $500.00 suit.

Of course I dissagree with americanvoter in the 'true' sense ........ but those turkeys (aka peons) can slow you down a bit till you get your wings ;-)...................figured it was too 'simple'

Must get the turkeys PO'd something fierce! What the hell, whatever floats your boat. Different strokes for different folks. :D

Didn't mean to offend...sorry about that.

I understand your points regarding individuality, self-responsibility, and personal excellence. Unfortunately, we live in a society that seems to set the bar very low.

I suppose my problem with your sweeping statement is that it would seem that the definition of an "eagle" is what you want it to be - and your definition of turkeys is pretty damned obvious.

If you are saying that to be an eagle is to fly above the common crowd and achieve the very best for yourself then I'm not sure that I want to be an eagle.

I think that there is a balance to be drawn in any person's life of rights and responsibilities to self, family, friends, society in general and country. Not necessarily in that order.

Predating on turkeys is too easy. To continue the avian metaphors, when you are flying above everyone else then there is only one place for your sh:t to go, down on the turkeys!

Well, I don't want to be a turkey either so I'll have a think about what sort of bird I am.

Hmmm, Shrike is good. Do you have them?

Anyway, you do what you want - I guess you probably always do.

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But on the schools issue, I will add this. Educating our children, challenging our children, and driving our children to realize their true potential falls not only onto the shoulders of the schools, but on the parents who (presumably) choose to have those children.

I have often commented on lowered education level, it is commonly known/thought by many that US AND Canadian standards are much lower these days.

As a student that came FROM England to Canada while in school I can attest for this first hand, I didn't receive a fair education until in trades school, which cost MANY thou$and$ to complete (even with bursaries and student loans and such).

>When living in England, you start school a year earlier than out here.
>The education level is unquestionably more strict and advanced each year than the equivalent in North Americans schools, I don't think anyone has argued this.
>I had skipped a grade in England
I was placed back TWO grades when moving to Canada, due to age and that I had skipped a grade!

So really what I went from was a grade 8 education to a grade 6 education. It was truly like fingerpainting all over again.

Given that grade 6 was behind what I had learned in grade 6 in England, it was technically like going to grade 4 or 5! It just got worse!

Needless to say, being VERY hyperactive and extroverted, school quickly became boring and I sought new avenues for entertainment, commonly known out here as...'the class clown'. :p

A few years into high school, the parents did the divorce thing and as any mature, level headed teen would do, I became the rebel until finally dropping out halfway through grade 11.

Now there are MANY MANY factors that have conducted my life experiences up until now, I am certainly not one to blame success or failure on education. I am actually one that believes and has proven you can do and achieve anything you choose with the right drive.

There is without a doubt though that the level and quality of student teacher interaction, DISCIPLINE and study were FAR more captivating in England than Canada. I definitely got 'ripped' off so to speak as it didn't amuseme, didn't interest me and each year was so similar to the last as far as new studies.

But I LOVED Auto (3-blocks a day with an EXCELLENT instructor) Machining in high school was also well equipped and taught and captivated me.

BUT..what THEY deemed important (Math, science English, FRENCH, socials) wasn't taught well nor well progressed throughout the different grades.

blah, blah, blah, sorry

Whatever, just a real life example of the lack of OOMPH you get in a public education out here. :)

Both of these posts are REALLY well said...

Salamander: Very good view

Maxwell: I particularly liked your pointing out where the childrens issues really reside.

Thanks...I enjoyed reading these!

okay that was fowl...but I see both your views from the outside and you are so close to common ground here now, it's killing me.

I have friends who have made millions and friends that are labourers. I hang with everyone without judgement just as I am sure you do. People are very grounded in England, that's what makes it so strong ("Rule Britania" and all that).

Max's comments were based on a pretty famous book that basically means set your own goals and do what you can to be as best as you can personally be, don't let your own beliefs become limitations.

The turkey simply represents your own complacency in who you are, "This is what I am and always will be" or "I walk like a duck, I talk like a duck I must be ...." (Ducks, Turkeys, Eagles, pigeons... :) )

There is no suggestion that one achives MORE than others and looks down upon them. Just that one can be more than he thinks he can be or is.

I agree with Maxwell: educating a child is also the parent's responsibility.

As for public schools, my experience was different from Oz's. I went to public school in a rural environment. The classes were small, and we had teachers who cared about us. Sure, we didn't have new books or even air conditioning (which is apparently a requirement now. Go figure), but we learned a lot because people cared about us. As a result of that experience, I don't believe that throwing money at schools necessarily results in a good education.

That said, I left high school at age 16 to attend college. My state permits students who have a B average or higher to attend any public college, free of cost, for their junior and senior years, as long as they maintained that average. I was fortunate to have had that opportunity; many kids in other places did not have those opportunities. I also got a healthy push from the Parental Unit to do so, which goes back to the parenting issue.

I think that it's important to teach everybody to be a productive member of society. However, I think a lot of places ignore kids who can pass the standardized tests. In an ideal society, I'd like to see the old "talented and gifted programs" reinstated in schools.

The U.S. spends more per capita on child education than any other nation in the world. Why can't we perform better than we do?

I am not saying I went to mass production high schools. Th eschool in Sydney Nova Scotia was TINY, but the LEVEL of the material being taught was hideously below what I had learned in similar grades at an earlier age in England. There was very littl eadvancementexpected each year through school, grades 6-10 were simply ammendments to teh prior year, not a whole new challenge each year, if you were sailing through grade 10 you could handle grade 12 work. Grade 11 was irrelevant.

I guess it just took longer to learn here than it did in England because everyone wasn't on the same page. In England they quickly get you on the same page or raise the bar to keep you at your learning level.

We have a lot of the same problems with the curricula not being especially demanding here in the U.S. Makes me think more and more that it is the way that we teach in North America and our expectations that produce the result?

It could also be that we get rippe doff for public education.

Sink a little money into our kids please Mr. Martin!

Some of the new school being built around Vancouver are amazing, they are like garden filled atriums with desks and computers in them.

Now, start paying the teachers to do a good job, if they still don't wake up hire some new ones with fresh interest in teching children. Kids are like sponges, don't let them just sit and dry out!

...where exactly does the money go? I think that it would be helpful for taxpayers to understand if governments would readily issue a breakdown of where the money goes: facilities, salaries, activities, etc. It would help all of us better understand how things work.

I suppose that the key word here is "readily." All that info is public record, and could be FOIA'd. But it would really be helpful for this information to be common knowledge.

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On average, almost $10,000 is spent per student per year on public school education in the United States. (By contrast, look up how much the average private school tuition is.) In Utah and Iowa, the average per student on public school education is around $4,000. In Washington D.C. and New Jersey, the average is almost $14,000. However, the results of those school districts puts the Utah and Iowa students continually scoring at the top, while in Washington D.C. and New Jersey, students continually score at the bottom. What's wrong with this picture?

Hint: compare how parents in Utah and Iowa might be more involved than parents in D.C. They could spend $100,000 per student, and still get the same abysmal results.

(Note: My numbers are estimates taken from memory, but the exact numbers will be close to mine.)

Maxwell...Wow. I had no idea that we spent *that much.*

But those numbers just go to prove...it ain't about the money.

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Based on my interpretation of what you said and/or did not say in the few posts of yours that I've read, including messages from different threads, it appears to me that you don't get it. I primarily say this because my metaphoric eagle does not prey on my metaphoric turkey. And only a metaphoric turkey would suggest such a thing.

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In my state, the spending on pre-college public education is around $7,000. To be sure, you could compare cost of living, cost of real estate, and so on, and some of the difference could fall into that kind of category. Then you might throw in things like security measures necessary in D.C. where they may not be much of a factor in Iowa. (Security for "gang" type issues, not to protect politician's kids -- who usually go to private schools.) Then you might have before and after school care differences. Then you might have transportation issues in D.C. that may not exist in a small town in Iowa.

But I would be willing to guess that there are three or more times the administrators, per student, in D.C. than in Iowa. I would guess that there is more remedial and special education needs. I would guess that there are more drug related issues to deal with. But I would also guess that the parents in D.C. don't care and don't take their responsibility as seriously as parents in Iowa. (Or they don't know how to.)

(Man, am I setting myself up for flaming from D.C. parents, or what?)

Have the equation set up as this:

Controlling for population size (and a host of other control variables I can't summon up off the top of my head), does the number of administrators (as a percent of total budget) have a statistically significant effect on the dependent variables of test scores, college placement, and graduation rate?

Could be interesting to see how that shakes out.

Nobody would probably pay any attention to the findings, anyway...

SO I won't flame you.

That $10,000.00 (without contesting actual numbers) does not neccessaily go towards building better programs or getting better teachers though. Not sure if that was what you were implying, but I doubt it.

I have done some piece work to help a friend who builds panels. Wallboards, blackboards, whiteboards, bathroom stall walls etc. Anything where a piece of laminated wood is needed, they also build lockers for all the schools here.

A whiteboard NORMALLY valued at $300.00 is nearly $800.00 by the time the school gets it, PLUS installation.

Lockers were a BLAST to go and whack together! You would make them by pop-riveting steel panels together in order to make 3 lockers at a time, they then are put into banks and lined up as we all know.
They are not built in banks, they are not built one by one but in threes (just the way they are designed.)

The company would pay us piece work ($3 per locker) When you got the rhythm down, it would take less than 3 minutes to make a block of 3 lockers. That's $9 in 3 minutes!! $190.00/hr

We would work all weekend, sometimes 10-14 hr shifts, with plenty of relax time as it ws piece work. Throw 2000-3000 lockers together and make a FISTFULL!!

The company also got this contract year after year without fail because they were one of the ONLY company's that had people locally to build onsite,and were the most competetive.

Now this is just doing labour work at this point, the lowest paid on the totem pole. If they were paying us $180/hr, how much do you think the school board paid, not including the materials and exorbitant markup?

Now when we look at the BIG picture and all the government contracts handed out for the schools, including; ceiling tiles, floor tiles, desks, painters, heating and air conditioning fitters etc., just over the summer break, then add ot that the operational costs, salaries, paper, business machines and computers etc.

That $10,000 per student goes pretty darn quick, and the kids haven't been taught anything yet.

I would be interested to see how much of that DIRECTLY, goes into higher education standards for them researching new tecnologies to teach, up to date psychology training to better understand and teach them with etc.

How much do the kids gain? $10,0000 may seem like a lot, but how much does real "education" cost?

The school's average spending equated to a per student cost doesn't really say anything does it?

P.S. In the case of Private schools,most of these building costs are paid for by private donations and sponsorship that tuition costs vs government spending don't reflect.

MAX: I am not mimizing your focus on good parenting skils, but there are good kids than can and do want to learn, that simply are squashed by the low level taught in public schools, more attention to these poeple would see them in programs designed to build on their ability too.

Such programs are always too expensive though, placing overpriced bathrooms ahead of education.

Maxwell's original post. I assumed it was biblical and scratched my memory and Googled a bit and this seemed to fit. I don't generalise in this way and I really don't like trite phrases so don't blame me if you read something into my wrong interpretation of Max's cryptic thread! That would be foolish!

I offer the following poem for insight to my character

One early summer's day when all things seem new-born
A robin perched on my window ledge to greet the coming dawn
It chirped for hours, so sweetly, as I lay there in my bed
I crossed over to the window and crushed its f*cking head

Who the hell do I think I am? Is this a trick question? Well, I'm me.

"You never know here, straight faces don't usually work."
Meaning that we often get the wrong idea and assume the tone or intent of a post. So tongue in cheek or 'straight faces' usually don't work.

I actually meant the rest of the post as a joke.

An absurd example to reinforce my opening statement.

You had mentioned 13:20

13:20
He who walks with the wise grows wise,
but a companion of fools suffers harm.

SO as a 'larf' I took your comment and ran with it.

point proven I suppose. Holding a straight face doesn't work, nobody can see you anyway.

Oz, I think (know) we're on the same wavelength. NONE of this threadette is serious - hence the "foolish" reference in my last post back to yours. I think I'm trying too hard!

Aaaagh! The smoke alarm!

Damn! And this is not funny! I was so busy trying to get this right that I forgot my breakfast (brunch) toast was under the grill.

I hold you and Max PERSONALLY responsible for the loss of my last bread.

Neil

p.s Is there any approved way of indicating the post is not what it seems without giving the game away?

As far as what you need to know, it's no different than in real life. It takes more than one pint with a guy before you can tell him to FO without offending him. :)

In the case of TR you do get ot know people and understand their meaning but it just takes longer without the facial expressions and body language I guess.

Some people are known to be sarcastic and after a while, you take everything tongue in cheek as you expect it. Others you will be joking along for three posts and then realize the other guy is actually serious. It usually ends up in some headwreacker like this.

Oh well, cheers mate! :D
OM

I've only been posting to Oz and Max in this thread so the "all and sundry" is a *little* over the top. I have no problem with Oz and hope he has none with me. I think if I overstep the mark he'll try to put me right without your help. I think, also, we have enough common ground to both agree and disagree amicably.

Max? Well, my only earlier "action" with Max was when he arrived in a thread that I had started. In he came accusing me of "judging" and then "bashing" the US when what I was obviously doing was criticising SUV drivers. Then, when I didn't "get" his clever Jesus-related automobile list, I think he lost it. And YOU accuse ME of "virulent xenophobia"? Anyway, if that was erudition and logic then I think our definitions are different. I fear that Max and I do not have sufficient common ground to discuss anything rationally but I'm willing to try even at the cost of being "murdered" and "devastated". Possibly it may be the same for you and me but I can take it.

Just like I *really* don't "get" this Eagle/Turkey thread - or at least what was the point of starting it. I *am* a foreigner from the perspectives of you and Max and obviously have very different cultural references in large issues and in small ones such as the names of cars and the relevance of ambiguous trite sayings. I'm also an atheist and have been since schooldays so the bible references common in the US go straight over my head. However, and it's a biggie, this is an *international* forum and I don't think you've really "got" that else you wouldn't so blithely assume, for instance, that "sophomoric" translates. Oh, and you might want to cut down on the cutesy Americanisms. If I translate "kick your butt" correctly then you are easily pleased by small victories.

"Sorry if this comes across as a little patronizing or condescending but you have been asking for it". It does come over a lot patronising and condescending (hyperbole, more likely a tautology, by the way) but if it makes you feel good then go ahead. I started reading and finally posting to TR Miscellaneous for recreation - fun - and to while away a little time so it really isn't anything to get upset about if some redneck swings a punch.

How clever of you to pick up on the Shrike reference and turn it back on me and you not "up to speed" yet. How can I possibly live in such an intellectually astute grouping? Though I might not be as bright as you, at least I know how to use the CR key to make my post more readable even if the scintillating content is lacking when compared to yours.

See you later,

Neil

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Nothing could be further from the truth, and that suggestion is simply preposterous. You certainly can't "read" these messages very well. One can only assume it's because you have a predisposition to be led in a certain direction.

Yes, from my perspective. During the thread I started on SUVs your first post started by accusing me of "being silly" and "judging the US" - which I wasn't. I asking *everyone* to question their use of the Earths natural resources.

I'm sorry for kicking off on your "Jesus Drives" post because I really didn't see it. If I don't understand either the religious or car-name aspects of the post then I can't really be blamed for getting it wrong. Communication requires the synch of sender and receiver.

The following posts were not particularly enlightening for either of us because you made it obvious that "Global Warming" is something you don't believe in and is something that I consider so much more important than the "War Against Terrorism". And no common ground at all does not make for good discussion. You started on pollution and I'm still discussing Global Warming - waste of time.

Later - "You go from bashing the USA to bashing me. I suppose we now know what your agenda is." That comes over just a little paranoid, Max, as I have absolutely no agenda that relates to you - or the US - in any way.

Your post to jdmercha@syr.edu stated that "The whole point of his argument is that another person (or other people), even if separated by thousands of miles of ocean, have a right to dictate how you live your life. Don't you see?"

Wow! This is a Tech Forum water cooler. The Friday Yuk is a big event. What? Am I trying to subvert the foundations of the USA with a post on SUVs?

Yes. Lost it.

I'm sorry we have no common ground to discuss this or, unfortunately, probably any other topic.

Neil

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These are the kinds of tangents that go absolutely nowhere. But I think I'll just let you go on without me.

Bye

1) Never mention the USA unless in praise, you will be deemed Anti-American from the most basic of views to being a terrorist, if you really don't go for what the government's do.

2) ANY comment regarding ANYTHING American is a direct and full contact kick in the nuts to most Americans, redardless of how it is directed.

3) Anything your country has ever done, was never as big as what the US has done, never will be either, if it is, it is only that way because of America's help. In fact without America's contribitions through time, we would have all perished long before we discovered America.

4) America is THE governmentr to be admired and praised for it's actions, any dislike of government action will once again be grounds for a flaming (see numbers 1 & 2). If not a call to the FBI to report terorrism on the Internet.

Once you understand that, it all goes pretty easy here.

You are right that this is an international water cooler, but only in our foreign eyes because we are jealous and wish we could be Americans but are forced to simply hold some form of pride in what we are stuck with.

Just a collection of realizations from past experiences. But how does this differ from what is commonly known anyway?

Now it's my turn for a flaming I'm sure, wouldn't be the first and it ISN'T going to be the last.

WFTDR

But it's nice to have someone set it out nicely rather than beat it in with a club.

Thanks, mate.

Neil

Most people here aren't all that bad,some are even pretty cool and can take a little slap in fun, some take it to the next level though, you'll soon see who can have fun and who can't.

I used to have the same impression of Max as you have, when I first got here. (We fought like cats and dogs over anythign and everything) In fact it made me start a psychology study on personailty traits in groups in forums.

Then I recognized that Max just takes his politics quite personally and is easily rubbed the wrong way in that respect. For the most part we all get along just fine here, as long as it doesn't become personal. Once I started to give Max's posts a read without posting rebuttals, I found out that we actually agree on more than we disagree on, we have the same ideas about the industry, finding work, staying positive etc. We do live in different countries and have VERY different sets of beliefs though as we were raised in completely different environments. I take this into consideration now, more than just spouting personal feelings, and it seems that we are able to share comments without it misunderstanding our intents.

Your personal political views will be challenged, your comments regarding different countries (not just the USA) will be challenged by many.

When it comes to helping each other out this is a great source of valued knowlegde (well..the Tech Q&A forum is).

Some people come here and make absurd comments off the cuff, then people find out they are serious about it. Others will make the same comment but as they are well known, people know it's just in fun and take it at face value.

Like I say, once your intent is not seen as malicious, it gets pretty easy to enjoy yourself without offending people, THEN some new guy comes along and you go through it all over again. Gotta love internet forums!

I can tell most people here to get bent without offending them, yet others will raise hell and complain to the editors about it. Just takes time, like a new school. :D

You left the first inflamatory post for just long enough and then smoooooothed it over. Nice...

I've said in an earlier post that I like the US and spent the last 5 out of 6 vacations in the US. It would have been 6 out of 6 as we were bound for Sarasota, FL in early October but I couldn't fly because of an ear operation. Good turn in the end because I think W Florida was washed away last Fall and we were able to drive across the whole of France without stopping (what a treat) instead.

I think, with Max, I will not post until I find *some* common ground to disagree. I can't take politics seriously - it has politicians - except when they cause wars and we've both done that. As you well know, the English do patriotism about as much as the Canadians so nothing there. Can't talk Global Warming 'cos that's why he bit my first leg off. I'm sure that we both dislike the French but doesn't everyone? Religion - Nah?

I suspect that Max doesn't care that we just stuffed South Africa at cricket. What do you mean? He doesn't know?

Neil

Chill out guys. How many post here are actually fully truthful? How many people put on some sort of alter ego? How many of you have egged someone on?

You spew this hateful, degrading crap, then claim it's all in fun and that it's meant to get a rise out of someone? At least have the cojones to stand behind the crap you write.

Do you mean 'Kahunas'?

That term 'COJONES'is not English it is Spanish. We speak english in these here parts.

What is the matter you can't take ribbing? Or is it you lack the 'cojones' to part take?

Cojones is where Bobbit stopped....but in your case.............she'd probably reconsider if you had them.

Yes, of course I can take a ribbing. No problem. I didn't know what the rules were. So, here it goes. Perhaps your fear and hatred of women stem from the fact that you are a closet case. There is NO shame in accepting who you are. Or perhaps, your need to 'put women in their place' is because you have been surrounded by women who have surpassed you in the workplace? Perhaps, based on a previous comment you made regarding 'having a few women yourself' you feel that objectifying females helps squelch the fear and anger you feel toward women. In any case, your feeble attempts at humor on the subject are embarrassing at best.

I like this game. Who knew 'banter' could be so cathartic?

Courtesy of Mr Lennon and Mr McCartney.

You will give me prior warning if *I* start to upset you, won't you?

Please?

Neil ;-)

I'm actually a very nice person.