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Designing/Implementing a new network.

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by jbbe2

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I've been in the tech field for about 10yrs. I have been assigned to a project of creating a network with about 60 workstations,wireless access etc. I've been involved with networking, so I have a basic understanding. To create a network from scratch is something completely different. Any recommendations on where to start - equipment, serviers, software. The project is for a public computer center.

38 replies

by bfilmfan

I would recommend that you should hire experienced data center architects and subject matter experts for the varous technical disciplines and fill the role of project manager yourself.

No one person can be an expert in all the knowledge that is required to build a datacenter.

by cg it

Well, first off one must decide on the platform your going to use e.g. Windows based, Novell, Sun Solaris, Linux. From there you've got to know physical topology, functional topology, security requirements, WAN/LAN connections and expected utilization.

You mention a public computer center but that doesn't tell us much. Internet cafe? etc.

There really aren't generic books about network design. Those available are by platform like Cisco internetworks, Microsoft Infrastructure, etc etc.

by jtakiwi

Is this a charity thing, or a professional engagement? In a nutshell, define what you are trying to accomplish (internet cafe, computer training) decide on connectivity requirements(based on number of users), security requirements, wiring requirments, maybe wireless, what type of device will end users be utilizing? Thin client, desktop pc's etc... What apps you need to run will determine the server os you will run. Who will maintain it? Is remote access required, if so, you may want to figure in a firewall w/ vpn capability. Don't forget AV and possibly web filtering. As I write this, I realize that it is much easier to do the initial design if you have active communication w/ the requestor of the network. You can email me w/ ?'s

by jbbe2

Thank you for the information so far, just to answer some of the questions: It's basically for computer learning. The center is located between elementry schools and a Adult living center. The goal is to provide access for individuals who may not have access to a computer in any shape or form. Of course there will be the Microsoft Office Suite, photoshop and such programs. The main purpose is so that the school children will be able to come over as a class and do lessons with their teacher. I have the design of the center, with the estimated workstations & servers. When I get to my office on Monday, I can post some of the information, if anything I'll have ideas from the responses. I really think somebody started this project backwards.

by cg it

Given your response back to us about what the computer learning center will be for, typically a center for kids and adults, its a lot easier to give suggestions.

Because this is a learning center and not a business, there probably won't be much growth to factor in [more sites, more workstations]. The physical hardware requirements would appear to be static in the forseeable future. Since the learning center will be for school age kids [what age?] and adults, internet access is a given and you'll need to plan on having ALL 60 workstations accessing at one time to determine what type of connection you'll need [best to plan worse case]. Whats the budget in rough terms. your budget will also play a big role in physical structure.

You also need to come up with a domain name for your learning center. If not immediately, at some time your gonna want a web presence, so deciding now what your public domain name is would be a good idea.

Security will be a big factor in the planning process. Users are the variable as they will constantly change, therefore one would plan on using a global group and creating a generic account that all users will use, assing that account to the security group, then for the applications that users will access create a domain local group for the resources like printers, programs. add the global group to the domain local group and assing permissions. Since a per user license seat would not be effective here if you choose a Windows Platform, I would go with a per server [per computer] licensing.

Right off the bat, For an server operating system, I would recommend Microsofts Small Business Server 2003 Premium Edition [simply because thats what we use] and Windows XP Professional. SBS 2003 allows up to 75 connection [per server licensing] of workstations and member servers. Comes with Exchange 2003, SQL Server 2000 and ISA server 2000. I would also purchase Windows Server 2003 standard edition with 5 licenses [not CALs].

The reaso

by cg it

The reason for Windows Server 2003 standard edition with 5 licenses [not CALs], is that I would have SBS on one box [which is a DC in itself] and a second DC on a seperate box which runs the Windows Server 2003. Optionally I would have a DHCP server. I would also plan on a terminal Services server to provide applications rather than installing em on all 60 workstations [though that kinda is a 6 of one half dozen of the other choice].

I would use managed switches on the LAN. Never know when you might want to subnet out a group of computers off in a corner somewhere.

I would go with a hardware firewall appliance between the internet and your network, perferably with 2 WAN ports that provide redundancy and a ISDN failover. I would also use a small # of ports [maybe 8] managed switch between the firewall appliance and your LAN. Just never know when you want a DMZ for a web server or whatever and a managed switch between the firewall and the network can provide you with the ability to hookup computers off the network that have internet connectivity.

by cg it

We run Norton Corporate Antivirus here. We like it because we can basically configure it to automatically obtain new definitions on a schedule, push those to clients, schedule network wide scans or individual computers scans, quarrentine, delete, submit and send us an email report of the whole thing. Pretty automatic program and we like not having to worry about AV. It also has email scanning for Exchange Server.

We use GFI Webmon for ISA server which gives us reports on computer by name and users by name who access the internet and a wealth of other information. Handy tool.

For workstations, I would go wired. I would have a wireless public access point in there for adults who come in and thats where the managed switch between the firewall and the LAN comes in handy. The 60 workstations are for school kids and adults to learn computers so I would make that it's own entity. I would also provide public wireless access but not on the same network as the 60 workstations. Kinda like a public library. You can bring your own laptop and do work or surf the net but to access library materials you gotta use the library equipment. Thats the principle I would use for the community computer center.

by cg it

Hardware....we build our own so can't really recommend Dell or HP but I would make sure that if you use terminal services, the server has enough HP for all 60 accessing programs at one time [dual processor and a ton of memory, SCSI 320 drives. Could get away with SATA drives but I would go SCSI].

Workstation hardware...ya have to decide what your gonna do. Terminal Services or have the programs loaded on each one. Once you determine that, then you can decide on what type. Thin or stand alone. Again we build our own so can't really say Dell, HP etc.

by razz2

WOW, CG IT has set you up nice, but budget wise his design will be up there. Since this is public I will assume the budget is low so,

Windows SBS 2003 would work but if you will never need SQL, or Exchange then 2003 STD will be fine too. The SBS is cheaper for the included software though. Do be aware of it's limitations and how they may relate to your project. SBS must be installed as the root of the AD forest and must hold all master roles. Also and domain trusts are not possible. Also note the SBS with 5 licenses (NOT CALS) as CG IT says is not correct. When you buy server software in shrink wrap it includeds 1 license for install and 5 Client Access Licenses (CALS). In your design the CALS will most likly be setup as per device, but a SBS CAL is different from a server 2003 CAL as the SBS one includes SQL Exchange and the rest in the CAL. Therefore they more $$$ and you would need licenses for both SBS and 2003 server in his design. That matters if you end up growing.

I also like the Symantec Norton Corp Edition which is cost effective, easy setup and updates.

On the firewall I would go with a good hardware one such as Sonicwall or Watchguard or the like. Get one with VPN abilities, and a DMZ port and maybe some good web filtering.

I understand the mentions of Terminal Services, but be aware that TS licensing is not cheap and in a public funded project you can save $$$ by local install of apps. Also, TS can not be run on a SBS 2003 box. You must have a seperate 2003 server as mentioned here:

http://www.microsoft.com/windowsserver2003/sbs/techinfo/overview/generalfaq.mspx

Just make sure your licensing is correct. 60 CP's is 60 licenses for office etc, 60 CALs for the server and well you get it.

For the hardware, I use Compaq/HP Proliant but the argument could be made for and good server. Go with something above "Entry Level". In this type of project install a more expensive product with a better chance of long life. Maybe a Proliant ML370.

by razz2

Do business class workstations. On the server do RAID and a ton of RAM and HDD space.

Buy a really good switch. The argument could be made for managed or not so that is up to your needs. A Cisco or Procurve un-managed would do you fine but if you are in need of the advanced feature mentioned by CG IT then do it now.

Good Luck,

razz

by razz2

Also, setup each station the same and ghost one so restore to original is easy. Do the server too, but if user data is stored there then get a good backup system. If the server is static then ghost a image is fine.

THINK SECURITY!

Rename admin account and don't use "Everyone in permissions or shares. Lock the stations down with Group Policy and secure wireless if used but I would cable the workstations. Encrypt traffic and I would also remove any un-used services.

razz

by awfernald

As far as servers/clients, I think the others have it covered, however, you also need to be thinking about your server room/network closet/cabling requirements as well.

For this project, you don't need anything more than Cat5e cabling, however, you definitely want to go with plenum type cabling for safety reasons (gives off significantly less toxic smoke in a fire).

Based upon your experience, determine the quantity of servers and associated equipment that you will need (hubs, routers, WAN modems, etc...), then map out the way you will be planning your rack space.

With 60 computers, you will probably want to have 4 48 port patch panels, then run your hub/switch to patch panel, on two panels, then patch panel to walljack on the other two. To keep this as clean and organized as possible, look for the patch panels that don't require patch cables, or keep the patch cables as short as possible. Keeping this area clean and organized will help you several years in the future when you have to troubleshoot a network problem.

Also, you need to determine your power requirements, power backup requirements (UPS), determine if you want to cover all the computers, just the servers, etc...

by cg it

In response to Razz, I suggested getting 5 licenses for Windows Server 2003 for growth. I use the CALs on the Windows Small Business Server 2003 Premium Edition on a per connection basis. The SBS 2003 allows up to 75 connections [computer connections which includes member servers]. Since your going to have a static # of workstations like in a library and they are shared public computers, go that route. The licenses for the server are so you can add a second domain controller for redundancy and member server like a file server later on if necessary. Note you can install SQL DB on another drive and SBS recommends that you do, As well as Exchange DB. Thats where the extra licenses for Windows Server 2003 come in handy.

Yeah, my way is probably expensive. With the servers, workstations, monitors, KBs, Mice, SBS 2003 premium, 60 CALs, hardware, stack managed switches, a hardware firewall, a wireless access point off the network but still using the internet connection, Office 2003 and all licensing for that, Norton Corporate Antivirus and licensing and all the little stuff one never remembers like heavy duty UPS, plus labor for setup, probably upwards of $70 to $80k USD when everything is all done and tallied. You probably could get a deal on the software licensing and hardware and if you shop around for a MCSE looking for work, get a deal on 10 day setup time which should include all configuration of both servers and workstations and bug fixing. Theres always bugs. Hardware, software, cables, firwalls, GPs that don't work, a workstation that just isn't right.

Note: I would opt for rack mount on all hardware though. 2U in a rack so you can have the everything [servers, switches, firewall in a lockable room].

by cg it

An AMD based 2U rackmount server with all the fixings/trimmings [SCSI]will run ya about $4k USD retail. figure 2 of those minimum if you run Windows SBS Server 2003 premium. HP or Dell workstations. Now if you place an order for 60 of those puppies with XP Pro installed betcha you get a deal. Heck, Good steady desktop workstations right now are cheap. $300.00 to $400 USD without monitors. Now monitors in a public setting is tricky. Everyone loves LCD screens but ya know, kids are kids and snot, drinks, pencil poking, scribbling, button pushing, isn't very kind to LCD screens. Pixels tend to not like pencils, snot, drinks, scribbling and play dead [usually are dead]. If you can get a glass protective screen great! If not, might be something to consider. Monitors do take up a ton of space but will take pencil poking, snot, drink splashes on the screen, and with a little screen cleaner, bounce right back.

Same with keyboards and mice. Cheap, drink resistant, and cheap. Did I say cheap?

by cg it

humm if you want cost quote for the entire job and are going the Windows Platform with Office, find a microsoft partner :) who can try and get you a really good deal that includes upgrades to the software when new stuff comes out [like in the next 2 years. Like I said, my way is probably expensive. All hardware will run ya about $45 to $50k thats everything from cables to mice to SCSI file servers to a shared printer {HP heavy duty laser network printer} to a tape backup and tapes [Veritas]. Labor for installation of hardware, cable routing, operating system installation, Domain setup, users, Group Policy computer and user configuration [mandatory profiles], workstation setup, network testing, workstation testing [checking all 60 of em] will be about $20 to $30k [20 day start to finish]which includes 1 year service agreement [thats about $5 to $7k depending upon what type of service you want].

by jbbe2

Thanks for all of the great information. I'm pretty sure that I will talk to the group about hiring a company to set it up. The more I'm reading, the more positive that it is over my head. I can better serve the project in the maintence portion, rather than setting up the network. I plan on being there for the installation. Microsoft Sysprep, has anyone had experience using this software.

by jbbe2

For outsourcing, what should I be looking for? The project is in bronx, ny - any recommendations?

by cg it

Sysprep is just a method of installation. Do a RIS installation of Windows XP on the 60 workstations. Either get workstations with PXE NICs or use the bootable floppy. I like PXE installs.

Outsourcing. If your really really interested in outsourcing this, and this is a real project, you might want to contact these guys in NY NY Lloyd Consulting
263 West 38th Street
7th Floor

New York City
New York
10018
United States
They are a Microsoft Gold Partner in infrastructure

Here's their capabilities

Networking Infrastructure Solutions (11 References)
Small Business Server Implementation
Windows Server Implementation
Advanced Infrastructure Solutions (7 References)
Active Directory Design and Deployment
Exchange Migration or Deployment
Data Management / Migration and Server
Consolidation
Storage Solutions
Microsoft Identity Integration Server
Systems Management

Support Services Offered: Installation Services, Configuration Services, Availability Services, On-site Support-guaranteed Response Time, Outsourced Helpdesk, Proactive Support Services: ITIL, MOF, etc.

I'm not with these guys, however they can help ya out or find other Partners in your area who can. They can also hook you up with volume licensing deals

by cg it

I mentioned these guys because on a quick and dirty search for Microsoft Partners in infrastructre competency in NYC they popped up.

There are ratings and levels in the Microsoft Partner program. Gold, Certified, and Registered. Registered, thats me, means we are just the little peon guys. Certified means they sold Microsoft stuff to a certain amount of clients who liked what they did and have 3 or more MCSEs on staff. Gold means they not only sell the stuff but service it as well and have a bunch of MCSEs MCDBA, MCTs on staff or part of their program.

by jbbe2

Here is the equipment & software that has been ordered by the ceo:
1. Power Edge 2800 3.0Ghz/1mb Cache Xeon 800 MHz front side bus ? 2gb DDR2 400MHz (2X1GB) Single Ranked Dimms
a. 4x36 GB 10K rpm Ultra 320 SCSI hd
b. Embedded Raid ? PERC4 Embeddedintegrated
c. W2K3 Server Standard Edition, 5 CAL
d. Windows Server 2003-Charity Open License Program CAL
e. UPS, 1500 Stand Alone 120 Volt
2. PowerConnect 6024, Layer 3 Switch, 24 port 10/100/1000 gbe and 8 Port GB SFP
3. PowerConnect 5324 Managed Switch, 24 port 10/100/1000 Mbps with 4 SFFP slots(combo ports)
4. Firebox X500
5. XSR-1850 Security Router for Branch Offices
6. 2 Port fractional T1/E1 DSU/CSU
7. Dell workgroup laser printer M5200N
8. Dell 5100cn Color Laser Printer
9. OneTouch 9220 USB Scanner
10. F-Scan-s001US Biometrics Fingerprint Scanner
11. Symantec Antivirus Enterprise ?
12. OptiPlex GX280, 2.80 GHZ Pentium 4 ? Gigabit NIC ? 512MB
13. Dell E173FP, 17 inch Flat Panel Monitor

by jbbe2

Here is the equipment & software that has been ordered by the ceo:
1. Power Edge 2800 3.0Ghz/1mb Cache Xeon 800 MHz front side bus ? 2gb DDR2 400MHz (2X1GB) Single Ranked Dimms
a. 4x36 GB 10K rpm Ultra 320 SCSI hd
b. Embedded Raid ? PERC4 Embeddedintegrated
c. W2K3 Server Standard Edition, 5 CAL
d. Windows Server 2003-Charity Open License Program CAL
e. UPS, 1500 Stand Alone 120 Volt
2. PowerConnect 6024, Layer 3 Switch, 24 port 10/100/1000 gbe and 8 Port GB SFP
3. PowerConnect 5324 Managed Switch, 24 port 10/100/1000 Mbps with 4 SFFP slots(combo ports)
4. Firebox X500
5. XSR-1850 Security Router for Branch Offices
6. 2 Port fractional T1/E1 DSU/CSU
7. Dell workgroup laser printer M5200N
8. Dell 5100cn Color Laser Printer
9. OneTouch 9220 USB Scanner
10. F-Scan-s001US Biometrics Fingerprint Scanner
11. Symantec Antivirus Enterprise ?
12. OptiPlex GX280, 2.80 GHZ Pentium 4 ? Gigabit NIC ? 512MB
13. Dell E173FP, 17 inch Flat Panel Monitor

by ctmoore1998

See my answer for the infrastructure Audits question. Planning is the first stage since you will be running wireless you also need to keep in mind wireless security issues. Whereever possible I try and limit wireless access to internet only, but that isn't always possible. So you might end up with 2 different wireless networks as it seems that a lot of users want an 'open' wireless network that visitors can connect to plus a wireless access to corporate assets.

by jbbe2

I thank everybody for their answers. Everything was helpful and informative.

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