INFORMATION AS A FOUNDATION

Absolute in ranges!

...as mud.

You clearly hold a different set of values.

Don't believe Timothy Leary on that subject.

What do Newton's Laws have to do with anything you've claimed?

I expect he'll sh*t himself when he sees how well-prepared you are for questions he could only answer by shouting. Not that I'm impressed, but he should be.

Dr. Claude Swanson builds scientific evidence in support of the paranormal.

Contact Dr. Claude Swanson claude_v_swanson@yahoo.com
3107 West Colorado Ave., #188
Colorado Springs, Colorado 80904

Visit Dr. Claude Swanson's website synchronizeduniverse.com

Dr. Claude Swanson was educated as a physicist at MIT and Princeton University. During those years he worked at the MIT Science Teaching Center, Brookhaven National Laboratory and a Virginia cyclotron in the summer. At Princeton he received the National Science Foundation Fellowship and Putnam Fellowship. His Ph.D. thesis at Princeton was done in the "Gravity Group," which focuses on experimental cosmology and astronomy, and was headed by Nobel laureate Robert Dicke. His thesis advisor was Prof. David Wilkinson, who later became chairman of the physics department.

Swanson conducted postgraduate work at Princeton and Cornell Universities on the design of superconducting plasma containment vessels for fusion energy systems. He then began work for Aeronautical Research Associates of Princeton, a consulting company, and later formed his own consulting company which carried out studies in applied physics for commercial and governmental agencies, including DuPont, United Technologies, the U.S. Army and Navy, DARPA and the CIA, among many others.

For the last fifteen years, interspersed with his conventional professional career in applied physics, Dr. Swanson has pursued investigations into "unconventional physics." His principal interest has been unified field theory, the so-called "Theory of Everything" which could explain the universe at the deepest possible level. This has led him to investigate many aspects of the paranormal, which appear to be completely real phenomena which violate our present science. Paranormal phenomena, which have now been proven in the laboratory in many cases, offer a window into the deeper universe, the mysteries of consciousness, and unlock new forces and principles which conventional science has only begun to glimpse.

Among paranormal phenomena which are now known, it has been found that signals can move much faster than light, and the human consciousness and even human influence, can move backward and forward in time. Science fiction concepts such as teleportation and levitation seem to occur in reality in paranormal events, and offer powerful evidence that this will be the new frontier of science.

At the same time, thousands of out-of-body and near-death experiences show that other dimensions and other realities do exist. This has been the domain of speculation by theoretical physics, but OBE and NDE cases indicate that parallel realities and dimensions are in some sense real. And finally, paranormal research suggests that the human soul, the center of human consciousness, can survive death and is apparently an energy form which can move and exist independently of the body. Science is discovering that, in the words of the pioneer Robert Monroe, " we are far more than our physical bodies."

Dr. Swanson has conducted extensive research in these areas, including research of the scientific literature, interviews with scientists in these fields, attended and spoken at conferences, and conducted experiments and investigations, to better understand how such paranormal phenomena can be incorporated into modern science.

This research has involved underwater archaeology in Bimini, scientific measurements in haunted houses, experiments in remote viewing and psychokinesis, and testing of new devices which can measure these strange forces. He has just published a book, The Synchronized Universe, which summarizes some of the new discoveries of this emerging science
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Military research into OBEs.
For more than 20 years, the United States military has had a budget of seventy million dollars a year for the purpose of psychic research with special emphasis on 'remote viewing' - a military use of out of body experiences.

Remote viewing is where a gifted astral projector will move out of his/her physical body, travel to a specific area to observe a target then return to the physical body to report what he/she has seen.

Stunning as it may sound to those who are uninitiated in psychic phenomena, these and greater things have been done and are being done to-day in the United States, Russia, China. France has kept quiet about it but they do have the population and the advanced psychic knowledge to participate in remote viewing.

In his most interesting book, Remote Viewers - The Secret History of America's Psychic Spies, (1997) Jim Schnabel cites a number of highly credible sources, including an American President, about the reality of the out of body experience applied for military objectives.
Here are some of them making some stunning statements which by now have found their place in the history books of the psychic phenomena:

'I never liked to get into debates with the skeptics, because if
you didn't believe that remote viewing was real, you hadn't
done your homework.'
Major General Edmund R Thompson, U.S. Army Assistant Chief of Staff for
Intelligence, 1977-81, Deputy Director for Management and Operations, DIA,
1982-84.
'You can't be involved in this for any length of time and not
be convinced there's something here.' Norm J., former senior CIA
official who tasked remote viewers.

'There were times when they wanted to push buttons and
drop bombs on the basis of our information.'
Dr Hal Puthoff, a former manager of the remote-viewing program.
'She went into a trance. And while she was in the trance, she
gave us some latitude and longitude figures. We focused our
satellite cameras on that point, and the lost plane was there.'
Former President Jimmy Carter, recalling a 1978 remote-viewingoperation.
(Schnabel 1997).

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How to Have an Out-Of-Body Experience

Some metaphysical sources indicate that out-of-body experiences occur during the dream phase of sleep. If this is the case, you are having an out-of-body experience every night.

The following is a method used to consciously induce an out-of-body experience (OBE), short of actually having to fall asleep.

Robert Monroe's Method

In his book, Journeys out of the Body, Robert Monroe describes a complicated-sounding technique for inducing OBEs. In part, it is similar to other imagination methods, but it starts with induction of the "vibrational state". Many spontaneous OBEs start with a feeling of shaking or vibrating, and Monroe deliberately induces this state first. He suggests you do the following. First lie down in a darkened room in any comfortable position, but with your head pointing to magnetic north. Loosen clothing and remove any jewelry or metal objects, but be sure to stay warm. Ensure that you will not be disturbed and are not under any limitation of time. Begin by relaxing and then repeat to yourself five times, "I will consciously perceive and remember all that I encounter during this relaxation procedure. I will recall in detail when I am completely awake only those matters which will be beneficial to my physical and mental being." Then begin breathing through your half-open mouth.

The next step involves entering the state bordering sleep (the hypnagogic state). Monroe does not recommend any particular method of achieving this state. One method you might try is to hold your forearm up, while keeping your upper arm on the bed, or ground. As you start to fall asleep, your arm will fall, and you will awaken again. With practice you can learn to control the hypnagogic state without using your arm. Another method is to concentrate on an object. When other images start to enter your thoughts, you have entered the hypnagogic state. Passively watch these images. This will also help you maintain this state of near-sleep. Monroe calls this Condition A.

After first achieving this state, Monroe recommends to deepen it. Begin to clear your mind and observe your field of vision through your closed eyes. Do nothing more for a while. Simply look through your closed eyelids at the blackness in front of you. After a while, you may notice light patterns. These are simply neural discharges and they have no specific effect. Ignore them. When they cease, one has entered what Monroe calls Condition B. From here, one must enter an even deeper state of relaxation which Monroe calls Condition C -- a state of such relaxation that you lose all awareness of the body and sensory stimulation. You are almost in a void in which your only source of stimulation will be your own thoughts. The ideal state for leaving your body is Condition D. This is Condition C when it is voluntarily induced from a rested and refreshed condition and is not the effect of normal fatigue. To achieve Condition D, Monroe suggests that you practice entering it in the morning or after a short nap. With eyes closed, look into the blackness at a spot about a foot from your forehead, concentrating your consciousness on that point. Move it gradually to three feet away, then six, and then turn it 90 degrees upward, reaching above your head. Monroe orders you to reach for the vibrations at that spot and then mentally pull them into your head. He explains how to recognize them when they occur. "It is as if a surging, hissing, rhythmically pulsating wave of fiery sparks comes roaring into your head. From there it seems to sweep throughout your body, making it rigid and immobile." This method is easier than it sounds.

Once you have achieved the vibrational state, you have to learn to control it, to smooth out the vibrations by "pulsing" them. At this point, Monroe warns it is impossible to turn back. He suggests reaching out an arm to grasp some object which you know is out of normal reach. Feel the object and then let your hand pass through it, before bringing it back, stopping the vibrations and checking the details and location of the object. This exercise will prepare you for full separation.

To leave the body, Monroe advocates the "lift-out" method. To employ this method, think of getting lighter and of how nice it would be to float upwards. An alternative is the "rotation" technique in which you turn over in bed, twisting first the top of the body, head and shoulders until you turn right over and float upwards. Later you can explore further. With sufficient practice Monroe claims that a wide variety of experiences are yours for the taking.

"Only those who have dared to let go can dare to reenter." - Meister Eckhart

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The universe is destined to end. Before it does, could an advanced civilisation escape via a "wormhole" into a parallel universe? The idea seems like science fiction, but it is consistent with the laws of physics and biology. Here's how to do it

Michio Kaku

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The author is professor of theoretical physics at City University of New York. This article is adapted from his book "Parallel Worlds" (Allen Lane)

The universe is out of control, in a runaway acceleration. Eventually all intelligent life will face the final doom???the big freeze. An advanced civilisation must embark on the ultimate journey: fleeing to a parallel universe.

In Norse mythology, Ragnarok???the fate of the gods???begins when the earth is caught in the vice-like grip of a bone-chilling freeze. The heavens themselves freeze over, as the gods perish in great battles with evil serpents and murderous wolves. Eternal darkness settles over the bleak, frozen land as the sun and moon are both devoured. Odin, the father of all gods, finally falls to his death, and time itself comes to a halt.

Does this ancient tale foretell our future? Ever since the work of Edwin Hubble in the 1920s, scientists have known that the universe is expanding, but most have believed that the expansion was slowing as the universe aged. In 1998, astronomers at the Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory and the Australian National University calculated the expansion rate by studying dozens of powerful supernova explosions within distant galaxies, which can light up the entire universe. They could not believe their own data. Some unknown force was pushing the galaxies apart, causing the expansion of the universe to accelerate. Brian Schmidt, one of the group leaders, said, "I was still shaking my head, but we had checked everything??? I was very reluctant to tell people, because I truly thought that we were going to get massacred."

Physicists went scrambling back to their blackboards and realised that some "dark energy" of unknown origin, akin to Einstein's "cosmological constant," was acting as an anti-gravity force. Apparently, empty space itself contains enough repulsive dark energy to blow the universe apart. The more the universe expands, the more dark energy there is to make it expand even faster, leading to an exponential runaway mode.

In 2003, this astonishing result was confirmed by the WMAP (Wilkinson microwave anisotropy probe) satellite. Orbiting at a million miles from earth, this satellite contains two telescopes capable of detecting the faint microwave radiation which bathes the universe. It is so sensitive that it is able to photograph in exquisite detail the afterglow of the microwave radiation left over from the big bang, which is still circulating the universe. The WMAP satellite, in effect, gave us "baby pictures" of the universe when it was a mere 380,000 years old.

The WMAP satellite settled the long-standing question of the age of the universe: it is officially 13.7bn years old (to within 1 per cent accuracy). But more remarkably, the data showed that dark energy is not a fluke, but makes up 73 per cent of the matter and energy of the entire universe. To deepen the mystery, the data showed that 23 per cent of the universe consists of "dark matter," a bizarre form of matter which is invisible but still has weight. Hydrogen and helium make up 4 per cent, while the higher elements, you and I included, make up just 0.03 per cent. Dark energy and most of dark matter do not consist of atoms, which means that, contrary to what the ancient Greeks believed and what is taught in every chemistry course, most of the universe is not made of atoms at all.

As the universe expands, its energy content is diluted and temperatures eventually plunge to near absolute zero, where even atoms stop moving. One of the iron laws of physics is the second law of thermodynamics, which states that in the end everything runs down, that the total "entropy" (disorder or chaos) in the universe always increases. This means that iron rusts, our bodies age and crumble, empires fall, stars exhaust their nuclear fuel, and the universe itself will run down, as temperatures drop uniformly to near zero.

Charles Darwin was referring to this law when he wrote: "Believing as I do that man in the distant future will be a far more perfect creature than he now is, it is an intolerable thought that he and all other sentient beings are doomed to complete annihilation after such long-continued slow progress." And one of the most depressing passages in the English language was written by Bertrand Russell, who described the "unyielding despair" he felt when contemplating the distant future: "No fire, no heroism, no intensity of thought or feeling, can preserve a life beyond the grave??? all the labours of the ages, all the devotion, all the inspiration, all the noonday brightness of human genius, are destined to extinction in the vast death of the solar system; and the whole temple of man's achievement must inevitably be buried beneath the debris of a universe in ruins."

Russell wrote this passage in an era before space travel, so the death of the sun does not seem so catastrophic today???but the death of the entire universe seems inescapable. So on some day in the far future, the last star will cease to shine, and the universe will be littered with nuclear debris, dead neutron stars and black holes. Intelligent civilisations, like homeless people in rags huddled next to dying campfires, will gather around the last flickering embers of black holes emitting a faint Hawking radiation.

String theory to the rescue?
Although thermodynamics and cosmology point to the eventual death of all lifeforms in the universe, there is still one loophole. It is a law of evolution that, when the environment changes radically, life must adapt, flee or die. The first alternative seems impossible. The last is undesirable. This leaves us with one choice: leave the universe.

Although the concept of leaving our dying universe to enter another seems utterly mad, there is no law of physics forbidding entering a parallel universe. Einstein's general relativity theory allows for the existence of "wormholes" or gateways connecting parallel universes, sometimes called "Einstein-Rosen bridges." But it is still unknown whether quantum corrections make such a journey possible or not.

Although once considered a preposterous idea, the concept of the "multiverse"???that our universe coexists with an infinite number of parallel universes???has recently generated much interest among physicists from several directions. First, the leading theory consistent with the WMAP data is the "inflationary" theory, proposed by Alan Guth of MIT in 1979. It postulates a turbo-charged expansion of the universe at the beginning of time. The inflationary universe idea neatly explains several stubborn cosmological mysteries, including the flatness and uniformity of the universe.

But since physicists still do not know what drove this rapid inflationary process, there remains the chance that it could happen again, in an endless cycle. This is the chaotic inflationary idea of Andrei Linde of Stanford University, in which "parent universes" bud "baby universes" in a continuous, neverending cycle. Like soap bubbles which split into two smaller bubbles, universes can constantly sprout from other universes.

But what caused the big bang and drove this inflation? The question remains unanswered. Since the big bang was so intense, we have to abandon Einstein's theory of general relativity, which forms the underlying framework for all of cosmology. Einstein's theory of gravity breaks down at the instant of the big bang, and hence cannot answer the deep philosophical and theological questions raised by this event. At these incredible temperatures, we must incorporate quantum theory???the other great theory to emerge in the 20th century???which governs the physics of the atom.

Quantum theory and Einstein's relativity theory are opposites. The former governs the world of the very small, the peculiar subatomic realm of electrons and quarks. Relativity theory rules the world of the very large???of black holes and expanding universes. Relativity, therefore, is not suited to explaining the instant of the big bang, where the universe was smaller than a subatomic particle. At this moment we would expect radiation effects to dominate over gravity, and hence we need a quantum description of gravity. Indeed, one of the greatest challenges facing physics is to unify these theories into a single, coherent theory of all the forces in the universe.

Physicists today are groping for this "theory of everything." Many proposals have been made over the past half century, but all have been shown to be inconsistent or incomplete. So far, the leading???in fact, the only???candidate is string theory.

The latest incarnation of string theory, M-theory, may answer a question which has dogged advocates of higher dimensions for a century: where are they? Smoke can expand and fill up an entire room without vanishing into hyperspace, so higher dimensions, if they exist at all, must be smaller than an atom. If higher-dimensional space were larger than an atom, then we should see atoms mysteriously drifting and disappearing into a higher dimension, which we do not see in the laboratory.

In the older string picture, one had to "curl" or wrap up six of the ten original dimensions, leaving the four-dimensional universe of today. These unwanted dimensions were squeezed into a tiny ball (called a Calabi-Yau manifold) too small to be seen. But M-theory adds a new twist to this: some of these higher dimensions can be large, or even infinite, in size. Imagine two parallel sheets of paper. If an ant lived on each sheet, each would think that its sheet was the entire universe, unaware that there was another universe close by. In fact, the other universe would be invisible. Each ant would live out its life oblivious to the fact that another universe was only a few inches away. Similarly, our universe may be a membrane floating in 11-dimensional hyperspace, while we remain oblivious of the parallel universes hovering nearby.

One interesting version of M-theory cosmology is the "ekpyrotic" (from the Greek for "conflagration") universe, proposed by Paul Steinhardt, Burt Ovrut and Neil Turok. It assumes that our universe is a flat, infinite membrane floating in higher-dimensional space. But occasionally, gravity attracts a nearby membrane. These two parallel universes race towards each other until they collide, releasing a colossal amount of energy (the big splat). This explosion creates our known universe and sends the two parallel universes flying apart in hyperspace.

Searching for higher dimensions
The intense interest in higher dimensions generated by string theory has slowly spilled over into the world of experimental physics. Idle dinner-table chatter is being translated into multimillion-dollar physics experiments.

At the University of Colorado in Denver, the first experiment was conducted to search for the presence of a parallel universe, perhaps only a millimetre away. Physicists searched for tiny deviations from Newton's inverse square law for gravity. The light from a candle is diluted as it spreads out, decreasing at the inverse square of the distance of separation. Similarly, according to Newton's law, gravity also spreads out over space and decreases in the same way. But in a four-dimensional universe, there is more room for light or gravity to spread out, so they decrease at the inverse cube of the distance. Hence, by searching for tiny deviations from the inverse square law, one may pick up the presence of the fourth dimension.

Newton's inverse square law is so precise that it can guide our space probes throughout the solar system. But no one knows if it holds down to the millimetre level. At present, only null results have been found in these experiments. Other groups are searching for even smaller deviations. Physicists at Purdue University in Indiana are trying to test the law down to the atomic level, using nanotechnology.

Other avenues are also being explored. In 2007, the large hadron collider (LHC), capable of blasting subatomic particles with a colossal energy of 14 trillion electron volts (10 trillion times the energy found in a typical chemical reaction) will be turned on outside Geneva. The world's largest atom smasher, this huge machine, 27km in circumference, straddling the French-Swiss border, will probe into places 10,000 times smaller than a proton. Physicists expect to find an entire zoo of new subatomic particles not seen since the big bang.

Physicists predict that the LHC may create exotic particles like mini-black holes and supersymmetric particles, dubbed "sparticles," which would provide indirect evidence for string theory. In string theory, every particle has a super-partner. The partner of the electron is the "selectron," the partner of the quark is the "squark," and so on.

Furthermore, around 2012, the space-based gravity wave detector Lisa (laser interferometer space antenna) will be sent into orbit. Lisa will be able to detect the gravitational shockwaves emitted less than a trillionth of a second after the big bang. It will consist of three satellites circling the sun, connected by laser beams, making a huge triangle in space 5m km on each side. Any gravitational wave which strikes Lisa will disturb the lasers, and this tiny distortion will be picked up by instruments, signalling the collision of two black holes or the big bang aftershock itself. Lisa is so sensitive???it can measure distortions a tenth the diameter of an atom???that it may be able to test many of the scenarios being proposed for the pre-big bang universe, including string theory.

Steps to leave the universe
Unfortunately, the energy necessary to manipulate these higher dimensions, rather than just observe them, is far beyond anything available to us in the foreseeable future: 1019bn electron volts, or a quadrillion times the energy of the large hadron collider. To operate here one needs the technology of a super-advanced civilisation.

In order to organise a discussion of advanced extraterrestrial civilisations, astrophysicists often use the classification of Type I, II and III civilisations introduced by Russian astrophysicist Nikolai Kardashev in the 1960s, who ranked them by their energy consumption.

One might expect that a Type III civilisation, using the full power of its unimaginably vast galactic resources, would be able to evade the big freeze. The bodies of its citizens, for example, might be genetically altered and their organs replaced by computerised implants, representing a sophisticated merger of silicon and carbon technologies. But even these superhuman bodies would not survive the big freeze. This is because we define intelligence as the ability to process information. According to physics, all machines, whether they are computers, rockets, locomotives or steam engines, ultimately depend on extracting energy from temperature differences: steam engines, for example, work by extracting energy from boiling water. But information-processing, and hence intelligence, requires energy supplied by machines and motors, which will become impossible as temperature differences drop to zero. According to the laws of physics, in a uniformly cold universe where temperature differences do not exist, intelligence cannot survive.

But since the big freeze is probably billions to trillions of years away, there is time for a Type III civilisation to plot the only strategy consistent with the laws of physics: leaving this universe. To do this, an advanced civilisation will first have to discover the laws of quantum gravity, which may or may not turn out to be string theory. These laws will be crucial in calculating several unknown factors, such as the stability of wormholes connecting us to a parallel universe, and how we will know what these parallel worlds will look like. Before leaping into the unknown, we have to know what is on the other side. But how do we make the leap? Here are some of the ways.

Find a naturally occurring wormhole
An advanced civilisation which has colonised the galaxy may have stumbled during its past explorations upon exotic, primordial left-overs from the big bang. The original expansion was so rapid and explosive that even tiny wormholes might have been stretched and blown up into macroscopic size. Wormholes, cosmic strings, negative matter, negative energy, false vacua and other exotic creatures of physics may be relics left over from creation.

But if such naturally occurring gateways are not found, then the civilisation will have to take more complex and demanding steps.

Send a probe through a black hole
Black holes, we now realise, are plentiful; there is one lurking in the centre of our own milky way galaxy weighing about 3m solar masses. Probes sent through a black hole may settle some unsolved questions. In 1963, the mathematician Roy Kerr showed that a rapidly spinning black hole will not collapse into a dot, but rather into a rotating ring, which is kept from collapsing by centrifugal forces.

All black holes are surrounded by an event horizon, or point of no return: passing through the event horizon is a one-way trip. Conceivably, two such black holes would be needed for a return trip. But to an advanced civilisation fleeing the big freeze, a one-way trip may be all that is required.

What happens if one falls through the Kerr ring is a matter for debate. Some believe that the act of entering the wormhole will close it, making it unstable. And light falling into the black hole would be blue-shifted, giving rise to the possibility that one might be fried as one passed into a parallel universe. No one knows for sure, so experiments must be done. This controversy heated up last year when Stephen Hawking admitted that he had made a mistake 30 years ago in betting that black holes gobble up everything, including information. Perhaps the information is crushed forever by the black hole, or perhaps it passes into the parallel universe on the other side of the Kerr ring. Hawking's latest thinking is that information is not totally lost. But no one believes that the final word on this delicate question has been spoken.

To gain further data on space-times which are stretched to breaking point, an advanced civilisation might create a black hole in slow motion. In 1939, Einstein analysed a rotating mass of stellar debris which was slowly collapsing under its own gravity. Although Einstein showed that this rotating mass would not collapse into a black hole, an advanced civilisation may duplicate this experiment in slow motion by collecting a swirling mass of neutron stars weighing less than about 3 solar masses and then gradually injecting extra stellar material into the mass, forcing it to undergo gravitational collapse. Instead of collapsing into a dot, it will collapse into a ring, and hence allow scientists to witness the formation of a Kerr black hole in slow motion.

Create negative energy
If Kerr rings prove to be too unstable or lethal, one might also contemplate opening up wormholes via negative matter/energy. In 1988, Kip Thorne and his colleagues at the California Institute of Technology showed that if one had enough negative matter or negative energy, one could use it to create a transversable wormhole???one in which you could pass freely back and forth between your lab and a distant point in space (and even time). Negative matter/energy would be sufficient to keep the throat of the wormhole open for travel.

Unfortunately, no one has ever seen negative matter. In principle, it should weigh less than nothing and fall up, rather than down. If it existed when the earth was created, it would have been repelled by the earth's gravity and drifted off into space.

Negative energy, however, has been seen in the laboratory in the form of the Casimir effect. Normally, the force between two uncharged parallel plates should be zero. But if quantum fluctuations outside the plates are greater than the fluctuations between the plates, a net compression force will be created. The fluctuations pushing the plates from the outside are larger than the fluctuations pushing out from within the plates, so these uncharged plates are attracted to each other.

This was first predicted in 1948 and measured in 1958. However, the Casimir energy is tiny???proportional to the inverse fourth power of the separation of the plates. To make use of the Casimir effect would require advanced technology to squeeze these parallel plates to very small separations. If one were to reshape these parallel plates into a sphere with a double lining, and use vast amounts of energy to press these spherical plates together, enough negative energy might be generated for the interior of the sphere to separate from the rest of the universe.

Another source of negative energy is laser beams. Pulses of laser energy contain "squeezed states," which contain negative as well as positive energy. The problem is separating the negative from the positive energy within the beam. Although this is theoretically possible, it is exceedingly difficult. If a sophisticated civilisation could do this, then powerful laser beams might generate enough negative energy for the sphere to peel from our universe.

Even black holes have negative energy surrounding them, near their event horizons. In principle, this may yield vast quantities of negative energy. However, the technical problems of extracting negative energy so close to a black hole are extremely tricky.

Create a baby universe
According to inflation, just a few ounces of matter might suffice to create a baby universe. This is because the positive energy of matter cancels out the negative energy of gravity. If the universe is closed, then they cancel out exactly. In some sense, the universe may be a free lunch, as Guth has emphasised. Strange as it may seem, it requires no net energy to create an entire universe. Baby universes are in principle created naturally when a certain region of space-time becomes unstable and enters a state called the "false vacuum," which destabilises the fabric of space-time. An advanced civilisation might do this deliberately by concentrating energy in a single region. This would require either compressing matter to a density of 1080g/cm3, or heating it to 1029 degrees kelvin.

To create the fantastic conditions necessary to open up a wormhole with negative energy or to create a false vacuum with positive energy, one might need a "cosmic atom-smasher." Physicists are attempting to build "table-top" accelerators that can, in principle, attain billions of electron volts on a kitchen table. They have used powerful laser beams to attain an energy acceleration of 200bn electron volts per metre, a new record. Progress is rapid, with the energy growing by a factor of ten every five years. Although technical problems still prevent a true table-top accelerator, an advanced civilisation has billions of years to perfect these and other devices.

To reach the Planck energy (1028eV) with this laser technology would require an atom-smasher ten light years long, beyond the nearest star, which would be well within the technological capabilities of a Type III civilisation. Since the vacuum of empty space is better than any vacuum attainable on the earth, the beam of subatomic particles may not need light years of tubing to contain it; it could be fired in empty space. Power stations would have to be placed along the path in order to pump laser energy into the beam, and also to focus it.

Another possibility would be to bend the path into a circle so that it fits within the solar system. Gigantic magnets could be placed on asteroids to bend and focus the beam in a circular path around the sun. The magnetic field necessary to bend the beam would be so huge that the surge of power through the coils might melt them, meaning that they could only be used once. After the beam had passed, the melted coils would have to be discarded and replaced in time for the next pass.

Build a laser implosion machine
In principle, it might be possible to create laser beams of limitless power; the only constraints are the stability of the lasing material and the energy of the power source. In the lab, terawatt (trillion watt) lasers are now common, and petawatt (quadrillion watt) lasers are slowly becoming possible (in comparison, a commercial nuclear power plant generates only a billion watts of continuous power). One can even envisage an X-ray laser powered by the output of a hydrogen bomb, which would carry unimaginable power in its beam. At the Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory, a battery of lasers is fired radially on a small pellet of lithium deuteride, the active ingredient of a hydrogen bomb, in order to tame the power of thermonuclear fusion.

An advanced civilisation might create huge laser stations on the asteroids and then fire millions of laser beams on to a single point, creating vast temperatures and pressures unimaginable today.

Send a nanobot to recreate civilisation
If the wormholes created in the previous steps are too small, too unstable, or the radiation effects too intense, then perhaps we could send only atom-sized particles through a wormhole. In this case, this civilisation may embark upon the ultimate solution: passing an atomic-sized "seed" through the wormhole capable of regenerating the civilisation on the other side. This process is commonly found in nature. The seed of an oak tree, for example, is compact, rugged and designed to survive a long journey and live off the land. It also contains all the genetic information needed to regenerate the tree.

An advanced civilisation might want to send enough information through the wormhole to create a "nanobot," a self-replicating atomic-sized machine, built with nanotechnology. It would be able to travel at near the speed of light because it would be only the size of a molecule. It would land on a barren moon, and then use the raw materials to create a chemical factory which could create millions of copies of itself. A horde of these robots would then travel to other moons in other solar systems and create new chemical factories. This whole process would be repeated over and over again, making millions upon millions of copies of the original robot. Starting from a single robot, there will be a sphere of trillions of such robot probes expanding at near the speed of light, colonising the entire galaxy.

(This was the basis of the movie 2001, probably the most scientifically accurate fictional depiction of an encounter with an extraterrestrial lifeform. Instead of meeting aliens in a flying saucer or the USS Enterprise, the most realistic possibility is that we will make contact with a robot probe left on a moon from a passing Type III civilisation. This was outlined by scientists in the opening minutes of the film, but Stanley Kubrick cut the interviews from the final edit.)

Next, these robot probes would create huge biotechnology laboratories. The DNA sequences of the probes' creators would have been carefully recorded, and the robots would have been designed to inject this information into incubators, which would then clone the entire species. An advanced civilisation may also code the personalities and memories of its inhabitants and inject this into the clones, enabling the entire race to be reincarnated.

Although seemingly fantastic, this scenario is consistent with the known laws of physics and biology, and is within the capabilities of a Type III civilisation. There is nothing in the rules of science to prevent the regeneration of an advanced civilisation from the molecular level. For a dying civilisation trapped in a freezing universe, this may be the last hope.

As Pythagoras taught, Sacred Geometry is an ancient, universal language (land-guage). Geometric formations hold information and communicate ideas; not necessarily at a cognitive level, but often at a cellular level. They in-form us cellularly, just as our cells, the building blocks of our physiology, inform our bodies, providing a template for our development. Our cells are vehicles of involution; the movement from spirit to matter, as well as vehicles of evolution; movement from matter to spirit.

One such tool of Sacred Geometry is the Phi Ratio, the number 1.6180339... (1.618 is commonly used)

The progression or development of the whole of nature, from the subatomic to the supergalactic, follows this ratio. The twelfth century Italian mathematician, Leonardo P. Fibonacci, observed a predictable sequence of all natural development as shown by a progression of numbers:

1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 21, 34, 55, 89, 144, ad infinitum.

[1 + 0 = 1] [1 + 1 = 2] [2 + 1 = 3] [3 + 2 = 5] [5 + 3 = 8] [8 + 5 = 13] etc.

The Fibonacci Sequence demonstrates the idea that each stage of natural growth or development refers to its prior state in order to take its next evolutionary step. (This is not unlike Piaget's principle of rapprochement in child psychology.) It also follows the Phi Ratio, e.g. [5 X 1.618 = 8.09] or approximately 8.0, and over the course of the sequence, 1.618... is exact.

The spiral is a common element of Sacred Geometry as well as to all natural development. Spirals in nature tend to follow the Phi Ratio or Fibonacci Sequence in their rates of expansion.

It is only a relatively recent discovery in nature and mathematics that out of complete chaos you can find order. From the creation of a fractal we can understand ourselves and the world. A fractal is an aspect of the Whole that is also the Whole itself. Kind of like a drop of water from the sea, but not exactly. Fractals can be seen, for example, as a snowflake, a computer program, and even our very soul

The chaos of our human lives is re-iterated from the subatomic through the cosmic level. Chaos is the matrix of creation. It provides a bridge for unfolding "heaven on earth", a means of manifesting and grounding spiritual energy, that is not only creative but healing.
A state-of-the-art empirical foundation is essential for any well-grounded philosophy of life and a realistic self-concept. We create limited subjective fantasies about ourselves and the nature of the universe all the time. Usually we do not examine our a priori beliefs which condition those notions.
We grasp our beliefs as though they were the most precious of gemstones, rather than just models or constructs. The true nature of perception dictates that we experience only a simulation of ourselves and the world-at-large (Tart, 1992). From our worldview come symbols and images which a small part of our brain, and an even smaller part of our mind and consciousness clings to, attempting to structure reality out of chaos.
By clutching these beliefs, we then limit our experience of reality to that defined by them. For the most part, these underlying beliefs are rooted in notions about the nature of reality which are derived from 17th century physics and philosophy. The old mechanistic view asserts that mind and matter are separate.
Newton's discoveries bolstered the notion that reality is a universe consisting of separate objects interacting with one another according to fixed laws of cause and effect. The laws are learned through objective observation and measurement. Causal laws fit with our direct experience of the universe and are therefore supported as feeling "right" by intuition. Einstein said our language requires coordinates.
Since we live in a culture which is mostly based on this science and its technology, we generally accept these notions as a given, as axioms too basic to be questioned. We may know about the irrational, counter-intuitive concepts of quantum mechanics, yet it hardly seems to affect us.
Our beliefs are still largely rooted in cause-and-effect. From these axioms we also construct our ego and personality which is a collection of secondary beliefs about what we are and how we can relate to and control our surroundings.
It seems to work. Using this system of thought and belief, we are able to control much of the physical world around us. That is, until catastrophic chaos intervenes in our lives. It may come in the form of natural disaster, random victimization, the bifurcation of a love triangle [paramour as strange attractor], or a crisis in transition from one phase of life to another.

One man saw the Being of Light changing into various personalities such as Jesus, Buddha, Krishna, Mohammed, and then a mandala of human souls. Another saw the Being of Light as her Higher Self. The differences go on and on. However, despite these differences, all of these experiences are generally the same in that they contain many common aspects.

Because of the variations in human understanding, there is certain to be a lot of variations in human experiences. Beauty may not be the only reality existing in the eye of the beholder. Current quantum physics support the notion that ALL reality is in the eye of the beholder. The NDE is no exception in that people create their own reality.

In ordinary life, we create our own reality from the actions we take and the thoughts we think inwardly

Quantum Physics suggests one cannot truly define reality because when they do, they start setting up limitations to it ? limitations that can be broken. From this concept, one can conclude that beliefs limit an open mind. The physicist Fred Alan Wolfe has stated the laws of the universe may simply be the laws of our own minds. Perhaps when we try to define reality, we may not really be getting closer to its actual definition. Perhaps all we really define is our own perception of reality. Keeping an open mind about all things being possible might be as close as one can get to this concept without setting up limitations. Like the mysterious particle of light in quantum physics, when one tries to define it, one changes it. Maybe it is merely our perception of the light that is changing, rather than the light itself.

:)

Sophestry at its best.

What would exist? I think a larger question is why would it be any different if I would blind or sighted?

A blind person simple can "see" in a different way than sighted folks.

But by your premise, a blind person, because they cannot see, have no existance outside their own bodies...however this is untrue. The physical world has an effect on them.

Using your logic, if I don't beleive in gravity will I float away or will magical numbers like pi, phi, and e save me?

What do you mean "Are frequencies 'Absolute'?" The statement is a non-statement...it makes no sense and has no relavance to the discussion at hand.

You even state are they "absolute in ranges." WHAT DOES THAT MEAN!!??

Are you asking if a 1hz freq is always 1hz away from a freq at 2hz? Are you asking about guard bands? Perhaps some OFDM for a light lunch?

It all sounds a bit like "the force" in the Star Wars movies. No one ever saw it, they just "felt" it.

Well, it was a beaut piece of fiction for a great (science) fiction series of stories, but that was all it was -- fiction.

In exactly the same way is the Creator (God, Allah, etc.) a fiction. Nice, perhaps, but totally unnecessary.

Sounds like a good book, Absolutely. Any chance of some details, so that I can either pick it up at the Library, or more probably, just order it and buy it so I can read it any time.

I'm not sure if things like the exact value of the Hubble Constant will ever really be known. It changes with the changing equipment we have for measuring distances, etc., out there, as well as the rate at which all these things change.

We'd have to stop progressing entirely for the HC to gain an "exact" value, and, let's face it, that's not going to happen -- thank heavens!

I'll start with:
"Among paranormal phenomena which are now known, it has been found that signals can move much faster than light, and the human consciousness and even human influence, can move backward and forward in time."

*sigh* The whole faster than light thing is constantly taken out of context and always warped to the point of it being nonsense. My biggest issue with the whole mess is that the tachyons* get a bad name.

People also incorrectly use the Cherenkov Effect to explain FTL.

We have all seen the equation v = b/a = sqrt(c^2 + (w/a)^2). However, this is a derivation of wave basic wave equations using wave propogation. Every pseudo-scientist brings this up as PROOF of FTL or PROOF of tachyons/tachyon fields. So is this proof of FTL? No, this is the relativistic equation for a typical massive scalar particle.

How do we solve the paradox? We distinguish the velocity, known as the phase velocity (vph) from another velocity that is called the group velocity (vgr). So we setup our equation vgr = c / vph.

This also doesn't take into account attenuation. Or any of the phase shifting that may happen to the sin wave.

Also many forget that e=mc^2 is not the full story. We know now that the closer we get to the speed of light engery increases until it approaches infinity. How do we know this?
E = mc^2/sqrt(1 - v^2/c^2)

*Tachyons may or may not be real. There isn't enough evidence to prove they exist, but at the same time there are some problem in the way things work to say they don't exist. I personally have no problem with them other than they cannot have mass...theoretically that is possible, but it is a little sci-fi....

I'd like to see, but there is no linky

Love it! Only got the first three episodes on DVD, but it's screened here now every Saturday evening. Brings back all those childhood memories -- of my kids, I mean!

C'mon, Neil! It's good, bland (i.e. no sex) sci-fi stuff to sit down and watch on a cold wintry evening and take you out of yourself (make you forget the Mr Miamis of this world).

Love the bit from the paper! My son's "under 12" (he never has grown up) going on 31, and he had no difficulty getting the DVDs.

Watched 'em all!

I think he's a great Doctor but he's giving it up after one series! I think that they've got the mix about right for early evening with some comedy and good (slightly corny)) special effects. We get it Saturday at 7pm and it sets me up for an evening out.

Neil :D

Heavens Col, haven't they started the new Dr Who up north yet? You poor, depraved -- sorry, deprived -- basket!

We've had it for three weeks now down here and Mart's in his element(ary), of course.

Don't tell me you actually watch those daily soaps? I can't believe it! Haven't you got better things to do, like b**n a CD or two for your poor, benighted friends who can't even figure out where the serial numbers are??

Anyway, you'll get a real kick out of Dr Who. If nothing else, both he and his sidekick, Rose, are more or less 21st century, and both good-looking as well.

Outrageously nonsensical stuff, but wonderful for watching now winter's coming on. I'm looking forward to the Dalek that gets bashed, or clobbered or whatever. What a giggle!

Glad to hear it, Neil. For just a moment I thought you sounded anti-Dr Who, and I simply couldn't imagine why!

You're right. It is a good mix for early evening, and everyone I've spoken to about it really loves it. It's great stuff for kids of all ages, from "9 to 99", as they say.

I was sorry to hear that both Christopher Eccleston and Billie Piper were bowing out at the end of the season. Not sure where that leaves everything after such a build up to the beginning.

From hints dropped during episodes, most of the old Dr Who constants have gone -- his home, the other time lords, especially his adversaries, and, presumably, his "reincarnation" every so often.

The Tardis and the Daleks remain, of course, and since the companions always changed from time to time, nothing wrong with Rose leaving, but I really wonder how the next Doctor, assuming there is one, will change now from one to the other.

I can't remember, but I think the Doctor was supposed to have twelve lives in all, and while I'm not even sure which one we're up to now, there must be at least two, maybe three or more "lives" still left.

Unless the new writers want to change this (they may have a battle with fans about it though), I hope the new series continues until at least the twelfth Doctor if that's the correct number.

Whatever, I intend to enjoy it all while I can. Just love that Dalek!!

>>>

All this obfustifusion and governators and stuff is giving me another headache. I think I must have walked into the wrong thread after all. It sounds exactly like EL.

Like me!

Haven't been to the religious rights one yet or the world's fastest computers. The former sounds really over the top.

Frankly, I don't think it really matters what each one's into -- they're getting to be more like clones than pups, which is probably why my brain's slowly frying.

Talk about going round in ever diminishing circles until disappearing up his own fundamental orefice -- I mean Mr Miami, of course.

All I wish is that he'd stop shouting! Hurts my ears!

Thanks for the above info, Neil.

Oh, I know, Absolutely. I gave up a long time ago looking for intelligent exchange in any thread to which Mr Miami, or ProtiusX, or ippirate and any others of that ilk, put their names.

If I want intelligent exchange, I communicate privately via my email, not through a forum such as this anymore. (If you want to join in, I'll let you have my email).

Must admit, taunting the wackos, as you say, is a lot of fun, and it gives me a good giggle doing it.

On the other hand, trying to get across often very simple arguments to these guys/gals is just a pointless exercise, as soon as logic or reason rear their "ugly" heads.

And it doesn't seem to matter how often you do it, say it or whatever, they just don't, or won't, get it. It used to really get to me. Now I just have a jolly good giggle.

Episode III

"Only a Sith deals in Absolutes" :)

But so much of the original series seems to have died Galafrey has died or been destroyed. The Doctor appears to be the only Time Lord Left and the insides of the TARDIS look positively Old Hat.

The Doctor seems to have some unexplainable affinity for Earth as he has never gone anywhere else so far anyway, maybe it's just to get new viewers interested but to me the old Doctor Who seemed so much more believable and the insides of the current TARDIS look like something out of a steam powered Train rather than a high tech unit with almost unlimited power available to it.

Hopefully it will get better but knowing that the person who plays the current Doctor quit after the first season doesn't bode well for the latest series which just happens to be the longest running TV series in history.

Col ]:)

not to mention their mythologies.

We now know the former to be false, and the latter to be wholly unsubstantiated.

And, there's nothing mystical about the "Golden Ratio" ( not the "sacred Ratio"). It is the solution to a trivial quadratic equation, and is, in fact, an irrational number, the very kind whose existence was denied by the Pythagorians!

You're missing the point that mathematics is an artifact; it is a human construct borne of a desire to [i]find[/i] an orderly way to describe natural phenomena.

Merely saying that you believe such does not make it so.

Any [i]appearance[/i] of order amidst chaos is a natural result of random clustering.

While you think it is cruel to say speculation, the theories behind how quantum mechanics work are verifiable in a lab (at least to some extent)...

I did [b]not[/b] ask for a definition of matter.

Please re-address the questions as asked.

It's your conjecture.

And I cannot take any more of this thread. I'll see you back at the White Mice's lair, OK?

Makes more sense.

Hidden matter? Hot matter? Cold matter? How can ANY matter be "non"? Doesn't make sense.

What happened at the stock exchange when Darth Vader chucked Emperor Palpatine down the shaft?

Sith shares just plummeted.

The "quanta" of all electro-magnetic radiation, which includes visible light, is the photon.

See
[v]http://www.biologydaily.com/biology/Photoelectric_effect[/v]

...

Only you can prove it!

Now, I wonder how many know what you mean.

[v]https://www.techrepublic.com.com/5247-6257-0.html?id=363666[/v]

Actually, the equations cited allow for 2 possiblilites:

1) A real mass travelling backward in time; or,
2) An imaginary mass travelling forward in time.

In either case, the [i]minimum[/i] observable speed of such would be C.

The former would exist in our frame of reference for but a single quanta of time, if in fact time is quantitized (is that the right word?); the latter, only if both the observer & the tachyon where both travelling at precisely C.

Not have "mass" and not take up "space".

And, he persisted in failing to address the fundamental flaw in ID.

It is possible that he fled the field so as to avoid defeat.

If you wish, feel free to answer in his stead.

As will any other pose that strikes your fancy.

When you look at the 'subject' we are getting OFF Track now and again ( but I do believe most posts on this site seem to do that! )

Maybe this site is not the best place to discuss issues like this - although I do appreciate the "Absolute" ( for want of a better word ) points of view I receive.

Just to get a response means something as I would imagine that no response at all would mean absolutely no interest or it's not worthy of a reply!

Contrary to what you or others may think this is my way of exploring both sides of the argument.

Let me know if I am wasting your and my time and I will be happy to stop posting!

and many thanks for the replies! :)

Spooky, but true.

I've no explanation for it, but given that I & the subject were the only persons present, with no means of communications with those at a distance, I cannot dismiss it as anecdotal.

Furthermore, after I left the room, with the subject still inside, to communicate with those who did know what happened elsewhere, and then re-entered, the subject refused to answer any more questions on that particular matter, on the grounds that I already knew the answers!

I was hoping for rational discourse, but now find you engaging in mere sophistry.

After all, they have a zero mass.

And, left unanswered is the reference to "non-bounded."

the concepts of parallel universes, multiple non-parallel universes, etc. are neither new nor proscribed by any known laws of nature. In fact the concept of multiverses has captured the minds of many, both those doing serious research as well as the community of (hard) science fiction writers.

And, wondering if the post was intended to have particular relevance to this thread.

First I need to know:-

Do Photon's take up space??

The elementary particles that we usually encounter (protons and neutrons) do "take up space" in the sense that we can measure how close to the center of these particles collision interactions occur.

We all *encounter* far more photons than any other form of mass/energy.

"The elementary particles that we usually encounter (protons and neutrons)."

1. Crawl

2. Walk

3. Run

Analogy explained: learn the rules of physics before postulating alternative interpretations.

I am on a different "tangent" to what the original discussion MR Miami posted is about.

My primary purpose in joining this discussion was to discuss Mr Miami's thoughts on other "dimensions" other than the "physical world" we know and live in.

Not to be seen to be "defeated" or "shot down in flames" due to missing an intricate point in Physics.

I like you "live" in the Physical world and are currently "exploring" the "existence" of other "dimensions" and "realms", "NDE experiences" ( most likely in Scientific and Physics as we know it at the moment "unproven" ) not to say it will not be proven ( using the methods we know as proof at the moment ).

I used to be (a everything is either "black" or "white" ) believer but I have know began a journey ( after the recent death of my father and sister in law ) with an open mind to explore other realms as I truly believe there is more to this world than "black" or "white".

If I can't see, touch, physically feel, hear something ( does it mean it does not exist? )

What about your sense of "inner feeling" or events that have taken place in your life that somehow seemed to be more than sheer "circumstance"?

( I would have liked to share some personal experiences of mine with you but I feel that you woundn't have appreciated what I had to say )

I regard Skeptism as highly as I regard the current researchers of the "spiritual" universe or realms, and I value your's and other inputs.

I am happy to keep posting but I cannot fill in for Mr Miami ( only myself ).

Because I am not a "Physicist" or "Mathematician" or "Scientist" and don't pretend to be I will make "unusual" assumptions as part to the exploration I am conducting.

I do believe that without "valued" input from people with "Mathematics" and "Scientific" backgrounds such as I have found on this site that my quest would be all the harder, although I don't understand what safisfaction and enjoyment some posters get by being obnoxious ,rude and belittle people.

But I would prefer to try somewhere else if it's going to be wasting both our times.

As to the answer does a photon take up space if you could give me a 'difinitive' answer and reference that would be appreciated.

I did some research myself ( if you look in my posting you would have seen that i provided an answer ) but thought I would clarify the point.

I do at least have the decency to try and provide an answer as you ask ( whether fact or fictional )
without putting you down.

It seems you and Absolutely and some others have an "obvious" advantage over me with your knowledge of Physics and Mathematics and if possible I would like to ask you a "favour" if you have the time and inclination to look at the following link ( which is "The Skeptics Corner" and the second link "Scientific Evidence" on NDE's and provide some feedback in due course.

http://www.near-death.com/skeptic.html

http://www.near-death.com/evidence.html

http://www.near-death.com/experiences/research08.html

A new theory of the relationship of mind and matter
DAVID BOHM

Department of Theoretical Physics, Birkbeck College, University of London, Malet St, London WC1E 7HX, United Kingdom

http://members.aol.com/Mszlazak/BOHM.html

Do we create our own Reality? - Quantum Physicist -answers Fred Alan Wolf, Ph.D. is a consulting physicist, writer, and lecturer

http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind9808&L=quantum-mind&P=R9474&I=-3

I would strongly urge that, before seeking explanations for phenomena perceived as being beyond the realm of science, a certain level of knowledge & understanding of the pertinent science, in this case physics, mathematics & astronomy, would be in order.

Also, a firm grasp of logic & the resultant rules of rational discourse, are mandatory for logical discourse.

Finally, it must be recognized that, by definition, the meta-physical can be speculated about but never proven. That which is amenable to proof is, by definition, physical.

I respect your reply. :)

It seems you and Absolutely and some others have an "obvious" advantage over me with your current knowledge of Physics and Mathematics.

As to your question is a Photon non - matter etc and I asked you Does it take up space - that was after I did some research and had already posted my answer ( in my question ).

The reason I asked your opinion was that depending on where I read there was some debate in the matter.

... and as you have obviously more knowledge in Physics than I .....if possible I would like to ask you and others ie Absolutely / Neil etc a "favour" if you have the time and/or inclination to look at the following link ( which is "The Skeptics Corner" and the second link "Scientific Evidence" on NDE's and provide some feedback in due course.

**I trust and hope the time spent would be a more interesting and rewarding time compared to posting "Assumes Facts not in evidence" in the M$ Black Box discussion**

http://www.near-death.com/skeptic.html

http://www.near-death.com/evidence.html

http://www.near-death.com/experiences/research08.html ( one of the links on the Scientific Evidence Page

also

http://members.aol.com/Mszlazak/BOHM.html

If you have time and or are still willing to keep a discussion going let me know ( or maybe we can start another thread ) - otherwise thank-you for your time and effort.

Was based on some interest in Holographic projection the appearance of 3 dimensional images that can appear to be interactive within a confined space.

Now if that was correct there would be a massive amount of Data required for each individual area in the projection and it was from this basis that I was seeing a extrapolation to ID that's "Interior Decoration and not Intelligent Design" as being the purpose of this entire thread.

Now I may be quite wrong on this assumption but it was what I thought the whole thing was about and since a massive amount of number crunching would be involved to produce a holographic projection and a lot of design would be involved I was seeing the same applied to the production of the Universe as we know it.

But the way that this has been progressing seems to have taken that premises away into different areas that I'm not even thinking about let alone feel qualified to comment on. There has been such a shift to the "Spiritual" that it leaves from my perspective a lot to be desired so all I have to say now is:_

I'M LEAVING TR AND IT'S ALL OZ'S FAULT! :D

Col ]:)

I am on a different "tangent" to what the original discussion MR Miami posted is about.

My primary purpose in joining this discussion was to discuss Mr Miami's thoughts on other "dimensions" other than the "physical world" we know and live in.

Not to be seen to be "defeated" or "shot down in flames" due to missing an intricate point in Physics.

I like you "live" in the Physical world and are currently "exploring" the "existence" of other "dimensions" and "realms", "NDE experiences" ( most likely in Scientific and Physics as we know it at the moment "unproven" ) not to say it will not be proven ( using the methods we know as proof at the moment ).

I used to be ( everthhing is either "black" or "white" ) believer but I have know began a journey ( after the recent death of my father ) with an open mind to explore as I truly believe there is more to this world than "black" or "white".

If I can't see, touch, physically feel, hear something ( does it mean it does not exist? )

What about your sense of "inner feeling" or events that have taken place in your life that somehow seemed to be more than sheer "circumstance"?

I regard Skeptism as highly as I regard the current researchers of the "spiritual" universe or realms, and I value your's and other inputs.

I am happy to keep posting but I cannot fill in for Mr Miami ( only myself ).

Because I am not a "Physicist" or "Mathematician" or "Scientist" and don't pretend to be I will make "unusual" assumptions as part to the exploration I am conducting.

I do believe that without "valued" input from people with "Mathematics" and "Scientific" backgrounds such as I have found on this site that my quest would be all the harder, although I don't understand what safisfaction and enjoyment some posters get by being obnoxious ,rude and belittle people.

But I would prefer to try somewhere else if it's going to be wasting both our times.

As to the answer does a photon take up space if you could give me a 'difinitive' answer and reference that would be appreciated.

I do at least have the decency to try and provide an answer as you ask ( whether fact or fictional )
without putting you down.

It seems you and Absolutely and some others have an "obvious" advantage over me with your knowledge of Physics and Mathematics and if possible I would like to ask you a "favour" if you have the time and inclination to look at the following link ( which is "The Skeptics Corner" and the second link "Scientific Evidence" on NDE's and provide some feedback in due course.

http://www.near-death.com/skeptic.html

http://www.near-death.com/evidence.html

http://www.near-death.com/experiences/research08.html

A new theory of the relationship of mind and matter
DAVID BOHM

Department of Theoretical Physics, Birkbeck College, University of London, Malet St, London WC1E 7HX, United Kingdom

http://members.aol.com/Mszlazak/BOHM.html

Do we create our own Reality? - Quantum Physicist -answers Fred Alan Wolf, Ph.D. is a consulting physicist, writer, and lecturer

http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind9808&L=quantum-mind&P=R9474&I=-3

:)

Cannot change the meaning as much as:

Beam us up, Mr. Scott to
Beam us up Mr. Scott

:D

I've turned them into a musical instrument, the Mouse Piano.

Contrary to the appearance first given, Black Pirate is [b]not[/b] seeking to support the position of MrMiami & his ilk.

Rather, he has recently, following the death of his father, begun his own quest to know & understand the unknowable.

Unfortunately, his lack of knowledge of that which is already known by science has resulted in his inability to ask the right questions, and created the appearance that he was seeking to advance his own beliefs.

It is unfortunate that your entry into this thread mistakenly conveyed the appearance of one who was seeking to advance a particular belief system, thus drawing the ire of those who had been long trying in vain to get ippirate and MrMiami to engage in logical discourse.

Your post re. the death of your father, for which I extend my condolences, having experienced such myself quite unexpectedly 26 years ago, now casts yout posts in an entirely different light.

You are a pilgrim on a quixotic quest for the unattainable.

Before one can address the unknowable, one must first know & understand that which is already known to & understood by others.

And, one must put aside any & all beliefs; beliefs serve only to filter out information that is inconsistent with such beliefs. One must allow oneself to see all available data, eliminating only that which has no basis in fact, uncolored by the irrational.

That is, one must remain agnostic in all things regarding that which is & is not, or does & does not exist. Absence of proof does not constitute proof of absence.

It is essential that you study the physical sciences; only by so doing will you be able to know what remains unknown. While I do not have a readily available good reading list for such, I might suggest that you begin with [i]The Elegant Universe[/i]. And, I suggest that you ask some of the others here for suggested reading materials.

The American Indians have an ancient adage re. the quest for knowledge, one that I find particulary apt here.

[i]"As grows the circle of Light, so grows the circe of Darkness."[/i]

The more one comes to know & understand, the more he becomes aware of his ignorance.

May the future be kind.

The site at the below link provides for viewing the entire 3 hour TV series, along with a plethora of related information.

[v]http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/elegant/[/v]

A meta-search of the web for the string "the elegant universe" will provide links to a large number of related & useful sites.

Another good source of info. re. the physical sciences is the one that I realier referred you to re. Einstein's treatise on the photo-electric effect. Despite its main topic being biology, it contains a wealth of info. re. the physical sciences, outside biology proper, that form the basis for the mechanisms underlying biological processes.

[v]http://www.biologydaily.com/[/v].

Somewhere I've a link to a truly wonderful site with a wealth of info. of the sort that would be most helpful to you. However, at the moment I can't seem to find it; it may be on my machine at the office. If and when I find it, I'll get it to you.

:)

Everthing is not what is seems! :)

Lets hope I can ask the right question!

What have Newton's Laws to do with your outrageous claims? I'm waiting...

And found it absolutely rivetting stuff. I'm now hanging out to get a copy of it on DVD as soon as it arrives in the shops, which shouldn't be long now.

The thing is, when we start dipping deeply into this kind of thing, I find that, while math can still probably explain it all quite adequately -- or will in the not too distant future when we arrive at an "equation of everything", a TOE -- it will never be more than a mathematical construct.

How can we, three-dimensional critters that we are, ever go beyond the confines of our third dimensional prison and survive? We're not made for that.

It all reminds me so vividly of Abbott's "Flatland" (first publ. in the late 19th century, I believe), where "three-dimensional" reason and logic appear to fly out the window once we start tampering with that extra-dimensional stuff.

Are we indeed catapulting towards a time (of understanding, I hope!) when math and philosophy really begin to merge, because that's what it appears to me to be doing.

I'm still pretty skeptical, I might add, because I had a very funny experience when my father died back in '76. I couldn't explain it then; I can't explain it now, and I've absolutely no solid evidence to ever prove that anything really happened . . .

The world of quantum has the ability to screw our minds, so how are we going to distinguish between what's "real" and what's unreal once we enter this weird world in the (hopefully near) future?

..?

:)

I have too had such experiences ( more than one ) and would love to share them ( although not at the mercy of being ridiculed publicy by non-believers ) :)

**How can anyone ever dis-prove anothers experience??**

I'll keep researching what you give me... but so far the deeper I delve...on all the "theories" ie the "string", the "soup" etc etc the more I also am unconvinced I am about an Absolute Scientific Origin of the Universe and Humans

...although the Big Bang makes sense according to Science and also the NDE experiences... the expanding universe makes sense according to both... but what does not make sense in Science is what created the Big Bang in the first place.."out of nothing" (ID??)..maybe I'll find more by researching more on the "String Theory" the 10 dimensions ?? ..........

From the Elegant Universe..

**Not unless some four-dimensional life-form pulls us from our three-dimensional Spaceland and gives us a view of the world from its perspective. ***

As far as extra dimensions are concerned, very tiny extra dimensions wouldn't be perceived in everyday life, just as atoms aren't: we see many atoms together but we don't see atoms individually. In a somewhat similar fashion, our experiences and our observations would average over the extra dimensions if those were small enough.

You have to be open-minded because ideas come from different places. You can think about something in one way for a long time and it seems like the only way to think about it, but it really isn't. Somebody could make a suggestion that really sounds na?ve. It might even be na?ve, but it could have an important element of the truth in it.****

ID is "untestable" by Science...

Finally, the question of whether there is an intelligent designer is "untestable" using the methods of science, and therefore is not a scientific claim. ****

^^So...If Science could prove it - then couldn't they create it?? ie Create Origin itself?^^

then follows...If ID can't ever be proved by Science..then how can it be "dismissed" by Science...it exists therefore??

**Science therefore cannot prove our existance is "purely" Physical!***

The Alternative to a "steadfast" I'll wait for Science...is to explore the Spiritual or other Dimensions ( either yourself ) as explained... or through others ( many hundreds of thousands....)

**Sorry I was in a dream..Mr Miami and I conversing whilst others from the gallery were throwing banana's** :)

... by Transcendental Meditation... a Multi-Dimensional Transformic Process :)

Self Easy Scientfic Experiment

Have you tried "Dowsing" ( speak to your subconscious ) - I would be interested on your thoughts - it's easy to do

If you have a wedding ring take it off and tie a piece of string to it so that it is the length from your stomach to your chin.

Hold the string near you chin and with the other hand steady the ring near your stomach until it stops.

Let go of the ring and ask the pendulum which is your YES - it should after a short while start to rotate or move in a certain direction. Then stopped it and ask it your NO.

more here

http://www.geomancy.org/dowsing/dowsing-3.html

Are you willing to comment on the NDE links I sent you or am I wasting my time.....

I would imagine that subjects like this have been exhausted many times... on threads that are too large for me to get into.....

Deepsand -- many thanks for your understanding! :)

Thanks for the site....:)

1) What are we going to do about that 6 mile radius asteroid when it comes close to smashing into our planet at 92,000 mph.

2) When are we gonna make contact with some alien life for and make buds with them so we can share technology.

and a third point....

I just saved a ton of money on car insurance from Geico! :)

(j/k -- Allstate rocks!)

Well, blow me down, if I didn't walk straight into the bookshop today and find the DVD of the "Elegant Universe" -- at last!

Black Panther, of all the recent docos on quantum science, cosmology, the universe, etc., this is definitely one of the best.

It's also easy to understand (in laymen's terms; forget the math for the moment) as it was made with simplicity in mind. Get yourself a copy, as I think deepsand already suggested.

There are three episodes, but particularly concentrate on the final one "Welcome to the 11th dimension".

Your post again put me strongly in mind of Abbott's little 19th century classic "Flatland", which describes the same situation we now face with quantum science and TOEs, except back then it was between two-dimensional and three-
dimensional worlds.

Email me privately if you want to talk more about the philosophical side of quantum. I'm on the other end of levannah44@smartchat.net.au.

Gret, aka Levannah

PS: The doco even states that only a few years ago, people who thought these ideas were considered crackpots and weirdos.

Now some of the best physicists in the world are hauling us holus bolus towards a theory of quantum gravity and that final, wonderful TOE whether we're ready for the weirdness or not. Long live quantum!

Stop. Think. Remove the blinkers, please, or you'll have me thinking you're all turning into Mr Miamis! Heaven forbid.

In particular, deepsand, you who have read and/or seen "The Elegant Universe" of Brian Greene, for instance, should be able to penetrate under what Black Panther is trying to express.

OK, I'm the first to say that metaphysical stuff and some kinds of philosophy leave my brain in severe meltdown, because in general, I'm a skeptic and lean very heavily away from anything that can't be explained or can't be put under the scientific microscope.

Then we come to quantum science. We all believe quantum, but we can't fully explain it all yet. Many areas of quantum certainly can't be tested by normal scientific methods.

The more we delve into it, the more we move perilously close to philosophy and yes, even metaphysics. I go cold just thinking about it.

But the trouble is, we have to think about. It's weird. It's brain-bending and it gives me a headache. But quantum science in all its forms is the next step and we have no choice but to follow it.

A few years ago, people who thought some of the things Black Panther is endeavouring to explain here were labelled crackpots and weirdos.

I'm not talking about the pseudo-science of the Mr Miamis of this world; I'm talking about the world of quantum science, the weirdest thing I've ever studied.

Suddenly, many of these originally "crackpot" ideas are being studied by serious physicists because that's what quantum science is -- ideas that can be mathematically harnessed (at least on paper!), even if that's as far as we'll ever be able to take them.

We are so close to that "mystical" TOE now that "crackpots" and "weirdos" are no longer laughed at. If anything, they are even the very physicists now working in this area, accepted and often regarded with awe by the rest of the scientific world.

I have no idea if what Black Panther is saying has any validity or not in a purely scientific framework. But I'm prepared to at least back him until otherwise proved wrong, because how do we know that any, or even all of this isn't some tiny part of quantum gravity we just haven't come across yet in the normal way of things?

You can all correct me if I'm wrong here, but I think it was Voltaire who once said that he may not agree with what (his opponent) was saying, but he would defend to his dying day his right to say it.

This in no way means I agree with what Mr Miami's saying, believe me! I don't. But to be fair, I guess he has a right to say what he does, just like the rest of us.

No, this post is, in particular, more in support of what BP has to say. I don't really understand what Mr Miami's saying anyway; it's all gobble-de-gook, but with what BP is saying, I can see a modicum of light, if I look at it through quantum eyes. (Boy, I must look strange then!)

OK, now you can all shoot me down in flames. I'm ready!

During the "Summer of Love," a visual arts theatre I then frequented ran the movie presentation of "Flatland." It was very well done, and quite thought provoking, much like "The Elegant Universe."

During that same period, several friends & I did some rather carefully controlled experiments re. ESP, using subjects under hypnosis. While most were inconclusive, we did find definite evidence of real time knowledge of events at a distance.

Can't explain it, but neither can I dismis the evidence.

Thanks for jumping in here to help Black Panther.

I was about to seek you out for such, but you picked up on his plight before I got around to posting to you.

I'm glad that your true purpose here has become clear, so that we can respond appropriately.