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by ontheropes

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?I sincerely believe the banking institutions having the issuing power of money are more dangerous to liberty than standing armies? - Thomas Jefferson

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zsZO6G7dfpI
or
http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=america+freedom+to+fascism

I'd like to see your comments regarding the video.

Is there a law requiring American workers to pay taxes? If so, can you produce it in writing?

Thank you

379 replies

by ontheropes

Bush To Be Dictator In A Catastrophic Emergency

http://www.roguegovernment.com/news.php?id=2169

by inkling

to get a conversation about the martial law thing going back in March: https://www.techrepublic.com.com/5208-6230-0.html?forumID=102&threadID=213913&messageID=2188376

It got a grand total of six replies (not counting my own of course). =(

I'm with you though, I won't give up. Someday, people will look beyond American Idol and take an interest in the important things.

by tryten

This bill was supposedly accepted and signed in last night. But, in order for this to become effective the US has to be in a situation,
A. During wartime the War Powers Act is deemed ineffective. This would entail massive infrastructure damage to the US government. Basically, parts of the government have become destroyed or are no longer able to operate. Such as the entire Congressional committee has been wiped out due to an "unfortunate" event like a terrorist explosion. Really though, how unfortunate could that actually be.

B. A Catastrophic Emergency such as a natural disaster would be handled in this manner only after means, such as martial law, can no longer provide sufficient aid to the citizens or its government. The step would be FEMA/Red Cross goes in first, then the national guard (we all know how helpful that was). Followed by Martial Law. In the event that Martial Law fails all decisions that need to be made to end the crisis shall be designated solely by the President or acting President of the US. Its not really a bad deal. Instead of everyone pointing fingers at who's to blame and getting nothing done everything shall be handled by one individual who has been deemed by the majority of the citizens the most fit to handle the situations, good or bad, of the country.

Honestly, the US needs a dictator. The representatives and congressmen have gotten so corrupt and greedy that the US needs to get rid of em. Democracy based governments have never lasted and what we see in the US today is why they don't last. Something needs to be done. Even if Bush becomes a dictator, how long do you think he well be in power given his popularity? Don't think anyone has anything to worry about there.

by ontheropes

And I also expect this discussion to go to at least 5 replies...

Maybe not. :(

Edited: Sue me

by absolutely

...until Monday afternoon! If there are not 10 replies by eob Monday, [b]then[/b] call this topic a dud. But wait until then.

by w2ktechman

ut after viewing something like this I often check on some facts before voicing an opinion either way. Usually this takes a bit of time.

There was a lot in that video to think about as well. From income taxes not being legal to GWB creating powers for himself to the Federal Reserve things to world govt....... And in between there were many lesser items as well.

When I see something like this I usually try to determine which parts are false or partially false, which are prove-able, and afterwards determine if I think that I should share it with others.
After seeing it, I do think that everyone should watch it, and judge for themselves. But before picking it apart and reviewing it, the movie just pisses me off. Not for the knowledge that it passes on, but if the content is correct (mostly).

by ontheropes

It just disturbs me a ?little bit?.

I wonder how many people will even take less than 3 hours time to watch the videos I've posted here. I've spent YEARS trying to figure out the big picture. Maybe NOW I finally understand why things never looked right to me.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6708190071483512003

Edit: I'm puzzled as to why my broadband connection was suddenly throttled back. I'm sure it's just a coincidence. I'm sure it's just a coincidence. I'm sure...

"Keep stepping forward. Share your discoveries. You will make new friends. You are not a conspiracy theorist, but part of a whole."

We are all in this together.

by tig2

I have some setting somewhere hosed and can't view them. I need to just bite the bullet and reload this darned thing.

No, there isn't a law. There never has been. There have been many groups in the past who have successfully protested paying taxes on the basis of the lack of law and failure on the part of government to prove the constitutionality of income tax.

Government is WAY too big for the britches we give it. Real ID, micro-chipping people, the ever increasingly large hand in pocket, even to the point where a former president is not allowed to give his opinion when asked. To me, all evidence that this administration will not gracefully exit the White House. And that government has run amok.

And what will we replace these current idiots with? More idiots, unfortunately. "Sheeple" have never been more prevalent than they are today. They mistakenly believe that we need MORE government, not less. They honestly believe that legitimising criminals is a good plan. They think that micro chipping people is a good thing.

I believe that we can choose the world we want to live in by making better choices. We may not achieve that world but at least we would be doing SOMETHING instead of decrying the fact that we are accomplishing NOTHING. But even there, I am apparently wrong. Silly me, at least I was willing to TRY. AM willing, even though I may be wrong for doing so.

You point out the apathy that seems to have infected a great nation. I don't get it either. We seem to be willing to give up our individual rights, believing (however wrongly) that to do so will somehow make us safer.

I don't get it, I am not destined to.

When I see biblical prophesy coming true before my eyes, I begin to think that going somewhere- anywhere- else is a good thing and possibly the only thing that can save my a$$. Quite sad, really.

by dadspad

I always have a problem with this kind of documentary, most are using a fear factor. The facts that were presented I have seen most of them before. I did think they did an interesting job of presenting them all together.

What really needs to be answered is if we do not use income tax to pay for services, then how do we pay for them? I am not saying the way we have is the only one, but we do need them. No one should argue with the need for a strong military or disaster funds. But there are thousands of other services that are needed, especially for the ones that cannot afford these on there on. From due process of law to deadbeat dads.

I am only saying, while I am in favor of bringing all injustises to the forefront, but bring alternate ways to pay for them. We may not have been given a choice in how we pay for them now, but what way would we be willing to pay for them. (Which service we are willing to pay for is a whole other topic.) :)

Dad

edited to be able to get off soapbox.

by ontheropes

Since you're talking to someone who has previously filed personal bankruptcy any answer I provide, (including my intelligence, character, integrity and even the contents of my refrigerator), should be suspect.

I've been told by people (?) here at TR that I need to take Economy 101 classes too, so I'll decline even trying to supply a solution.

I would like to ask a couple of simple questions though:

How exactly do we pay for services now?

What's the likely end result?

I just can't figure out the answers for those questions and I'm unable to provide links.

Isn't it always nice when our elected officials go on TV to supply the drama and heroism we all crave by signing a piece of paper producing a Billion dollars for any given cause. It's even nicer when a Billion dollars was proposed but they make it two Billion dollars because they're really nice people and it's a really good cause.

The thinking seems to be that having the money to pay for whatever the ?desire/need of the day? is the sum-total solution for any problem. It isn't.

To illustrate the point that my providing a solution that everyone (anyone?) would believe was going to work and be fair I'll recall a scene in the first movie that I thought was chilling. I'm positive that a lot of other people wouldn't view it the same way I do. Maybe you'll remember it.
Our beloved President was admiring the fact that one woman works three different jobs to make ends meet. I think his quote was, ?It's the American way idint it?.

Certainly she's to be admired for her efforts but the chilling aspect to me, was that our beloved President wasn't horrified that the woman works three different jobs to make ends meet. If that's ?the American way? we should all become debt slaves.

Hmmm...

I'll get back to you on our need for a massive military industrial complex and see if I can find my link to how disaster funds are spent.

Edited by me to remove images.

Link to images provided below:
http://www.sasi.group.shef.ac.uk/worldmapper/display.php?selected=279

http://www.sasi.group.shef.ac.uk/worldmapper/display.php?selected=288

by ontheropes

Just 1 of 69,400 Google hits for search terms "Katrina fund misused".

http://xymphora.blogspot.com/2005/09/disaster-capitalism-in-new-orleans.html

If that article doesn't make you want to learn more on your own...

by absolutely

[i]I am only saying, while I am in favor of bringing all injustises to the forefront, but bring alternate ways to pay for them. We may not have been given a choice in how we pay for them now, but what way would we be willing to pay for them. (Which service we are willing to pay for is a whole other topic.)[/i]

Which services are Absolutely Necessary? How much do those cost? There, the tax question is settled, now back to work everybody!!

:^0

by absolutely

Say, around Labor Day. Then, those who will receive refunds have them in time for their winter holiday spending sprees, and we also have the memory of the magnitude of what has been calculated as the "Tax Paid" fresh in our minds when we go to vote. Good idea, Tony, but I saw another bird. I hope you don't mind that I threw your stone at it!
:D

by inkling

I believe that only way to make a difference in today's society, however, is to align yourself with people that have similar goals.

T2 - You sound like you would be interested in the following organization: www.downsizedc.org

Dad - Two words: Fair Tax (www.fairtax.org).

I'm no expert, but I have done my research and I can not imagine a better plan for the purpose of taxation.

by tig2

I have read many of your posts and have learned that you and I think much the same on many issues.

I have also read Fair Tax. It is unquestionably a step in the right direction but doesn't address a few essential points.

I don't mind paying for certain programs. We need a military and we need some fundamental services. But Nancy Pelosi doesn't NEED a private jet that I am required to pay for. Why does the White House NEED several planes that can become Air Force One based on the a$$ that is sitting on it? And when do I get to choose how MY money is spent?

Deep breath. Relax. Come down from the soapbox...

I'm better now. I think I will go investigate your link. It will keep me from expounding further.

by w2ktechman

Tiggers are better when enjoyable and light hearted!

Ok, I too have already seen fairtax and have some issues with it. But, it does address quite a few as well. It sounds better than the current system.

by w2ktechman

everything and come up with a better system...

Lets see now, how many personal off-shore accounts will I need... Hmmmm... Oops, you arent supposed to see that part (random thoughts).

by danlm

http://www.loc.gov/rr/business/hottopic/irs_history.html

[i]The origin of the income tax on individuals is generally cited as the passage of the 16th Amendment, passed by Congress on July 2, 1909, and ratified February 3, 1913; however, its history actually goes back even further. During the Civil War Congress passed the Revenue Act of 1861 which included a tax on personal incomes to help pay war expenses. The tax was repealed ten years later. However, in 1894 Congress enacted a flat rate Federal income tax, which was ruled unconstitutional the following year by the U.S. Supreme Court because it was a direct tax not apportioned according to the population of each state. The 16th amendment, ratified in 1913, removed this objection by allowing the Federal government to tax the income of individuals without regard to the population of each State. For additional information on the history of taxation in the United States, see the Fact Sheet: Taxes prepared by the U. S. Treassury on the history of the U.S. tax system.[/i]

Actually, I thought I would find something all the way back to the origins of the government. How else were standing armies and navy's paid for? The US Navy was established under President Jefferson. How else did he pay for it??

But, that's what I found. Is that what you was looking for OnTheRopes?

Dan
[i]Edited to add: [/i]
God, I found more... This is getting disheartening that they actually have a museum on the history of tax's.
http://www.tax.org/Museum/default.htm

by w2ktechman

keep trying though.
The question was not about the history of taxes, but to prove the legality of the Federal Income Tax by providing (written) the law that requires it.
This should also take into account the Supreme Court rulings as well.

by danlm

That tax's can be collected. There is nothing else to look at. That's it.

Which address's both your points.

And here is the wording of the 16th amendment.

Amendment XVI

[i]The [u]Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived[/u], without apportionment among the several states, and without regard to any census or enumeration. [/i]
http://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/constitution.amendmentxvi.html

[i]16th Amendment
In 1895, in the Supreme Court case of Pollock v Farmer's Loan and Trust (157 U.S. 429), the Court disallowed a federal tax on income from real property. The tax was designed to be an indirect tax, which would mean that states need not contribute portions of a whole relative to its census figures. The Court, however, ruled that the tax was a direct tax and subject to apportionment. This was the last in a series of conflicting court decisions dating back to the Civil War. Between 1895 and 1909, when the amendment was passed by Congress, the Court began to back down on its position, as it became clear not only to accountants but to everyone that the solvency of the nation was in jeopardy. In a series of cases, the definition of "direct tax" was modified, bent, twisted, and coaxed to allow more taxation efforts that approached an income tax.

[Finally, with the ratification of the 16th Amendment, any doubt was removed. The text of the Amendment makes it clear that though the categories of direct and indirect taxation still exist, any determination that income tax is a direct tax will be irrelevant, because taxes on incomes, from salary or from real estate, are explicitly to be treated as indirect. The Congress passed the Amendment on July 12, 1909, and it was ratified on February 3, 1913 (1,302 days).[/i]
http://www.usconstitution.net/constamnotes.html

And sadly to say, here is a government web site with full history of that amendment. This also list's off court case's verifying the legality of it. Which was your second point.
http://www.gpoaccess.gov/constitution/html/amdt16.html

Its a part of the constitution, you are not going to get any more concrete then that.

[i]The Amendment Process

There are essentially two ways spelled out in the Constitution for how to propose an amendment. One has never been used.

The first method is for a bill to pass both houses of the legislature, by a two-thirds majority in each. Once the bill has passed both houses, it goes on to the states. This is the route taken by all current amendments. Because of some long outstanding amendments, such as the 27th, Congress will normally put a time limit (typically seven years) for the bill to be approved as an amendment (for example, see the 21st and 22nd).

The second method prescribed is for a Constitutional Convention to be called by two-thirds of the legislatures of the States, and for that Convention to propose one or more amendments. These amendments are then sent to the states to be approved by three-fourths of the legislatures or conventions. This route has never been taken, and there is discussion in political science circles about just how such a convention would be convened, and what kind of changes it would bring about.

Regardless of which of the two proposal routes is taken, the amendment must be ratified, or approved, by three-fourths of states. There are two ways to do this, too. The text of the amendment may specify whether the bill must be passed by the state legislatures or by a state convention. See the Ratification Convention Page for a discussion of the make up of a convention. Amendments are sent to the legislatures of the states by default. Only one amendment, the 21st, specified a convention. In any case, passage by the legislature or convention is by simple majority.

The Constitution, then, spells out four paths for an amendment:

* Proposal by convention of states, ratification by state conventions (never used)
* Proposal by convention of states, ratification by state legislatures (never used)
* Proposal by Congress, ratification by state conventions (used once)
* Proposal by Congress, ratification by state legislatures (used all other times)

It is interesting to note that at no point does the President have a role in the formal amendment process (though he would be free to make his opinion known). He cannot veto an amendment proposal, nor a ratification. This point is clear in Article 5, and was reaffirmed by the Supreme Court in Hollingsworth v Virginia (3 USC 378 [1798]):[/i]

http://www.usconstitution.net/constam.html

Please don't ask me to read court rulings, no matter what I thought it would most likely be wrong. Here is the supreme court web site in case anyone else wants to interpret that crap.

http://www.supremecourtus.gov/

roflmao. Having problems sleeping. Don't want to take drugs? click on http://www.supremecourtus.gov/ and bore yourself to sleep. And this can all be had for the low, low, price of. You got it... Free, brought to you by your friendly federal government. Your tax dollars at work.

god, that was bad. Sorry, I couldn't spell the words for a disclaimer.. lol

Dan

by ontheropes

...for proving that the IRS has the right to tax American workers. As far as I can see the money is still up for grabs so you should get over there with your proof right away

Tax experts from the IRS and Constitutional law experts apparently haven't been able to show that the IRS has that right after what, 5 years since the award was posted and here you've done it in just the matter of a few minutes/hours!?!. (deep bow)
Now I'm stuck with an unexpected conflict. I don't know who I should believe, you or the experts and attorneys. I'll get back to you when I decide. After you pick up the cash I'll be leaning towards believing you. Until then... Hmmm... (thinking) Yep. Still conflicted.

I appreciate the effort you put into a longer reply than your first post. I thought that one was a little lame.

Re: Court rulings? I've read a ton of them and they damn sure are boring. I think you could find an equal and opposite ruling for almost anything. What bothers me is when a Judge says not to bring the law into his courtroom or did you miss that part? Did you even watch the video? Or maybe that doesn't bother you, and that's cool. It bothers me

Nothing seems to be as simple as it appears to be on the surface and I seriously doubt that my government, including the IRS, acts in my best interest. I wonder if it ever does.

When you pick up the 50 Grand I wonder what your income tax liability is going to be on it. :^0 :^0 :^0

The answer is: Whatever the IRS says it's going to be. :|

My bandwidth is still seriously hammered so I'm not going to stick around. Just getting here to reply was worse than the POTS days.

by ontheropes

My bandwidth was down to some ridiculously low level yesterday so I couldn't view the overall discussion like I normally do. I just happened to pick your reply first from my email notifications.



:)

by ontheropes

It's nice to know people who aren't going to give up.

I'm with you.

You and I could've talked about martial law a long time ago.

Question: What's the difference between ignorance and apathy?

Answer: I don't know and I don't care. (old joke -sorry)

by dadspad

I hope things are much better now, after the bankruptcy.

Military

Nevermind the current politics. We need to keep a strong military, when we do not, things elsewhere in the world go against us. Before World War II, the US wanted peace. Still remembering WWI, even with Europe and South Pacific showing aggression, the US people did not want to get involved. Our military was weak for the times. It took a drastic act (Pearl Harbor) to change minds in the US. Had the Japanese navy kept coming, instead of turning back, they could have taken over a portion of western US. Now days we have much bigger guns, but all conflicts will need military men and women to fight.

As was said in another post, the tax issue is very complicated. We mostly see what is presented on the media, but there are thousands of other things our taxes take care of. Who will fix the pothole in the street infront of your house? Who will prosecute the person that broke in your neighbor's house? Well, you get the thoughts. The Federal Gov takes care of big issues, but the local affects us more.

There is also waste in all parts of government, just more glaring in D.C. :)

by ontheropes

I'm fine and surviving everything so far but my country is going to hell in a hand basket.

Have you watched both videos beginning to end?

Have you read through all of the material?

Where does it all fall apart for you because for me it all fits frighteningly well.

I'm not here to promote any agenda. Period. End of story.

People might be laughing their asses off at me and that's fine. Just view all of the material and think on it.

Just THINK people THINK. You are still free to think.

The quote above from Thomas Jefferson has shown to be very true.

by dadspad

OTR, I am not laughing at you. The videos used the truth to its own ends. These facts have been in the news before. The only thing I had a hard time with was the interviews with people that listed themselves as working for the IRS and going puplic against their employers.

Our country has fought wars to preserve our freedom and way of life. It disturbs me more to see people willing to give up those freedoms and let others control their life. There will always be dangers in the world, as there always has been. I don't want our country to become a bunch of scared rabbits looking for a wolf to protect them.

Dad

Opps, there is the soapbox out again. I am kicking it under the table now. :)

by absolutely

[i]As was said in another post, the tax issue is very complicated. We mostly see what is presented on the media, but there are thousands of other things our taxes take care of. Who will fix the pothole in the street in front of your house?[/i]

Anybody with a wheelbarrow, a hose and a bit of cement.

by w2ktechman

Because the street is city/county property. Making improvements or alterations will get you fined and possibly arrested.
My little brother was trying to get a cat off of a power pole once, and the Police came to stop him. Funny, he almost had the cat too...

by ontheropes

...that I finally see the entire truth that I've volunteered to help in any way shape, form or fashion.

How could I NOT volunteer?

I'm not trying to promote that anyone else do anything besides think for themselves but I MUST volunteer!

Man, what a long strange trip it's been until I finally "got it!" :0 :^0

Now I must take action.

by dadspad

But somepeople cannot mix cement. Some people will insist that others must do it. On the other side of the US, where I live, the streets are asphalt. While the asphalt is available, the pressure roller to compress it is expensive to rent :D

Dad

just checked the soapbox is still under the table.

by dadspad

even when I activate the view all posts. All the posts are there, just no reply button.

Dad

by ontheropes

What kind of leadership sends cash into a war zone?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,,2008189,00.html

http://www.amconmag.com/2005/2005_10_24/cover.html

http://ipsnews.net/africa/interna.asp?idnews=25168

"The US flew nearly $12bn in shrink-wrapped $100 bills into Iraq, then distributed the cash with no proper control over who was receiving it and how it was being spent.

The staggering scale of the biggest transfer of cash in the history of the Federal Reserve has been graphically laid bare by a US congressional committee.

In the year after the invasion of Iraq in 2003 nearly 281 million notes, weighing 363 tonnes, were sent from New York to Baghdad for disbursement to Iraqi ministries and US contractors. Using C-130 planes, the deliveries took place once or twice a month with the biggest of $2,401,600,000 on June 22 2004, six days before the handover.

by absolutely

To be more meaningful, these images should be scaled to the countries' GDPs. In the first case, we would see the ratio of spending in the military sector to total income, which would tell us how nations prioritize warfare [u]in comparison[/u] to the rest of their economy. For the second image, "War and death", we would see what political science has known for some time; that peace is strongly correlated to prosperity. Including "individual liberty" indexes make the latter correlation even stronger, historically.

by ontheropes

If you visit the website you can see the data for the images is from 2002 and visualizes each countries percentage of total military spending worldwide. In 2002 the United States spent 45% of the total worldwide spending.
I'll let others draw their own conclusions from that.
The world map for war deaths was interesting to me when I posted it as an image of where the money spent on the military might be better used to alleviate human suffering. Proof I guess that at heart I care about my fellowman and think true diplomacy and acceptance/tolerance of all religions is a better course. That's just a personal principle of mine.

If I have undeniable proof that someone is trying to kill me or violate my rights as I understand my rights to be, the fight is on.

Today I also volunteered to help a presidential candidate that I've been following.

Like I've said, I have a lot of work ahead of me and I'll make mistakes. I'm used to mistakes and it seldom stops me, at least I'm not dead from one of my mistakes yet.

by absolutely

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2034rank.html

Just for the sake of a vibrant discussion, here is a [u]contrary[/u] view to what I was starting to argue about military spending vs. GDP:

[i]Linking military spending to the GDP is an argument frequently made by supporters of higher military budgets. Comparing military spending (or any other spending for that matter) to the GDP tells you how large a burden such spending puts on the US economy, but it tells you nothing about the burden a $440 billion military budget puts on U.S. taxpayers. Our economy may be able to bear higher military spending, but the question today is whether current military spending levels are necessary and whether these funds are going towards the proper priorities. Further, such comparisons are only made when the economy is healthy. It is unlikely that those arguing that military spending should be a certain portion of GDP would continue to make this case if the economy suddenly weakened, thus requiring dramatic cuts in the military.

? Chris Hellman[/i]

http://www.globalissues.org/Geopolitics/ArmsTrade/Spending.asp

If military spending is so important, why do the images that [u]you posted[/u] show the largest number of war deaths occurring in the countries with the [u]lowest[/u] military spending?

It is not [u]ALL[/u] the fault of the United States. Some of it is because of the tendency of desperate people to resort to desperate measures. If I could make one recommendation to people seeking world peace, it would be to forget about the guns & bombs and vaccinating babies. Forget about the people who are dying right now, and who are sure to die tomorrow. It's sad, yes, but more is sure to follow if you don't solve the problem at the root. Follow the money, and prevent much more unnecessary death next year, and the year after. All the meaningless violence is about seizing wealth. Always has been & always will be. Get rid of trade barriers, and the money will naturally disperse fairly evenly among all populaces that participate in [u]free[/u] trade.

by absolutely

[i]Because the street is city/county property. Making improvements or alterations will get you fined and possibly arrested.[/i]

Although true, this is also stupid. Participatory democracy means that stupid laws are changeable.

by absolutely

I see the same problems. They took a long time to create. Although any individual's understanding or appreciation of the problems and their interconnectedness does tend to be sudden, they will not be solved suddenly, nor simply. I mean to discourage over-simplification, not enthusiasm. I salute you.

by ontheropes

That sounds like something a truly erudite criminal investigator would say. I just have to laugh. :D

Not to dismiss the rest of your post but I have to ask 2 or 3 questions first before I get distracted. What is in the vaults at Fort Knox? I want to see it. Live and in person. Why won't my government let me see it? Why are they afraid of lil' ol' me seeing their big ol' pile of gold?

by ontheropes

Think along the lines that it's possible that if even one theory is right it may lead you to real understanding.

Push your previous assumptions and beliefs to the back of your mind.

All of them. Regardless of the source.

Look at the problems with a clean slate in your hand and mark down what you really know to be true, not just what you've been told is true.

The old saying that goes, "He who is convinced against their will remains of the same opinion still." That's why you must think for yourself. Not like I or anyone else tell you or lead you to think and believe but in the sure and certain knowledge that we hold to be self-evident, that all men are created equal.

by ontheropes

Swiss banks.

Why does Switzerland only spend 1% of their GDP on the military?

I think I know the answer but now it's up to someone else to reason it all out for themselves.

by tig2

I need to noodle it awhile but will post MY answer.

Your mileage may vary.

by ontheropes

Please unhose your video settings. I believe wholeheartedly that you owe it to yourself to watch both videos front to back.

by absolutely

I saw the one about not being required to pay taxes -- great news, that, by the way. There's another? Crikey!

by ontheropes

If you unhose your computer and watch the videos it will save me a lot of money on gasoline. I'll bring my computer and set it up for you so that you can watch them as soon as possible.

I'm not kidding. I'm NOT kidding!

by tig2

But only because gas prices are so d@mned high.

I had been hoping to find an other source for the information but have not been successful. I will light up a test box and take a look.

Even without that view, I get what you are saying. At least, I think I do. And I agree.

I wish I knew how to fix my country. If you know, even a small way, tell me. The writing on the wall I see is that I will find myself living as far from everything as I can get and hiding from the world. The alternative is to just paint a nice big target on myself and go on being the obnoxious b*tch I am.

So much for the "retirement" years, eh?

by tig2

Ropes is not in LA. Don't ask how I know that, but I do. There is no place called "Breast Cancer 3 Day Walker" in any state in the 50 I call home, either. Obfuscation is a requirement, sometimes.

Anyone can spin anything they like to their own ends. Not a first, won't be a last. But truth can find it's way out of the spin and stand on it's own.

Since the 80's that I am aware of, groups have protested the tax machine and tried to get people to listen. Often to no avail. They were branded "Un-American" and largely ignored. Even the IRS ignored them because the IRS didn't care. They were freaks and wierdos- why should anyone care? Until those freaks and wierdos started representing a larger share of the tax burden. Then the IRS cared.

And honestly? I know people who work for the IRS. I know a couple who have protested. No one cares.

We are willing to give up our freedoms on a daily basis, it seems. Can we all say "Real ID?" No one cares and many will fight for it.

I have been in the position to try to use some of the "services" that I had been paying taxes for. I was the wrong colour and the wrong level of irresponsibility to get help. And the help I DID receive, I am paying back.

There is a problem in this country. It is a deep problem and it is pervasive.

All Ropes is saying is "Think about it". I think he's right, but that's just me.

Edit- I missed an "s"

by ontheropes

Actually you can give me a shout anytime but I've gotten a little bit busy here just recently. I will always answer the phone if I can and return your call as soon as I can too.

by dadspad

that the link should not be read or that people should not be aware of what is happening in our country. Quite the opposite.

In fact, it would be very good to have a lot of people see this documentary so the next presidential primary and election will have a lot of attention and voters turn out to stop the trend set now.

In the documentary, one of the disturbing things was the injection of tracking device under the skin of employees. [Actually the same thing can be done with ID badges easier.] Even with politics aside, the internet accelerated more information being available to more people than ever before; very personal information. Cell phones will have GPS traking in them; more cars are being bought with GPS driving instruction hardware; OnStar service can track your car, should anyone (like police) be interested, are just a few.

What I am saying is that viewing the documentary will make you angry, scared or, possibly, disbelief. When the same thing is coming from a different directions (which may not be considered bad).

Dad

kicking soapbox under table, again :)

by ontheropes

(thud)

https://www.techrepublic.com.com/5208-6230-0.html?forumID=102&threadID=223233&messageID=2238512

by absolutely

"We're sorry, but this video may not be available.

Try refreshing the page to see this video.

To see more videos visit our home page"

I know I followed your link to the tax video just a couple days ago!

[edit: The youtube page is "back". Maybe Ropes just sent too many people there in too short a time?]

by tig2

I guess my point was that the truth can be told in a variety of ways.

I watched both videos. I flatly disagree with the points made in the 9/11 vid. I know engineering and I know aircraft. The fault had nothing or little to do with the fires, had everything to do with the architecture of the buildings. If you destroy enough of the supports in balloon architecture, it fails and it fails in exactly the way that the buildings came down. It fails from above the damage line and downward in a reasonably straight progression. I can tell you all about why that happens but would likely end up putting your teeth to sleep.

At the end (darn, Dad- did you send your soapbox here???) 9/11 theory isn't the crux of the point. This country has been doing wrong stuff for a long time now. And they want to do worse.

And no- documentaries are not my only source of information. This country has been in deep do-do for a long time. And it really doesn't take much to scratch off the pretty wrapping and see the seething mass of maggots that has been "powering" things for quite some time.

I think that people should be inflamed. But I also think that they should be inflamed enough to get off their collective and DO something.

In another thread, I asked "what kind of world do you want?" But I was also asking what you were willing to do to reach that world. I want a world without breast cancer. I am tired of living with that particular threat. I am willing to take action. I raise $$$, walk 60 miles in 3 days and am trying to find my way through the insurance nightmare to finally have the prophylactic mastectomy that has been recommended for the last year. Will that give me a world without breast cancer? Nope. It will give me a ME without breast cancer and out from under the sword of Damoclese that I have been living with, and let me think that I am doing the right thing... or at least trying.

This country HAS become a bunch of scared rabbits, convinced that RFID chipping is a good thing and believing that the almighty government will save our collective fuzzy tails. I find that I can't verbalise my level of disgust with this. My mommy told me not to say those words.

You want your soapbox back?

by danlm

Right off the top, this judge claims that 2 thirds of the states did not ratify this amendment. At the time the amendment was ratified, Feb 3, 1913 there were 48 states in the union. Two thirds of the states are required to ratify any amendment, please see my previous post. Two thirds of 48 is 32. 16 + 16 =32 + 16 = 48.

Following is a list of all 50 states sorted in the order they joined the union. The order of the column are as follows: date state joined union, name of state, ratification date, and notation if ratification was on or before 02/13/1913.

Dec. 7, 1787 Delaware Delaware,February 3, 1913; ratified in time
Dec. 12, 1787 Pennsylvania
Dec. 18, 1787 New Jersey
Jan. 2, 1788 Georgia Georgia, August 3, 1910; ratified in time
Jan. 9, 1788 Connecticut
Feb. 6, 1788 Massachusetts Massachusetts, March 4, 1913;
April 28, 1788 Maryland Maryland, April 8,1910; ratified in time
May 23, 1788 South Carolina Kentucky, February 8,1910; ratified in time
June 21, 1788 New Hampshire New Hampshire, March 7, 1913
June 25, 1788 Virginia
July 26, 1788 New York New York, July 12, 1911; ratified in time
Nov. 21, 1789 North Carolina North Carolina, February11, 1911; ratified in time
May 29, 1790 Rhode Island
March 4, 1791 Vermont Vermont, February 19, 1913;
June 1, 1792 Kentucky Kentucky, February 8,1910; ratified in time
June 1, 1796 Tennessee Tennessee, April7, 1911; ratified in time
March 1, 1803 Ohio Ohio, January 19,1911; ratified in time
April 30, 1812 Louisiana Louisiana, June 28, 1912; ratified in time
Dec. 11, 1816 Indiana Indiana, January 30, 1911; ratified in time
Dec. 10, 1817 Mississippi Mississippi, March 7, 1910 ratified in time
Dec. 3, 1818 Illinois Illinois, March 1, 1910; ratified in time
Dec. 14, 1819 Alabama Alabama, August 10, 1909 ratified in time
March 15, 1820 Maine Maine, March 31, 1911; ratified in time
Aug. 10, 1821 Missouri Kansas, March 2,1911; ratified in time
June 15, 1836 Arkansas Arkansas, April 22, 1911 ratified in time
Jan. 26, 1837 Michigan Michigan, February 23, 1911; ratified in time
March 3, 1845 Florida
Dec. 29, 1845 Texas Texas, August 16, 1910; ratified in time
Dec. 28, 1846 Iowa Iowa, February 24, 1911; ratified in time
May 29, 1848 Wisconsin Wisconsin, May 16, 1911; ratified in time
Sept. 9, 1850 California California, January 31, 1911; ratified in time
May 11, 1858 Minnesota Minnesota, June 11, 1912; ratified in time
Feb. 14, 1859 Oregon Oregon, January 23, 1911; ratified in time
Jan. 29, 1861 Kansas Kansas, March 2,1911; ratified in time
June 20, 1863 West Virginia West Virginia, January 31, 1913; ratified in time
Oct. 31, 1864 Nevada Nevada, January 31, 1911; ratified in time
March 1, 1867 Nebraska Nebraska, February 9, 1911; ratified in time
Aug. 1, 1876 Colorado Colorado, February 15, 1911; ratified in time
Nov. 2, 1889 North Dakota North Dakota, February 17, 1911; ratified in time
Nov. 2, 1889 South Dakota South Dakota,February 1, 1911; ratified in time
Nov. 8, 1889 Montana Montana, January 27, 1911; ratified in time
Nov. 11, 1889 Washington Washington,January 26, 1911; ratified in time
July 3, 1890 Idaho Idaho, January 20, 1911; ratified in time
July 10, 1890 Wyoming Wyoming, February 3, 1913; ratified in time
Jan. 4, 1896 Utah
Nov. 16, 1907 Oklahoma Mississippi, March 7, 1910 ratified in time
Jan. 6, 1912 New Mexico New Mexico, February 3,1913; ratified in time
Feb. 14, 1912 Arizona Arizona, April 3, 1912;
Jan. 3, 1959 Alaska
Aug. 21, 1959 Hawaii
37 states ratified in time

By my math, neither the judge mentioned in the movie nor the person that created that document on the federal web site know how to add. http://www.gpoaccess.gov/constitution/html/conamt.html

The above web site is where I acquired the ratification dates for each state.

My reference for when the states joined the union is here:
http://www.50states.com/statehood.htm

Sorry, that amendment was ratified by the required amount of states.

If anyone would like to review my math, I used an excel spreadsheet that didn't copy wort crap for this. I will be more then happy to forward it to you for your review.

Dan
[i]Edited the crap out of this:[/i] I have bloody bad eye site, so if you see errors in this document. Trust me, I won't take offense. So please, point out the error.

Chuckle, by the way. 2 states joined the union the year I was born. Have always know this, but it's nice to see it in print. ;o)~ ~ ~

Let me add to this. There is a 7 year time period allowed for ratification of an amendment. I believe that was mentioned in my previous post also. This amendment was proposed on July 12,1909. 7 years had not passed.

by ontheropes

https://www.techrepublic.com.com/5208-6230-0.html?forumID=102&threadID=223233&messageID=2239286

I'm still not trying to mess with you. I am just whooped and didn't want ya' to think I'm ignoring you but I have a lot to do right now. Don't go away.

by danlm

You asked me if I had watched the movie, and I hadn't. Last night I started watching it and the first comment I seen was by the judge in 2003 stating that 2/3'ds had not passed the 16th amendment. My second post was in trying to dispute what this judge had said. Which, by the way I still haven't done. I was incorrect in my thinking that 2/3'ds of the states had to ratify the amendment. First, it's 2/3'ds of the congress before it makes it to the states.

When I get home tonight from work(which I'm on my way to), I will see if I can find the vote count that sent that amendment to the states. I'm trying to address your question ropes with verifiable information. And not bloody Wikipedia. I do not trust that as a source.

Never thought you was ignoring me, I'm just trying to either prove or disprove this judge's statements from 2003.

By the way, I do not dispute the comments about JP Morgan or the other bankers. Not an issue, they were wily old coots and I totally believe they said those things.

Dan

by danlm

[i]Of the 48 states, here's the story:

* Eight states (Rhode Island, Utah, Connecticut, New Hampshire, Kentucky, Florida, Virginia and Pennsylvania) did not approve or ratify the amendment.
* Texas and Louisiana were forbidden by their own state constitutions to empower the federal government to tax.
* Vermont and Massachusetts rejected the amendment with a recorded vote count, and only later declared it passed without a recorded vote after the amendment was declared ratified by Knox.
* Tennessee, Ohio, Mississippi, California and Washington violated their state constitutions in their ratification procedures.
* Minnesota did not send any copy of its resolution to Knox, let alone a signed and sealed one, as required.
* And Oklahoma, Georgia and Illinois made unacceptable changes in wording. (Some of the above states also made such changes, in addition to their other unacceptable procedures.)

Take 48 states, deduct these 21, and you have proper ratification by only 27 states -- far less than the required 36. [/i]

http://www.givemeliberty.org/features/taxes/19990709_xcdfr_is_income.htm

Ok, thee is no way I can go about verifying these facts. But, I thought you would be interested in seeing why people feel this amendment was never ratified correctly.

by ontheropes

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6708190071483512003

I bought the AFTF (America Freedom to Fascism Directors Cut today.

An interesting thing happened while I was taking care of my birthday tax at my Secretary of State's office today.

Crowded, as usual, so I excused my way over to a fairly vacant space where I started chit-chat with another guy. We started off talking in hushed tones about how hard it is to find work around here and it seemed like half of the room became quiet, just listening. As the conversation progressed, he brought up a few "issues" I have in common with him. I told him of my discoveries calmly and quietly while glancing towards everyone else occasionally. One guy was just glaring at me and when I was listening to my newly-found friend I heard some guy clearly say, "That's dangerous talk boy" ! :^0

Seriously. :^0 :^0 :^0

I think it sounded like the voice of the first local to be standing in line to receive his I.D. chip. :(

What else of minor interest?

I touched base with one of my closest retired LEO buds, close friends for the past 20 years.

The conversation rolled around to another LEO friend who'd quit the Department to work for the NSA, (No Such Agency). Turns out he quit there and moved to a little cabin without electricity on some mountain-top in . If I ever get over that way I'm going to ask him WTF! A decorated Marine Corp. veteran, every inch a patriot, who'd landed his "dream job" as he put it the last I saw him and now he's living on a remote mountain-top? No conclusions drawn or implied by me here, as I said, of minor interest.

Also, my old LEO friend lives in a nice place, but bad location, close to a State Super-Max prison. He told me that the State wants to fill the entire large, field in front of his place with low-income affordable housing (trailers) for "families of the prisoners" but there are township zoning issues that have prevented it, so far. He's going to put his place up for sale in November and move to his Florida home permanently.

It's nice of the State to provide housing for families of the prisoners. I think. They may have to raise State taxes to do it but at least prisoners families will be comfy. Hardly an issue for me to be concerned about.

Edited to add this little bit of nothing: While I was geeting my papers I talked with the woman behind the counter, a very nice older lady. (irrelevant) Anyway, I simply asked if they had any job openings and she just laughed. :|
She said she was looking for another one herself because the State recently cut her wages and increased her out-of-pocket insurance costs while the State officials just voted themselves a pay raise. (also irrelevant- sorry I edited now) :(

I've discovered another puzzling irrelevancy.
Just today I realized that I know of three recent occurrences of my friends upgrading to better housing, going deeper into debt in the process and then losing their great large corporation jobs. (I'm irrelevant again. Do not read.)

Doh.

Too late idint it?

Original quote, "It's only over when I say it's over." Oh wait... I think my wife said that. B-)
She can get pissed off a little too easily if you ask me. Sung to the tune of "Redneck women are too hard to handle." Now she wants me to sign some kind of stoopid petition that she's circulating. I guess I'll do it just to keep her from calling me names. :)
Women, once they get pissed off they seem to stay pissed off until things are the way they want them to be. Dang patriot! :^0

by ontheropes

Great! You got to watch 'em and draw your own conclusions. B-) :x

I have a post to Absolutely further down the thread that you might want to look at.

I am seriously making three tracks right now. Long day and I didn't get much of anything done besides exchanging contact points with a few newly-found friends blah blah blah.

The high-point of my day was talking for hours at length with my ol' ex-Marine, LEO bud (mentioned below) and his wife. LeoBud has been the counties arson investigator for 23 years after receiving Federally funded and continuous training. You'd like the guy. Speaks his mind and picks apart every single movie or TV show with blistering yet entertaining comments. "WTF! They just shot six rounds in an enclosed room and now they're whispering to each other?" Cracks me up.

Since he has broadband I loaded the bookmarks for the videos on his PC and expect a scathing, uninterested party, review. I'm going to record video of his review for my review. The I'll record my review of his review, for his review. ?:|
(On to Infinity, Awaaay!!!) ?:|

I'm about tuckered out. :)

I am genuinely looking forward to what he has to say. I worked with him and have entrusted my life to him on several occasions.

He says the current crop of cops aren't anything like the old bunch. "Tase 'em first, talk to 'em later." He refused to carry a taser and fought the department over it and won. Said he didn't need it 'cause we're people, not cattle. Nice guy, 'til he gets pissed off.

There doesn't appear to be a local office for the presidential candidate I support which is JUST FRICKIN'DUCKIE NOW, ain't it?

I've got other work to do right now so I'll get back to ya' on the whole shmole later.

"Stay tuned while we pause for this commercial break from Mega-Corp." :x

by ontheropes

The yoohoo you yoohoo into the woods is the yoohoo you get back. :^0

Keep thinking Dad. Not meant to imply that you have to reach any particular conclusion.
I've reached one for myself. Doesn't have to be the same one you reach.

In fact I value critical thinking and it's important enough to me that you don't tune out alternative viewpoints like people are wont to do and that you continue to think on what I think may be relevant points.

I don't believe I'll ever feel a need to tell you or anyone to leave my thread alone and pout that I don't want to talk to you no more . :^0
Not that I can think of any particular free speech proponent that does that, a lot. :^0

Sorry but I gotta go.

Peace

by tig2

"May you always live in interesting times"

Don't recall who came up with that one but just about now, I would like to wring his neck.

I live in a townhouse development with lots of kids. We are a quiet community that doesn't want problems. This evening, a pair of kids found it necessary to come through our neighbourhood at about 70 MPH. Posted is 30. Most of us never exceed 20. Anyway, these sh*theads found it necessary to take out both the street sign and the lightpost (oh good, live wires in the street) and then race off. They came back after switching drivers (you can see a lot from the second floor about 30 feet away) and realising that they left the license plate from the car behind.

So what has this to do with the price of tea, you ask?

Simple.

It is yet another symptom of what is going wrong with the country. And before I hear from anyone telling me that "kids will be kids"... NO. I never in my life did anything so recklessly irresponsible as to race through a residential area, potentially endangering lives.

We all ran out of our homes fearing that someone was hurt. Many of us with cell phones talking to 911. I grabbed a med kit on the way out. In retrospect, should have grabbed a wire kit. We were all certain that this person must have taken someone out.

I can hear the light tones of my neighbours talking- even at 10:12 at night. My neighbours walk their pets and are active in the area until late at night. I immediately thought of the two year old who lives next door to me.

Fortunately, no one was hurt. The street marker and light were the casualties. The neighbourhood almost feels normal again.

Except that I have a lingering feeling of not feeling even the modicum of safety that I had a few hours ago. I feel more vulnerable, less secure.

And I ask myself- even challenge myself about the fear.

I feel more fear because the world is increasingly more dangerous. Crime rate aside, there is less and less that you can reliably hang your hat on. What a pity that is!

Have no clue where I was intending to go with this. Just wish for the times when I could go sleep in the living room of the non air conditioned house I grew up in in Southern California and know that it was okay that the front door wasn't closed and locked. I deplore what has been lost and wish that I could find a way to get some of that back.

It's pretty sad when bedtime conversation is if, and which, gun is loaded. But that is what we have become.

I want a better world.

by tig2

To change the way we think so that we believe and understand that nothing will be handed to us.

To stop the fallacy of thought that expects that the gov will somehow make it all better.

To become convinced that the only path is through the requirement of taking personal responsibility. To be willing to follow that path, no matter what.

To give up on the hand out and only value a hand up.

To be willing to say NO, once and for all time.

To be willing to free each and every human being to become all that they are capable of by unshackling them from a theoretical "minimum" that they must meet. To encourage them all to find what they are capable of.

To teach self awareness to all who do not know.

There's the basics, near as I can tell.

by ontheropes


:^0

I got here first. :^0
Where's my stoopid agenda though? Left it in my carry-on baggage did I?. :0

Did I ever tell you that I think that your simple appearing noodling's to other(s) of PEACE are awesome? My hat is off to you. (NFS) :) :0 :^0
Somehow, where ever you learned the WWWWWorH, you got the "right stuff" ya' girly type girl. I'd throw down my last NCG-MS-65 Type II Jefferson Nickel on a bet you believe could be possible against all odds. :x Go Tig Go.

Of no interest to anyone but me. (boasting) I have a complete set of Jefferson MS-65 Nickels. Not for sale because I kindofsortof liked the dude for someungodlyknownreason.

by gadgetgirl

I have a thought on that. Assume you do to.

I'll pm you - as soon as I've finished this 14 person investigation in the secure unit..... no, I'm not kidding, I've been given a really good one, here

Bleepin' users....

GG

by ontheropes

Who controls "the media?" Why?

Remember Elementary school? (chants followthemoneyfollowthemoneyfollowthemoney)

The root cause/base analysis for any answer/action on your part would start with a critical thinking process: who, what, where, when, why and how?

Another aside and personal note to Dad: With only a very few exceptions I very much admire folks that don't get off of their soapbox and show that they can get pissed off. B-)
Rant away my friend. I want and need to hear your voice.

Where was I? Hmmm... There used to be a public, town-square, Aussie soapbox-type display of free speech, open to ridicule, occasionally abused, or is that gone now too. (don't stop thinking)

> Any and all y'all Aussie peacemonger-ish types and any other interested people can feel free to chime in here, or anywhere for that matter and post argumentative viewpoints.

Is anybody out there? (echo) is anybody out there?

Personal note to DE: Unbeknownst to you. I'm working on getting free DVD's into your hands but it's going to take a few seconds/minutes. You are not forgotten.

by absolutely

"But some people cannot mix cement."

Pleeeease! Some people [i]don't know how[/i] to mix cement, and [i]assume[/i] that they [i]can't[/i]. They're wrong, they just don't know they could do it because they haven't tried. Bottom line, the argument that it [u]wouldn't get done[/u] is fallacious.

by ontheropes

I was busy late last night thinking 'bout stuff I can do when I came up with a revolutionary idea to help my neighbors.

It probably won't pay me anything but I don't care. (Jimmy cracked corn...)

I low-balled (I thought), a Tech Support/Installation type contract to some nice folks but it was still "big bucks" for them so I didn't get the job. :)
Today I'm gonna' go over there and tell 'em that I'll do all of the work that needs to be done for FREE if they'll just take about three hours out of their slavish workdays to listen to a few FREE videos and look at a few links.

If they don't like the idea of "at no charge" to them I'll double my FREE offer. :^0

Maybe I'm stoopid to just volunteer in that way.

So?
It's not like they don't have a lot of hard working people that they talk to everyday. (Doubles everywhere in this post) :)

Gotta' go a few more miles yet all y'all.

Peace on you. :x

What sacrifice? Who was that Ghandi man and what would he say about peace? Why should I care?

by dadspad

I have a closet full of them. My kids would take them away not to hear me :D
Why can Moms always be heard, Dads must talk to blank stares. :(

I agree with you on the 9/11 vid. I just did not have your expertise. I remember the TV experts explaining this just after it happened. They said the same thing you did. (I am seeing the dentist a lot lately and my teeth are asleep too much there :D

On 'what kind of world do you want?' thread, I posted to that one. Generally, I am more upbeat about the future. The RIFD they want to insert in everyone, I don't believe will happen. When it is happening to someone else, most people are apathetic, or at best uninformed. Look at Child Labor up until the late 19th and early 20th century.

http://www.historyplace.com/unitedstates/childlabor/

Until photos were published where people acually saw the conditions and resentment of the children, did anything happen. Today we have much faster news and information, including the internet. Why do you think countries (and our own military in the Mid-East) are restricting internet access?

See I told you I had more soapboxes!! :^0

I have not spoken about cancer, except to state I support you. Now I will.
1. I know I can never fill the way you do about this disease. I do want you to know I do care about you with all my heart.
2. I believe, strongly, that the pharmecutical companies will find a cure for any disease they can make a substantial profit on, cancer being one of those.
3. Anything you do to fight Cancer is very worthwhile.

As far as fear in our society. There has always been good and bad at any time in history. There is no excuse for what those kids did to endanger life recklessly, but their parents probably drive the same way. I did not drive that recklessly when I was young, but did know plenty of kids that did. I do not condone it, just that this is not new.

Don't believe things used to be worse, look up when birth control (the pill) was available for the public. Before that being pregnant without marriage was bad, but having a baby out of wedlock was a very serious matter. I know there are many other problems, but that one, up to then affected every woman.

Does anyone want a used soapbox? Slightly worn, good price. :p

Dad

by absolutely

[i] TiggerTwo, keep the soapbox

I have a closet full of them. My kids would take them away not to hear me
Why can Moms always be heard, Dads must talk to blank stares.[/i]

News flash: We are no more, or less, attentive to either parent. We ignore you both when you say things we don't feel like hearing!

:^0

by dadspad

a mother like my wife. You would ignore her at your peril. She had a way of talking to any kid that got their attention fast. If I yelled at the kids it scared them, so I tried to avoid that. But with Mom, they knew they were in trouble. :D

Dad

note: how did you post to the right of the maximum level?

by ontheropes

Massively edited after new information became clear to me.

Make of this anything you wish to make.

Peace.

by absolutely

does not mean that you "cannot"!

Instructions, including alternative to "View All Posts" button:

https://www.techrepublic.com.com/5208-6230-0.html?forumID=102&threadID=223233&messageID=2241966

Your problem with "View All Posts" could be a temporary server malfunction (we get those, um, "occaionally"), or it could be something to do with your browser, or browser setting. I'll check back to see if you're able to post past "maximum" message level later today.

:

by absolutely

What you posted is part of it. The other part is the likely result of such incompleteness on one's tax return!

by danlm

Made me want to dig further. That is one of the reasons I don't like film clips like that. It sensationalizes without telling you specifics.

I wanted at least an understanding of where that statement came from. I don't know if what I posted is truth or not. Hell, I don't even know if that is what the judge is referencing when he made that statement in 2003.

People tell you to look at history when they talk about how bad things are today. And how things like privacy issues, corruption of government, abuses of power were what we fought to rid ourselves of. Well, every time I look into the history of this nation I can find examples of the same things happening all the way back to the beginning. The history of this nation has always had controversies. It's who we are. A large group of individuals with different idea's on what things mean and how things should be done. There will always be abuses of power, just like there always has been. But, it does nothing but make us stronger. Only quoting, or only knowing the good that has been done blinds a person to what this nation really is. Truth is knowing both the good and the bad.

Ok, I'll shut up now.

Dan

by absolutely

[i]Ok, I'll shut up now.

Dan[/i]

:^0

Sorry, that's not what I think would please OnTheRopes, but you just left it hanging there, y'know? What I think would please him/her/it is this:

[i]Made me want to dig further. That is one of the reasons I don't like film clips like that. It sensationalizes without telling you specifics.

I wanted at least an understanding of where that statement came from. I don't know if what I posted is truth or not. Hell, I don't even know if that is what the judge is referencing when he made that statement in 2003.[/i]

About your dislike for film clips like that, (which I share) -- suppose OnTheRopes had presented all the same information as is condensed in that film, plus all the "background" info you're now digging for. Do you think that you would have read through it, or gotten bored and gone away? I think that in the case of surprising facts like these, the only way to get anybody's attention is to present them pretty much in the way that film did. I think it was about as good as it could be for its purpose.

by ontheropes

There were 135 workers laid-off from the local area hospitals.

The only way I found out about it is that I know people who still work there. Never saw that news in the paper. Maybe they just got tired of using the word layoff. :^0

The paper does report report that there's going to be increased surveillance for seatbelt compliance which is a good thing because community health-care just went down another notch.

Bummer. The closest hospital just added a new wing too.

by ontheropes

It is frustrating, (to say the least about it) trying to verify anything. For me, it's probably the age thing. I'm not as sharp as I never was. :|

One of my friends who I used to work for told me that he made more money with a good bank than he did from his Fortune 500 Co.

Now that company is just a husk compared to what it used to be.

Those "lucky" enough to have retired from there continue to see their pensions cuts via rising insurance costs and the rising cost of healthcare.

Wise investments and paying cash for his property have kept my friend from feeling the pinch but the rising price of gas and costly meds developed to treat a myriad of ailments makes it rough on a lot of the elderly and infirm.

by ontheropes

The fact that I'll never be completely able to share everything that I know or think I know about anything doesn't stop me from wanting to know more. If that clip helps/helped a single person to decide to delve deeper into current events and tragic historical events to form their own opinions instead of just accepting what they're told from a single source I am pleased.

Don't forget what Deepsand quoted, "As grows the circle of light, so grows the circle of darkness."

When I was a LEO I liked a challenging criminal case. Still do.

by ontheropes

For some reason your joke was so funny I dropped my bottled water. Now I have to get another one. :^0