London Bombed

And I particularly liked the 'f*ckwit' comment. I'm going to have to incorporate that in to my list of words to call other drivers when they aren't driving like ME. In fact, I may have to call my husband at home and call him a f*ckwit. I'm sure he's done something to deserve it. :)

a swillish American can find a cute girl who isn't too controlling, won't cheat, and doesn't mind if the dishes sit in the sink til after your stomach settles? :D

See some earlier posts and you'll realise why...

by jellimonsta Jul 7, 2005

have Essex girls been considered appropriate? :)

by jck Jul 8, 2005

a) I'm afraid to ask
b) too busy to hunt posts or learn how to search

Almost time to go to the landfill and install the expense entry standalone module.

This is only one in a long string of bombings in London so it is nothing new to those people. I believe that the emergency services where prepared for it and didn't lose a single person either.

If you think that this is the UK's 9-11 you had better not look back at the Hotel bombing where the then Prime Minister was staying along with several of the Cabernet Members who where killed.

Or the multitude of bombings that London has experienced for the past 30 -40 years. This is a little thing right at the moment with not a lot killed or injured.

The one good things about the POMS is they don't go off half cocked and shoot the S##t out of who may be responsible first they find out and then proceed to punish them. Does your memory stretch back to Locaby? Remember that Pan AM flight over Scotland?

While I'm no great fan of the POMS they will at least have things running smoothly by the end of the day and everyone in the city center will be getting home. And maybe I'm badly mistaken but wasn't it Tony Blair the UK Prime Minister who sent troops to Iraq and still has them and their equipment there? I understand that some wacko in the US has it posted on their web site that they are responsible because of the injustices that the British handed out prior to the US War of Independence as well as the different Wackos in Europe who are claiming responsibility who are supposed to be connected to some Muslim extremist group but both are unofficial at the moment.

This whole thing could just be some disgruntled Train Conductor who lost his job under Maggi Thatcher and then went on to become a Buss Conductor and lost that job as well. Hell that buss could have hit a land mine that fell off the back of a truck!

Right at this point in time we do not know who's responsible so it is hardly worthwhile starting a war over. If anything it is grounds for the British Troops to be recalled from Iraq to guard their home country and not be involved in another conflict that can not hurt the UK.

Think about what you type in before you start doing it again as the above makes you look silly.

Col ]:)

But to answer your question he gets his news from FOX the entertainment channel where everything American is great and the rest of the world just doesn't exist or if they do it is only to throw Brick Bats at the Yanks.

Col ]:)

by cuteelf Jul 7, 2005

One quiestion I asked when in London...where are the garbage bins? Trash?

I was told it used to be a fave spot of IRA for bombdrop offs.

So: when in london, pack your garbage to a bin in a business.

If anyone LOOOKS suspicious, report.

Listen to gut. Gut is boss. Only when sober.

Cute

Especially me at her age. Actually, while we have some things in common, we are quite different. She's more uptight. But aren't those the type that are more prone to erratic behavior when in a new environment? She's not one for adventure, which again, could be a good thing, but perhaps made her a little more naive. It doesn't matter what I come up with as a 'good' thing (channeling Martha Stewart), I can quickly shoot it down with a compelling and dire arguement against. NOW, it's gone in to overdrive...I'm thinking, Haley is fine, what about Joey? He's at the pool. His daycare SAYS they keep a good eye on all the kids, but what if they aren't watching him RIGHT THIS MINUTE.

I wish I could get paid for worrying. I'm a pro.

domestic terrorism...mae's gonna take your venacular and use it to harass her husband...the poor chap.

Hey mae...try and incorporate it into your next meeting...I'm sure it would go over...

We did a presentation once of a software tool that we developed...called the Security and Hacking Investigation Tool...on the front slide...you can see with "and" on the first line and each word below that on its own line what it spelled from the first letter of each line.

And no one EVER noticed it...hahaha ]:)

Gotta love clueless executive types who are more into when their tee-time is than the project they're supposed to be reviewing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran-Contra_Affair

Who sold arms to a regime that just a few years earlier had kidnapped American diplomats and held them hostage for a year, so they could finance a rebel group in Nicarauga (which many people considered terrorists).

To make it even better, at the same time that he was secretly selling arms to Iran, he was publicly supporting and sending aid to Saddam Hussein and Iraq in their war against Iran. It is conceivable that a American supplied TOW missle used by Iran could have hit an American supplied Iraqi truck.

And while Ron Reagan was in power, the IRA was openly fundraising in America, collecting money used to make bombs and buy guns to kill people in Northern Ireland.

Pinhead? Sure F*ckwit.

James

Blame Bush for the deaths in London? You sure are off on the deep end.

I wonder if Tony Blair shares that sentiment? Since he obviously doesn't, you might want to blame Blair as well. Bush and Blair are in this Iraq thing together, you know.

By the way, you are saying the exact same things the terrorists are saying. Therefore, we have an ally of the terrorists posting messages here.

So, how long have you been supporting terrorists? And when might you strap on one of those.......

Blaming Bush and Blair for muslim extremist terrorist acts...is somewhat like someone blaming the gun for someone getting shot.

Place blame where it belongs.

by dr dij Jul 7, 2005

kind of like blaming a Newsweek article for muslim extremists rioting.

....then you can look at the ethics of whether or not a story should be witheld because it might cause harm. I know many of you may thing that journalists don't have ethics, but I actually attended an ethics lecture for journalists once upon a time. I am not suggesting that Newsweek should or should not have published the article, just that they consider the impact of what they publish.

But in the Newsweek case, it was all over the web already, and the harm was done so to speak. Newsweek was confirming what was "common knowledge".

James

Canada has had some terrorism. I know if you search through tech republic you will find one of my posts which goes into greater detail but here is the short list:

1970 - A number of letter bombs escalates into 2 political kidnappings by the Federation du Liberation du Quebec. One of the kidnapping victims, the Quebec Cabinet minister for Labour, Pierre Laporte, is killed. Our equivalent of martial law was declared, soldiers were everywhere, people could be jailed without charge(and were).

1981 - 2 Turkish diplomats are killed in Ottawa by Armenian terrorists. The Turkish embassy is attacked. The security guard out front is killed. The ambassador jumps out of a second story window and is slightly injured. RCMP took over embassy security for most embassies, received sub machine guns and special training.

1985 - Sikh seperatists living in Canada plant a bomb on an Air India flight originating in Canada headed for Britain - the bomb explodes off Ireland killing over 300 people. Sadly the investigation was mishandled and the accused were let go.

So while we haven't had any 911 sized incidents, we haven't had zero exposure to terrorism either.

James

A few weeks/months ago I saw a doco on the local TV where the Black Americans of African descent are having lyposuction and then having the fat injected into their Butts so those donuts just make you look sexier. :)

Col ]:)

You said, "I may not support everything Bush has done, but I don't blame him for long term trends that evolved over many presidents".

Very well said, but consider this. President Bush certainly isn't continuing the trend that's been long established by many former presidents. You may or may not like his reasoning and/or his approach, but I believe you must admit that the "trend" has shifted from tolerating terrorism (since the established "trend" never did do anything to stop it), to what it is today. Do you agree or disagree? If you disagree, why? If you agree, what is the new trend, and is it better than the old and established trend?

(That was a great message, by the way.)

He tried to use Tomahawk missles to strike at Osama after the embassy bombings in Africa. If they had worked he would have been a hero. But he hit a bad target in Sudan and missed in Afghanistan. Not his direct fault for the miss, but the fault lies in his lack of follow up. If missles proved unworkable, then something else needed to be tried. Why didn't he freeze the assets, tighten the borders etc. I don't think Clinton tolerated it per se, but didn't pursue it as firmly and consistently as he needed to. But by that point in time, he was a little busy with impeachment.

I don't disagree with everything Bush has done, for sure. Tightening the border needed to happen. I agree with the invasion of Afghanistan - as did Canada, France and Germany by the way. Canada is again increasing our force in Afghanistan to free up US troops to be redployed elsewhere.

I don't totally buy into your big trend shift, though certainly both Bushes and Reagan were more activist with US forces (Panama, Grenada, Gulf War I) than Clinton.

I also think that one of the ways to undermine and destroy the effectiveness of the terrorists is to address some of the issues that cause discontent of muslims in the middle east in the first place. The US is seen as being too pro Israel(though I have noticed some flexibility here), the US did support middle eastern dictators (Shah of Iran, Saddam, Saudi and Kuwaiti families) over democracies. But none of the excuses terrorism -ever.

I do support the activist way the administration is going after Al Qaeda, and think that the other side, fixing root causes, needs to not be forgotten. It isn't easy. Old perceptions die hard.

James

I think it is an improvement although may be taken a bit too far to the extreme. I really think that the best way to minimize these activities is to cut of the supply of money which was something that has not been done previously.

I do know that the IRA had a major fund raising campaign running in the US and it was tolerated, over here they tried the same thing but other than for a few die hards they where just laughed out of the country by the general population.

Until we actually get their money supply stopped from at the very least our countries and here I do mean the Majority of the Western World things will just continue until they eventually work out in their tiny little minds that terror attacks simply do not work. The IRA and PLO have both finally work this out for themselves and mostly have pulled their heads in since that time. Sure there are still a few splinter groups that where too radical for these organizations still around but the majority have given up that tactic and are now trying different methods which eventually will probably work for them and they will get what they want though probably in a different form to what they expected.

Without the major influx of money from the West they will remain fairly low key and not that dangerous. That was the best thing to come out of the 9-11 incident while we have achieved a regime change in Afghanistan the place isn't that much safer and from the reports that I've been getting probably a bit more dangerous, Iraq is a long term thing that is going to take years to resolve and I just hope that a Administration Change in the US doesn't result in a early withdrawal so that country can descend back to anarchy. We just may have picked up a new Allie with the killing of the Egyptian Ambassador to Iraq which if it happens will be a great stride forward in the right direction as Egypt will drag quite a few other countries along with them if they where to join in.

If that happens we will have peace there much sooner that any of us expect and I do not see this as a bad thing.

But maybe it's just me but I see it as stupid allowing our money to pay for attacks upon ourselves. That would have been like Britain supplying money and equipment to the Germans to help invade Britain or the Americans supplying the Japanese the same to attack the Americans now that is just too silly to contemplate and why it has been allowed to continue unchecked is what I find confusing.

Col ]:)

It's not as bad as it sounds. My husband and I often call each other foul names as an expression of affection. Really.

She disagrees about that one. I know you did, didn't you when you where that age? ;)

Col ]:)

Yup :)

I've been on my own and responsible for paying bills since I was 19 years old. Which explains why I am the control freak that I am. Well, that, and I'm always right. :)

yeah, that's why I said "major attack".

Letter bombs here are occurant more frequently than you hear about. Thankfully, most are stopped and the offenders known and caught easily.

Terrorism is just a sad excuse for people to try and get attention and control through fear.

I know for one...if I were held captive by terrorists...would die quick because I'd do nothing they asked for including making statements they told me to do.

And if I ever got free and got one of their machine guns, God help them. I'd be like trichinosis inside their hideout's guts and take them down from the shadows like they do innocent people.

yeah, that's why I said "major attack".

Letter bombs here are occurant more frequently than you hear about. Thankfully, most are stopped and the offenders known and caught easily.

Terrorism is just a sad excuse for people to try and get attention and control through fear.

I know for one...if I were held captive by terrorists...would die quick because I'd do nothing they asked for including making statements they told me to do.

And if I ever got free and got one of their machine guns, God help them. I'd be like trichinosis inside their hideout's guts and take them down from the shadows like they do innocent people.

*EDIT* Smorty....this musta been a doozy to get 2 past your system!!!

I have worked since I was 11...and had my own bank account since before that.

I started paying my keep when I was young as well, because I maintained the house while Dad was away working for the government.

Always had to save up and pay mom and dad cash to get big items I wanted, like computer parts, stereos, etc.

Anyways...good for you, mae...it builds character...and will serve you well and your children, if you instill the same ethics in them.

I was thinking exactly the same thing but before my first one was even born. They start out bad and only get worse.

You know what they say Insanity is Heredity it's caused by your Kids! :^O

I'd actually be laughing if it wasn't so right
:( but I get even by insisting that I'm going to live long enough to be a bigger problem to my kids than they were to me. At first they didn't believe me now they are worried. :D

Col ]:)

I couldn't do that, no matter how well I knew my wife/girlfriend might know I was playing.

I couldn't look at a woman I love and say "stupid bitch" in any manner.

Call me neurotic or whatever. Just how I am.

To take it easy. Just WHAT THE HELL DO YOU THINK YOU AE DOING GETTING WORKED BY by fools?

Don't worry be happy those responsible will be caught in the end and really it could have been much worse this incident is totally amateur compared to what the IRA used to do.

Col ]:)

by jessie Jul 7, 2005

I'm normally a bloodthirsty wench anyway... doesn't take much to get me to want to help fanatic fools into their graves, and being 9 mos pregnant and hormonal just heightens the thirst. ]:)

by jaqui Jul 7, 2005

got a slowmatch?
I want to set off a 10 ton conventional bomb.. since it's visible from downtown.

a 10 ton ( at least ) pile of pure sulfer... with a hard crust from being watered down.

if it got hit with fire it would destroy a half mile radius..and damage 10 mile radius.

then after setting that one off go to the second pile 15 miles from the first and set it off.

maybe then the local dimwitted oficialdom would pay attention to the utter lack of security here.

where the 2010 winter olympics are scheduled to be.

I'm gonna take a 4 month holiday and get away from here at that time.

by jaqui Jul 7, 2005

a 1/4 stick stuffed in his nose / ears and set off should shake the blinders from his brain cavity.

you know he had 2 brain cells at one time, one got lost, the other got lonely and went looking for it.

by dmambo Jul 7, 2005

From a Reuters story:

"The Palestinian Islamist group Hamas, responsible for many suicide attacks on Israelis, condemned the London bombings."

To me this seems totally hypocritical. How can they feel that Israeli civilians are legitimate targets?? All terrorists are bast@rds.

by av . Jul 7, 2005

I don't understand how they can justify that killing Israelis is ok and not anyone else, but we are talking about lying, scum of the earth people.

Isn't Hamas trying to become a valid political party? Maybe that could have something to do with their change of heart.

Hamas just wants to kill Jews. So, when you kill any other race, creed, or color, you aren't doing it "right."

They aren't condemning the action, they are condemning the execution of it.

/dark humor

by jaqui Jul 7, 2005

that terrorists don't bother learning.
if the NAZI's couldn't bomb england into submition with thier entire war machine, how are acts of terrorism from a group with limited resources ( comparatively ) going to do it?

after having read all the posts, I'm glad to see that our british members are all ok.

by frenchwood Jul 7, 2005

I bow my head in respect of those that have lost their lives to this atrocity.

My heart goes out to all the friends & family that have lost someone close to them.

May The Lord guide you to your eternal resting place.

M - Nottingham - UK

by dr dij Jul 7, 2005

You can't trust those Limeys, Why ze don't eat ze snails! And ze believe in hard work, not ze govt run economy! And ze don't have a "student's union" that goes on strike so they're paid more for not working.

by gapaberlach Jul 7, 2005

Sorry Zarq but you are wrong on all counts, these idiots have been terroizing innocent people long before President Bush got out of college, and they will continue until they are irradicated like the vermin they are.

Have some sympathy man! 30 dead and you spew this rhetoric!??

As I said in my blog...their is not justice for those that did this, only instant death. I have no sympathy for those that will kill innocents!

by beads Jul 7, 2005

Civilians have always died in conflicts whether diliberately or indirectly. These people "think" they are fighting a war against 'Western values', Western civilization, whatever. To them all those bombs the US dropped in Iraq are no different from what they did today in London.

The REAL difference is that a bomb can go astray and kill innocent bystanders without direct intent. I know its a fine line but the only way to defeat this enemy is to understand there thinking first. Editing note: I know its been said many times, many ways in various different cultures, so I am not quoting any one source here.

As for the rats who hide in the sewers? Burn the sewers or sink the ships till they come out or die trying.

- beads

I just don't understand WHY someone can morph accidental killing in war into purposeful killing in peace time.

I am angered by the lack of humanity in the middle east and I think we need to treat the terrorist how they treat us...

Let's burn the sewers and see what comes out.

by jessie Jul 7, 2005

to have to call you a countryman of mine. Can I disown you site unseen?

by frenchwood Jul 7, 2005

Well said Bblack.

On behalf of the brits, thanks for your well wishes.

M - Nottingham UK

by jessie Jul 7, 2005

You're no fun at all. I've been known to call my hubby a f*cktart on occassion... among many other names. All with the UTMOST affection! ;)

by beads Jul 7, 2005

Why do they keep trying to violence to solve problems in the first place? As jck said, it hasn't worked before (terrorism). I see way its going to work now. Its like negotiating with a kidnapper.

- beads

We have, thank's very much, a blastproof film applied to the glass inside and out. I can assure you that I wouldn't have had my nose pressed against the windows this arvo if that hadn't been the case!

Neil :D

Don't blame anyone but the terrorists. The terrorists are the ones that decided to kill innocent people. The terrorists decided to kill others that are not in any way involved with Bush, Iraq, or Afghanistan.

Go crawl back under you rock sleeze.

by av . Jul 7, 2005

And they've always hated us long before Afghanistan, Iraq or Bush. We didn't ask for 9/11. Our world changed on that day and Bush responded with force. The correct response. True there were no WMDs found in Iraq, but there is no doubt in my mind that the world is a better place without Saddam and his demented sons.

Israel and Palestine were fighting long before Bush, you can't blame him for that.

We will never stop fighting terrorism until the terrorists are all dead or captured. If any country out there thinks they are exempt from terrorism, think again.

Terrorists are impotent cowards. They kill anyone that doesn't believe what they do. No one, anywhere is safe. Tomorrow you may be their new project. I would fight them to my last breath before I would change my life or give in to their demands.

Bush isn't my favorite President, but he has the correct response to the war on terror. Relentless, unyielding and full force. You can't bargain with terrorists and why would you want to. They are the devil's own.

Now there's some tagging for you!

Good thing you can't swear on TR I suppose.

I just posted a rant about how Americans were saying that in a hotel i was at. My GOD people need to get out more. I met some real nutters as far as not knowing what's just the street.

You should have heard the comments in the buffet room around the big screen TV this morning. Absolutely think as a plank!

I met a few people who couldn't cross th estreet befor efinding themselves on new unexplored ground, you should see it sometimes, it's pretty pathetic really.

Oh well, it takes all kinds. I refrained from slapping a women on that same issue this morning, but then again who's she to know, gawking at FOX and CNN broadcasts as if they were gospel. It not their fault they don't get exposure unless they are forunate enough to travel and see for themselves. You'd think people's homes had 60' concrete walls around them or something.

When I started posting my rants, I even started a new one about the US border, I was in a so so mood, I read some of these posts and I was in a worse mood, I watched some tube and became quite pissed off and unnerved at the flippancy behind some comments.

I read you post and I could picture your poor unsuspecting hubby coming home and giving the wiff a big hug as she glared at him and called him a F***wit.

I have had many relatioships where it is a battle to see who can spew the most verbal abuse while still caring.

It's hard to determine where the fun ends sometimes, as always I seem to take things too far though. Maybe a flag or a safe signal like S&M is needed or something? :p

THANK YOU, you always lighten my mood here. Smiling and chuckling to myself again. Kudos to you. :)

It's not GWB's fault this happened at all and I've seen some completely nasty comments from both sides of the coin here actually.

You DO remember me saying that England was a perfect target for a terrorist attck on the tube and that it was deemed more important at the time than the UK focusing on the Middle East. That sleeper sells were growing wildly in every country and that it was a much mroe imperative issue to be addressed than the Middle East.

I suppose it was inevitable and almost no level of secirity can REALLY pinpoint the time, but it was known in England for a long time that this was coming and the Tube was a key target, when the focus was being taken from AlQaeda.

These sects are proven to exist in America, Canada, and so many other countries too, that's why I as against the changed focus of the war on terrorism and even why some other countries have not jumped on the Iraq issue.

Horrible way to prove a point though.

It is nice to see that even though this is in a heavily Muslim pupulated area, that people reacted as one and there was apprently no malice toward the Muslim men and women as they all rushed to work together.

The last that I saw was that the British didn't know who was responsible, what was used and how it was done. That came from the Chief of Police in London and the head of the Transport Police.

The BBC did report a Web Site in Europe which was claiming responsibility but the Officials have discounted this as nothing more than some fools trying to big note themselves and claiming responsibility for something that they didn't do in an attempt to gain more converts.

At the very beginning the BBC was also reporting that the initial explosion was an electrical malfunction in a transformer as well and even the subsequent explosions where being reported as electrical problems caused by the first explosion mainly Transformers destroying themselves from being overloaded.

That was happening until the bus was blown up and then the reporters started changing their tune and where beginning to think that it just might be a terrorist attack.

At the Press interview which the BBC covered live not a single person there would even consider blaming a Muslim group for what had happened all they they where saying is that at this point in time we do not know and are investigating it. The press on the other hand where the ones pushing the Muslim Extremist and at every opportunity it was the people responsible for running the place who where refusing to even consider this as reality at this point in time. Of course they didn't rule it out but they did say that right now we don't know who is responsible and they did discount that European Web Site who was claiming responsibility.

What happened in London could have been done by one of the splinter groups left over from the IRA days and until we know who is responsible all this Muslim talk is nothing more than an attempt to incite racial hatred.

Col ]:)

For those who have lost I offer my deepest sympathies. ALL of us share your suffering and pain.

Today I went to the hotel's buffet for breakfast, many were crowded around the television and chattering quietly amongst themselves.

I cooked a waffle and made a cheese suffle(do it yourself buffet), grabbed the morning paper (Seattle Times) and overheard someone say, "yes, they bombed England."

It was the oddest thing, watching American TV, IN America. Sure it's the same channel I would watch at home, but being in a hotel, there were Japanese, US and several Canadian tourists, including my friends.

What a mixed reaction I saw, the Japanese men were very quiet and simply took interest in the report, the American guests were pretty much just freaking out, and the Canadians were just rolling their eyes and muttering 'Here we go again' Then we watched as the US threat meter went up like a thermometer and everyone ooh'd and ahh'd as they watched the TV like it was the messiah. I heard another guy say, "GREAT, a bigger threat for the land of the paranoid." His son(?) said, "Oh no. You can't crawl under a bad and hide in a hotel, What are we gonna do?!" I thought 'better get across the border soon '(It'll be tougher later).

It raised many different thoughts in my head, being a typical Brit, first I figured 'chin-up, mates'(They'll pick themselves up and prove themselves the better men as they have proven countless times in the past). Then I quickly started calling England to touch base and make sure everyone was okay. All was okay and spirits were actually quite high and nobody seemed too stunned or shocked, other than people close by or involved of course.

Then a lady said "There, now maybe people will understand. England's been terrorized too." People were acting like it was about time someone else was hit so people would be able to relate to the intensity of the issue.

I couldn't get my mind off two very similar incidents that happened when I've been in England myself, a train and Hyde park both bombed by the IRA.

The TV headlines stated, "Tony Blair, England now placed on the defense." UUUUUUuum, England has ALWAYS been on the defense.

Not to make light of the matter but I felt like telling the woman to give her head a shake, this has been happening to England for more years then her and I combined have seen and that now maybe SHE understands that others are terrorized too. (I would have loved to just bitch slap her)

A Bit rash though, even for me, or I was too hung over or something (Good concert, maybe a blog on that one).

When we were driving back to the Canada, we were pointing at all the MASSIVE US flags everywhere, I mean EVERYWHERE, every business, every mall, every...EVERYTHING! As we hit the border my other friend noticed the Canadian flag at half staff, then it dawned on us that in over 3 hours nobody in the US was flying flags at half staff. I thought back at the malls we had passed, Seattle city center, BOEING, all flags flying proudly. I can honestly say I was a bit disgusted really, I found it quite disrespectful, both of my friends mentioned it too.

We drove through Gilford area, where our BIGGEST flag is at a car dealership (one of those giant flags that are in all the US Mall parking lots) was also at half mast.

I know you aren't a British colony, you don't have any formal ties to the Queen of England or the people of England, you are a nation of it's own. I still found it really bad that all the flags were left flying high everywhere.

ANYHOW, I'm actually not here to bash America. This suspected sleeper cell has been KNOWN to be operating in the UK, just as there are similar sects in America today and in a suspected 60 countries. THIS is suspected to be the AlQueda (uprisings and offshoots) that spawned with a vengeance after/during the allied conflict in Afhganistan. THESE are the sleeper cells that everyone was complaining about when the focus was turned on Iraq. Others countries had more immediate issues they wanted to pay attention too, such as this. Whether related to AlQaeda or not, there were KNOWN terrorists that exist in many nations including both of ours. We need to focus on this further not by ridiulous border practices(that's another story, http://tinyurl.com/cp4w3 ).

I am merely saying, we all need to focus more at the issues within our countries for the REAL threats and not be so focused on potential, long term threats instead. We need to address these issues from the inside out, and that begins right on our own turf.

First of all, you say that you're not here to bash the US, but then you go ahead and bash the US. I know, I know. You're going to say that you're not bashing the US and that I'm blah blah blah. Call it bash; call it criticizing its people; call it whatever you want. But I call it typical Oz. Can't you just give it a rest, already?

My next point is this. I disagree with you to the Nth degree when you said, "....we all need to focus within our countries for the REAL threats....".

The best defense is a good offense. Read my previous messages, and I put it this way. We're mad as hell and we're not going to take it anymore. You may not admit it, but these terrorists have literally declared war on the entire free world, and it's tantamount to World War IV (WW III being the cold war and all the little off-shoots.) We should demand 100 percent elimination and/or 100 percent surrender, and we should settle for no less. And we should go wherever it takes us to defeat it.

You may be content to hide in your home, try to defend yourself (and yourself only) against it, and wait for them to bring it to you. But I'm not.

"One ought never to turn one's back on a threatened danger and try to run away from it. If you do that, you will double the danger. But if you meet it promptly and without flinching, you will reduce the danger by half. Never run away from anything. Never!"

"Victory at all costs, victory in spite of all terror, victory however long and hard the road may be; for without victory, there is no survival."

"The great defense against the air menace is to attack the enemy's aircraft as near as possible to their original point of departure."

- Sir Winston Churchill

This is a friggin war, Oz. We (the world) have been on the defensive for forty years. Mr. Churchill, Mr. Bush and I are all in agreement. We need to take it to them and persevere until final victory is realized. And "never give up".

Talk about missing a point. Fighting from the INSIDE OUT is what I am talking about. Not hiding out and hoping it doesn't happen. This are YOUR words of pure fabrication and NOT a comment I have made at all.

Your losing your touch I think.

As for not baching America, no I DIDN'T come here to bash America at all. But I certainly can't dismiss the anal rections I saw this morning and th edisgust I had by seeing the disrespect from Americans towards an ally that DOES support th ewar on terrorism and fights beside your troops daily. I am SURE your troops in Iraq, don't feel that way when their lives are saved or when they are supported in their efforts.

So lets say for instance we ALL go to the middle east and we wipe out every person on the soil and turn it into a void. YOU ARE STILL DESTINED TO BE TERRORIZED!!! These people are IN America, IN England, IN Canada, IN Australia, IN Jamaica and just about every other corner of the map.

Your suggestion is what then? To kill every muslim on Earth, just in case they get some ideas?
Nobody mentioned sitting back and ignoring it, they DID suggest tackling it on your own soil first, BEFORE rushing off to Iraq to topple Saddam's regime, liberate Iraqi's, protect yourselves from WMD or whatever the spin is this week.

Fighting them on their own turf will not stop those who are on YOUR turf from retaliating against what you have done on THEIRS.

Intelligence is a powerful thing, it is the steeping stone to 'understanding the enemy.'

They KNEW this was going to happen on the London Tube, they were prepared and well rehearsed for it epsecially after studying and learning from the efforts of New Yorks rescue crews after 9/11.

They could have NUKED Iraq, flattened it to nothing, EALIMINATED the entire middle east, it still would probably NOT have prevented this, nor will it prevent cells IN America from doing the same. So how does goiung elsewhere and claiming war, when the war is inside your own country already possibly make any sense.

They are assumed to be retaliating for what has happened in Afghanistan and the leaders of AlQaeda, before the focus was changed to Iraq.

These wars must be fought on many fronts, yet everyone seems to STILL believe that invading Iraq is an important FIRST step in ending terrorism.

How about the last, first step that was left hanging mid-stride?

Go blow up they enemy, I will be back here offering my condolences for the terroism in America again I'm sure.

And you of everyone should have known I reported these problames several years ago,yet the invasion was the most omportant step to everyone at that time. ooooops.

WHen Hitler invaded Western Europe th focus wasn't placed on invading Russia or even Germany, it was placed on removing troops from other countries, PUSHING the threat from when they had rooted to where they began. Come to think of it, that's how all wars are supposed to be fought.

How do you emliminate an enemy when you don't even know where to fight him? Intelligence, this is 2005, once the enemy is understood and tracked, it can be addressed, short of that, all you have is mindless killing with no direction or end in sight.

As for your personal attacks, I thought you claimed you were of higher intelligence?

What would you do if you had ten brothers who were being terrorized and killed by a gang of thugs, one at a time. Would you all hunker down in your own homes and take measures to defend against them? No, you wouldn't. All of the brothers would join forces and go to the thugs -- take the fight to them. And you know it.

This is no different. The freedom loving brothers of the world need to join forces once and for all, and put an end to it. No more talking. No more defense only. No more excuses. No nothing -- except total victory.

What a complete crock of a ridiculous assumption that is, a complete farce that can't even be considered a relevant comment really.

PLEASE, Maxwell, post a link to the comment where I suggest anyone hunkering down and not defending themself?

In fact thats the whole point, you are NOT taking care of the issues under your nose. Killing THOSE guys doesn't stop THESE guys.

TO place a little relevance on YOUR analogy. Lets say some of those gangs were in MY house, some were in YOUR house and some were in BOB's house, but they were all related to gangs in John's house. How will blowing up John's house stop ths ein MY house and BOB's house form not continuing?

I would actually take care of the ones in MY house first, then BOB's house and finally go to their related gang's turf and face them there.

YOU ALWAYS WORK FROM INSIDE OUT.

And no that has NOTHING to do with hiding and hoping it won't happen to me.

Once again Max, validate your comments before laying on the BS. WHat a steaming pile THAT post was. You used to be somewhat good at making a point without fabricating implications that didn't exist.

I suppose you missed a comment I had made today in another post, "I have to say the people we met from all over the US and the event staff were nothing but fantastic and very welcoming to us all, thank you for your hospitality."

Yeah I sure bash Americans! Actually I am very spcific about who I am addressing, you just have the disillusion that AN American means American or all Americans. But that's common for SOME Americans. We saw a whole buch of Maxwell's on th eihghway today, very entertaining to see how they adorn their vehicles to display their pride on their sleeve, amongst other Americans. He who waves the biggest flag wins or something?

by jaqui Jul 8, 2005

that flag was at the time it was made, the largest free flying flag on the planet.
and it was on the expo86 site in downtown vancouver. :)

okay as far as the terrorists go, nuke the planet into a glass ball, kill em all!!!!
anything less and you are only adding fuel to the fire of hatered in the terrorists.

either kill all live, or use thier religion to punish them.
amputate right arm and hand, burn the stump / shoulder so no prosthesis possible.
drop them off in thier country of origin and leave them alone.
( for the islamic terrorists )

that will quickly end all thought of becoming a terrorist for islamic beleivers. and I actually send a letter to the white house right after 9-11 saying this to the shrub.

Get stuck in.

I really liked the wench part as I often call She Who Must Be Obeyed that when she more cheeky than usual and she just laughs. But the funnest one was many years ago when I was putting a Ducati away she offered to help push it in so I didn't need to start it up . Well I was pushing and thinking it should be moving faster than this so I looked around only to see SHMBO walking the other way so I swung my leg over the bike and was going to run it in on the started motor just as she bent down to push the thing. My riding boot caught her just below the left eye and she had a beautiful shiner from it. But the next day after seeing the Head teacher from the kids school we went into the city and she being her usual self was mucking up no end so out of desperation I turned to her and said "10 Steps behind wench or I'll give you another one!" And I wasn't talking about the Black Eye but a little old lady overheard and attacked me with her handbag & umbrella calling me a beast and wife basher and so on I just covered up my head and burst out laughing I couldn't help myself which only made to poor old dear madder and she continued attacking. Eventually a Cop turned up and dragged her off me and when I looked at SHMBO she had tears running down her face from laughing. Then the Cop wanted to know if I wanted the old dear charged with assault which of course I didn't but it took ages for me to catch my breath from laughing so hard and SHMBO took even longer as she had to sit down from laughing so hard particularly as the old dear now under restraint was caring on about wife beating and so on. She really wanted to kill me but I suppose that was her life and she couldn't understand that I didn't mean what she thought I meant. :D

Col ]:)

I suppose we'll have to allow the POM's to think that they just might have a chance of winning the cricket now. :(

Then crush them into the ground again. :D

Col ]:)

Neil sitting there chewing up his toilet paper roll and staring at his wheel in envy. "If ONLY I could risk having a run on it..."

Venture out for some nibbles it's the middle of the night there now, then get some sleep!

The baby will sleep the night away without waking up. :)

And when it wakes up with the hangover it will be having a "Hair of the Dog" long before the mother can even begin to comprehend the pain in her head. It should keep the Baby Permanently Drunk with the added advantage that when it grows up it will have an aversion to Alcohol.

Only good points there. :D

Col ]:)

YEs, it's TR's chat room where we discuss "Miscellaneous" topics of interest.

The real pin head has already shown his point, now make a hat to fit it you fool.

The IRA issue has been resolved, for the most part, peacfully after years of war. Hmmmm, perhaps a lesson to be learned there. Figuring you are around a grade 3 mmentality, you ever punch a grade 4 kid in the face and not have them fight back?

Your understanding, unlike your president's is so misinformed and clueless it is laughable. THIS specific incident has been expected, planned and prepared for for years now. This isn't some terrorists who FLEW in from Iraq to terrorize England. These KNOWN sleeper cells have existed and grown in the UK AND THE UNITED STATES, as well as an estimated 60 other countries for the years since the last war in Afghanistan.

You are stupid enough to believe that attacking Iraq would help resolve this? You moron!

THIS is exactly WHY Britain was not willing to involve themselves too deeply with Iraq to begin with, they KNEW this was coming and tried to focus on determining the INTERNAL threat that no war over seas would ever have he slightest HOPE to resolve. In fact that war overseas is what has fuelled these sects to start in the name of AlQaeda.

Britain and others were involved deeply with the conflict in Afghanistan and avenging the terrorism on YOUR country. THEIR people died for YOU already your stupid, heartless, retard!

British special forces have been at your side through the entire war on terrorism you stupid f**k.

YOUR mentality is what gets Americans killed, you disgust me you pig headed moron, go and stifle in your own stool you ignorant wiper of other peoples bottoms.

They are politician's what else can you expect? To them the whole thing is a big game where the rules are "There are no rules!" Anything is fair prey and they all take advantage of it.

More to the point since the Egyptian Ambassador to Iraq seems to have been murdered I wonder just how those in power in Egypt will react.

Col ]:)

As to how the POM's will react. Right at this point in time we really do not know and until we do no battle plans can be drawn up to stop this particular group.

Personally knowing the Brits if anything this is more likely to PI## them off and just make them mad so I wouldn't want to be in their way when they eventually work out what's happened. But of course me being an Aussie I'm probably even more pig headed so I'd probably side with them unless it comes to sport and then it's every country for themselves but We are going to beat the POM's at cricket this time round. After all we can not allow them false hope it will only hurt them more when they loose again. :^O

Col ]:)

The Frogs have some great wines over there and I would work at destroying each and every one by drinking them all. It might take a bit of time to get through but I'm willing to make that sacrifice. :)

And Gadget I can just imagine what was becoming stiff or erect on you standing out in the cold and rain for that length of time and I know it wasn't your upper lip. :^O

Col ]:)

by gadgetgirl Jul 8, 2005

dammit, Col, you had that web cam on again, didn't you?! ;)

by hal 9000 Jul 8, 2005

You forgot to turn off your Web Cam and it was here on TR for all to see. :^O

Col ]:)

Now you finally understand GWB is responsible for everything. :D

While we can not blame him for the Boxing Day events or maybe even what's happened in Lyndon over night we can at least blame him for running down his Body Guard when he went for a bicycle ride in Scotland. I'm just wondering what that poor guy did wrong to deserve that treatment. :^O

Col ]:)

It's truly bizarre for people to object to a war against terrorism that has resulted in the liberation of severely oppressed people in both Afghanistan and Iraq. And I disputed the notion, as many have suggested, that Britain and the United States have somehow brought this upon themselves in any way whatsoever.

Oz, we face a war of a different nature than anything before, and we should do whatever is necessary to defend our way of life. Iraq was a threat, and it was genuinely believed that those stockpiles of weapons were there. I think that most people did, and that's why the whole international community came together and passed the United Nations resolution as it did. We don't know what's happened to them. They could have been removed; they could have been hidden; they could have been destroyed. But Saddam was a threat, not only to his region, but to the entire world, and the world is a safer place without him.

Now is not the time for the international community to divide or disagree, but to come together. And this conflict now taking place in Iraq is vital in determining the future of global terrorism. If we succeed in Iraq, and if the Iraqi people succeed in their struggle for freedom, global terrorism will be delivered a huge defeat. This is a time to show strength and determination and complete resolve. This terrorism is the 21st century threat. It is a war that strikes at the heart of all we hold dear

Hope you were sitting down,sorry for springing that on you unwarned.

Anyhow, you are right, Iraq is a PIECE of the puzzle.

These cells were identified and completely ignored by anyone I had spoken to here, it was Iraq Iraq Iraq ia the target! He's gonna kills us. THen right from inside England (supposedly)AlQaeda rears it's ugly head to remind people they are still around, except not THERE but HERE, in our backyards.

When I mentioned this in defense to everyone's screams about how nobody was behind Iraq, I was told how it was irrelevant and that the REAL threat was Iraq. BOLDLY AND STRAIGHT UP.

I suggested before, getting a better understanding of what was happening IN our nations since AlQaeda were taken ut in Afghanistan is the beginning of attacking our enemies and better understanding them. Which we really do not, and I know you agree with that.All we know is terrorists are bad and must be stopped, wherever they are.

Well if they are in OUR backyard, regardless of what Saddam is doing in Iraq, we need to rid our OWN countries of AlQaeda. You know I have ALWAYS agreed that Saddam NEEDED to be disarmed, they needed liberation and they needed a domcratoc CHANCE anyway.

But first and foremost, lets at least protect ourselves from the terrorism that breeds within our own borders. THEN we can think about straightening out th emiddle east and they would have a weaker hold internally on our nations.

It is an issue of timing and correct order with me, you know that, I don' tthink Iraq was justified at THAT time and for THOSE reasons when terror was growing right next door.

Sadly enough, MAYBE this will help people (our countries citizens) change their focus and place it toward more immediate issues that ARE effecting us, instead of those thay MAY or COULD effect us.

We can get to that once we secure our OWN countries.

Of course to be fair, IF it is determined they were a cell from another country, then by all means go right ahead and kick the door in and have them stand and be counted (or shot).

I have NO problem taking care of business, but with a security and a bit of a legal background, you have to be 150% CERTAIN you have the right people and no just those who resemble those people.

Actually, I thought you would disagree with them. And I would have, at that time (just like I am now), revealed that they are Tony Blair's words, not mine. I do agree with them myself, however, but I also agree (unlike you) with the actions Mr. Blair took as a result of his convictions to those words.

You make it sound as though, because we took the actions in Iraq when we did and how we did it, our internal homeland security is being ignored. I know for a fact that that's a silly and false assertion. One could certainly surmise that since there has not been another such attack in the USA during the last four years, that our dual efforts have indeed been successful. Yea, they got one through in London, but that still doesn't mean that we can't walk and chew gum at the same time. I totally dismiss the notion that we can't do both.

And I'm certainly glad that you are not in charge of the war on terrorism. (And I'm glad that I'm not in charge either, by the way.)

by mustafa99 Jul 7, 2005

Hello pal,this is not bad only is savage is brutal, whoever did this massacre has to go deep and face the justice, becouse imagine a father or mather, innocent people that is not only bad that is murder,and genocide

by Member 25348569 Jul 8, 2005

Intentionally left blank

While I most certainly agree with your sentiment.

THey don't eed to burn the sewers, they have known of several groups forming AlQaeda offshoots right in London for several years now. They were actually chronicled near the end of the Afghanistan war and just pre-Iraq. Th eissue was a plea for people to see the harm and terror that has been growing in over 60 countries, including England and the USA of course.

These people were filmed IN LONDON, buring the Union Jack and Stars & Stripes, it was said that they were rebuildng bigger, wider and stronger than the AlQaeda previously had that had claiming to have conducted the 9/11 attack. They were forming to retaliate against the capture and deaths of their fathers and allies in AlQaeda.

They have been tracked all over the globe, in Bosnia they actually recruit in public schools and libraries, they are not the enemy as they have rebuilt bombed out Bosnia and built mosques, gardens etc/ as well as bringing some wealth into such a downtrodden life for others.

In Africa (I believe it was Africa) they had reportedly been aquiring recruits by offerin gto PAY the families of poor young men and give them better lives. Very modern recruiting for such a group actually, said to be a first.

So they have KNOWN about this all along, even TB KNEW they would attack teh London Tube, when and how of course was a mystery. BEcause of this, the rescue crews were brilliant. They learned a few things from the US rescue and techniques to hande the evacuation of civilians and care for the injured. For a TERRIBLE act of cowardice, so few were actually killed (I know it's hard to say it's few even if it was one). But the reailty is, I think Londons emergency crews and police have handled this is top form.

It is such a HEAVILY Muslim populated area though, but after the incident, Muslims and Christian Brits worked side by side without hesitation to offer help as they could and with no apprent disdain for their racial or religious differences, also very applaudable. They understand that Muslims are everywhere and it's not Muslims that have done this, it's terrorism.

Perhaps a lesson learned from teh Irish, for so many years they were at war with some Irish terrorists as well as being at peace with some Irish too. I guess they have learned ot not judge abook by it's cover.

But it is next to impossible to try and predict or thwart such an act in a diverse community of valid, contributing citizens as well as terrorists.

The brits will simply brish themselves off and keep on going in an attempt to identify and bring these men to justice (even if shotgun justice). It's really just the way they are, these thing are generally kept quite quiet in public and merely quick aside comments made, it's just the way Brits are. PRoud and unfettered I suppose, especially since it's happened so MANY times before.

But the problem is, you can't kill all the muslims in your town or in teh middle east and actually expect this to end. They ae EVERYWHERE, good and bad of course and next to impossible to trace movements as they have rown so broadly and in so many different cells.

What a pickle! But hats off to all who have/are enduring the pain and suffering from this most heinous action of pure cowardice. My hats also off to the emergency reposnse teams and citizens who have helped immensely. It's nice to know that the folks at home are being looked after, I certanly hope TB can continue his work with other governments in an effort to find and reduce these sects all over the world and do so without wiping out an entire population of a country in the meantime.

My their gods help them through this horror and see them safe and healthy as they overcome the pain and loss.

(They'll just put the kettle on or go to the local for a few pints, then carry on for the most part I'm sure, it's really just a British way of dealing with it after all these years).

I think entirely appropriate!

Don't waste good MPHG references on the likes of him!

by Member 25348569 Jul 8, 2005

The city is very quiet. Most offices are shut for today with normal opening set for Monday.

All of the trains except those into King's Cross - that's one station out of seven main lines - and a lot of the buses are running normally. The suburban part of the Tube is back up with a shuttle service to the edge of the central zone. A few roads are stil closed around Tavistock Square while the forensic guys continue to comb for clues.

By Monday, we'll nearly be back to normal - at least for those of us who choose not to be frightened by the prospect of more bombs.

I'm proud of my countrymen and even, for once, of the politicians that we have. Tony Blair made a good speech but the best one came from Ken Livingstone, London's Mayor, speaking from Singapore.

"It was not aimed at presidents or prime ministers. It was aimed at ordinary working-class Londoners, black and white, Muslim and Christian, Hindu and Jew, young and old. Indiscriminate slaughter irrespective of any consideration for age, class, religion, whatever. That isn't an ideology. It isn't even a perverted faith. It is just an indiscriminate attempt at mass murder.

I can show you why you will fail. In the days that follow, look at our airports, look at our seaports and look at our railway stations and even after your cowardly attacks you will see that people from the rest of Britain, people from around the world will arrive in London to become Londoners and fulfil their dreams and achieve their potential.

Nothing you do, however many of us you kill, will stop that life. Where freedom is strong and people can live in harmony, whatever you do, however many you kill, you will fail."

by gadgetgirl Jul 8, 2005

It's the way we're built.

Latest news projects over 50 but under 100 who will have lost their lives. Current "walking wounded" (that's what they really are) are 700+.
Unfortunately, there's still no news on the bodies which are still in the Tube.

Heros were swarming out of the woodwork yesterday - the doctors at the British Medical Association, who came out of meetings and began treatment on the pavements, the builders working on a site next to a hospital, who immediately downed tools and went to give blood, the Red Cross voluntary worker who calmly left work and began applying dressings to the wounded, and the ordinary people who took time to pass on messages for those without service when the systems overloaded.

But, then there are the technical hiccups. Like the Crisis Line. Hospitals and police were telling those people who were looking for lost relatives/friends to ring that line. It was greatly overwhelmed. Some reports state it took up to 6 hours to get through. Despite being on breakfast television, one girl has still not had a call back from the Crisis Line, not even to tell her that they have no news. (Phone records show he was in the area of the bus one minute before the bomb)

But the best one of the lot - exsqueeze my sarcasm, here - has to be some of the London hotels. The smarmy lot of bar stewards put their prices up. And not just for Joe Public. Pre-arranged (emergency) accommodation had been priced for the Police Service at ?65.00 per night, but last night they were charged ?150.00. Other hotels who normally charge ?60.00 were charging ?270.00 What really gets me is that they were so fast with this one - reports on Lastminute.com warned people of the price rises by 2pm yesterday afternoon. Talk about taking advantage! Hey, don't get me wrong, I'm all for the free market economy, but surely this is a moral issue as well!

Needless to say, the calls for the hotels which took advantage of the bombing like this are loud and getting louder. The general consensus is that they should be named, shamed and blacklisted. I wholeheartedly agree.

Thanks to all posters on this discussion, though, I have a wonderful, warm fuzzy feeling being a Brit, and reading through all the posts where your support shines through unwaveringly. I may not be a Londoner, but I'm sure you'll all understand the effects of the bombing on all of us outside the City.

Heartfelt thanks, guys. You're a good lot.

Lovenhugs

I believe that people show their true character in times of crisis, at least that's when it may shine the brightest. What I read from you is not too unlike the feelings I had after 9-11. The difference between then and now, however, is that I still consider those people (Bush, Giuliani, and my fellow countrymen) the same people of the same fine character, while time has diluted the opinions of others. People of such character don't change, only other peoples' opinions of them -- for whatever reasons. I'm glad you have such people and can see them for what they really are. And I hope your future opinions aren't diluted by others whose views may become clouded.

Several news organizations around here have played Mr. Livingstone's speech, and I've heard it several times. It reminded me of another fine Brit of the highest character, Winston Churchill.

All my best, Neil. My thoughts are with you guys.

by Member 25348569 Jul 8, 2005

On Tony Blair. Unlike a lot of my countrymen, I have always reckoned that TB was sincere in what he did and does. I disagreed with Iraq - as you know - but I accepted that he believed that he was right. He has not disgraced himself over the last couple of days and in his case I see no reason to change my views now or in the future.

Ken, I have always regarded as a little self-serving. He was kicked out of the Labour party, won the mayorial election as an independent and was accepted back into the party and won another term. I suppose that he annoys me because he just seems to cost me money for things that I didn't ask for. $14 to drive in my own city for a day!

In addition, he was the first to engage in dialogue with the IRA and that got him into trouble as an appeaser of terrorism. History showed that he was a little premature but probably right. His demeanour and words following yesterday's bombings showed his real feelings - they were obviously not faked - and have changed my feelings towards him for the better. We'll see if he keeps it up.

Neil

by levannah44 Jul 8, 2005

If this bombing is put down to Al Quaeda, it's highly unlikely to have anything to do with the Olympics! What would AQ care about the Olympics, one way or the other?

It's everything to do with the G8 meeting at Gleneagles at the moment, as well as their own agenda, which we all know about. If Paris had got the Games, the bombs could have gone off there just as easily. France is, after all, just as much a member of the G8 as Britain.

by maecuff Jul 8, 2005

Glad I could bring a smile to your face, you f*ckwit. Have a good weekend!

by jck Jul 8, 2005

I saw on the news this morning that London is probably the most camera-equipped city in the world.

Hence, they probably have video of whomever put the devices on the buses and in the Tube.

Scotland Yard...work your magic...and nail these bastards.

I'm tellin ya...don't hang em...as Muslims, make them eat pork soup. Then they don't get the virgins when they die.

And BTW...I want Tony Blair for the next US President :)

by jck Jul 8, 2005

I just said I couldn't do it.

I'd be most likely to look at my wife if she called me something and just tell her I love her.

It's just how I am.

And trust me, I'm more fun than anyone can imagine...especially with someone I love.

Can you say...dressing room of Victoria's Secret at Christmas time? ]:)

Ho.....Ho.....Ho.....

by maecuff Jul 8, 2005

She is in love with Toledo. She said she never wants to leave. I'm so glad that she's having fun. It's so great to hear her excited about something. Since she entered her teens, she's been 'too cool' to show much excitement about anything. Her dad and I rested easier last night.

by tomsal Jul 8, 2005

I'm an American, I've never been across the pond to Europe/UK at all...but even I know that they endured long hellish, terror filled decades. I don't blame people for flaming at you for this, they are right.

Yes what happened on 9/11 was tragic and it made me mad, angry, hurt, upset.. But to be an American and make such silly comments as to imply other countries didn't no terrorism before....that's just dumb.

Let me tell you something we should count our blessings here...the USA is largely the new kid on the block (read: NOOB) when it comes to being victims of terrorism, as compared to many other countries history (yes including England's).

Ok I'm done.

by gadgetgirl Jul 8, 2005

choice of replies....

1. So you all saw my best assets?

2. You all know I need a man with large hands??

3. I wasn't cold, I was just giving directions???

Take your ..... pick ..... ;\

I've never had any exposure to Mr. Livingstone until yesterday, so I don't really know the first thing about him. However, I can usually recognize passion and sincerity from a person, and what I heard yesterday from Mr. Livingstone seemed to be dripping with it.

I've always liked Mr. Blair, as he seems to be a person of convictions, even if it means taking political heat as a result. You may or may not agree with what he does (or has done), but I believe it's all based on convictions rather than political expediency. I see the same thing in President Bush, especially as it relates to the war on terrorism, and I've often mentioned that such behavior is the primary criteria to be seen as a worthy example to be included in President Kennedy's Profiles in Courage group.

Moreover, I think that people like Oz and others (and you, I suppose) are dead wrong in your opposition to the action taken in Iraq, exactly as it was carried out, and when it was carried out. And I still think it's a damn shame that our Canadian friends have been so vocally opposed to what many people consider the absolute right thing to do. Without the benefit of hind-sight, and considering the conditions that existed on September 12, 2001, the removal of Saddam Hussein from power was an obvious and vital step in what was to become a years-long war on terrorism.

I believe it was an absolutely brilliant strategy, not only to eliminate a grave and potential threat to mankind (and no one in power ever said or implied that the threat was imminent. Those "words" were put in the president's mouth by his political opponents.), and not only to apply extreme pressure on the Saudis to get them to capitulate to the war on terrorism efforts, and not only to show the region (and the world) that we were absolutely serious about removing regimes that sponsored or supported terrorism to any degree whatsoever, and not only to create the battleground of our choosing on which to fight the influx of terrorists, but to also plant the seeds of freedom and democracy that is absolutely vital in the long-term goal to address and change the circumstances under which the hatred of freedom loving "westerners" is bread.

These opponents often say that the world is better off without Saddam in power, but if they had their way, he'd still be in power, I suppose. They often say that it was the right thing to do, but the wrong time to do it. They never offer a more viable timetable, however, as an alternative. Moreover, personally speaking, I believe we waited TOO LONG, as it gave Saddam and his cronies sufficient time to dispose of, hide, or export the WMDs that the entire world knew existed. And the opponents often say that it was a necessary step, but not necessarily the second step in the fight against terrorism. But they never offer an alternative second step, at least not one with rational and factual reasoning.

It was absolutely brilliant; and it was absolutely necessary. And I'm amazed at the people who nit-pick the little details, using the benefit of hind-sight, as their justification to second guess people who know a heck of a lot more than they do. I would certainly trust Tony Blair's actions to ensure my security much more that I would trust our Canadian friend's lack of actions.

I think history will not only be kind, but will hold Mr. Blair in the highest esteem in regards to his courage, not only in the face of terrorism, but in the face of extreme political opposition to his efforts to combat it. And I believe that history will treat President Bush in a similar manner. Mr. Blair and Mr. Bush, in my estimation, are just as good a team as Mr. Roosevelt and Mr. Churchill. And after all, history treats those two men much kinder than their political opponents of their day. And in many respects, their convictions to the mission at hand is not too unlike the mission of 65 years ago -- defend freedom at all costs.

by fractalzoom Jul 8, 2005

"Bush understands?" I realize that there are those in the US who walk around believing that GWB is a wise and sagacious leader, but it still jars me to see somebody actually putting those words in print.

Dubya himself doesn't understand anything more complex than hammers and nails. He's certainly not equipped to comprehend things as subtle and complex as world politics or cultural interactions. His ignorance of historical lessons and precedents causes him to blunder into ham-fisted misadventures that ultimately subvert the very values he claims to defend.
His hyper-simplistic, binary, "us-good-them-bad" world view makes for policies that actually result in US interests being more at risk in the world. It works to Dubya's benefit that this rudimentary world view appeals to those in the USA who wish that things were really so -- it's an exercise in Orwellian groupthink.

I love my country, but I fear those leading its government.

...his own words.

Agree or disagree with President Bush's actions and/or policies, but anyone who simply dismisses him as such a bumbling idiot is obviously so misinformed and ignorant, that they simply cannot be taken seriously.

"I realize that there are those in the US who walk around believing that GWB is a"....... total idiot......."but it still jars me to see somebody actually putting those words in print."

Heed your own words, dude. Heed your own words. People like you are dismissed just as easily as the one you dismissed for doing, in essence, exactly the same thing.