USB 2.0 a Goner????

http://tinyurl.com/1zi2

Some of the products that are available from China. :p

Col

I've fought this "unrecognized device" problem off and on for a while now on my home XP Media Center edition box. I have a USB printer, scanner, webcam, mouse, digital camera, card readers, and several PNY flash drives all of which worked fine until sometime late in the fall. I thought the original problem involved the PNY drives, but it was not consistently an issue with them. The latest problem was with the scanner. I've searched the net for answers, found lots of speculation, tried uninstalling and re-installing drivers, hacked the registry base on a KB article from HP, and today, everything is working again. However, I've repeated this cycle at least 10 times in the last few months. Sorry I don't have an answer, but I can confirm the problem. BTW, all of my USB hubs are internally installed and powered, not that I think it is relevant.

I do not think desktop support personel are deserving of the title admin...Perhaps in smaller companies where people are required to perform multiple jobs? But in large companies, security is decided by one group, testing of patches by another, some layers of project management are stuffed in for good measure, then some person in the desktop area writes a quick script and bam, the patch is deployed everywhere all at once with no backout plan. Or worse, the MS update software is configured to stuff the patch out to all PCs immeadiately without a backout plan. Not much "admin" work there.

That said, none of my users have reported any problem with USB devices after the latest Microsoft patches. All patches are investigated to see if they apply, then a back-out plan is devised. Patches are tested before a roll-out, then the roll-out is done in phases to prevent system-wide problems TYO apparetly reported. I might have missed it, but nobody has mentioned the specific patch(es) that caused the problem in the first place. So it looks to me that the question should be about USB devices stopped working on XP2 machines.

TYO is going through all the patches one-by-one, which should reveal the specific patch that caused the problem if indeed one exists. Perhaps it is a hardware configuration, perhaps a vendor's implementation of the USB spec is slightly off, and the patch broke it. Perhps some mal-ware on the network has infected the machines. No mention of any these other leads, so I would start there. Investigation is 90% of an admin's job. As to the specific fix, make sure you BIOS is updated, and the correct drivers are used for the USB. Also, USB hubs are like US$30. That is a lot cheaper than having an employee spend days reasearching and other employees frustrated and working with lower productivity. Once solved, use this opportunity to improve all your processes including patch management, testing, backouts, and disaster recoveries.

Ignoring the off-topic remarks will not make them go-away (until TR institutes an ignore feature) The O/S of choice is not really relevant, in the end they all do the same thing; provide a layer for software to interact with the hardware. Some are better at some things than others. (Try building your own once. You will gain new respect for what they do.) To remain viable, O/S creators are always adding features and technologies to get ahead of the competition. However, any true inovation is soon replicated in future releases of competing products, thus leveling the playing field again. Anyone still using Amiga?

It works fine in one PC but not in another so that is MS's fault?

How about investigating the differences between the two PC's such as installed software, drivers, updates/patches, motherboards, installed hardware, etc.

Those same issues don't exist with all OS's?

You missed my joke by the way. That was indeed a real IP. Too bad it was my home IP that is also a dynamic IP which was changed almost immediately.

No system is truly ever secure. To that we agree. However, I am not paranoid.

Like all things business, there are risks. But just like trying to cure the common cold, it will never happen.

However, you can substantially lower your risks to the point of any exposure is a risk of being in business.

No system is completely secure. But Windows systems can be made as secure as any other OS by a competent professional.

We ran into what sounds like the same problem here on three computers. Try rolling back all recent updates but no joy. Reimaged one and it worked again so then tried applying all the updates and it still kept working. Did the same on the other two and now had two working and one not working on the front panel ports. Some further digging showed that on that one, the USB root hub was showing as unistalled when I did the show missing devices/show hidden devices routine. Went into the BIOS, disabled all USB devices, restart, enable all USB devices, re-installed the driver and started working again.

Now if I could figure out why only 3 computers out of 500 had their USB connectivity broken, I'd be a lot happier though finding out that others are having issues is almost as good. Misery does love company.

I almost forgot about MCA. When I was in desktop support, I remembered so many people who bought an IBM PS2 machine. They were so popular and IBM said they were great. When Windows 95 came around, people wanted to upgrade them. Sound cards in particular seemed to be the main thing. Unfortunately, you could not find any parts anywhere that were compatible. ISA cards looked like they might fit, but in the end, people just destroyed their cards and the slot.

I was working at a retail store at the time, and it was hard to tell these customers that spent a lot on these computers that they were better off to buy a new machine instead of looking for parts that were next to impossible (if not impossible) to find. So many people mad and coming up with conspiracy theories. It is just the nature of the market.

As for USB going away? It will. When? I am not sure. I do know that everything has a life span (except for IBM zseries they seem to keep going and going). New products are always a slight improvement from the technology they replaced. Eventually, the market is saturated, and a new type of product that is "superior" and incompatible with the previous item are introduced. 78|45|33, 8-track, cassette, CD, SuperbitCD, DVD, BluRay|HD-DVD is just one progression. It is called planned obsolescence.

Any company that is going to stay in business needs to make their previous products less valuable than the current ones. Which is one neat thing about open-souce people forget. The new versions make the previous versions only slightly less valuable, not worthless like closed-source products need to do to maintain their sales figures. Apple is the worst, charging for every O/S upgrade every year 10, 10.1, 10.2, 10.3, 10.4, etc. MS is not much better Windows 95, 98, 98Se, and Me are not significantly different, but at least the upgrades are generally years apart. And you must be at the latest two levels to get any support. Not a nice business model, but it is an accepted business model in the software industry.

In my opinion, you can complain about a problem, or you can work to fix the problem. If you belive the problem is with MS and their products, then you must research and consider other options. Otherwise just accept what they throw at you. On the flip side, switching to Linux is not trivial. It is taking Munich a long time and a lot of effort (money) to switch.

The MS update site wants to put the Australia DST time fix on my US based PC's with US OEM-installed Windows XP. The only common link is having DST enabled.
THE MS update site also has their version of the latest update for the Synaptics touchpad driver on HP/Compaq laptops which disables the touchpad when installed (I've seen this twice in the last month - Compaq Evo N610 and HP NC6000).

I read your post with interest because both my PC at work and at home are up to date with MS Updates. I have not experienced any problems with my USB ports however. My thumb drives and my USB backup drive work fine. Than I started to think and remembered that one of the updates I decided not to install was the one for the "Smart Card" because I didn't need it in either case. I don't know if this could cause the problem or not but maybe some of you Programmers could take a look.

Vista is already reporting hardware issues so dont count on that for a fix.

I do lots of work in China and have yet to see a desktop running anything other than MS. I don't know where you are getting your stats, but they are wrong.

I've had 2 instances of the problem described. Each time i have gone through this procedure and it has worked. Firstly uninstall usb from device manager. secondly uninstall any drivers needed to run the usb devices, including the registry. Thirdly reboot the system and enter the bios, and disable the usb devices. Let the system restart. Shut down the system again and enter the bios, enable usb's, and let the system restart. Hope this helps you out.

Firewire has been around for as long as USB or longer. It has almost always been faster than USB, yet the only ports that are built into a PC (except for higher end systems) is USB. USB is not dead, not going away, and ports that don't work ARE going to hinder the PC's capability to interface with most standard peripheral devices. I think that Firewire is a superior standard, but I don't do anything that requires it and all PC's built after 2000 have at least one port so I use it.

Bill

1) You act as though a cassette tape is of similar quality as a DVD. That's not PLANNED obsolescence. That's called technology. The technology that existed in 1970 isn't the same as is available in 2006.

2) You act as though making money is evil. I'm starting to see TR full of a bunch as socialists.

3) You act as though all closed source, old software is worthless. I'm still running Win '98 on an old laptop...guess it's not worthless.

I'm starting to get tired of everything on TR being a conspiracy. All big business is evil to TR members.

Especially software, but all products are made by humans. Humans aren't perfect. We are constantly improving things. We can't think of, invent, create, etc all things here and now. We are a product of our times.

I, for one, am thankful that technology changes so rapidly. I never did like cassette tapes. And I can pay $10 now for a thumbdrive because no one wants the tiny, old 128MB ones, except me.

"I thought this was a post about USB 2.0 not an argument about who's OS is better"

You're kidding, right? I know as little about how computers work as I can get away with, which is why I find myself in these kinds of forums when things don't work the way they're supposed to.

I don't know much about computers, but I know about Windows help message boards & forums.

I have never seen a Windows help site anywhere that the Mac/Linux/dos/Vic20 group doesn't show to berate Windows users and tell us how stupid we are for using MS.

There seem to have an obsession. They're like missionaries preaching to the natives.

It doesn't matter who , or ho many are using Windows vs. and other system. The guy has a bitch with M$. If you're not part of the solution, stop being a bragging fool. You work on you Linux, and since you can't provide any help, why not just get out of the conversation?

I tried Autofix.exe on my newest pc (Dell Dimension 4600i from 2004, NTFS file system and ATA/ATAPI controller), but got this message: "This type of drive does not support AutoPlay settings." Strange.

Right. And I do lots of work on the planet Mars and I haven't seen anything there that isn't running anything but Linux.

If you'd like to read more than three posts in this discussion before you start posting to it, I recommend:

https://www.techrepublic.com.com/5208-11183-0.html?forumID=89&threadID=192306&messageID=1986826
https://www.techrepublic.com.com/5208-11183-0.html?forumID=89&threadID=192306&messageID=1986606

Of course, since you're a manager you probably feel that you don't need to bother with facts before you render your judgement from on high, but at least I tried.

So, since you can't offer anything that hasn't already been addressed elsewhere in this discussion, why not just get out of the conversation?

Of the 4 WinXP sp2 machines (1 shop, 1 office, home tower & home laptop) I work on regularly, only one has had this problem so far, but since it's my own office machine, I have found it quite annoying. I have 4 flash drives/4 different brand names, all of which have experienced the problem - but all work in the other 3 machines. They all have all the current patches. The USB brands are SanDisk, Lexar, Kanguru, and PNY. All the USBs work fine in any machine but the one, and that one works if I reboot after I get the message. It would be a lot easier to figure out the problem if it were consistent. I have not lost any data from any of the flash drives; as I said they work fine in the other machines. Most of the solutions I have found on the net echo the ones mentioned in this thread: delete the hardware in device manager & re-install. I might even do this, if ever the reboot stops working.

Yes 2 billion. China isn't the agrarian society of the 1960s. It has moved into the 21st century and is pushing the evelope in many ways. Sure they might be a little schizophrenic about being captalists or communist.

Further, MS dropped the ball in China, so now the government officially has chosen to use Linux.

As for the small number of chinese having access to computers, you are just wrong. The culture has improved from the 1960s you know.

First, your profile is empty. Second, I'm sure you have nothing to do with China what so ever.

The government has taken the official stance of using Linux over MS...because MS dropped the ball.

If you care, there are other examples where government entities have chosen Linux over MS. I can think of two right off the top of my head, The city of Munich and the NSA's SELinux project.

Thank god you don't manage me. You can't seem to see the forest for the trees.

Look, the topic was:
"USB 2.0 a Goner????"

The VERY FIRST TWO PARAGRAPHS state that without MS that USB 2.0 is going to die:
"USB 2.0 devices have hit the wall big time.

Somewhere along the line recently, Microsoft has released a bugfix (more likely a bug) that stops any USB 2.0 devices (or USB 1.1 devices on a USB 2.0 controller) from working correctly."

Then the post goes into the technical issues. What really bothers me is that the OP asks for help or an alternative (which was given) and then everyone starts to stick their fingers in their ears and runs around yelling, "MS RULES, LINUX DROOLS."

You are welcome.

Here's a cookie.

What did you do to harden your OS? What firewall are you using? What AV/anti-spyware/malware apps? What content filtering are you doing?

What are you using as a stateful firewall to do? By the way you mentioned firewall 4 times...closing ports (firewall), firewalls (firewall), stateful packet inspection (firewall), and NAT (firewall).

I'd sooner not trust your bogus IP (you might want to check out IANA sometime)

We keep asking "What can Windows do that Linux can't?" We never get a straight answer.

I'm having no problems with XP pro 64, service pack 1.

So I do know some of the problems that come about and I also know that MS isn't helping themselves by attempting to be everything for everyone. [b]No company can hope to do this ever.[/b]

Next thing is as I didn't mention any different OS other than Windows and then only in the context of USB Roll Out what was that one about?

But more importantly as I've said previously I haven't run into this possible problem but I have offered some starting points to try.

As for product and patch testing I've been there and know just how hard it actually is and I also know that you have a list of priorities when you test new Patches from MS or for that matter anything else and that in any decent sized business you just lack the time and equipment to test everything possible even if you only limit your testing to the Hardware used in that business.

As I said in the above post at the moment this is an inconvenience for some people but has the possibility of becoming a major headache for us all if this is going to be the way things go on XP platforms and prevent any USB devices from working.So Yes I most likely do everything that you do and as I've said previously I haven't run into a problem but I also added the word [b]YET.[/b]

That is the difference between us you are willing to just accept what MS dishes out and hope for the best and I don't accept this and believe that as MS owns the desktop their products should work on all the hardware that they claim it will work on. I accepted that there was incompatible hardware to XP when it first hit the streets and I had my fair share of problems with incompatible hardware that passed the MS testing utilities that where then available from MS and I also not only paid to try to find solutions but I also on every occasion found the solution and told MS the workaround or fix.

With XP now nearing the end of its life cycle I just do not find it acceptable that things like this are cropping up. Currently it is only minor but has the potential to be a major problem and force business to switch to Vista before the proper testing has been performed and then there will be even more problems than we currently have. If you want to keep your systems secure you need to patch ASAP and even MS accepts that most of the damage done now is in the time between the release of the Patch and it's implementation as companies need to test before deploying.

To me this problem reeks of sloppy coding and nothing else on the part of the programmers who are left supporting XP in all its 7 different versions.

Could it be that MS in a rush to get Vista to market has removed the best of those involved in plugging the holes in its current product to work on the Vista release and are rushing the code through? That is what appears to be happening here and if that's the case things are going to get much worse as time goes on.

Col

I'll bet dimes to dollars that this USB mess is part of MS trying to "update" the USB standard to fit what they want it to fit.

What really drives me nuts are the USB devices that only work on XP SP2. What is that? They are supposed to be UNIVERSAL, not somewhat universal. Why should you break the functionality of the hardware because your software is borked up?

MS also knows how USB works in their OS architecure. While you can't plan for every eventuallity, you can plan. This is a hardware and kernel problem that was patched, messed up with sloppy code, and then you try to blame the end user!

We need to hold MS to a higher standard or we'll keep on getting patches that break everything....Have you already forgotten the SP2 fiasco?

His USB 1.1 has never worked right, and it did for me about 3 months ago. On my newer AMD (about a year old) a Pair of USB 2.0 Joysticks have only worked for about 6 months, and my Microsoft USB Mouse works 1 minute and dead the next minute. All I know is, not much except this Forum did catch my eye, I've been wondering about for an answer myself. Oh, and Ipods and Samsung MP3 Players, forget about it.

I thought since I lost 2 Joysticks and a Mouse, all in about 6 months, it was something electrically bad about my USB and the power it produces, but Im not an engineer, just a guess. But when I can't plug 3 out of 4 devices in my old PIII either, something is very fishy here.

I too had a similar problem with an Iomega Hard drive. System now recognizes it. Have no idea what I did or didn't do.

I'm up to date on my OS winxp pro and all my USBs work, port hd, printer, webcam, memorysticks, etc. So perhaps there is another explanation. In fact, the webcam works without the manufacturer software, windows has set up an icon on my computer to access the camera. In addition my Sony camera loads and accesses pictures. Maybe I didn't understand what you said.

Thanks...your response was just what I needed.
Too bad I had to go through 35 posts of flames and hot air to get here.

The biggest problem I see with this message string are people who have attempted to hijack it for their own agenda. Two of the worst offenders are nighthawk808 and jmgarvin. If you guys don't have anything to say about the issue, then just stay out of it.

If you use your favorite tactics, you'll say I haven't posted much, and you'd be right. What relevance that has to this issue, or the issue The Young One requested assistance with, I'll never know. But you keep on using that to imply you have more of a right to post than others. Next you'll say I'm not a tech guru and you'll be right again, for I'm not. My areas of expertise do not include computer science. But I have plenty of experience spotting people who'll do anything to provoke a petty argument, up to and including the sophomoric drivel of which you cannot write enough. And if you continue to remain true to your modus operandi, you'll next find some sarcastic and demeaning way to imply that had I read the entire message string, I'd have found what I had to say had already been stated by another and thwarted by your astute observations of life. I just didn't have the time or inclination to read any further, having already listened to numerous choruses of "Microsoft stinks".

I'm tired of you guys and your kind. There seems to be no refuge against your ilk on the web. I can't understand why you feel the need to attack Microsoft so fiecely. Did Bill Gates take your girlfriend away from you in college? Are you a disgruntled former employee? Is your life so patherically devoid of meaning and/or purpose that you have nothing better to do than insult Microsoft products and their users daily?

I just don't get it. Let's say for the sake of argumetn that I've used one brand of any product for years, and then find I like another brand more. Should I spend my life in protest of the other product or should I move on, using the new product I've found, extolling its virtues to those close to me? You tell me. But then, I'm sure my last suggestion was unnecessary, for I'm certain you will "set me straight" without any encouragement at all!

Normally I am criticized for being too conservative and terrible spelling!! :-) So I must have not been clear in my message. I appreciate the feedback. I did state it was market forces, and it was normal. I think where my thoughts got off track is when I said I felt bad for the customer. I was tech, not a sales guy, and I really wanted to help fix their problem. To me, suggesting a new computer when they wanted to fix the old one to save money was just not my style. Which is why I did not last long in retail.

And for the record, I own a few software company stocks, and none are open source stocks. The open source companies do not fit my portfolio style. I was merely trying to relate my own circumstance that constant upgrades that are expensive are not freindly to the individual consumer.

<1) You act as though a cassette tape is of similar quality as a DVD. That's not PLANNED obsolescence. That's called technology. The technology that existed in 1970 isn't the same as is available in 2006.>

On a personal note, I am deaf at low and high frequencies, so I have a hard time telling the difference between a cassette and a DVD-audio version of the same title. But I understand that is not the case for the majority of people.
You are correct, we have made improvements in technology, but like Agent K said "I am going to have to buy the White album again."
But, it is planned obsolescence. The technology for CD (early 70's after the LaserDisc, but on sale in 1983) came out about the same time as cassette (1963, but really 1971). Additionally, the technology for LaserDisc (1969) was out before the VHS (1976) was available for sale. There is a lot of additional history here, but is shows it is planned obsolescence.

<2) You act as though making money is evil. I'm starting to see TR full of a bunch as socialists. >

Perhaps my writing came off as such, but do not assume my actions. I stated a fact. Old versions of closed software do not make companies money. They must continually make new versions to drive revenue. In the open-Source model, revenue is driven by support, so the older versions are still of less value than the current version, but to a smaller degree. I did not mean to make anyone think making money was bad. Both types of software make money.

<3) You act as though all closed source, old software is worthless. I'm still running Win '98 on an old laptop...guess it's not worthless.>

I had a Windows 98 machine running on an Intel BX440 chipset until last December. The MB died, and I could not find a replacement, so I had to build another PC. Windows 98SE did everything I needed, now I had to buy most of my software over again to get the new version that is compatible with Windows XP. Everything works great with the new PC, but my old PC was great as well. However, good luck getting any security updates.

My message was apparently poorly worded. Some customers accused me of a conspiracy to get them to spend more money at the time. when all they wanted was "to upgrade a PC that was not that old." It is odd that now people think I am accusing others of the same conspiracy.

I agree, but I do not like paying a lot of money for seemingly minor updates.

Your own message was also confusing. You like the new technology, but you still use the older. So I think we are more alike than different.

HAL 9000 -

My message may have been confusing as i was referring to many sections of this entire discussion, and not replying to you entirely. My apologies for this failure to adhere to etiquette.

However your question was who else to blame? My position is MS is not entirely at fault. The admin is paid to be an expert in the stuff tehy are to administer, no matter what the vendor throws at them. Having supported many platforms, I do like the MS model best. (I have been working on Oracle recently, and it is maddening to see a product called 10g, when the actual version is 9.0.4...)

Even if MS was grossly negligent in releasing a patch, it is still up to the admin to make it go. It is just a matter of time before a bad patch hits my stuff hard. But it is still up to me to fix it. Any time I have to pay for somebody else's services or products, I am taking a risk in the quality. Due diligence in my position requires that I always look at other options and weigh the costs to the benefits. So far Microsoft has been the cheapest for us.

Support requires certain tasks to mitigate risk to the production environment. Hopefully MS will step up and fix the problem if it is indeed thier problem. however, like you said it is not possible to test everything. You also must know that patchig something such as an O/S is not easy and patching a patch is even harder. It will take time for MS to research the exact problem, and then more time to come up with code, then more time to test, and then finally release. If it is a MS problem, we need to give them the feedback that the patch is bad, and then give them time to correct the problem. We can continue to tell them the urgency to make sure it is a priority for them. However, short of writing a fix yourself, what else can you do?

As for MS trying to hijack standards, I would not worry about it too much. It never seems to work out well for them. The internet is working fine with or without ActiveX, Java is stronger than ever, and TCP/IP is still with us.

I neither like nor dislike MS. I have to simply deal with them, as I do with all my vendors. MS does try to bully us around in terms of licensing, but we have managed. MS is just looking out for their primary product their stock price. Any companyies primary product is the stock price, and they take actions they believe are in the best interests of the owners. We do not ahve to agree with it, but in the end all we can do is provide feedback and hope the change or buy a different product.

Your response was well thought out and we probably do have a lot in common.

Perhaps I flamed permaturely.

I think most of us can also agree that it is quite unfortunate that TR has become a flame ground for the OS wars.

This poor guy was simply seeking a solution to his problem and look where it has gotten us.

I've your newest posts and you seem very reasonable. I just wish that the majority of other TR members could take off their colored glasses as you have and try just for once to be objective.

That is where I do have a Problem with MS as when I ring them with a problem that is of their making I'm just fobbed off or even in a worse case scenario one time I installed a Patch that they insisted that I just had to have and on the reboot I saw all my Optical Drives disappear, every one of my SCSI drives do the same thing and my network connection as well. It crippled the M'Board drivers and what was even worse it was impossible to remove so I just had one IDE Boot drive working.

On the few occasions when I've had to ring MS for a fix to a problem it's been 3 times now and I've been working with MS products since the DOS days I'm at first treated like a complete idiot which is part way acceptable as they have to cover the basics and don't know how proficient the person that they are talking to is or isn't. But it's the Organization that they run as I constantly get passed up the food chain and each time I have to go through exactly the same things that I started off doing and waste time which the customer is paying for.

It's much better now that I have the Head Techs direct phone number but most likely the next time that I have to use the MS Support Service it will be changed and I'll have to go through the entire process again. The main advantage of the current versions of Windows is that's its easy to use and the main disadvantage is that it's easy to use and most users have little to no knowledge of how Windows actually works.

Since Win 95 hit the streets I've seen a general dumbing down of both Tech Staff and End Users as well as MS support staff as I'm convinced that the ones at the lower levels are not techs at all but people who only qualification is to be able to type in a help question and then read the screen.

I'm also feed up with being constantly told that I'm expecting too much from an OS because I originally worked Main Frames and I shouldn't expect Windows to work anywhere near as well as the Mainframes that I cut my teeth on.

There is lots of places that MS can improve and support is one of them. I sell a lot of MS product and make quite a nice living off it as well but that doesn't mean that I have to love it at the expense of everything else which is the expectation of MS at least. They hit the roof when the looked at my Companies Web Page for 2 reasons one was that I offer Linux and other OS support I group that all into one item because as far as I'm concerned its all Unix basically and then the really funny one I listed their Anti Piracy Hot line number and e-mail address to address piracy issues. MS didn't like this at all and I for the life of me can not understand why particularly as I had already asked was this acceptable to the marketing department and was told that they wished more of their Partners would do this. They even emailed me a Sample EULA to use if I wanted to and then several weeks latter they are ringing me and insisting that I remove both the Nix link and any reference to their Anti Piracy Contact points.

Two phone calls cured the problems but I don't think that they have the right to dictate to me how I run the business that I own and even more so insist something that is in direct contradiction to the Laws here. At that time I wasn't offering Business customers a Linux Desktop option just the large server market that MS wasn't then and still isn't addressing.

The Anti Piracy bit though was way beyond my understanding particularly as they already supplied a Make Sure It Genuine leaflet that I include with every one of the quotes that I do. I don't think that I'll ever understand their reasoning on that one though.

Col

SOMEBODY done something wrong. I am having not problems with my USB ports. I have done all the UPdates with MS and no problems.

I spent a week trying to install SP1 onto a brand New XP Pro box when SP1 first came out and the P4 was only a few weeks old.

It worked perfectly with XP but the moment that you loaded SP1 it deleted the MBR's on the Boot Drive which was a nuisance to say the least. The system had 2 HDD's one DVD Reader and a CD Burner at the time DVD burners where too expensive and a DVD Reader cost a lot more than a CD Burner.

While I didn't build this system I got a phone call one Sunday Afternoon from a friend who was at another friends place and the SMART was insisting the the Primary HDD be changed as it was about to fail. Just what you want on a Sunday Afternoon doing work for a friend of a friend and traveling 50 KMS one way to get there to what should have been a straight forward job as I just Cloned the drive and installed the new HDD.

Then things went to hell in a hand basket when he asked me to apply SP1, it installed without a hitch and then on the reboot insisted that there was no system drive present and after I dropped in a Knoppix CD I found that the C drive was indeed blank.

So I cloned the drive back and disconnected the CD Burner as at the time MS was talking about some Issues with these and tried again and got the same result no MBR's on the C Drive.

At that stage I removed everything that wasn't necessary to the working of Windows and just had a Video Card one HDD and the DVD Reader connected so I could load SP1 off a CD that I had made up and I got exactly the same thing again. So I then tried the MS testing utility to check for incompatible Hardware with XP and of course everything passed with flying colors. At that point I couldn't find a long enough extension lead so I could throw the running computer into the swimming pool about 10 feet from the window that I was working near. Of course everyone having a good time while I was working didn't help much either.

I took the unit away and spent ages trying to get SP1 to install. The original suppliers who where suspect at best had sold him the machine with a XP upgrade CD and a copy of 98SE but of course they had bulk installed XP Pro onto the drive so the product keys didn't match up either.

But that was one of the phone calls to MS who insisted that it should work OK and that the problem had to be in the way that the machine was originally loaded and insisted that all of the hardware was compatible with SP1 so I grabbed a new OEM copy of XP and tried loading from that and got the same results so at that point I started to suspect the hardware and of course the last thing that even considered changing was the culprit a Samsung DVD Reader. :( And of course the CD Burner which I had been told wouldn't work properly with SP1 worked perfectly.

Needless to say I was less than impressed with myself for not looking there first up and even more so with the Head MS tech insisting that that drive couldn't produce a problem. But I did enjoy ringing up MS and reporting the incompatible hardware which was added to their list I'm just wish I wasn't the one to find it as I only got paid for the HDD and I didn't even cover the cost of the petrol involved in running down there twice let alone the Sunday afternoon that I lost and this had to be pushed through as he needed it to send out invoices for the week by Thursday so it was always a [b]Rush Job.[/b]

I could have left the system there without SP1 installed but then again I would never have found the problem either so some of us do experience problems with MS and their products that we just have to fix.

Or there is the other issue that has caught out quite a few people like the Meta file Data that is stored in every Office Document that allows the recipient to read the original contents of these documents that have been e-mailed out that was a big one recently with several US Government Agencies getting their fingers burnt. I'm betting that the Bureaucrats responsible for that one got immediate promotions and some others where placed in the positions that had been left empty to fix up the mess. :^0

Over all though I don't have many problems with any MS product but then again I don't have many problems with Unix/Linux either. Both are as reliable as each other from a hardware stand point and the only thing that I like about the Nix units that I build/maintain is that there is far less work involved in keeping them running and I certainly don't have any Licensing issues with them either. The MS Licensing setup is a minefield that I'm constantly wading through as almost every copy of Windows & Office that I sell are Volume License stuff and when you are dealing with these the companies involved in selling them are not the easiest places to deal with. They are the biggest [b]Put Off[/b] that I run into. With places like Novell it's just not an issue.

Col

Some of you should get a life.

This is absolutely unbelievable! This forum used to be a place to come for CIVILIZED conversation and knowledge sharing. Sure, there were a few threads that devolved into the petty BS of Linux/Wintel/Mac, but they were started to be those kinds of threads. If the linux ostriches feel that they need to slam Windows at every chance they get, pleas go somewhere else to do it, and give those of us who want to actually help each other and share info back our forums.

Now, on to the important stuff... I have found that thumbdrives in particular, if they are larger than 512-1GB (depending on the manufacturer) require a powered USB port. You will find powered ports on either a powered device (powered hub, monitor, etc) or on the box itself. Smaller drives can be connected to remote jacks (such as on a keyboard). Most of the devices that people have been saying work on unpowered hubs have seperate power (external drives, CD/DVD Writers, printers). I do not think that there is really much of an issue here unless it is a power draw issue.

China's Current Population: 1,306,313,812

You're about 693,686,188 short on that 2 bil' mark (give or take a few hundred thousand). I figured it was enough of a difference for me to post this invaluable tidbit of info on this USB 2.0 Goner discussion.

Funny how a conversation on USB 2.0 problems involved knowledge on the current population of China.

If you don't believe my numbers, check it out yourself.

Ok, so the population isn't 2 billion it's closer to 1.3 billion.

Subtract those that don't own a computer and those that run something other than Linux.

Sorry jmgarvin...I think you were spreading some FUD yourself there buddy.

I know, your response will be that's still a lot of people. And it is. But FUD includes stretching of facts which you seem to do as well.

"Look at the companies nowadays that require Windows Media Player simply to load MP3's onto a player."

Name them and I'd be more than happy to post them on my website and encourage people not to buy them.

I think most of the world would agree with you that if there are business practices such as that occurring, they should be stopped, even among Windows users.

Do you have proof? Not just the mere need for Media Player, but proof of an exchange of money?

The mere fact that a manufacturer requires something such as Media Player, doesn't prove an exchange of money or underhanded tactics.

You might be right, but prove it first before you make allegations.

I was wrong. I missed who actually mistakenly guessed 2 billion. Sorry about that. Here's your chance to call me an idiot, rickk and the rest of the gang.

Editied to replace a completely wrong statement and apologize.

The sad truth is that licensed users of software in china are an exception mostly located in Taiwan.
That is of course a generalization of fact. But if you want to talk billions.(Then it is a valid one)

Somehow, in all that reading, you seem to have missed the topic completely. There are two topics in this discussion:

1 - TYO posts a message saying USB is going to die because M$ screwed something up. I pointed out that Microsoft isn't the only OS in the world. Naturally, everyone gets up in arms about someone pointing that out. Oh well.

2 - Apparently somewhere in that first post was a question. It was ingeniously phrased as a plea to Bill Gates to inform the rest of the world if he's killed USB. I'm assuming this is what you mean when you say "get back on topic".

I'm the one doing most of the attacking, eh? Let's look chronologically, shall we?

Post 1: Microsoft is killing USB off. No mention of anyone else in the world except Microsoft.
Post 2: Hey out there, not everyone is using M$, I say. I even throw in a little joke to inject some humor.
Post 3: I'm called a purist and told "Back in your box newbie". A good laugh was had by all who know me and how far removed from newbie I am.
Post 4: I reiterate post 2, but more clearly. TYO is informed that I am not a newbie.
Post 5: Here's a nice quote: "Get off the forums, get a life and don't be a ****. If you really knew what you were doing you would probably be out there doing the job instead of playing silly buggers on forums all day." How cordial of TYO. He signs off by trying to end a thread without even having the courtesy to do it properly by bringing up Hitler.
Post 6: I bluntly point out that he should check his "facts" before posting.

I fail to see how I'm the one on the attack.

Failure to do the Googling for you on my part does not constitute a point scored on your part.

How can it be a Windows issue when all your flash drives work but one?

And it works on all your PC's but one?

Sounds to me that you've got something going on with that PC and not Windows.

Process of elimination...what are the differences between your PC's?

This is outrageous. I hope you are wrong; however, after two clients started having problems with their PC's lately both involving installations of USB devices that resulted in a BSOD that was un-fixable so far. I'm curious. I am printing this out to bring to a client tomorrow. Not that this is the clear answer but at least they will have some understanding of why I'm confused by her issue. The BSOD is an unknown hard error in mediaxp and there was no file associated with the error which is weird. Usually this is a driver issue or an incorrectly updated piece of hardware.(like USB components) I find it hard to believe Microsoft would do this intentionally, I think it is a bug and I'm hoping more is fleshed out in this forum about it. Thanks for bringing your experience here.

And behold, you illustrate my point flawlessly.

Bravo!

I'm glad I took two years of Latin in college instead of wasting the time on business courses. I knew it would come in handy someday.

If that's the best you could come up with, why even bother?

USB is not off market as you put it.

There are too many devices still being sold with USB connectivity to say that this technology is dead or "off market" as you put it.

Products are continually being designed, manufactured & released to the consumer public in any of the following usb flavors:
- USB Original
- USB Hi-Speed
- USB Wireless
- On-The-Go USB
- Hi-Speed On-The-Go USB

FYI - The USB Implementers Forum, Inc. (USB-IF) was established in 1995 to support and accelerate the market and consumer adoption of USB compliant peripherals. Today, the USB-IF has more than 900 (I would say that 900 companies is a large number) member companies and has led the way in helping companies introduce hundreds of USB-compliant products to the market.

Board of Directors/ The USB-IF, Inc. Board of Directors is composed of the following companies and their designated representative Directors:

Agere Systems - Dave Thompson
Hewlett-Packard Company - Alan Berkema
Intel Corporation - Jeff Ravencraft
Microsoft Corporation - Fred Bhesania
NEC Corporation - Katsuhiko Nakazawa
Philips - Geert Knapen

Corporate Officers/ The USB-IF, Inc. Corporate Officers are:

Chairman/President - Jeff Ravencraft, Intel Corporation
Vice-President - Geert Knapen, Philips
Secretary - Geert Knapen, Philips
Treasurer - Brad Hosler, Intel Corporation

Do you really think the above mentioned people would waste their time on a technology that was "off market".

Let me say that Firewire is great technology and it definitely has it's advantages, one primarily is speed, you can't get around that difference. But USB is far more pervasive than Firewire, you aren't going to phase out a technology like USB anytime soon. All new pc's & laptops (for several years already) come with a certain number of USB ports by default, you can't say the same concerning Firewire as it's still considered optional, not everyone will make use of Firewire technology, however it can be said with great confidence that most everyone using a pc has used a USB connected device at least once (keyboard, mouse, printer, digital camera, scanner, video camera, external storage device, external cd/dvd burner, webcams, etc. - the list goes on & on).

If you don't like USB technology for some reason, so be it - everyone is entitled & encouraged to have their own opinion, but to say that USB is "off market" isn't an intelligent statement to make in a tech forum, not by any stretch. USB will be with us for quite some time, you can bet the farm on that.

Continuing the O/T discussion. I see posters making statements w/o any sources.
A good source of basic country specific information is the CIA Factbook: http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/

From the China Factbook:
http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/ch.html

(The economic picture in China has improved, but has a ways to go. If you live in the city along the coast line you are likely to be in a modern environment and economically similar to many people in the US. However, rural Chinese are often in desperate straits.)
>Measured on a purchasing power parity (PPP) basis, China in 2005 stood as the second-largest economy in the world after the US, although in per capita terms the country is still lower middle-income and 150 million Chinese fall below international poverty lines. Economic development has generally been more rapid in coastal provinces than in the interior and there are large disparities in per capita income between regions. The government has struggled to (a) sustain adequate jobs growth for tens of millions of workers laid off from state-owned enterprises, migrants, and new entrants to the work force; (b) reduce corruption and other economic crimes; and (c) contain environmental damage and social strife related to the economy's rapid transformation. From 100 to 150 million surplus rural workers are adrift between the villages and the cities, many subsisting through part-time, low-paying jobs<
Additional stats re. the quality of life:
.2% official registered unemployment in urban areas in 2004; substantial unemployment and underemployment in rural areas; an official Chinese journal estimated overall unemployment (including rural areas) for 2003 at 20% (2004)

As far as the internet connectivity :
(from the same source)
China has benefited from a huge expansion in computer Internet use, with more than *100 million users* at the end of 2005.

Try to uninstall the recent updates(patches) one after other and see which one is causing prob. if you know after which update the problem crept. just nail that one out.

I rolled my system back to before I had run the updates and everything went back to normal. Since I did not load anything else on my system it seems that it has to be one of the updates. We are in the process of running the updates one at a time on a lab machine so we can isolate the one that is the problem. When we do I will let you know what we find and if you do first let me know.
As for all the knuckleheads on here spouting their nonsense, get a grip or a life or both. If you have nothing better to do, at least be helpful and part of the solution. Very sorry but turning everyone into a Linux user is not the solution or an option, no matter HOW RIGHT YOU THINK YOU ARE!!!!

I look after 4 extended family machines with XP Home SP2 and all updates installed. No problems at all with around 8 usb devices in total including key fob flash drives. Perhaps this is something in the XP Pro domain?

Has anyone even asked if YoungOne even has the option of changing to a new OS? I know here where I am I have no say, I have to support what is put in front of me.

Another bit of info, in the paper this morning was an article that MAC is now supplying a beta software that will allow Windows XP pro to run on the Intel based MACs.

Again, just F.Y.I.

I have done all of Microsoft's updates, and just about a month ago, I lost all my usb capabilities. I couldn't figure out what was wrong, and almost flashed my bios, but the easiest fix was to buy a pci/usb card and install it in an empty slot and that fixed the problem. Now after reading your post, that's exactly what happened to me.

I am City University of New York student, and all they have is XP. I just experienced the problem described by YoungOne with the "A device exceeded the power requirements" pop-up message. It seemed very weird to me as i use this CORSAIR stick throught the CUNY colleges and on my (XP) home computers w/out ANY problems. I atributed that message to a tired MoBO that probably lost it's mind, even though that was the same type of DELL machine that CUNY has throughout its locations and i just can't see why that configuration would suddenly not be able to physically handle a CORSAIR memory stick anymore. My question is, should the whole CUNY shift to LINUX/SuSe/Ubuntu just because of this ? You know that is impossible. There are deals and contracts that have been made. Should all the students that are no longer able to use the A:\ floppy stop using their key-chain memory sticks and go buy powered hubs to shlep in their back packs? Right... hang tight for that to happen, buddy.

i have a 1GB sandisk micro cruzer on a xp professional box and i dont any issues with it.. i am also fully patched and updated using microsoft security baseline analyzer.

I've had many problems with MS updates and patches in the past. So, several years ago I changed they way I do things. I disable auto update in all my machines. Lock them down with hardware and software firewalls, anti-virus, and anti-spyware, and then keep an eye on everything. Haven't had a problem since.
Rick

Did you catch that I said USB is the only port that is built into a computer by default? USB is popular. Popular does not make a protocol superior in technical terms. If you look into the firewire standard (in theory) it takes a great deal less to connect two end devices (Say a printer and a camera) than USB, but very few devices (that I have heard of) actually allow you to do this.
Some of the reasons that I think that USB is popular is because Microsoft and Intel both push this standard. Another reason may be that firewire is more expensive to manufacture because it is more complex.

Bill

My understanding of the MS SC fix (simplified):
Smart Card readers (we use them) use lots of power, and if the USB hub gets overloaded powerwise, not only do you get card read errors but the card can be logically damaged. Has happened to us.
The USB internal hub identifies it's capabilities including power available.
USB devices plugged in identify themselves, including power requirements (and in the case of hubs, power available (if powered)).
Onr thing the MS fix for WinXP does is set up a comparison between power available and power required, and it won't allow devices to be added if the hub will be overloaded.
If the hub understates the power it can provide, and/or a device overstates the power it requires, but the numbers work per the patch, no problem.
If the hub overstates the power it can provide, or if a device understates the power it requires, the patch can't do anything, but you might have a problem.
Sounds like the SIS USB hub may understate the power available, and/or the SanDisk drive may overstate the power it requires, either causing a rejection by the patch.
We had overheating problems with the USB hubs in our Dells - using the scroll wheel on the mouse would cause the power supply to the video and USB hub to shut down. Required hard reboot.

Not sure if this will provide any help.

Phil B

This is not a good way to influence people into helping you out.
Here at Tech Republic you'll find some of the smartest and most up to date people in the business.
I know of which I speak. The beauty is that we all come here to help and lend our individual expertise to solving all kinds of problems, just like your's.
So I would be very careful about denigrating or "Putting down" a Member here.
I understand your frustration, you have a problem, fine it can be fixed but not with that attitude.
Don't attack one of our best. Better yet, don't attack at all.
I Strongly suggest a re-evaluation on how you pose your questions and above all, refrain from attacks as they are remembered long after the event and so it the author. He/she is then ignored.
Speak as though you were speaking to friends.
You'll be treated in kind and your problem will be solved. ;)
Regards
Aaron :)

Consider the Following
Go to
Start \ Setting \ Control Panel \ System \ Hardware \ Device Manager \ Usb Controller.
At the top, in the menu bar, make sure it states to view all hidden devices
The right click on your USBs individually and go through the menu of each one of them.
The last one will say, "Allow the Computer to turn this device off"
Make sure that this remains unchecked or your USB won't be recognized or allocated.
This is where I think your problem solution lies.
Combined with the possibility that the Controller in the Services area might also be turned off.
It would be enough to give you problems.
The Patch may have caused these areas to shut down, or return to default.
This is where I would start.
Good Luck
Regards
Aaron

I have several computers with Windows XP. I have a lot of USB 2.0 devices connected to them, including CD-RW drives, DRD-RAM drives, flash drives, trackballs, keyboards, a Web cam and an MP3 player. Everything works. Never stopped working.