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by maxwell edison

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What happened to the View All Open Questions Link?

Is this a temporary glitch or is it a permanent change for the worst?

Personally, I'll answer fewer questions - a lot fewer - if I have to go from one category to another. I would assume that others share my sentiment, and a change like that will result in fewer answers overall.

Is this a change for the worst?

Maxwell

114 replies

by dklippert

I agree. I'm hoping it's temporary. Perhaps as part of a needed upgrade of the service.

by dklippert

I'm glad to see it's back. I'm also glad that TechRepublic listens to comments.
Thanks to you also Maxwel, for bring this to the forefront.

by bohicam1

Geez Maxwell, you're just giving the points away ;-)
I recall a few months back when soulrider(I think) posed the question of how we all liked the new look of techrepublic Q&A forum.
To be honest, I never did use the "view all open questions" feature as I do look at all of them and if there is something I am interested in, and it happens to be closed, I still would like to see how the issue was resolved. What I do miss though is the fact that I can no longer see which questions are left unanswered.
So, to answer your question I will say that it can be viewed as for the worst for those of you that do not wish to view every question and irrelevant for those of us that do not(did not) use the feature before.

Mike

by thechas

Hi Maxwell, it was there this morning, and gone this evening.

Right now, I'm using the show all questions option from the response that shows up when I click my bookmark for the View All Open Questions link.

Interestingly, the open questions only sort option from there doesn't work either.

Only setting both options to "all questions" am I able to get a list.

I hope this is just a temporary bug also.

Chas

by thechas

Hi again Maxwell,

As you can see from answer #13, the link was removed on purpose.

I have spent the last 20 minutes in a frustrating search for new questions.
My biggest concern here, is that the users posting the questions will become frustrated by the slow and limited response to their questions.

I sent an e-mail to Ms Combs Thursday after you posted this question.

Perhaps, the answer to the problem with web crawlers slowing down the site is to hide the All Questions link unless a user is logged on.

I recommend that we all think of potential sullotions, and post them as comments to our responses.

Chas

by thechas

While I am anxiously awaiting the new All Questions link, hear's a new rub.

I was browsing through the Q&A catagories last night, and a warning popped up instead of the catagory that I had click on.
The warning stated that I was acting like a web-crawler, and to read the user agreement.

Anyone else get this warning?

I was using Mozilla (RC2), and opening up one catagory at a time in a new tab.
I closed each tab before opening a new tab.

Chas

by thechas

Reading over Java Guru's comments on the "new system".

If the old Q&A database is archived over into a seperate area when the new system is implemented, is there someway to mass-mail all of the members with open questions, and request that they close the questions.

I would also recommend that the "Auto-close" funtion be revised to reject all un-rated answers.
After-all, if the answer is un-rated, there is no way to no if it even helped the member solve their problem.

Chas

by thechas

I'm sure that we are all glad to have the link back.

A special thanks to Maxwell for funding this forum with his points.

Has anyone had any problems with the link?
Is it giving you all that you expect?

I would ask that Maxwell keep this question open for another week so that any feedback on the link can be posted.

Chas

by thechas

One more thought.

I don't know if anyone else has paid attention to the link at the bottom of the Q&A page.
I went to experts-exchange to see what they have.

Talk about catagories!

Their present system looks a lot different than it did 6 months ago.

Looks like everything on the web changes.

Chas

by mslizny

I also find it much more useful and interesting to view all open questions. Sometimes I learn something I wasn't looking for, sometimes I find I am posting an answer to a question in a category I would not expect to find myself in.

by mslizny

Thank you, Maxwell Edison, for getting the
discussion started that made the difference!

by pschuvie

Well this certainly makes ME feel better. I thought I had lost something, stepped into another parallel realm or worse, that my glasses had finally clouded over to the point I WAS missing something.

Bring back the filter, only improve it so thatyou can tailor a group of "groups" to see together. Somedays I just dont want to see those "windows 2000" or "programming" topics.

Certainly my interest will wain if I have to run around looking for where there might be new postings and bouncefrom group to group. Heck getting back to the list after answering a question is/was cumbersome enough.

All things change, some not for the better, and hopefully there was not a "committee" decision made or one can guarantee it will be for the worse.

by pschuvie

First let me add my thank you to those already expressed for the outstanding effort initiated and guided along by our one and only Maxwell Edison.

Maxwell, you done good, now all we have to figure out is are you a radical for rising up and fighting or are you a defender of justice in making sure that things don't just "happen". Maybe a Radical Defender would apply?

Certainly thanks also go to everyone who participated in expressing opinions, showing unity on a point, and in providing input to the TR team. Special thanks to TIM the Toolman, who not only seems to have a lot to say but the time to say it, or maybe he just types better then most.

To the TR folks, well Java, congrats on the new family member, and for the effort in appeasing both sides of this issue, it certainly is not easy being the guy in the middle, thanks for the fix. Hoosier, you've got a mighty challenge, and if a review of some of the comments by "established" members of Builders.com is any indication of what you can expect as you take this site to the next level, well time to stock up on earplugs and Rolaids. Change is just rough, no two ways about it.

So now that this has ran on like an Academy Awards acceptance speech by the guy that won best technical direction of a dog in a space theme adventure involving animated graphics, who cares , just get to best picture.

Again, thanks Maxwell keep up the diligence and the good fight.

Oh one last thing, ha thought I was leaving the stage, nooooooo If TR were significantly commited to gathering feedback towards the future MAYBE they could make a nice well directed email address to send it to rather than the crippled lame feedback mechanism I seem to get just auto responded from.???? Eh? Anyone?

Bye now, really

by joseph moore

I am on dialup and sometimes not everything is displayed correctly. I was hoping that is what is going on.
Personally, I did not use the View All Open Questions link at first; I went from category to category, looking for interesting questions to try and help with (and to learn a lot along the way). Then I tried the All Open link, and have never gone back.
I hope the link is back tomorrow. For me, I won't be able to answer as much as I do, since it will take so much more time in finding interesting questions.
My 2 cents on this.

by shanghai sam

Many times links don't show the correct information. Any improvements like "View all open questions" are usefully. Sometimes with this options I view questions which normally are not in my area of specialization but I cant post an answer. I hope this is temporary problem.

by gigelul

Many times links don't show the correct information. Any improvements like "View all open questions" are usefully. Sometimes with this options I view questions which normally are not in my area of specialization but I can post an answer. I hope thisis temporary problem.
This is another problem: sometime when I post an answer my name is "user deleted"

by syscokid

Another day and the link is still gone and my bookmark doesn't work. No way am I going category by category. I did it just now, but unless the All Open Questions link comes back, I'm pretty much outta here.

by syscokid

A comment to Java Guru: First, thanks for the detailed response. It's good to know that people are listening.

Regarding returning the link with a time cache, I'd support that. I think one hour is too long, but if that's the minimum, then I canlive with it. Previously, I would have All Questions open on my desktop all day, and I'd refresh it every 15-20 minutes. Maybe I was part of the problem!!?? ;->

by syscokid

This is just a quick note for TheChas and Tim the Toolman about Experts Exchange, since I'm active there as well as here.

EE has patented the system of a Q&A forum based on points. How that is patentable I don't know, but I've seen the patent, someone there once posted a link to it.

AFAIK, there is NO link between EE and TR. EE started out as a small company, was bought by venture capitalists who almost destroyed it, and is now back in the hands of the original owners, who are doing their best to bring it back.

My guess is that as part of the licensing agreement in using the patented system is that TR must include a link to EE on every page in the Q&A section.

But I could be wrong. Heck, it's been known to happen. :)

by maxwell edison

A couple of people thus far have commented on the "new look". Well, at first I had some observations (both favorable and otherwise), but I remained open-minded about it thinking it was just different, not necessarily better or worse, and that I would eventually become used to it. But as time went by I've come to dislike it. I much prefer the old look - and the better way of user interaction it afforded. And it appears that I’m not alone is suggesting that the absence of that link will cause a lot of people to use the forum less. That certainly does not bode well for some folks who are looking for solutions to tough problems.

I think the powers-that-be should heed the maxim, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it". Why is it that they change the things that are working fine, bit continually overlook the things that aren't? For example, I've emailed them about misspelled words on their Web pages, but they're still misspelled. And another thing, why don’t they fix something that is really wrong like that User Deleted issue?

As a side thought, I wonder if the fact that the degradation of the usefulness of this site is related to the CNET purchase or if it's just a coincidence. I’m beginning to think that there’s someone who changes things just for the sake of changing them.

To TheChas: Will you share that bookmark with the rest of us by pasting it into a comment? (In case this change is permanent.)

To mslizny: That's exactly right. One may indeed see something useful he or she was not looking for, and/or may be able to be helpful with in an area outside their usual realm of expertise.

As far as the comment about me giving away my points, what else are they good for but to give away?

Maxwell

by dmiles

Maxwell,

I cannot say why the Link disappeared or what the cause may be,this could be a internal error on the server end of TechRepublic,kand the answer would have to come from them as to why this has happened.

I donot think it is any thing that members are missing the link,have tried on different machines and this problem exist on the site server.

Have emailed TechRepublic about this and I am not sure when they will reply,no doubt it will be after the problem is fixed

Most likely it is caused by a glitch in their program,so hang in thier and hopefully this will be a temporary problem.

by dmiles

As noted the link has been removed by Hoosier Daddy of TechRepublic and it was based on the comparison of sht. hits which I fail to understand how he came to the conclusion that this link not being used or is it some other reason that the link was removed,the comparison answer was weak.

by timthetoolman

Hi Maxwell,

Yep, I've already written to them about this and I think I said I wasn't likely to be the only person to miss that link. It appears I was right!

I suspect they're having server problems. I'm guessing they didn't follow their own advice re: Capacity Planning...

I cant imagine why else they would remove the link - apart from reducing server load.

Anyway, I hope it comes back because surfing individual categories takes way too much time and effort. It still takes a several seconds for a page to load (despite a broadband connection) and if you have to go to 10 areas of interest, well...

Cheers,
Tim.

by timthetoolman

Oh, and another thing... I wonder if the TechRepublic people even look at their site!?!?

Yooohooo!!! Anybody out there???

Why dont you post a message to explain whats going on???

by timthetoolman

Hi,

Well, to HoosierDaddy... Did it ever occur to you guys to actually look to see who was using that link?

Afterall the majority of answers come from maybe 20 people on your site and its those 20 people who you should be looking out for!

TechRepublic is a great site, but dont underestimate the importance of the 20 or so people who significantly help to make it so!

Furthermore they do it for free!! So is it so much to ask that they should be heard? And personally replied to when they ask questions and make suggestions to TechRepublic?

I did a rough calculation based on what I see in the Q&A Section and I suspect you're giving over 1/2 Million dollars/year of free advice through your site.

Thats a big reason for people to go there! And say things like.

"Woa! Great site!! I might get my company to buy into it to get their online documentation too...."

Just a thought.

Cheers,
Tim.

by timthetoolman

Hi again,

Yep nice call, TheChas. I thought maybe they could periodically regenerate those pages as static pages - maybe every hour or so - to reduce the load, but I think your idea is much better in the short term!

...but in general, isn't itgood to have references to the site on the various search engines out there?

I think the real solution is to upgrade their hardware to allow for the growth they must've been experiencing with their site... pour a bit of money back into their business!!

Cheers,
Tim.

by timthetoolman

Hi Java Guru,

Its good to see that we're finally getting some real feedback on your (our) problems...

How about TheChas' suggestion of making the "View all open questions" a link that will only operate if the user is logged in?

I'm sure that the few people who use it without logging in would accept that as a compromise... besides, as far as I can tell, the site still isn't protected from the web crawlers as they'll now hit the individual categories with much the same result!?!?

Perhaps the whole Q&A section should only operate for users that have successfully logged in?

If you're going to port the whole thing to an off the shelf solution, will you be doing some sort of survey from us as to what features we'd like?

That would be good!! Lots of browning points for TR...

Cheers,
Tim.

by timthetoolman

Oh.... one more thing,

A completely different approach... Perhaps the others could comment on it if they read this and either say "aye" or "nay"?

Change the "view all questions" entirely. Give us even more functionality at the price of perhapsa few more clicks - but simple ones. I would be happy with a select all questions based on a given date.

Give us a calendar (similar idea to the following, on the "read past strips" link of the Dilbert site...)

http://www.unitedmedia.com/comics/dilbert/

(remove spaces...)

That way, I could step backwards by date and your SQL will be based on a single repeating index that is "almost unique". Maybe up to 100 results returned max but most days would have less than 50. No table scan. One days worth of shared read locking. Should be quite fast.

The extra clicks for us would be that not every page will be filled to capacity as there wouldn't generally be an exact multiple of 25 questions for most days. 25 questions to a page.

But for me... I think I'd find it useful to search by date as well as by paging through.

What do others think? And will this help?

Cheers,
Tim.

by timthetoolman

...and a second suggestion...

Perhaps radio buttons to be selected before selecting the "view all open questions" link. That way, by using two radio buttons, you could allow us to sort by number of points or date. A feature that was dropped from the old system. But NOT have a default.

And web crawlers may not be smart enough to select one of the radio button options before trying and so would be presented with the please select an option message.

Cheers,
Tim.

by timthetoolman

...and Java Guru... I dont think either would take terribly long to implement...so if you just take your laptop into the delivery room... :-)

Good luck for tomorrow!
Cheers,
Tim.

by timthetoolman

Hi Java Guru,

Thats not quite what I had in mind for the date based query. I had envisioned the use of the calender would go...

Click on a date, and the the query is conceptually...

select * from QuestionTable where (QuestionDate = SelectedDate and QuestionStatus <> "Closed")

...so a small manageable query.

And you might have a special case link "View all open questions from today" where the query is identical but the date is automatically set to today's date. Alternatively clicking on today's date on the calender would yield the same results.

As far as the radio buttons goes... isnt that simply two queries?

Conceptually again.

select * from QuestionTable where QuestionStatus <> "Closed" order by QuestionDate

...and...

select * from QuestionTable where QuestionStatus <> "Closed" order by QuestionPointsValue

...so not too much work in implementing and the DB still does its optimisations!?!? ..and is immune to web crawlers...

I'm not actually convinced a timed cache will solve your problems. The load on the server will still be the same - just the data will be coming from a cache instead of straight from the DB?!?!?

I would be surprised if there were many queries of the nature you described - so people can work offline. By their very nature, they would be infrequent.

(continued...)

by timthetoolman

re: Porting the data across.... I think your current data set is extremely valuable! The fact that some answers are from "User Deleted" is a bit irrelevent. Its the question and answer that is important!

In fact, if it were me, I'd be pushing on development of a neural network to use the existing questions and answer database to provide an intelligent autoanswer facility.

A lot of work, I know. Very, very difficult... and doesn't fit in with plans for an off the shelf solution... but would you want that on your CV :-)? And it would make TR about 1000 light years ahead of anything else on the market - as opposed to the few light years its ahead now.

Dont underestimate the value of your point system. I believe it is strongly relatedto the success of your site. To start again with it would be a bit disheartening to some, I feel.

My views, anyway...
Cheers,
Tim.

ps. But of course you're not fully focussed on this at the moment... :-) so take your time on a solution. Meanwhile, maybe put the link back for us?

by timthetoolman

Hi Java Guru...

There are lots of ways to avoid table scans. Take a look at the following site for ideas on how you can optimise your queries and database.

http://www.sql-server-performance.com/

Its for SQLServer - and you probably aren't using it, but the principles described are relevent to any DB. Here is one quote for example...

"Indexes should be considered on all columns that are frequently accessed by the WHERE, ORDER BY, GROUP BY, TOP, and DISTINCT clauses. Without an index,each of these operations will require a table scan of your table, potentially hurting performance."

If you're still getting table scans, then you've almost certainly got the wrong indexes...

Cheers,
Tim.

by timthetoolman

Hi Java Guru,

Well... if you're efficiently retrieving only 25 records from the database with each query from the "View all open questions" link, then I dont see the difference between retrieving 25 questions from "all the categories" or from "one specific category". They should give very similar server loadings!

Are you sure that the query is efficient?

I'm beginning to think again that the "right-sizing" is in fact under sized, and that the server simply needs more grunt.

If you're experiencing less loading now, then chances are that its because fewer people are looking at the questions through the awkward categorised searches.

Your end of month statistics will confirm this, but remember... Its MUCH easier to keep people looking at a site than getting people to begin to look at a site.

Regarding keeping the data... Its up to you guys of course, but as I said the data is extremely valuable and it makes good business sense to utilise that data effectively to improve your site.

...but if you see it as just old data with no real value, then... what a waste. You'll lose your edge.

By moving to a package, you'll effectively be making your site just another one of the many sites out there offering IT articles and a feedback/QA forum.

I'm sure we'd all like to see TR move forward. Personally I'd like to see it as the foremost IT information point on the net. I fear it wont be if the decisions are to take the "safe, least cost/effort" path.

Food for thought.
Cheers,
Tim.

ps. Is it a boy or a girl? :-) I'm sure we'd all like to know!!

by timthetoolman

Hi Java Guru,

Could you please answer this for me?

Are the "web crawler" queries that you've been hit by up until now "open question" queries? Or "closed question" queries? Or both? Or cant you tell?

Thanks,
Tim.

by timthetoolman

Hi Java Guru and TechRepublic management,

I know web crawlers hit the defaults, but are the queries you're actually being hit with using the defaults?

The reason I ask is that there is another possibility... I specifically did a search on the web for questions from TR and found none.

I always wondered about this as during my many many searches for information on the web, I've never ever hit a TechRepublic page or even a reference to one. Never. I guess you've never registered with any search engines...

Maybe I've not tried enough search engines. I'd like to know from others whether they've also seen this?

Normally web crawlers are used to populate search engine's databases. Not for this it seems.

To put this into perspective, what do you think a question is worth? My guess is around $200 given the breadth of knowledge given to answering them all. If you were to hire someone to answer everybody's questions, you'd need to pay them at least $200/hr to get the breadth ofknowledge in the responses you get from us all!

Consequently, I'm going to up my estimate on the value of your data to around 70,000 questions x $200 = over 10 Million dollars.

Worth stealing, dont you think?

Maybe its time to check what your intellectual property rights are with your data!

Cheers,
Tim.

by shanghai sam

Hi Java Guru,

Firstly thanks very much for your efforts on returning the link. I think I can say this on behalf of everyone who has shown concern for its disappearance.

So, It should refresh every hour or so? Please dont stop in your attempts to gain a proper solution to this, though. It used to be possible to answer a question moments after it was posted.

That was HIGHLY appreciated by some question posers and earned huge amounts of browning points for TR (and maybe a subscription or two over the months :-)

As far the searches are concerned... Do you have an example of a search engine that will return references to TR QA information?

(continued...)

by timthetoolman

And finally for this question from me...

I dont know anything about the sell off of TR!? Was it an agressive takeover? Or the owners getting out?

If it was the owners getting out, then why? Or did they see the writing on the wall for the site.Unless the site pulls itself ahead of its competition, over time it will sink into relative obscurity along with all the rest.

In my opinion, whoever decided to put in the inovative points system deserves much of the credit for you site's successas it gave us answerers a chance to be able to measure our success, and more importantly strive to do better which is exactly the best thing for your site!

From increased hits comes success...

I'm not saying a package wont be good by todays standard and I'm not saying you wont implement it well including al the features we'd like to see...

What I am saying is that a package wont allow that same inovation that helped make your site a huge success in the first place.

Packages are excellent when you want a quick, well tested solution to a business problem. A great strategy for say accounting packages as there is no such thing as creative accounting ;-)

..but your site IS that software. It is the delivery mechanism for its writers. The TR writers are good, but lets face it, there are many many good writers on the net.

What could set TR apart from the others is its site! and its site's ability to more effectively deliver information to its visitors than its competitors.
I dont see how you can hope to achieve that using a package that half of them are also using...

For you, Java Guru, this represents the greatest opportunity you could hope for. Funding? Someone will invest in you if you can make them believe in you. Grab it if you still can!

Cheers,
Tim.

by timthetoolman

Hi TheChas,

Well, for a small little statement at the bottom of the QA section, it sure is an interesting one! I must admit, until you pointed it out, I never noticed it!!

"The TechRepublic Technical Q&A design and functionality are licensed from Experts Exchange?, The Knowledge Sharing Company?, www.experts-exchange.com."

Wierd, though. I know it says "The TechRepublic Technical Q&A design and functionality are licensed from Experts Exchange" but a link to what appears to be a competitors site from it?

Presumably "Experts Exchange" and TechRepublic have some pretty close ties! But I couldn't find any references to Cnet on Expert Exchange's website (with a brief-ish look)... I guess there's politics involved...

Cheers,
Tim.

by timthetoolman

Hi Maxwell,

I know I've already said this to you, but thanks again for bringing this up. It was an excellent question at a high personal point cost to ensure we all saw it.

From it, we've learned that TR will listen to us and more importantly hear what we say.

But most importantly, we've kind of worked as a team on this. Everyone banding together to make their views known.

I like seeing that on TechRepublic. Where one person's answer backs up and extends the previous answer (if its right ;-) Kind of the TR tag team!

Cheers,
Tim.

by mr. ezekial transistor

The User Deleted issue I can't point to the code that causes it but it is from a session expiring when taking too long to respond or if on initial registration it is from posting before the site's cache has had time to refresh. I would suggest increasing the session length.

by mr. ezekial transistor

More on User Deleted - Sometimes on answers it lists my Alias, sometimes my email. It is supposed to use Alias. This seems similar to User Deleted for whatever that's worth.

by debuggist

I'm the Director of the Software Engineering team for the Builder and TechRepublic sites. I'll do my best to address your concerns.

View All Open Questions Link Removal -- We did some page view analysis of this link for April. It revealed that almost 4.5% of the page views of the subsequent thread listing page came from this link. That's a low number, so it just didn't look like many of you were using that link.

It is an expensive database query, too. An unfriendly site crawler that hits this link can impact your user experience by increasing page load times.

With those two facts, it seemed to make sense to remove the link. Your interests were the source of our efforts. It appears that we did not please all of you.

"User Deleted" issue -- I acknowledge that is an annoyance. We are working to identify the cause of this and would love to resolve it ASAP. Reliably duplicating the problem has not been possible, so we have to search through a lot of code looking for hints that will help us resolve this problem.

Thanks,
Doug

by dmiles

After reviewing the post from Hoosier Daddy,it is apperent that TechRepublic has decided to remove the All Questions link,I fell this to be in the best interest of the Sponsors and not the members,that particpate in the forum.

I am not convinced that the low hit sheet comparisson was justification for the removal when it was possibly the the most noticable upgrade to the site to be added to the new format.
Maybe the sponsors feel that it was not attracting more members with the link and made the change so that now when new members use the site,navigating to other categories would increase the hit count of the weaker links.
So,now it is a roll back to the old way of using the different catogories to help solve problems.
Which is to say,less time searching for questions to answer,will only review certain catagories.

by brian

I agree that this link needs to be on the site. I don't use the site without it.

In response to hoosier daddy - 4.5% may seem like a small percentage but consider what % of the users actually ANSWER questions.

The forum lives off of both Qestions and Answers.

I have posted 2 Questions and 190 Answers. I am sure I am not alone in being an "asymetrical user".

So I would like to know how many answers per question were being posted before the changes and what the ratio is now.

For me, I will submit this answer and call it a day.

In the past, I might have answered 3-5 questions in a visit.

Great Question Maxwell.

by otl

Been off-line during the changes, I liked the all open questions link (occasionally), I do like that they finally changed the sub-links to default to only open questions.

But 4.5%, whats the hit ratio for train the trainers or linux ? I would think closer to .01% or less. They stay and all open questions go ? Of course they got rid of it within a week after I used it, kind of like the auto-close feature.

I personnally would like to see all USER DELETED gone, if not a user then cannot pose a question. Most of the ones I looked at today were asking how to pirate software or multi copy software/audio. HoosierDaddy mentioned site crawlers being a problem did not mention the program type they are using, but a time out feature would slam the crawler.

Auto-close should be 3 months of inactivity (no answers posed), this would clean-up the site. Not if there is a hit then close it, I COMPLETELY and CORRECTLY answered a question that was open for over 1 year, this prompted the user to finally close the question, I did not care for the points just the question was not hanging after a solution was found.

by nise_k

Yes Maxwell,

You r right. The link is (was) very very useful.

I had stopped visiting TechRepublic because of that missing link.

Hope it gets restored soon.

Nise

by fenaikh

View All Open Questions Link removal was not a good idea even for 4.5% of the page views of the subsequent thread listing page.As all menstioned above we need it back for fast access to new and open questions.Usually I open that link then open a newwindows from each question I would like to try to answer or learn so I open the link once but I use it alot by opening questions in new windows which may most user do wich make the access to the page seems as low as 4.5%. So it is the gate for all opened question.In the otherhand there are many questions which are in the wrong Category .example:

NetAdmin Republic: Category: Windows 95/98 has the folowing question which i belave should go to
Support Republic: Category: PC Troubleshooting

error beeps
https://www.techrepublic.com/forumqa/thread_detail.jhtml;jsessionid=CFPLK2T0RB2TEQD23WQCFFA?thread_id=91844

So i vote to get it back as soon as posible.

Good luck all

Mohamed

by nise_k

Hi (this is for Mr Doug),

As regards to your analysis of the accessing of the "View All" link.

Some users (like me) don't waste time in logging-in and then accessing resources. After chking All the Open Questions, I log in only incase there'ssomething of concern to me.

The point is that even registered users do directly use the link to find out the questions posed. And, iff found interesting, do log-in.

So, your Analysis fails here. You should have better asked us.

Nise

by java guru

Sorry, it took so long to respond, but I am out sick and my wife is due TOMORROW!!!!

I am the developer who made the changes. Here is the complete scoop. I just hope I don't get into trouble for stating the facts.

The problem:
The forums/dicussions is a home-built system. Unfortunately, the original design did not account for the tremendous amount of participation that the members have shown. We love that you love it and have tons of ideas on how to integrate it into other parts of the site. Due to this underestimation, the database is unable to keep up with high request rates. The system is not the fastest, but it is usually able to keep up with "user" requests. It is the rapid-fire request rates of crawlers that locks the forums DB. When the forums DB locks, it eventually brings down the entire site! In an effort to maintain functionality and increase the robustness of the system, we have made several changes. The forums DB was moved onto it's own machine, a robots.txt file was created to keep crawlers out, and we have instituted a software trap. This has resulted in a degree of success. Unfortuantely, unfriendly crawlers continue to hit the forums.

See next post for continuation ...

by java guru

... Continued

Unfriendly crawlers spawn multiple threads and request links at very high rates. The multiple-thread nature prevents us from identifying the requests as coming from the same system. This prevents our software trap from catching them.

Ever heard of doing more with less? How about "downsizing" or "rightsizing"? That is what the CNet operations group is doing and they have their hands full already. They do block individual IPs for us, but there are reprocussions. Everytime they have to stop what they are doing to help us, something that they have promised becomes late. Somebody makes a phone call, then somebody gets a phone call. You get the idea. We have to do something!

The long-term solution is that we are going to replace our forums/discussions with a high-performance off-the-shelf system. My hope is to replace it with Jive. It rocks, it is fast, it is flexible.

The short-term solution is to look at the individual pages in the site and attack those that place the highest demand on the DB. Let's look at the forums main page. Take a guess at what query WILL cause a table scan of the entire forums DB? Bingo. All questions regardless of category is a HOG. We have no way of knowing "how" a page is being used. We have our ideas, but no way to capture who is using functionality and why. So, worst query imaginable plus only 4.4% of the user clicks = the finger that should probably be removed in order to keep the body alive until we can get an overhaul.

I did not remove the link without trying to speed it up. It already has an index associated with it. There was not much more we could do.

I have an idea. I can put it back, but I MUST put a time cache around the data. How about if I limit it to refreshing to once per hour? Would that be enough? Could I make it longer?

Maxwell, it is your question, so you get to make the final recommendation.

by java guru

Here are some of the ideas that I am seeing:
1) Limit the functionality to members that have logged in - This will not make a difference. The crawlers are not necessarily an attack on us. They could be some user in eastern europe who has to pay for every second of his/her connection and is trying to pull all of the data quickly to read it offline. The crawler is actually logged on. Bummer. The person is not trying to be malicious, but the end result is the same.

2) Build a calendar - calendars are good for archive/past events/items. This would be OK for a list of questions from yesterday, last week, etc. The problem with that is the "past". What about today. This would still involve running the expensive query. We would be back to square-1.

3) Add radio buttons - this is what gots us into trouble on the Tech Q&A category browse page. There used to be one query, but it had so much built-in flexibility. This flexibility prevents the DB from performing optimizations. Web crawlers do not select radio buttons, but the query still has to support the functionality so users can select it. Now, if you leave the radio buttons in the "default" setting, there is a special optimized query that is utilized instead.

Itsounds like the "best" solution is to put the link back with a time cache around the result page. This will be pretty quick for me to do. It just depends on the QA/deploy process and my wife ....

by java guru

I am in the process of trying to work with the business drivers to build a list of requirements for the new Forums/Discussions (go Jive!). Perhaps a few "passionate" users (oops, forgot that I am supposed to call you "members") could get in touch with Veronica (?) to let her know what you like and don't like.

Please understand that some things are great to have, but "expensive" to build/run. We will make every effort to keep you guys/gals happy.

BTW the "User Deleted" problem is a pain in the @ss. It may not go away until we get the new system running. There has been talk of changing the verbage, but the end-result is the same.

Can you guys/gals do me a BIG favor?!?! I am going to make the pitch that we do not "port" the existing forum/discussion data into the new system.

My reasons are as follows:

1) Some of the data is corrupt ("user deleted") and can never recovered.

2) Trying to map this into a system that is not designed to handle dirty data is going to require more work and delay the new software system.

3) My guess is that anything over 2 weeks old is probably useless anyway (but what do I know, I am the guy who thought nobody used the all questions link - LOL).

I would prefer to implement the new system and leave a link to the old system in the navigation area. The old data would also still be available via the search.

What do you think? Perhaps I need to give myself a 300K points and offer them as a question (bribe) to everybody who agrees with me. Who wants to pass "maxwell edison"? Maybe not, I don't think management will share my sense of humor. ;~)

by java guru

TimTheToolMan - I misspoke when I said table scans. There are indexes around the tables and the are being utilized.

*********
*********

I have completed the changes for the ALL open questions (all categories) link. It will have a 1-hr cache around it. It will also restrict itself to the last 30 days. Hopefully it will come out on Thursday. Let me know what you guys think. Is the time too long? Is the time frame too small?you guys like it, I will

by java guru

Let's clarify what I think will happen if the "old" data is not put in the forums.

The "old" data will remain just the way it is. It would be accessible via a link (like the old builder is accessible via the new builder) and via the search. Thepoints you have earned would continue to the new system (I will come up with a way to keep them going). The difference is that the new system would not be primed with the original data. It would start new. In essence we would have two systems forapprox 90 days (or until the original system had no appreciable amount of clicks).

Does this change your opinion?

by java guru

The crawlers were hitting the defaults. Since I changed the defaults, they will now hit the "open" questions. This should be less data.

by java guru

HOW COME YOU DO NOT SEE "TR" FORUMS ON THE WEB?

In an attempt to keep crawlers out of the forums, we added a robots exclusionary file (robots.txt). Hopefully, once we get over to a new/faster system (Jive?), we can remove this file and get your answers spread across the web.

TimTheToolMan - never fear. Just because we are going to a package doesn't mean it won't be special. We are looking at http://www.jivesoftware.com. If we go with this product, it will end up being fairly customized. The benefit will be improved performance and management. It will still have points, etc.

by vinnyd

I used that link all the time.

This was a bad idea.

It's like the new coke!

Now that I can not find the questions I can answer, I guess I will just stop answering them.

by kees.valkenswaard

Well, that is a lot of comment!
I have been away for some time. So I saw the change only today.
The view all open questions is a good thing. I normally use it, as it showed me the new hot items. Thus, at least I would prefer to see all open questions submitted the last, let say two or four weeks.
Occasionally I look at older questions. However, answering these usually is not very rewarding as the submitter probably forgot the whole question. At least I normally don?t get a notification that anything happened with my answer if the question was listed longer than about 2 to 3 weeks ago.
From all these comments I have learned a lot about time-outs. Actually mostly I prepare my answers in Word and submit with copy and paste. Having typed alot just for nothing is no fun.
If I am looking if somebody had a similar question I use the search facility. But also there everything is limited by the unlucky idea of many people that free text search of natural language will solve our problems.
The general solution has to be found in some thesaurus like approach. It is a general problem on the Web. Many links to texts containing a given word. No answers to genuine questions!

by maxwell edison

To TechRepublic Java Guru,

Thanks so much for responding to my question. I would email you directly (and I still might), but since so many members have taken the time to get involved in this issue I thought I’d continue to post it in thispublic forum to keep all interested parties involved. As you can see, there is almost 100 percent support (from members posting replies to this question) for the return of the “missing link”. I do appreciate the fact that you went into such detail explaining your thought process for removing the link, and I further appreciate that you indicated you would leave the final recommendation to me. However, since I am not a Web expert, I must yield to those more knowledgeable and experienced than I.

So there you have it, Web experts. Use this as an opportunity to post your suggestions. The problem has been explained. What would you do to fix it?

At this point I must compliment the TechRepublic staff for their prompt and professional response, and praise their efforts for building and maintaining a site that is, in my opinion, second to none. I am, at times, in awe of the knowledge and expertise displayed here, both by the ones who built and maintain the site as well as those who use it.

And Java Guru, one last thing, I hope you have a speedy recovery from your illness, and congratulations on the impending birth of your child.

Maxwell

by penguinsrule

This wasn't the only thing they changed for the worse - I used to be able to sort by points more easily, I used to be able to know in each category which ones were answered/unanswered. All kinds of things - they changed a lot across the board - little things that makes the site harder to navigate.

They must be preparing it for whatever program is coming...

You know that there will be point inflation of some degree - by the time your points are worth anything, it'll take more and more of them to actually get something, and then at that they'll make it harder to get. Kinda like using your services for free, right? So, won't they be making money of of you? Aren't we the product that they'll be marketing? They have to make money somehow? right?

by nikki96

I also don't use the page nearly as much without that link. I am pretty new, but I liked that link right away.

If the issue is crawlers and spiders, why don't you not allow the page to be indexed?

In order for a robot to either stop indexing your site, or for you to restrict a robot to index certain areas on your website you need to use a robots.txt file according to the RES (Robots Exclusion Standard).
You also need to use a meta tag. Add the "noindex" meta tag to your documents you don't want the crawlers to index.

Just a thought.
Nikki

by nikki96

Oh, and about the "User Deleted" issue - somehow, you guys kept track of what questions I answered before I was actually able to be listed (that is, I showed up User Deleted). Why not have a cron job (or scheduled task, depending on your OS) to go back and change the info when the user id is ready to be used? Since I don't know your setup, I can't say how easy this would be for you to do, but on my Unix system running Apache web server and an Oracle database, this would be simple as pie. Then again, you may not have the computer resources to do something like this, as it woul dbe a bit resource intensive. Perhaps run it once a week on a Sunday at 3 in the morning? :)
Just another thought.
Nikki

by bughunter

I'm not a bit surprised about the poor customer support/response. I had a problem with changing my account info several months ago and it was never addressed or corrected. I sent e-mails to their "contact us" link several times and all I got was acanned e-mail response. I finally quit trying to fix the problem. Now I use the site for research and general info. I think these issues are just another example of technology driving people instead of people driving technology. It seems to me that TechRepublic is focusing on making things easier for the people with questions without regard to the answer process. If people with questions stop getting answers then they will stop using this site and TechRepublic's revenues will decrease.

by maxwell edison

It looks like TimTheToolMan has picked up the lead in making the suggestions and imagining ways to implement them. I think it's great that he (and others) have remained involved by posting additional comments. I was hoping for more specific Web design suggestions from more people, but it appears to be moving along nicely as it is. As for me, I'm reading them all with much interest. But as far as the "how to do it", the procedures and methods are way over my head. But I'm glad to leave it up to the experts. But whatever you do, I'm confident it will be for the best for all involved. Thanks for the efforts.

Maxwell

by lizzy

Hi Maxwell,
I just got back on line after a triple power surge corrupted my Win2K registry, and me without any ERD's!! I just re-imaged and thought I must have done something wrong and then I saw your question. This hopefully won't take as long to fix as the Q&A stats link to your own stats. That took weeks and weeks before it would show you any of your own data... Oh well, maybe TR is testing us to see if we notice the changes! Talk to you later!

by lizzy

I confess to not reading all of the comments and answers yesterday, but I did get around to it today. To the TR developers and programmers I say: 4.5% may be a low number of "hits" for that link, but I -always- used that link! Please don't do awaywith it. Many users that are new to this site seem to post in different categories than what their questions pertain to. Also, by reading all questions or all open questions, users like me can learn more about categories we wouldn't normally look at when time is short and work is busy. I think the View All Questions link was the best feature in this site. Just my opinion. Maxwell--great question. To the rest of you that post here frequently, please hang in there. I would miss seeing all of you and your answers here. Hopefully TR will put the link back and you won't have to leave...

by lizzy

Whoo Hoo!! It's back!! Thanks, Maxwell, for bringing attention to this issue. To TR, thanks for bringing back the link. This site is great!

by dmiles

Good Morning Maxwell
This is to thank you for bringing up the post to point out the missing link,now that it has returned,I can see how it helps in surfing through the different catagories.
It is less cumbersome to click on one link,than it has been been to view each individual category in the past week.Thanks again and have a nice day.

by dmiles

Maxwell
Reviewed the updated comments and find that members have voiced quite an approval to the site being back with the All Questions link

As far as the Web comments to be made,I have not interfered in the suggestions being made since I have very little knowledge about the inner design concept of operations and the internal threading of Web Design,so I leave this up to the more expierenced.
Thanks again for bringing up the topic and making the post,and it also goes to those that have been helpful in giving suggestions Tim the Tool Man especially and all tecfhrepublic members who sounded off
Thanks and Congradulations to Java Guru for his quick responce and the new baby.
So who da man? Maxwell Edison

by jereg

As always, Maxwell, a very good point. I wasn't happy with the change, and nothing has happened to change my opinion. I've sent emails to the webmaster, but any fixes I've seen don't last long. What kind of programming is that? I have been listed as user deleted on my own question, I have no stats available. They fixed that, but it only lasted a week. While many things are minor, it seems as if there are corrupt files somewhere and they keep growing. I still like the site better than others, but I'm spending less time here than I did in the past.

by jereg

Just a thought, with so many people seeming to prefer the "old" look and feel, is there any thought to just bringing that back? Was it really too much to mange?

by maxwell edison

HIP-HIP HURRAY! The link is back!

Thanks to all who posted replies to this (and the other) question. All of the comments, emails and interest all contributed to the return of the link. I’m sure that I’m safe in assuming that had I posted my concern and nobody joined in, that the results would have been different. So thanks to everybody who contributed.

Thanks to TechRepublic’s Java Guru for your dialogue and fine efforts. And we can’t forget TechRepublic’s HoosierDaddy who jumped in at the beginning to show that they were indeed listening.

To the Chas: Thanks for all the additional comments you kept posting. It showed that all-important continuing interest. And I will indeed leave this question open for a few days for additional thoughts and comments.

I’m accepting all answers posted from 1 thru 27. All of them deserve some credit for their contribution. And just for grins, I’m doubling the amount of points. (I’ll skip Java Guru and HoosierDaddy so more points can be distributed to the members. They can always give themselves more points anyway.) And Java Guru, the “reject” is not really a reject. What I think about your fine efforts is this: “You ‘da man!” And again, congratulations on the birth of your new child.

I do think, however, that TimTheToolMan should be singled out for a special note of thanks. He took the lead in making suggestions and continuing the “technical” dialogue with Java Guru. Tim, you too are ‘da man. (That’s a little American lingo, there, meaning you’re awesome.)

Maxwell

by maxwell edison

Tim,

In reference to your question on the Cnet buyout, it took place about a year ago. I looked up some articles that were released, both here on TechRepublic and in some financial pages. Here are links to a couple:

https://www.techrepublic.com/article.jhtml?id=r00120010409bob01.htm&src=search

(It’s interesting to read the discussion related to that article as well.)

http://www.internetnews.com/bus-news/article/0,,3_737801,00.html

(REMOVE SPACES from the pasted URLs.)

A little history (as I know it):

Tom Cottingham founded TechRepublic in 1997. (A co-founder was Kim Spalding.) Prior to that both had been involved in the Cobb Group, which produced technical newsletters. I subscribed to many of those newsletters including Inside AutoCAD, Inside Office, etc. They remained involved after Ziff-Davis bought out Cobb (sometime in the early-mid 90’s). Cnet later bought out Ziff-Davis, sometime around 1999. That was a rather strange set of circumstances because Ziff Davis created a spin-off company called ZDNet, then Cnet bought the whole deal (I think).

(continued..)

by maxwell edison

Gartner bought the majority of TechRepublic in March 2000 for $80 million. Gartner then turned around and sold it to Cnet in 2001 for 23 million. Go figure. I’m sure there were some corporate “behind the scenes” reasons for all this, but I have no idea what they might be. (I guess that’s why I’m not a big corporate CEO.)

But consider this: Cnet (stock symbol: CNET) reports a “book value” of around 500 million ($3.70 per share), but they report earnings (EBITDA) as losing 1.15 billion. (That’s Billion with a B) The Gartner Group (stock symbol: IT), on the other hand, reports a “book value” of around NEGATIVE 12 million (-$0.15 per share), and earnings (EBITDA) of around 87 million. So the Gartner group is making mony by selling assets for less than it paid for them, while Cnet is losing money by acquiring assets at bargin prices! (Note: These are very general numbers, and may not be accurate.)

I have to wonder, what’s the connection between (the old) Ziff Davis and Gartner? Is there more corporate “wheeling and dealing” in the future? You can bet your sweet bippie there probably will be. So who has what long term plan, and why? And what fallout will result? I’ve got a headache just thinking about it.

But at least I have my link back.

Maxwell

by mslizny

Thank you Maxwell Edison, for getting this going and for all who made it possible to get the "All Open Questions" link back